NL Central & NL Wildcard Scoreboard Watching, Part III

[The Voice of IH]

meat of the order up for St.Louis

[The Voice of IH]

2-0 MIL

[Homer Bailey]

Randy Winn just took Timmy deep.

[VR]

CDick helping the Reds....his grounder makes it 3-0 Brew Crew.

[VR]

Randy Winn just took Timmy deep.

Never been a Randy Winn fan, and it's gettin worse.

[Brutus]

Blind squirrel, meet your acorn.

[VR]

"Korea" finally gets the last out in the 3rd....up to 74 pitches and trailing 3-0.

[Brutus]

Kyle Kendrick is having an unpleasant experience tonight against Washington. 5-0 and the Nats have a couple of runners on once again in the 4th with nobody gone.

[CTA513]

Wouldn't have imagined the Giants would have done much this year with Sandoval crashing to earth like he has.


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g205/CTA513/pablofall.gif


I left as a link since it takes a while to load.

[Brutus]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g205/CTA513/pablofall.gif


I left as a link since it takes a while to load.

That's hilarious!

[Chip R]

Feliz just hit a double with Molina on 1st and an error by the LFer allowed him to score with Feliz going to 3rd. 2-0 Cards.

[The Voice of IH]

yuck

[Homer Bailey]

3-0.

[Tornon]

Brendan Ryan, Randy Winn, & Pedro Feliz teeing off on Lincecum

[Brutus]

San Diego has scored twice and have runners at 2nd & 3rd, no outs. 3-2 now, Milwaukee.

[OnBaseMachine]

Lincecum has been bad lately. I would much rather face him than Matt Cain right now. The Cardinals lucked out missing Cain.

[VR]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g205/CTA513/pablofall.gif


I left as a link since it takes a while to load.

just spectacular, wow.

[Tornon]

Chris Carpenter & Tony LaRussa complaining about balls & strikes

[VR]

Chris Carpenter & Tony LaRussa complaining about balls & strikes

'you're effing me' is what Carpenter said.

[Screwball]

'you're effing me' is what Carpenter said.

Didn't Votto get tossed his last time for saying and doing almost exactly the same thing?

[Tornon]

CDick helping the Reds....his grounder makes it 3-0 Brew Crew.

While Dickerson helped the Reds, Denorfia hurt them and doubled in 2, its 3-3 now with the bases loaded for the Padres and 1 out in the 4th

[VR]

Didn't Votto get tossed his last time for saying and doing almost exactly the same thing?

Carpenter walked away and said it 'under his breath'

[VR]

Consecutive force outs at home in Milwaukee...2 outs and sacks still full with Gonzalez up.

and gonzo strikes out to end the threat....

[Screwball]

Carpenter walked away and said it 'under his breath'

Ah, first rate complaining then, Priss. Well done.

[CTA513]

Injury delay and then Strasburg left the game according to gameday.

[RedsManRick]

Injury delay and then Strasburg left the game according to gameday.

Jayson Stark tweeted that he "threw a pitch and shook his elbow in agony".

[Brutus]

Jayson Stark tweeted that he "threw a pitch and shook his elbow in agony".

While it could be sensationalism, that doesn't sound good.

[VR]

Ah, first rate complaining then, Priss. Well done.

Win the right way, lose the right way, whine the right way.

[Tornon]

I wonder how many of us Reds fans influenced that text poll

[Cyclone792]

Cardinals now lead 4-0, and Lincecum is done. The Giants just aren't playing well tonight thus far. Hopefully Zito is on his game tomorrow.

The Reds need to answer by getting another win tonight.

[VR]

Oh yeah....that injury to Strasburg does NOT look good. Tommy John, paging Tommy John.

[OnBaseMachine]

Strasburg was scheduled to pitch against the Cardinals on Thursday. It appears the Cardinals will luck out again.

[OnBaseMachine]

I just read this on twitter:

Mike Krukow (Giants TV) ripping Cardinals players for whining about tonight's strike zone. Says "it is a reflection of the manager". Yup.

http://twitter.com/TaylorThirlwell

[Tornon]

Strasburg was scheduled to pitch against the Cardinals on Thursday. It appears the Cardinals will luck out again.

Well I imagine he'd be replaced in the rotation by Jordan Zimmermann.. he looked pretty good last year so hopefully the Cards can still lose

[VR]

LaRussa just got his payback from the umps on the Burrell K.

Well played Tony.

[Homer Bailey]

Foot inside and called strike 3 on Burrell. Insane.

[BCubb2003]

Giants announcer is pretty funny with his anti-Cardinals comments.

[NDRed]

Jayson Stark tweeted that he "threw a pitch and shook his elbow in agony".

ESPN is saying it is a wrist injury. Front page.

[Homer Bailey]

Pedro Feliz with 2 big hits tonight.... unreal.

[edabbs44]

Pedro Feliz with 2 big hits tonight.... unreal.

The rise of Feliz is/was a lock.

[Brutus]

ESPN is saying it is a wrist injury. Front page.

That's an AP story that's being used on that report. It's being circulated among all the sites.

That said, most people that saw the injury seem to be saying it looked like an elbow injury. I didn't see it, so I have no idea which is correct.

[Brutus]

While the Cardinals have won tonight, the good news is that the Giants and Braves have lost, the Phillies are about to lose and the Padres are in line to lose (down 6-3 in the 7th).

[VR]

Stairs dinger.....6-5 Brewers now.

[HeatherC1212]

That's an AP story that's being used on that report. It's being circulated among all the sites.

That said, most people that saw the injury seem to be saying it looked like an elbow injury. I didn't see it, so I have no idea which is correct.

