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OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Per the Reds twitter page

Reds acquire OF Jim Edmonds from Brewers in exchange for OF Chris Dickerson.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

mbgrayson
08-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Wow. I am shocked by this. Why make this move???

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
Well that's one way to resolve this issue.

steig
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
I'm not a huge Edmonds fan but this could help if Bruce and Stubbs don't better in august

Kc61
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
Wow. I am shocked by this. Why make this move???

To help win the NL Central.

Edskin
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
Like it. I actually wondered if we might be interested in Edmonds at the deadline. Experienced lefty bat on the bench....probably better in that role than Dickerson.

guttle11
08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
I'd rather have Edmonds over Dickerson in a big spot, so I get the move. Obviously they still are all in on Stubbs and Heisey long term, which is really good.

Brutus
08-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Wow. I am shocked by this. Why make this move???

Why not?!

This is a fantastic move, in my opinion. Experienced, quality left-handed hitter off the bench to fill in some for Stubbs? I like it.

marcshoe
08-09-2010, 01:26 PM
well that's a tad unexpected.

I'm okay with it, but surprised. Edmonds should help down the stretch.

Kc61
08-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Why not?!

This is a fantastic move, in my opinion. Experienced, quality left-handed hitter off the bench to fill in some for Stubbs? I like it.

An outfielder will have to go from the 25 to make room. Probably Nix, I would guess.

Edskin
08-09-2010, 01:27 PM
Bottom line...big game late in the year/post-season and we need a pinch hitter...do you want Dickerson or Edmonds? I'd take the vet.

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 01:27 PM
So Dickerson made it through waivers?

Brutus
08-09-2010, 01:27 PM
An outfielder will have to go from the 25 to make room. Probably Nix, I would guess.

That was my thinking as well. But that was likely to happen if they brought up Dickerson.

Edskin
08-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Also, somewhere George Grande needs to change his shorts.

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 01:28 PM
http://redsintern.mlblogs.com/assets_c/2009/06/GeorgeChris1-thumb-360x270-1207331.jpg

Brutus
08-09-2010, 01:28 PM
So Dickerson made it through waivers?

Not necessarily. Perhaps Edmonds made it through waivers and the Brewers claimed Dickerson. Could have gone either way.

cincy09
08-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Move makes perfect sense. I too thought this might happen at the July deadline.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2010, 01:29 PM
http://redsintern.mlblogs.com/assets_c/2009/06/GeorgeChris1-thumb-360x270-1207331.jpg

Love it!

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 01:29 PM
Not necessarily. Perhaps Edmonds made it through waivers and the Brewers claimed Dickerson. Could have gone either way.

Ah, makes sense.

marcshoe
08-09-2010, 01:29 PM
As an aside, the Brewers have one more player I really like. I was already a fan of Braun and Escobar from back when they were in single A.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 01:30 PM
I couldn't stand Jim Edmonds when he was a Cardinal, and I liked Chris Dickerson a lot, but I like this move a lot. Very good move by Walt.

Edmonds this season:

239 plate appearances: .286/.350/.493 - .843 OPS, including an .858 OPS vs RHP.

He's also been above average defensively this season.

His WAR this season = 2.5

Very, very good move. I hope he's in the lineup tonight vs Carpenter.

GOYA
08-09-2010, 01:30 PM
I like it but what is Edmonds getting paid?

Nasty_Boy
08-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Couldn't we have done this before he beat us last week?! ;)

mbgrayson
08-09-2010, 01:32 PM
An outfielder will have to go from the 25 to make room. Probably Nix, I would guess.

So effectively we will lose Dickerson and someone else, like Nix, to get Edmonds. I see Edmonds has an .843 OPS in 240 plate appearances this year, but he is FORTY years old. Hmmmm. Color me unconvinced.

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 01:32 PM
So, this means we have to root for Jim Edmunds?

This will be like when the Reds got Deion Sanders. ;)

medford
08-09-2010, 01:33 PM
This screams of of a typical Walt move, veteran bat to help shore up the outfield and bench. He could/can play all 3 outfield spots and is a solid lefty vs righties. Wonder if we'll see a bit of a platoon w/ Gomes?

Hate to see Dickerson go, but his history shows that you can't count on him, so I like getting the Vet, and if Heisey is going to get more CF time than Stubbs, you need another bench of the bat to go w/ Nix & Cairo.