Baseball Tonight suspects an elbow injury from seeing the coverage of him on the mound. I can see that because he sure seems like he's trying to shake off something with his elbow. I hate the hype that's surrounded this kid because it's been WAY overdone all year but I do hope he's all right. I don't like to see guys suffer injuries. :(

Nats just beat Philly BTW.

[Tornon]

That's an AP story that's being used on that report. It's being circulated among all the sites.

That said, most people that saw the injury seem to be saying it looked like an elbow injury. I didn't see it, so I have no idea which is correct.

He grimaced and shook his arm.. it could have been elbow, it could have been wrist. He did seem to look at his elbow though

[Brutus]

He grimaced and shook his arm.. it could have been elbow, it could have been wrist. He did seem to look at his elbow though

I gathered, just seeing the reports, that after shaking his arm he was embracing his wrist because of the pain being sent through his forearm. That would probably be an indication of an elbow injury but I could see how any observer would think, from a distance, it was a wrist injury.

[HeatherC1212]

Not that it's related to the NL scoreboard watching but the White Sox & Royals are tied at 5-5 in the ELEVENTH inning of their game right now.....and they have to play another game right after this one because of a rain out last night. YIKES. That's brutal. I hope the extra innings don't go too long! :eek:

[Brutus]

Preliminary diagnosis of Strasburg: strained right tendon in his forearm. However, he is scheduled for an MRI, so it's not yet certain as to the issue.

[Chip R]

I have to think this is going to delay his induction into the Hall of Fame.

[guttle11]

I blame Dusty.

[Tornon]

Not that it's related to the NL scoreboard watching but the White Sox & Royals are tied at 5-5 in the ELEVENTH inning of their game right now.....and they have to play another game right after this one because of a rain out last night. YIKES. That's brutal. I hope the extra innings don't go too long! :eek:

They finished that game in 11 innings, and then the second game went 10 innings and went past 1 am central time. I can't imagine what that stadium in KC must have looked like fans-wise at the end

[RedsManRick]

They finished that game in 11 innings, and then the second game went 10 innings and went past 1 am central time. I can't imagine what that stadium in KC must have looked like fans-wise at the end

I was a fan at a similar double header like 10 years ago -- Twins/A's. Both games went in to extras. We were at the park from 11:30am to midnight.

[Brutus]

The Phillies lead the Strasburg-less Nationals 2-0 in the 4th today.

The mean old Cardinals have taken a 1-0 lead in the 3rd on a Pujols single to left over the Giants.

The Cubbies & Braves are tied 1-1.

The Padres lead 2-0.

[vaticanplum]

I was a fan at a similar DH like 10 years -- Twins/A's. Both games went in to extras. We were at the park from 11:30am to midnight.

That sounds like a little piece of heaven.

[Tornon]

Cards are lighting up Zito to the tune of 5-0

[membengal]

Thanks for nothing, Barry Zito.

[vaticanplum]

Was just looking at the schedule for September (because I'm going to GABP, hooray!) and maybe this has been covered, but there's a stretch there that's pretty brutal. All I've heard about is how easy the Reds have it at the end of the season, but competition quality notwithstanding, they don't have a day off between the 3rd and the 22nd, with an annoying four-game stretch in Colorado stuck in between stints in St. Louis and Cincinnati. Then, right after that one day off, they go from Milwaukee to San Diego for a whopping three games.

This is quite tough at the end of the season when there's a chance they'll still be playing in hot weather. Count me unsettled.

[oregonred]

Scratching out a series win on the Coast against a really tough pitcher like Kershaw after an offensive beat down the night before is exactly what the Doctor ordered to keep things rolling along at 20-over.

Need to figure out a way to do the same for at least one more win in SF and then call it a tremendously successful trip of death. 1 win in SF and I am actually happy, 2 wins would make me ecstatic as that might essentially bury the Giants as a WC threat to the Reds.

With back-back debacles in St Louis the last two games. the Giants know that these three games are vital as they slip behind Philly in the WC as their division chances are all but gone. The Reds will have to earn everything they get over the next three days.

[PuffyPig]

Was just looking at the schedule for September (because I'm going to GABP, hooray!) and maybe this has been covered, but there's a stretch there that's pretty brutal. All I've heard about is how easy the Reds have it at the end of the season, but competition quality notwithstanding, they don't have a day off between the 3rd and the 22nd, with an annoying four-game stretch in Colorado stuck in between stints in St. Louis and Cincinnati. Then, right after that one day off, they go from Milwaukee to San Diego for a whopping three games.

This is quite tough at the end of the season when there's a chance they'll still be playing in hot weather. Count me unsettled.

19 of our last 22 games are against very poor teams.

The Cards have, I think, one more day off.

[Cyclone792]

Scratching out a series win on the Coast against a really tough pitcher like Kershaw after an offensive beat down the night before is exactly what the Doctor ordered to keep things rolling along at 20-over.

Need to figure out a way to do the same for at least one more win in SF and then call it a tremendously successful trip of death. 1 win in SF and I am actually happy, 2 wins would make me ecstatic as that might essentially bury the Giants as a WC threat to the Reds.

With back-back debacles in St Louis the last two games. the Giants know that these three games are vital as they slip behind Philly in the WC as their division chances are all but gone. The Reds will have to earn everything they get over the next three days.

These next three games are going to be extremely tough. The Giants have had a rough schedule recently, and they've gotten knocked around. They've watched the Padres run off a bit with the division, and they've watched the Phillies run off a bit with the wildcard. They'll be fighting for their lives to pull out wins before falling too far back, and I expect the Reds to be in a dog fight each of the three games.

I'm hoping for two of three, but I would grudgingly be mildly content with just one. The Reds just have to make absolute certain to win at least one game and not get swept.

[Joseph]

These next three games are going to be extremely tough. The Giants have had a rough schedule recently, and they've gotten knocked around. They've watched the Padres run off a bit with the division, and they've watched the Phillies run off a bit with the wildcard. They'll be fighting for their lives to pull out wins before falling too far back, and I expect the Reds to be in a dog fight each of the three games.

I'm hoping for two of three, but I would grudgingly be mildly content with just one. The Reds just have to make absolute certain to win at least one game and not get swept.

I think you are spot on. Time is growing near for them to go all in with everything and we might just be the recipient.

As you said, 2 of 3 would be awesome, but if you'd have told me we'd go 6-3 on this trip before it started I'd have asked where I needed to sign up for that, so I can live with 1 of 3.

[Captain Hook]

These next three games are going to be extremely tough. The Giants have had a rough schedule recently, and they've gotten knocked around. They've watched the Padres run off a bit with the division, and they've watched the Phillies run off a bit with the wildcard. They'll be fighting for their lives to pull out wins before falling too far back, and I expect the Reds to be in a dog fight each of the three games.

I'm hoping for two of three, but I would grudgingly be mildly content with just one. The Reds just have to make absolute certain to win at least one game and not get swept.

Your basically saying that a winning Aug. west coast road trip in the middle of a pennant race isn't good enough.I have to agree though.Sweeping Arizona and getting 2/3 from L.A. changes things.I'm hoping for 2/3 against S.F. and feeling 1 win is a must, although I'm much happier that the 1 win would represent the 6th win of this trip instead of the 3rd or 4th and won't jump of a cliff if it doesn't happen.We'd still be in 1st place after all.

[Ron Madden]

The series in San Francisco should be a three day battle with both clubs fighting tooth and nail. This is what Baseball going down the stretch is all about. I'd love for the Reds to win two games this series because I'm greedy.

[PuffyPig]

After the Cards Series Debacle, we all just hoped that when we came back from the west cost trip we'd be within spittin' distance of the Cards, so we would have some chance down the stretch.

That will clearly be the case.

I don't think we can now be satisfied with just a winning road trip, as we are currently 5-1.

The Giants aren't playing all that well right now, so we should be hoping for a 2-1 finish to our trip. it will be tough, but we seem to be winning most of our series, so why hope for less now.

If we get swept, we get swept. We will still be in first regardless, and that's even if the Cards win all 3 while we are losing.

The Cards are at the beginning of a 17 in 20 game raod trip.

Let's see if they can duplicate our road success, something they haven't been able to do this year yet.

[Homer Bailey]

Reds haven't won on ESPN yet this year.... Tonight would be a nice time to change that.

[MattyHo4Life]

Now that a game has been scheduled for 9/20, the Cards only have one day off for the rest of the season. It will be a long stretch for the Cards with a lot of road games coming up.

Yesterday was the first time in awhile that Garcia pitched without extra rest, and he had his best game of the year. He needs to keep that up, because there won't be much of a chance to rest him for the rest of the year.

[Caveat Emperor]

Now that a game has been scheduled for 9/20, the Cards only have one day off for the rest of the season. It will be a long stretch for the Cards with a lot of road games coming up.

Yesterday was the first time in awhile that Garcia pitched without extra rest, and he had his best game of the year. He needs to keep that up, because there won't be much of a chance to rest him for the rest of the year.

The real concern for the Cardinals, right now, should probably be their bullpen. That's an awful lot of days to go with no breaks, especially the way LaRussa likes to play chess. The expanding roster will help, but the key guys are still going to be logging a lot of consecutive outings and be up and throwing on a lot of days.

[Chip R]

Now that a game has been scheduled for 9/20, the Cards only have one day off for the rest of the season.


Is that the makeup game with the Marlins?

[medford]

The real concern for the Cardinals, right now, should probably be their bullpen. That's an awful lot of days to go with no breaks, especially the way LaRussa likes to play chess. The expanding roster will help, but the key guys are still going to be logging a lot of consecutive outings and be up and throwing on a lot of days.

Do the Cards have anything in AAA that could spell real relief for September? I don't mean a pitcher to throw some meaningless innings in a blowout, but guys that can really help take some bullpen innings in situations where the game hasn't been decided or offer key pinch hitting opportunities or days to spell starters?

I don't know the Cards system to know well enough, but IIRC they're not very deep. Seems like the Reds gain a bigger advantage in September by being able to call up Franscisco, Yonder, Frasier, Chapman, Del Resario, Fisher, Harang, O-Cab, etc... Guys who have all played significant roles already this season, or guys that many think have bright futures in the majors sooner rather than later and can help in certain situations during the stretch drive.

Even bigger than that, IMHO, is that with only 1 more off day, unless they go on short rest, the Cards won't be able to skip over their 5th starter but once the rest of the season. None of the starters will be able to pick up an extra day of rest here and there either like one does when you keep the rotation in tact following an offday. All that could add up to a very tiring September and no much left in the tank heading into the final weekend.

[vaticanplum]

I feel like the Cards trend toward late-season momentum on the whole, the opposite of the way the Red Sox historically eat it at the end of the season. Is this actually true or am I just looking for another way to prepare for disappointment?

[vaticanplum]

Of note and possibly damaging: the Cards' one remaining day off falls before a home series with the Reds.

(It's a defense mechanism, people.)

[Tornon]

I feel like the Cards trend toward late-season momentum on the whole, the opposite of the way the Red Sox historically eat it at the end of the season. Is this actually true or am I just looking for another way to prepare for disappointment?

I don't know, 2006 really sticks out in my mind where the cards nearly let a 7 game or so lead collapse over the last 2 weeks of the year leaving the Reds to finally be eliminated that last weekend of the season

[Kc61]

Now that a game has been scheduled for 9/20, the Cards only have one day off for the rest of the season. It will be a long stretch for the Cards with a lot of road games coming up.