George Grande picked a bad time to hang up the mic, I can't imagine how excited he would be, he may have even inserted a "damn" into the best sports show period.

westofyou
08-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Dickerson's wrist would limit his power off the bench, this will allow the Reds to have not only a guy with pop and knowledge of the strike zone for the stretch, but a guy who knows the leagues pitchers and what pressure is and how to handle it.

Good move

GOYA
08-09-2010, 01:34 PM
Confirmed by ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5449338


Jim Edmonds has told ESPN's Eduardo Perez in a text message that he has been traded from the Milwaukee Brewers to the Cincinnati Reds.

The Reds host one of Edmonds' former teams, the St. Louis Cardinals, in a crucial three-game series starting Monday night (ESPN, 7 ET). The Reds led the Cardinals by two games in the NL Central entering Monday's games.

The veteran outfielder was batting .286 with 6 home runs and 20 RBIs in 73 games entering Monday's games. In 17 seasons with the Angels, Cardinals, Padres, Cubs and Brewers he has a .285 career batting average with 1,245 runs scored, 1,943 hits, 390 home runs and 1,196 RBIs.

BCubb2003
08-09-2010, 01:36 PM
I know how much RedsZone always enjoyed the flair he showed in the outfield.

Puffy
08-09-2010, 01:36 PM
Dickerson's wrist would limit his power off the bench, this will allow the Reds to have not only a guy with pop and knowledge of the strike zone for the stretch, but a guy who knows the leagues pitchers and what pressure is and how to handle it.

Good move

Yup. Love the move.

Might we see Stubbs optioned down w/ Heisey now playing center in a quasi platoon w/ Edmonds???

Rojo
08-09-2010, 01:39 PM
I like Dickerson more than most, I think he can have a few productive years. But this year Edmonds is more valuable.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 01:39 PM
Great move. Really like it.

medford
08-09-2010, 01:40 PM
Actually, realizing we have to send someone down, I wonder if Drew goes down, or perhaps Franscisco? Depending on how Phillips is doing, I think they need a middle infield reserve, perhaps Edmunds gives them the left handed bat they wanted, so they can send Fanscico down along w/ Stubbs and call up a middle infielder.

Kc61
08-09-2010, 01:40 PM
Yup. Love the move.

Might we see Stubbs optioned down w/ Heisey now playing center in a quasi platoon w/ Edmonds???

My guess is Nix is going, but I could see a demotion of Stubbs or Francisco. Of course, Stubbs had a big day Saturday. And Francisco isn't an outfielder, the likelihood is that an outfielder goes.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2010, 01:40 PM
I like the move. I think down the stretch in pressure situations Edmonds who has been through all this before several times will prove to be a valuable bench player.

Cedric
08-09-2010, 01:40 PM
So who is going to lead the green initiative from now on?

Dickerson was terribly annoying. Glad he is gone and now the Reds have a top notch LH bench bat.

Red in Chicago
08-09-2010, 01:41 PM
I couldn't stand Jim Edmonds when he was a Cardinal, and I liked Chris Dickerson a lot, but I like this move a lot. Very good move by Walt.

This sums it up for me as well, only I'd like to add that I also hated him as a Cub and Brewer;)

redsmetz
08-09-2010, 01:41 PM
Someone asked what Edmonds is getting paid this year - $850K per Cots, compared to Dickerson's $415K.

RedsManRick
08-09-2010, 01:42 PM
Upgrade for 2010, obviously a "downgrade" beyond that. But it's pretty clear the Reds were not going to have a role for Dickerson beyond 5th OF (Nix's role). I like that it gives us another option in LF/CF(?) against tough righties.

gonelong
08-09-2010, 01:42 PM
Like the move, also gives the kids in the OF a vet to lean on.

GL

kbrake
08-09-2010, 01:43 PM
I don't know that I can root for this guy. Well until he has his first big hit haha.

BCubb2003
08-09-2010, 01:43 PM
Rolen, Edmonds, is David Eckstein next?

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Rolen, Edmonds, is David Eckstein next?

Larry Walker must not have been picking up

Brutus
08-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Rolen, Edmonds, is David Eckstein next?

You forgot Springer and Isringhousen.

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 01:45 PM
Cairo too.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 01:46 PM
I was advocating for the Reds to acquire Edmonds last year to platoon in LF. Hopefully this marks the beginning of the end for Johnny Gomes as a starter against RHPs. Playing the platoon splits and getting a plus defender for LF has to help this team going forward.

Dickerson was odd man out in an outfield that features young talent like Bruce, Stubbs and Heisey. At best, he's a 4th OF behind that trio.

Great move by Walt, IMO.

BCubb2003
08-09-2010, 01:47 PM
The ex-Card Reds are about like the ex-Red Nationals.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 01:47 PM
I hope Dusty handles this the right way. I would start Edmonds in LF vs right handed pitchers. Stubbs should still get the majority of the starts in CF with Heisey getting some playing time as well.

I really liked Dickerson but I think Edmonds provides more with the bat this season.

Homer Bailey
08-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Wow an outfield of Edmonds-Stubbs-Bruce with an infield of Rolen-Janish-BP-Votto... is that the best defense in the majors?

westofyou
08-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Reds have been poaching off the Cardinals since the 30's, almost every decade has had a former cardinal executive or player arrive and change the course of the team.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 01:48 PM
The ex-Card Reds are about like the ex-Red Nationals.

Give me guys who play baseball the Cardinal way 100 days out of 100.

Homer Bailey
08-09-2010, 01:49 PM
Edmonds is 7 for 20 lifetime off Carpenter.

Scrap Irony
08-09-2010, 01:50 PM
Like the move, though I think Edmonds may start quite a bit in CF in a semi-platoon with either Heisey or Stubbs. (Assuming Stubbs isn't sent down. Or Heisey for that matter.)

If Nix sticks (another big assumption), three platoons could be in order for the OF. (Woudn't that be Stengel-esque!) Cairo becomes the only IF sub with Hernandez also being able to play 1B.

nate
08-09-2010, 01:51 PM
So Edmonds only needs to play for the Pirates and Astros to unlock the "play for the entire NL Central" achievement."

HeatherC1212
08-09-2010, 01:51 PM
Wow, that's a surprise (saw this news when I was reading an article at mlb.com and ran right over here to confirm it :p: ) but having a proven bat and veteran guy who knows all about the postseason is going to be awesome for the young guys to learn from and lean on. Good job Walt! :thumbup:

IslandRed
08-09-2010, 01:52 PM
Major thumbs up. We have a big opportunity this year, and this helps. I liked Dickerson, he can play, but he obviously wasn't a centerpiece of future plans.

nate
08-09-2010, 01:52 PM
I know how much RedsZone always enjoyed the flair he showed in the outfield.

Good one!

Tommyjohn25
08-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Reds are gearing up, boys and girls. Strap yourselves in and keep your hands inside the car at all times. It's gonna be a fun ride.

reds44
08-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Major thumbs up. We have a big opportunity this year, and this helps. I liked Dickerson, he can play, but he obviously wasn't a centerpiece of future plans.
Pretty much how I feel. Everybody knows I liked Dickerson, but it's hard to complain about this move.

However, I get the feeling people are going to be upset when Stubbs is sent to AAA to make room for Edmonds. I hope it's Nix, but I just can't see it.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 01:53 PM
BTW, Edmonds has played some first base, including three games at 1B this season.

mbgrayson
08-09-2010, 01:54 PM
There are several ex-Reds on the Cardinals too: Felipe Lopez, Jason Larue, Ryan Franklin, Kyle Lohse, and Dennys Reyes. Aaron Miles, sort of, if you count spring training.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Saw the following exchange on a Cardinals board I lurk on -- I LOL'd a bit:



Jesus, Walt's reunion continues.

Rolen, Izzy, Springer, Cairo, Lincoln and now Jimmy Ballgame.

At least a couple of those guys would really, really love to beat Tony LaRussa. But how many still have the ability to do so? It's kinda funny, really.
Maybe we'll sign Danny Graves as retribution.

HeatherC1212
08-09-2010, 01:55 PM
Pretty much how I feel. Everybody knows I liked Dickerson, but it's hard to complain about this move.

However, I get the feeling people are going to be upset when Stubbs is sent to AAA to make room for Edmonds. I hope it's Nix, but I just can't see it.

IIRC, Nix doesn't have any options left so it would have to be Bruce, Heisey, or Stubbs if they choose to send an outfielder down. They may send down Francisco though and just work with Cairo, Ramon, and Edmonds as the infield backups but I have no clue what the Reds will do. :eek:

Brutus
08-09-2010, 01:55 PM
BTW, Edmonds has played some first base, including three games at 1B this season.

Good point. I had not thought of that. Perhaps this means Francisco is optioned down and the Reds go with 6 outfielders since Edmonds can also play first.