Yesterday was the first time in awhile that Garcia pitched without extra rest, and he had his best game of the year. He needs to keep that up, because there won't be much of a chance to rest him for the rest of the year.

Cards have played the fewest games in the division, three fewer than the Reds. They have had the opportunity to skip the weak spots in the rotation due to all their off days.

Now they have to make up for this by playing every day. The issue for them is whether their pitching will hold up. Lohse will have to pitch every turn. The bullpen will be used more heavily.

Of course, they get the reprieve of September 1, so they can add pitchers and undoubtedly will.

[Cyclone792]

Now that a game has been scheduled for 9/20, the Cards only have one day off for the rest of the season. It will be a long stretch for the Cards with a lot of road games coming up.

Is this official now? I've yet to see anything on this, but I could have also missed this somewhere.

[nemesis]

That's what scares me. The Brewers are a much tougher team than the Pirates. I could easily see the Cards go 9-0 / 8-1 against Pittsburgh while the Reds go 6-3 / 5-4 against Milwaukee. That really makes the 3 game series against St. Louis a tie breaker in effect.

[HeatherC1212]

Of note and possibly damaging: the Cards' one remaining day off falls before a home series with the Reds.

(It's a defense mechanism, people.)

FYI: The Reds have that same off day. This is just my opinion and all but you may need to relax a little bit and brace yourself for these last few weeks, LOL ;)

[Caveat Emperor]

That's what scares me. The Brewers are a much tougher team than the Pirates. I could easily see the Cards go 9-0 / 8-1 against Pittsburgh while the Reds go 6-3 / 5-4 against Milwaukee. That really makes the 3 game series against St. Louis a tie breaker in effect.

Yeah, that worries me too. The Brewers can at least light the scoreboard up (to go along with their awful pitching) -- whereas the Pirates do absolutely nothing well.

[Chip R]

Yeah, that worries me too. The Brewers can at least light the scoreboard up (to go along with their awful pitching) -- whereas the Pirates do absolutely nothing well.


Except lose.

[membengal]

The Pirates are, at least, finally committing to playing some kids. So, maybe, facing a chance to play a spoiler, Pedro Alvarez and McCutcheon and Walker and a few others will be engaged and rise to meet the moment. Not saying they will win a bunch, but that the Pirates in September with the current crew may not be a bunch that will allow itself to be rolled over. At least at home.

Lohse tonite. That's a good test of whether Pittsburgh will be putting in a good effort against StL.

[MattyHo4Life]

The Pirates are, at least, finally committing to playing some kids. So, maybe, facing a chance to play a spoiler, Pedro Alvarez and McCutcheon and Walker and a few others will be engaged and rise to meet the moment. Not saying they will win a bunch, but that the Pirates in September with the current crew may not be a bunch that will allow itself to be rolled over. At least at home.

Lohse tonite. That's a good test of whether Pittsburgh will be putting in a good effort against StL.

This game tonight should give a lot of insight into how the Cards could play for the rest of the season. Lohse is our #5 starter, so he will get a lot of starts. If he has a bad game, then it will be bad news for the Cards. Like someone said earlier, the Cards won't have the luxury of skipping starts anymore. So the #4 and #5 guys have to come through.

[MattyHo4Life]

FYI: The Reds have that same off day. This is just my opinion and all but you may need to relax a little bit and brace yourself for these last few weeks, LOL ;)

Exactly Heather, there is still a lot of season left. A lot of people here seem to be negative and bracing for disaster. If it makes you feel any better, the feeling is same on the Cardinals boards. lol

[vaticanplum]

Exactly Heather, there is still a lot of season left. A lot of people here seem to be negative and bracing for disaster. If it makes you feel any better, the feeling is same on the Cardinals boards. lol

It's sheer conditioning. I've watched the Reds play poorly for so long that my desire for their reaching the playoffs has increased at the same time that my expectations for that actually happening have plummeted. The closer they get, the more we brace for disaster to protect ourselves.

There seems to be a harsh attitude toward any feeling perceived as negative on this board. Not everybody experiences the same event in the same way. It doesn't mean that I need to relax or that this isn't fun for me. Believe me, the fact that I am mulling over every negative possibility is only a sign that I'm getting more and more sucked into playoff fever and am enjoying it more and more.

Of course, I also sit in my black-walled house and listen to Morrissey all day and night, obviously. :)

[medford]

Exactly Heather, there is still a lot of season left. A lot of people here seem to be negative and bracing for disaster. If it makes you feel any better, the feeling is same on the Cardinals boards. lol

I've noticed the same thing for most of the season. Seems every other day there's someone tripping over themselves to find a reason why the Reds are doomed to fall, or why a recent loss or 2 spells a certain continued streak of losses going forward. I understand cautious optimism, heck I embrace it, but it just feels like sports would be a heck of a lot less fun to follow if you didn't allow yourself to lean out ahead of your skis a bit. Sure the fall back to reality stings for a bit, but every once in a while, the ride presents a beautiful memory.

1990 was a beautiful ride; a decade(ish) later in '99 was another beautiful ride, despite heading dead into a tree in the 1 game playoff (or whatever you call it). Flash forward another decade, and we're seeing the same beautiful ride. Sure that may be a tree ahead waiting for us fans in the playoffs or perhaps even a 3 game set in St Louis, but I see no reason why fans shouldn't be more optomistic and take more joy out of this team than they seem to be doing. The beauty of baseball is that its always there. Starting in spring, and ending in the fall, there's a ride to follow every day; a storyline to provide entertainment. 40 games to go, and I see no reason to be looking for the next fall, but rather reasons to believe that the ascent hill is going to keep on climbing.

[LincolnparkRed]

Reds haven't won on ESPN yet this year.... Tonight would be a nice time to change that.