11larkin11
08-09-2010, 01:55 PM
The difference between views on this trade between the ORG and Sun Deck is hysterical.

LOVE the trade, btw. Was never a huge Dickerson fan.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 01:56 PM
IIRC, Nix doesn't have any options left so it would have to be Bruce, Heisey, or Stubbs if they choose to send an outfielder down. They may send down Francisco though and just work with Cairo, Ramon, and Edmonds as the infield backups but I have no clue what the Reds will do. :eek:

There's no reason for Nix to be on the team now -- Edmonds fills the exact same role as him: LH w/ pop who can play all 3 OF positions.

He's absolutely the logical casualty here.

reds44
08-09-2010, 01:57 PM
IIRC, Nix doesn't have any options left so it would have to be Bruce, Heisey, or Stubbs if they choose to send an outfielder down. They may send down Francisco though and just work with Cairo, Ramon, and Edmonds as the infield backups but I have no clue what the Reds will do. :eek:
That's actually a good point, and probably what I would do. Have Edmonds be the backup 1st baseman and Cairo be the backup at the other three IF spots.

If somebody gets hurt, you can always call somebody up.

Cedric
08-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Nix needs to go. That is the obvious choice.

15fan
08-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Crap.

Edmonds falls into the group of players that I'd rather lose without than win with.

A part of me will die each time he puts on a Reds uniform and takes the field.

Especially if he has the gall to wear the most sacred of Reds numbers.

nate
08-09-2010, 02:00 PM
I didn't think Edmonds had played that much this season but he does have 240 PA and a .369 wOBA. Hard to tell what his true fielding level is but so far this year, he's performed nicely in CF and RF.

Interesting move.

osuceltic
08-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Love it. I wouldn't rule out Edmonds getting a lot of PT in right field either. Don't just assume he's a Stubbs-Gomes caddy. I think he may get a lot of ABs in right the rest of the way.

HeatherC1212
08-09-2010, 02:01 PM
I'm probably the minority but I'd rather see Juan go down with Nix staying here. He's done everything that they've asked of him and for the most part has done it pretty well especially lately. He's made the most of his chances when starting and he's been a pretty good PH off the bench. I'll totally understand if he's the one to go (Edmonds does make him redundant) but I'd rather send Juan down for now. JMO and I honestly have NO clue what they'll do with this situation. I hope we find out soon! :)

Scrap Irony
08-09-2010, 02:02 PM
I'm with you, Heather. Then again, I'd also like to see how three OF platoons would work, post-1965.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:03 PM
I didn't think Edmonds had played that much this season but he does have 240 PA and a .369 wOBA. Hard to tell what his true fielding level is but so far this year, he's performed nicely in CF and RF.

Interesting move.

Fangraphs has him as well above average in both RF and CF this season, albeit in limited appearences for both.

Edmonds has always been an absolutely stellar fielder (even if he did show off more than his fair share during his prime). The catch he made climbing the wall in CF at GABP a few years back is one of the better defensive plays I've ever seen.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:03 PM
Edmonds has a 126 OPS+ this season.

durl
08-09-2010, 02:03 PM
Wow...I never saw this one coming. I think it's a good move. Edmonds has been one of those players that I always dreaded seeing come to the plate against the Reds. He's a short-term fix but I'm fine with that. It appears we'll continue seeing Heisey in a Reds uniform, also.

Has Edmonds played RF? It makes me wonder if Jay Bruce is thinking that he better start improving at the plate.

yab1112
08-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Oh, I like this very much.

mbgrayson
08-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Nix needs to go. That is the obvious choice.


Nix in 2010: .273/.324/.462 for an OPS of .786 w/ 4 HRs and 15 RBIs in 132 ABs.
Edmonds in 2010: .286/.350/.493 for an OPS of .843 w/ 8 HRs and 20 RBIs in 217 AB.

2010 UZR:

Edmonds= 6.4
Nix= 3.4

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:08 PM
Jim Edmonds is trending No. 1 on twitter right now.

_Sir_Charles_
08-09-2010, 02:10 PM
I'm not a huge Edmonds fan, but I really like this move. For Chris.

This gives him an opportunity he simply wasn't going to get here. Way too much competition for his slot. I wish him the best...just not against the Reds. :O)

Puffy
08-09-2010, 02:10 PM
I think its got to be Francisco or Stubbs. No way is Nix going anywhere and frankly I don't think he should. He is perfectly fine with bench role, plays good defense and is another nice lefty to have off bench.