The July 7th win against the Mets was on ESPN right? Morgan, Valentine and "You're with me Leather" (Berman)

[Homer Bailey]

The July 7th win against the Mets was on ESPN right? Morgan, Valentine and "You're with me Leather" (Berman)

Ah you got me. All I was remembering where the 3 games against Carp, and the 1 against Strasburg.

[CTA513]

Cardinals up 3-0 with 0 outs in the 1st inning.

[Tornon]

I didn't realize Ross Ohlendorf actually had an ERA under 4.00.. i had just assumed he was one of those 6.00+ ERA pitchers. Something happened to him to take him out of the game before Pujols hit though, he must have gotten injured somehow

[oneupper]

Cardinals up 3-0 with 0 outs in the 1st inning.

To make it worse: it was a three run jack by Pujols. :angry:
Can you say triple crown?

[Tornon]

4-0 on a Molina single.. still no outs

[_Sir_Charles_]

Of course, I also sit in my black-walled house and listen to Morrissey all day and night, obviously. :)

Seriously laughed out loud HARD at that one. hehehe. :D

[kaldaniels]

To make it worse: it was a three run jack by Pujols. :angry:
Can you say triple crown?

Could Pujols win the triple crown, yet Votto have a stat-wise argument for MVP? Just throwing out a theorhetical.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Could Pujols win the triple crown, yet Votto have a stat-wise argument for MVP? Just throwing out a theorhetical.

Not a chance. If someone captures the triple crown...they WILL be the mvp without a doubt.

[kaldaniels]

Not a chance. If someone captures the triple crown...they WILL be the mvp without a doubt.

Oh I get that. Pujols winning the TC will hand him the MVP. But could Votto be "robbed" by the pub that Albert gets winning the triple crown?

[Tornon]

The Pirates have not scored more than 3 runs in a game Ohlendorf started this year yet.. maybe today can be the changing of that now?

[membengal]

The Pirates really are pathetic. Walk, single, and then Ohlendorf left with shoulder pain. The guy brought in for his first pitch hung a slider and Pujols hit it 425 feet. Then Holliday double, Lopez walked and Molina singled. Lucky it was only four runs.

Just a gross display of baseball in all respects from Pittsburgh.

[Scrap Irony]

Oh I get that. Pujols winning the TC will hand him the MVP. But could Votto be "robbed" by the pub that Albert gets winning the triple crown?

If a guy wins the Triple Crown, he deserves the MVP. There's no "robbing" there.

[Tornon]

The Pirates really are pathetic. Walk, single, and then Ohlendorf left with shoulder pain. The guy brought in for his first pitch hung a slider and Pujols hit it 425 feet. Then Holliday double, Lopez walked and Molina singled. Lucky it was only four runs.

Just a gross display of baseball in all respects from Pittsburgh.

They've got Maholm tomorrow.. & Karstens on Wednesday who isn't always awful, i'm hoping they can squeak 1

[BCubb2003]

Are these the Pirates who once swept the Reds?

[kaldaniels]

If a guy wins the Triple Crown, he deserves the MVP. There's no "robbing" there.

But aren't there better defining stats than batting average and RBI?

[membengal]

Edited:

Nope, got it wrong. Ignore.

[IslandRed]

But aren't there better defining stats than batting average and RBI?

Batting average, home runs and runs batted in are not defining stats when looked at in isolation.

But it's hard to come up with realistic math to where a player leads the league in all three categories, yet another guy is clearly the better offensive player.

[Tornon]

I'll edit too then.

And sportswriters are the ones that vote for MVP, do you really think they'd take into account numbers other than RBI, HR, & BA?

[membengal]

Yaz did win the MVP in '67.

And sportswriters are the ones that vote for MVP, do you really think they'd take into account numbers other than RBI, HR, & BA?

Yes, he did, I had already edited above, darn it.

Ted Williams won the triple crown twice and did not win an MVP in either of the seasons when he accomplished that feat though.

That said, it is next to inconceivable to me, in this day and age, were someone to achieve the triple crown, that the MVP would not automatically follow.

[Brutus]

Yes, he did, I had already edited above, darn it.

Ted Williams won the triple crown twice and did not win an MVP in either of the seasons when he accomplished that feat though.

That said, it is next to inconceivable to me, in this day and age, were someone to achieve the triple crown, that the MVP would not automatically follow.

That would definitely be a kick in the shins, groin, stomach and poke in the eyes.

[Slyder]

Yes, he did, I had already edited above, darn it.

Ted Williams won the triple crown twice and did not win an MVP in either of the seasons when he accomplished that feat though.

That said, it is next to inconceivable to me, in this day and age, were someone to achieve the triple crown, that the MVP would not automatically follow.

Wasnt the story that Ted never gave interviews and the sports writers decided to poke him in the eye basically and gave it to some slub?

[oregonred]

Braves and Phillies both lose tonight, the only piece of good news on the evening.

[membengal]

Wasnt the story that Ted never gave interviews and the sports writers decided to poke him in the eye basically and gave it to some slub?

He was prickly, don't know if that was what cost him the MVP those years. He wasn't the only triple crown winner not to win the MVP, back in the day. Gehrig didn't at one point, either.

[IslandRed]

Wasnt the story that Ted never gave interviews and the sports writers decided to poke him in the eye basically and gave it to some slub?

The two years he won the triple crown but was runner-up in the MVP, he lost out to Joe Gordon and Joe DiMaggio -- both Yankees, both Hall of Famers, both in years where the Yankees breezed to the pennant. Not hard for that to happen. Williams did win two MVP awards in years where the Red Sox won or took the race to the wire.

And the other thing, alluded to earlier in the thread, is that triple crowns weren't nearly as rare in that era as they are today.

[PuffyPig]

I still think the winner of the MVP will be determined by who wins the Central.