Lets be honest, Francisco has a brighter future but is there anyway you want him up against a strikeout pitcher with game on line at this point in a pennant race?? Plus he will still be back for September call ups.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:11 PM
I'm thinking Francisco gets sent down. Nix has been fine as of late and has been exactly what we'd hope Edmonds would be.

Big Klu
08-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Saw the following exchange on a Cardinals board I lurk on -- I LOL'd a bit:

I have a membership on that board--though I haven't posted anything there in years.

I(heart)Freel
08-09-2010, 02:12 PM
Francisco was called up Aug 4.

Means he cant be sent back down (except for injury) for 10 days, right?

It's Nix or Stubbs.

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
It's got to be Nix. Six OF'ers is too many especially considering the lack of depth in the infield currently.

George Anderson
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
If veteran playoff experience in the clubhouse means anything then this is a good move.

Cedric
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Are people forgetting Nix is a .700 career OPS guy?

Color me unimpressed by a few good games and a .780 OPS on a guy with a terrible track record.

Big Klu
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Francisco was called up Aug 4.

Means he cant be sent back down (except for injury) for 10 days, right?

It's Nix or Stubbs.

No, it works the other way around. If a player is sent down, then he can't be called back up for 10 days.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
I just don't see them going with 5 infielders. Cairo would become the only backup at 3B, SS and 2B.

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:14 PM
No, it works the other way around. If a player is sent down, then he can't be called back up for 10 days.

yep, he can be dropped off the roster willy nilly, not added

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 02:15 PM
Francisco was called up Aug 4.

Means he cant be sent back down (except for injury) for 10 days, right?

It's Nix or Stubbs.

Not quite. You can't recall a player from the minors for 10 days unless an injury occurs. Players can be demoted at any time (as long as they have options or clear waivers).

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:15 PM
I just don't see them going with 5 infielders. Cairo would become the only backup at 3B, SS and 2B.

For a short period of time (until, at a minimum, OC gets back). Then decisions get funky.

dfs
08-09-2010, 02:15 PM
So effectively we will lose Dickerson and someone else, like Nix, to get Edmonds. I see Edmonds has an .843 OPS in 240 plate appearances this year, but he is FORTY years old. Hmmmm. Color me unconvinced.

but that's exactly where a club like the reds is at. You discard multiple smaller talents for a bigger one that can actually help you.

Now....that's one way to read it.

As much respect as I have for Edmonds career, I would rather have Chris Dickerson at this point. I can see arguing the other way, but if it were my call to make.....

Of course I would have kept Edwin instead of trading for that over the hill injury magnet the reds are starting at third base these days.

Cyclone792
08-09-2010, 02:15 PM
Very interesting move, and I think I like it. With the emergency of Heisey, it becomes much easier to let a guy like Dickerson go and hopefully not have to worry about having an OF hole in the future. With Heisey, that worry lessens, and most likely a guy like Edmonds is going to help the team more this year than Dickerson would.

I'm just curious who gets sent down. Nix is the obvious choice, because he doesn't do anything that Edmonds doesn't do better. I'd be shocked if Stubbs was sent down; he seems to be the type of guy the Reds are going to stick with through whatever is necessary to develop him ... unless he doesn't develop, in which case they'll trade him in the future.

I think Francisco stays up until Cabrera is back up. While I'm not a fan of Juan, sending him down leaves the team short on infielders. Not only that, but it would mean Cairo is the only backup IF, and that may limit Dusty on using Cairo for PH duties for much the same reason that the backup catcher doesn't get many PH duties; if someone gets hurt later in the game after the backup pinch hits, there's no real option for a replacement.

So yea, it's going to be Nix, I would think.

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm thinking Francisco gets sent down. Nix has been fine as of late and has been exactly what we'd hope Edmonds would be.
It's not really about that, they'd just be in a real squeeze having Cairo the only backup at 3B/SS/2B. Especially when you consider how many off days Rolen gets.

WVRed
08-09-2010, 02:17 PM
Veteran bat we desperately needed.

Say what you want about former Cardinal players, but if we win the division, I will be happy with it.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:17 PM
It's not really about that, they'd just be in a real squeeze having Cairo the only backup at 3B/SS/2B. Especially when you consider how many off days Rolen gets.

It's a crazy thought, but I could also see them sending off Carlos Fisher. He isn't pitching, and I highly doubt he's going to see the mound this series unless the team is getting blown out.

Buys them time with a decision for the week, at least.

I(heart)Freel
08-09-2010, 02:19 PM
Not quite. You can't recall a player from the minors for 10 days unless an injury occurs. Players can be demoted at any time (as long as they have options or clear waivers).

Thanks for clarification. I'm more convinced it will be Francisco then.

With LaRussa's deep bullpen, you want lots of experienced pinch hitters to counter. That means Nix will be more needed this series.

bucksfan2
08-09-2010, 02:19 PM
I always kinda liked Edmonds except when he was playing against the Reds. It always seemed like he was robbing HR's at GABP. I do find it ironic that Edmonds was traded to the Cards around the same time that Jr. was traded to the Reds. Jr came with all the fanfare while the Edmonds traded worked out much better for the Cards.

Its an interesting trade to say the least. What is ironic is that the Reds could have signed Jim earlier this off season. Now they have to give up a guy like Dickerson in order to get Edmonds. I don't really know what Dickerson is because he can't stay healthy and really failed to take advantage of early season opportunities in both 09 and 10. The Reds are definatly better this season with Edmonds over Dickerson and to be honest with the arrival of Heisey Chris didn't have a place to play.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:19 PM
Wow. I am shocked by this. Why make this move???I don't mind giving up Dickerson, however, I don't expect Edmonds to make much a difference. My worry is that he will take ABs from Heisey who IMO is the best OF on the team.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:20 PM
It's not really about that, they'd just be in a real squeeze having Cairo the only backup at 3B/SS/2B. Especially when you consider how many off days Rolen gets.

For only the next week, really, with off days on Wednesday and Monday. Maybe OC looks much better at this stage.

Fisher is another interesting name.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:21 PM
Yup. Love the move.

Might we see Stubbs optioned down w/ Heisey now playing center in a quasi platoon w/ Edmonds???
I don't want a platoon with Heisey/Edmonds, I want a platoon with Gomes/Edmonds.

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:22 PM
For only the next week, really, with off days on Wednesday and Monday. Maybe OC looks much better at this stage.

Fisher is another interesting name.
Even if OC is ready, you're going to have to send somebody else down then.

Fisher is definatley an interesting name.

HotCorner
08-09-2010, 02:22 PM
It's a crazy thought, but I could also see them sending off Carlos Fisher. He isn't pitching, and I highly doubt he's going to see the mound this series unless the team is getting blown out.

Buys them time with a decision for the week, at least.

Good point.

TeamBoone
08-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Oh good Lord! Why?

I can see NOTHING beneficial to the Reds about this.

Cyclone792
08-09-2010, 02:23 PM
I don't want a platoon with Heisey/Edmonds, I want a platoon with Gomes/Edmonds.

That'd be a pretty solid platoon. Gomes is hitting southpaws again this year, but he isn't getting on base against righties. Edmonds will likely hit righties much better than Gomes, and he could slide in right behind Rolen.

Heisey should be getting the majority of starts in center.

Suddenly, that lineup starts looking pretty lethal against righties.

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Heisey has a 1.194 OPS vs RHP and a .636 OPS vsLHP. That's a small sample size and I'm sure it'll even out over time, but platooning him makes no sense.

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:25 PM
Oh good Lord! Why?

I can see NOTHING beneficial to the Reds about this.

Maybe Bob C is buying a mustard franchise and wants a real hot dog to help promote it?

Maybe it's an attempt to persuade Grande to return to the booth?

Or perhaps move mostly to taunt haters?

CTA513
08-09-2010, 02:25 PM
The Reds brought Edmonds in so he can take more home runs away from LaRue when the Reds play the Cardinals.

;)

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 02:26 PM
It's a crazy thought, but I could also see them sending off Carlos Fisher. He isn't pitching, and I highly doubt he's going to see the mound this series unless the team is getting blown out.

Buys them time with a decision for the week, at least.

I think Fisher is the current long reliever. Which I hope the Reds don't need.

medford
08-09-2010, 02:26 PM
When is OC due back? If its anywhere near the end of the month (or later) I'm thinking it would be wise to hold him out a few extra days until Sept 1st to give them extra options for the playoff roster heading into October. If he's called up on Aug 31st, then whomever he replaces on the roster won't be eligible for the postseason roster (unless they were DLed when OC came off)

Didn't think about Fisher, that probably makes some sense. W/ the off day on Thursday, Dusty could always tell Volquez to be ready just in case tonight (if Edmunds is here), then tell Wood to be ready just in case the next 2 nights, and push back their next start. Then next week, Leake could be put on notice for the first couple of days that he's the long man if needed. Would be around the time that Homer is ready to return, at which point Leake might move to the bullpen anyways.