[fearofpopvol1]

I still think the winner of the MVP will be determined by who wins the Central.

I think if both teams make the playoffs and the WC winner comes from the Central, then numbers will be looked at. If it doesn't, then I'd agree with you. However, if someone hits the triple crown, that person will win automatically I believe.

[Cyclone792]

I turned on MLB Network just in time to watch Matt Holliday hit a two run homer in the top of the 1st at Pittsburgh. That's just brilliant.

The Pirates are worthless.

[Homer Bailey]

I saw that it was 7:14, and knew that when this thread was bumped, it was bad news. Sigh.

[OnBaseMachine]

I turned on MLB Network just in time to watch Matt Holliday hit a two run homer in the top of the 1st at Pittsburgh. That's just brilliant.

The Pirates are worthless.

With Wainwright pitching, this game is over. Well, it was over before it started. Unfortunately, the Pirates are going to keep the Cardinals in the race. After tonight, the Cardinals still have seven games remaining against the Pirates. That's probably six or seven easy wins for the Cardinals.

[oneupper]

Updated standings:

CARDS 76 54
REDS 72 53 1.5 GB

I'm just going ahead and giving the 8 remaining Pirate games to the Cards.
As the Pirates are doing.

[reds44]

Two on, one out for the Pirates.

[Tornon]

You know we love you Garrett.. comeon

[Cyclone792]

Astros and Phillies are scoreless in the top of the 2nd in Philadelphia.

[Tornon]

Updated standings:

CARDS 76 54
REDS 72 53 1.5 GB

I'm just going ahead and giving the 8 remaining Pirate games to the Cards.
As the Pirates are doing.

That's actually kind of encouraging.. if the Cardinals were to not lose any of these games to the Pirates that we'd only have to make up 1.5 games against the rest of the teams

[oneupper]

That's actually kind of encouraging.. if the Cardinals were to not lose any of these games to the Pirates that we'd only have to make up 1.5 games against the rest of the teams

Give the REDS their PIRATE games (3), and it's tied.
Does that make you happy?

[Cyclone792]

The Cardinals still lead the Pirates 2-0, and it's now in the top of the 6th inning. The Pirates have all of two singles and a walk against Wainwright so far.

The Astros have a 2-0 lead on the Phillies, and that game is also in the top of the 6th inning.

[VR]

The Cardinals still lead the Pirates 2-0, and it's now in the top of the 6th inning. The Pirates have all of two singles and a walk against Wainwright so far.

The Astros have a 2-0 lead on the Phillies, and that game is also in the top of the 6th inning.

Pirates tie it up at 2.

[Cyclone792]

The Pirates are getting something going here in the bottom of the 6th. McCutchen doubled with one out, and then Tabata tripled McCutchen in. And fresh off the press, Neil Walker singles to drive Tabata in.

Score is tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 6th. C'mon Pirates ...

[Cyclone792]

Pedro Alvarez walks to put Pirate runners on 1st and 2nd with Doumit up and two outs. Wainwright's pitch count is in the mid 80s. The Pirates stink, but the Cardinals bullpen also stinks. If they can knock Wainwright out with a lead or tied, they'll give themselves a decent chance to pull this game out.

In Philly, the Phillies are rallying and now trail the Astros 2-1 with runners on 1st and 3rd and two outs in the bottom of the 6th.

[Tornon]

Bases loaded now with another walk.. Milledge up with 2 down

[Cyclone792]

Doumit walks. Bases loaded and two outs with Milledge up. Wainwright's pitch count at 89.

[Tornon]

Well that sucks.. Milledge Ks on 3 pitches

[membengal]

At least they tied it. Which I figured they had no chance of doing.

C'mon Paul Maholm, keep it up.

[Cyclone792]

At least they tied it. Which I figured they had no chance of doing.

C'mon Paul Maholm, keep it up.

Yep, they're giving themselves a chance if they can keep pitching well. Maholm is at 104 pitches, though, so I don't think he'll be around much longer.

In Philly, the Astros ended Philly's rally in the 6th only giving up one run and Houston still leads 2-1.

[RedsMan3203]

Doumit walks. Bases loaded and two outs with Milledge up. Wainwright's pitch count at 89.

He batted for him self, atleast 1 more inning.

[Tornon]

Not everybody in the Pirates bullpen is god awful

[Tornon]

Maholm just hit Jay with 2 outs & nobody on to bring Pujols to the plate..

[Cyclone792]

Hanrahan has entered the game to face Pujols. Maholm had a nice start, and hopefully the Pirates can take advantage of it and pull out a win.

[Tornon]

Popped him up! Go bucs!

[Cyclone792]

Very great to see, especially after Hanrahan fell behind 3-0 in the count early. It's time for the Bucs to put some more runs up.

[Tornon]

Cedeno with a leadoff double..

[reds44]

Leadoff double for Cedeno.

[Tornon]

Successful sac.. comeon Andrew

[reds44]

That was his pitch.

[Tornon]

Groundout.. no movement from the runner at 3rd

[Brutus]

20+ posts on a Pirates game near September that didn't involve the Reds or anything historical... yep, I would say the Reds are in a pennant chase.

[Tornon]

20+ posts on a Pirates game near September that didn't involve the Reds or anything historical... yep, I would say the Reds are in a pennant chase.

Naaah, you're wrong. We're just all closet Pirates fans

[Tornon]

Tabata walks.. Walker now with runners at 1st & 3rd

[reds44]

Walker with a 2 RBI single!

4-2 Pirates

[Tornon]

Walker with a single! Knocking in 2 after Tabata stole 2nd!

[Tornon]

It appears Neil Walker's going to turn out to be a pretty good player

[Cyclone792]

Make it happen, Bucs! Wainwright's night has to be done after that, and now it's up to the Pirate bullpen to get the job done.