At any rate, they have a lot of decisions to make prior to Aug 31st about who they want on the roster and who the don't mind leaving off the potential playoff roster.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:26 PM
Heisey has a 1.194 OPS vs RHP and a .636 OPS vsLHP. That's a small sample size and I'm sure it'll even out over time, but platooning him makes no sense.Heisey, IMO is the best OF the Reds have with the glove (he doesn't shy away from the wall like Stubbs) and with the bat.

WVRedsFan
08-09-2010, 02:26 PM
Love it!That's MY icon, mister.

George is coming back...

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:27 PM
That'd be a pretty solid platoon. Gomes is hitting southpaws again this year, but he isn't getting on base against righties. Edmonds will likely hit righties much better than Gomes, and he could slide in right behind Rolen.

Heisey should be getting the majority of starts in center.

Suddenly, that lineup starts looking pretty lethal against righties.

Votto - Phillips - Janish - Rolen in the IF; Bruce - Heisey - Edmonds in the OF.

Would easily be the best defensive team I've seen the Reds field in my lifetime. I'd feel a lot better about some of the games out west with that group patrolling the OF.

TRF
08-09-2010, 02:28 PM
Oh good Lord! Why?

I can see NOTHING beneficial to the Reds about this.

hater. ;)

Seriously, If Dickerson is added to the Brewers 25 man roster, I won't be surprised in the least if 1 of two things happen:


He goes on an absolute tear, hitting over .350 for the rest of the season with power.
He tweaks something and is out for the season.


Getting Edmonds has the added benefit of another LH OF that can mentor Bruce a bit. They will have that in common, and it's probably better he talk to an outsider than to Votto about hitting.

Of course what I said about Dickerson applies to Edmonds as well.

It's an interesting move, certainly not what I expected.

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Heisey, IMO is the best OF the Reds have with the glove (he doesn't shy away from the wall like Stubbs) and with the bat.
Bruce is the best defensive OFer the Reds have. Heisey, Stubbs, and Bruce are all really good though.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:29 PM
who the Reds send out I really don't care. What I want to continue to see is Heisey and Janish continue to play as they have improved both the defense and offense at their positions. My cynicism tells me that both will be riding the pine for long stretches in the near future.

Marc D
08-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Just saw the news. Wow.

My first reaction is this is all good and hopefully we get a Gomes/Edmonds platoon in LF.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Edmonds will wear No. 15 for the Reds.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Bruce is the best defensive OFer the Reds have. Heisey, Stubbs, and Bruce are all really good though.he has the best arm he is not the best OF. Heisey is faster and the UZR/150 shows it.

redsfan30
08-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Could be a good mentor for Jay Bruce.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Could be a good mentor for Jay Bruce.

Edmonds & Rolen will, hopefully, be calming forces in the clubhouse as this extremely young bunch navigates the ups and downs of a playoff hunt.

LoganBuck
08-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Doc Rodgers is going to have a nervous breakdown over this. He has been Dickerson's biggest fan.

I am ambivalent about this move. Dickerson would likely have put up similar numbers the rest of the way, and been under the Reds control moving forward, but Edmonds does give that outfield group a good mentor. And I would much rather see Edmonds up there with the game on the line.

My guess is Stubbs stays. He is the only true speed on the team this week, especially if Phillips is nicked up.

_Sir_Charles_
08-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Votto - Phillips - Janish - Rolen in the IF; Bruce - Heisey - Edmonds in the OF.

Would easily be the best defensive team I've seen the Reds field in my lifetime. I'd feel a lot better about some of the games out west with that group patrolling the OF.

Toss in Hanigan and it's easily the best defense in MLB right now....by far.

Big Klu
08-09-2010, 02:33 PM
It's a crazy thought, but I could also see them sending off Carlos Fisher. He isn't pitching, and I highly doubt he's going to see the mound this series unless the team is getting blown out.

Buys them time with a decision for the week, at least.

I like your idea. If the Reds get in a bind with the bullpen, they can always call on more reinforcements at Lousiville (Burton, Chapman, Isringhausen, even Herrera and Del Rosario).


(On an unrelated note, I have a question about your avatar...)

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:34 PM
forget the mentoring crap. Edmonds is still a decent glove and would be a huge upgrade over the defense of Gomes. This could work out if used correctly but what I expect is that Edmonds will take ABs from the wrong people.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:35 PM
(On an unrelated note, I have a question about your avatar...)