[hebroncougar]

And Wainwright's thrown like 117 pitches. Still in.

[edabbs44]

20+ posts on a Pirates game near September that didn't involve the Reds or anything historical... yep, I would say the Reds are in a pennant chase.

A-friggin-mazing, isn't it?

[Tornon]

Wainwright stayed in to get Jones.. 4-2 after 7

[reds44]

LaRussa left Wainwright in about 3 batters too long.

[Cyclone792]

Pittsburgh needs to set the Cards down in order nicely these last two innings, and if they can do that then they'll avoid having to face Pujols again.

[Brutus]

A-friggin-mazing, isn't it?

Indeed it is. And tonight, getting a win from the Pirates against Wainwright would be a major, major bonus.

[VR]

And Wainwright's thrown like 117 pitches. Still in.

I love the fact that Tony outsmarted himself there, and let his pride give the Pirates another run.

With Tabata stealing 2nd, they didn't attempt a throw....because of course, Wainwright would get the next out. Brilliant.

[membengal]

Season high pitch count for Wainwright tonite, noteworthy because StL about to embark on that stretch where they will have next to no off-days. I still think fatigue is a potential factor for Wainwright/Carp/Garcia in September. Not that they won't be great, but that an "oopsie" might catch them every so often.

[Cyclone792]

Holliday grounds out, but Lopez walks. One out with Molina up. Gimme a 6-4-3, please.

[Tornon]

Yadier flies to left.. some people thought that was a HR

[reds44]

98 MPH gas.

Three more outs.

[Tornon]

Strike 3 called! 3 more outs next inning, Pittsburgh People

[Cyclone792]

Pujols would be due up 5th in the 9th inning. Under no circumstances should he see the plate. The Pirates need to get them in order next inning after putting up a half dozen more runs in the bottom of the 8th.

[Brutus]

Everyone send their best wishes to Evan Meek.

[Tornon]

Who closes now if Hanrahan is setting up? Meek?

[Tornon]

Pirates go down quickly in the 8th.. we believe, Pittsburgh, we believe

[Cyclone792]

Who closes now if Hanrahan is setting up? Meek?

It's Meek now, I'm assuming. Hanrahan was lifted for a pinch hitter so he's done.

Tabata and Walker have had a nice game for Pittsburgh as they're a combined 4-6 with two walks, two runs scored and all four RBI.

Also, Houston is carrying a 2-1 lead into the 9th inning in Philly. It'd be very nice to get both games going the Reds way.

[reds44]

Meek has 1 save in 7 chances?

Oh my goodness....

[Tornon]

Meek has 1 save in 7 chances?

Oh my goodness....

He was a setup man to start the year, so he's not gonna have many saves.. just blown ones when he messes it up

[Cyclone792]

Meek has 1 save in 7 chances?

Oh my goodness....

That means he's due for an easy 1-2-3 inning for a save. ;)

[Tornon]

Schumaker with a leadoff single, tying run to the plate

[reds44]

And an infield single.

Oh boy.

[Tornon]

Meek misses the ball on a groundball back to him..

[edabbs44]

Pu Pu looming.

[membengal]

Problems. Meek, you are no Leake, when it comes to fielding your position.

Good grief.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pirates showing why they are 43 games under .500

[Cyclone792]

We need outs, Meek, and we need outs quickly. Get it done.

[Tornon]

Sac bunt.. Jay up with the tying run at 2nd 1 out

[reds44]

Pujols is on deck.

[Cyclone792]

Get Jay out, walk Pujols, then get Holliday out.

[Homer Bailey]

Oh my god.

[edabbs44]

Jeez, nubber single in btw ss and 3rd

[reds44]

Good to see Cedeno is still a Reds killer.

[vaticanplum]

I. loathe. the. Pirates.

[membengal]

Painful, Pirates, Painful.

I have gotten so used to watching good defense, this is just jarring watching Pittsburgh kick this game away.

[nemesis]

Evan Meek is no CoCo.

[Kc61]

Pitching coach goes out to tell Meek how to get Pujols out.

[reds44]

Pujols will GIDP.

Watch.

[membengal]

Card 1st and 2nd, Pujols up, Pirates up 1.

One out.

[nemesis]

Pujols will GIDP.

Watch.

Or hit one into the Allegheny.

[VR]

flare to left, squibber the pitcher can't field, and an a ball most NL shortstops handle. pfffffffffft.

[dsmith421]

Hell is watching the team tracking you in the standings play Pittsburgh every night.

[reds44]

1-2.

Come on Meek.

[OnBaseMachine]

I never had faith in the Pirates to win this game. I didn't even get excited when they went up 4-2 because I knew one way or another the Pirates would find a way to blow this game.

[VR]

How is it possible that the odds of Pujols doing something good here are 90%? How is that possible?

[edabbs44]

If Meek keeps throwing fastballs it's gonna be a K or a 550 footer.

[reds44]

You have to be kidding me.

[edabbs44]

Cue the circus music

[Reds Fanatic]

Pitiful. This may be the worst defense in baseball history.

[membengal]

And another ball booted by the Pirates, this time Alvarez. Bases loaded.

[edabbs44]

That was a bullet.

[dsmith421]

There's a reason they're 41-84. Look at that. 41-84. A major league baseball team.

[reds44]

He popped out!

[membengal]

Holliday pops out!

[Tornon]

We should have traded Rolen to the pirates yesterday

[RedsMan3203]

Holliday pops out!

Still only 2 outs....

[edabbs44]

CardsZone must be shut down after the first pitch pop up

[membengal]

First pitch pop out, too.

Felipe up with two outs.

[VR]

There's a reason they're 41-84. Look at that. 41-84. A major league baseball team.

Are you suggesting giving a team 7 outs in an inning is the sign of a last place ballteam?

[Tornon]

For some reason i was thinking that was 1 outs

[OnBaseMachine]

The Pirates are the worst MLB team I have ever seen.

[vaticanplum]

The Pirates are the worst MLB team I have ever seen.

Baltimore is pretty bad.

[membengal]

Still only 2 outs....

Right, but that was kinda an important out, regardless.

[vaticanplum]

First pitch strike on FeLo.

[membengal]

Baltimore is pretty bad.

Not this bad. And certainly not since Showalter took over.

[dsmith421]

Are you suggesting giving a team 7 outs in an inning is the sign of a last place ballteam?

I'm saying when a team is that bad and has made over $30M in profit over the last two years, it may be time for a forced sale in the best interests of the game.

[reds44]

2-1 on Lopez.

I can't take this.

[Tornon]

2-2

[edabbs44]

I'm saying when a team is that bad and has made over $30M in profit over the last two years, it may be time for a forced sale in the best interests of the game.

They have been doing good things as of late with the system and drafting.

[reds44]

Helped him out right there.

[vaticanplum]

Meek is hitting the high 90s on some of these fastballs. So that's nice for him.

[VR]

eyes closed swing...that's the felo we remember

[Tornon]

Do you believe in miracles??!! YES!!!

[reds44]

YES!!!!

[dsmith421]

They have been doing good things as of late with the system and drafting.

They should get a cookie.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice. Lopez pops out. Pirates win!

[membengal]

Wooooo hhhhoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OnBaseMachine]

Pirates win 4-3. I'm stunned.

[vaticanplum]

Jolly roger!!!

[Tornon]

I never had faith in the Pirates to win this game. I didn't even get excited when they went up 4-2 because I knew one way or another the Pirates would find a way to blow this game.

Pffft.. what are you talking about, they won easily

[Cyclone792]

Nice job almost screwing up but not fully screwing up, Pirates! Thank you!

Sleep well, Tony!

[Chip R]

They have been doing good things as of late with the system and drafting.

I've heard that for 15 years. There was a big thread about it here 2-3 years ago.

[membengal]

Meek really worked hard for his second career save, that was some generally woeful defense. Although, Cedeno gets props for hustling to get to the ball Alvarez booted which kept the tying run from scoring from second.

Huge help for the Reds right there. Nice if the Reds could capitalize with a win tonite in SF...

[Homer Bailey]

Astros blew their lead, and are in extras.

[OesterPoster]

Pffft.. what are you talking about, they won easily

Yep, never a doubt.

[kaldaniels]

I never had faith in the Pirates to win this game. I didn't even get excited when they went up 4-2 because I knew one way or another the Pirates would find a way to blow this game.

Overreact much?

[Brutus]

A win is a win is a win is a win, or something like that.

[Tornon]

A win is a win is a win is a win, or something like that.

And a pirate is a pirate..

[membengal]

Overreact much?

No, that's how he genuinely felt. Given that it's the Pirates, and how they conducted that inning, hard to lecture OBM on feeling that way.

[OnBaseMachine]

Thanks Pirates, you proved me wrong. Thankfully. You've already won more games against the Cardinals than I expected you would.

The Reds, at worst, will end their west coast road trip with a 1 1/2 game lead in the NL Central. I'd like for it to be at least 2 1/2 though.

[Cyclone792]

Yep, Houston blew their 2-1 lead and it's now 2-2 in the 10th inning. At least the most important result came out in our favor, and hopefully Houston can still pull their game out.

Colorado is beating Atlanta 2-1 in the 5th. Padres and DBacks get underway shortly.

[11larkin11]

Funny thing is if TLR lets Yadi throw and they get Tabata at second, this game is over with his team ahead

[OnBaseMachine]

Overreact much?

Nope. The Pirates are awful. When rooting for them to win a game, based on their record, I'll never feel comofrtable until the final out is recorded.

[oregonred]

To put things into persepctive, at the close of business on August 23, 2009 the Reds were 19 games out of first at 51-71. In last place, 1/2 game behind those same Pirates...

[Brutus]

To put things into persepctive, at the close of business on August 23, 2009 the Reds were 19 games out of first at 51-71. In last place, 1/2 game behind those same Pirates...

My how the mighty have fallen? Or, yeah...

[mbgrayson]

I love the Pirates! Thanks Bucos!

[kaldaniels]

Nope. The Pirates are awful. When rooting for them to win a game, based on their record, I'll never feel comofrtable until the final out is recorded.

They are putrid. But use your statistical knowledge. The Pirates leading 4-2 in late innings will still win more often than not.

[oregonred]

A 41-82 team beats Wainwright. Talk about Christmas in August. The Pirates are almost respectable at home this year and win slightly over 20% of their road games.

Pirates home: 29-36
Cardinals road: 27-32

Shocker is more beating Wainwright then the Pirates winning a game. Amazingly, simple odds say a 2-1 series in either direction was the most likely outcome.

[Chip R]

What will be the Cards' excuse for losing tonight?

[PuffyPig]

I've heard that for 15 years. There was a big thread about it here 2-3 years ago.

I remember even Redstorm saying they were the next great team.

[Brutus]

They are putrid. But use your statistical knowledge. The Pirates leading 4-2 in late innings will still win more often than not.

If the Pirates win a game, is anyone around to see it? No seriously, anyone?

In seriousness though, while you are right... they have saved 25 games this year as a team and blown (I think) 16 saves. So they're about as risky with a 9th inning lead as you can find.

[Chip R]

I remember even Redstorm saying they were the next great team.

They certainly grate on their fans.

[CTA513]

What will be the Cards' excuse for losing tonight?

He used some of Carpenters slick balls?

[oregonred]

CTA - LOL, nice one.

Astros/Phils move to the 11th, Rockies 3-1 over the Braves.