It's a weeping angel. Don't blink. ;)

IowaRed
08-09-2010, 02:36 PM
if somebody would have asked me 3 years ago, who was the 1 person in the universe I wouldn't want to manage my favorite team I would have said, without hesitation, Dusty Baker

If somebody would have asked me this morning who is the 1 player in the universe I wouldn't want to play for my favorite team I would have said, without hesitation, Jim Edmonds

I think I'm going to throw up

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:37 PM
Edmonds will wear No. 15 for the Reds.

Wow... how's this effect 15fans moniker now?

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:37 PM
if somebody would have asked me 3 years ago, who was the 1 person in the universe I wouldn't want to manage my favorite team I would have said, without hesitation, Dusty Baker

If somebody would have asked me this morning who is the 1 player in the universe I wouldn't want to play for my favorite team I would have said, without hesitation, Jim Edmonds

I think I'm going to throw up

Anticipation of a series like this one kicking off tonight will do that.

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:38 PM
I think I'm going to throw up

When you're done gagging your team will still be in first place.

redsfan30
08-09-2010, 02:39 PM
I hate Jim Edmonds personally but if he helps bring a National League Central division championship to Cincinnati, I can put on a happy face and cheer for him.

Big Klu
08-09-2010, 02:40 PM
Edmonds will wear No. 15 for the Reds.

Now we know why the Reds let Drew Sutton go!


It's a weeping angel. Don't blink. ;)

That's what I thought! ;)

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 02:40 PM
I think I'm going to throw up

It'll be OK. When the Reds got Deion Sanders back in the mid-'90's, I thought I was going to hurl. But once he got on the field and did some good things, I was cheering for him just like he'd been on the Reds all his life.

Cheer for the name on the front of the jersey.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:40 PM
I hope Edmonds is in the starting lineup tonight (preferably in LF), I hope he gets a standing ovation from Reds fans, and then I hope he hits a huge home run and leads the Reds to a win over the Cardinals.

Homer Bailey
08-09-2010, 02:42 PM
he has the best arm he is not the best OF. Heisey is faster and the UZR/150 shows it.

Please don't use Heisey's UZR/150 for his sample size. There isn't nearly enough data there to gather any conclusions from.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Wow... how's this effect 15fans moniker now?

He posted the rights to it on Ebay shortly after the announcement and "TheGrandeFinale" currently has the highest bid.

medford
08-09-2010, 02:45 PM
So, has there been any indication that Edmunds will suit up for the Reds tonight (starting or otherwise?)

I wonder if there will ever be a move made by Dusty that will be greated with 100% approval. Sometimes it seems like the guy can't win around here, even when he hasn't filled out a lineup card yet.

VR
08-09-2010, 02:45 PM
I think it's a good sign that the Reds are content with their outfield depth for the near future.
The September roster is going to be loaded for bear....I don't think the Cards will be able to add the number of quality players to help them down the stretch that the Reds will.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:45 PM
So, has there been any indication that Edmunds will suit up for the Reds tonight (starting or otherwise?)

I wonder if there will ever be a move made by Dusty that will be greated with 100% approval. Sometimes it seems like the guy can't win around here, even when he hasn't filled out a lineup card yet.

I can't believe Dusty hasn't announced whether he is starting or not yet.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:46 PM
Please don't use Heisey's UZR/150 for his sample size. There isn't nearly enough data there to gather any conclusions from.it's is high enough to give a good idea that he is an above average OF and I don't think anyone would argue he doesn't pass the sight test. IMO the odds are high that Heisey is a well above average defensive OF.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:46 PM
Jim Edmonds is batting 5th and playing CF tonight.

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/tonights-reds-lineup-40.html

osuceltic
08-09-2010, 02:46 PM
forget the mentoring crap. Edmonds is still a decent glove and would be a huge upgrade over the defense of Gomes. This could work out if used correctly but what I expect is that Edmonds will take ABs from the wrong people.

Who are the wrong people?

I actually think your opinion is going to mirror most of RZ. Everyone seems to be assuming he's here as a platoon partner for Gomes / insurance for Stubbs / experienced bench bat. But I'm not at all convinced he isn't here to be the starting right-fielder -- or at least an option for that spot if Bruce continues to struggle.

If that happens, I shudder to think of the consternation of the RZ masses.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:47 PM
I think it's a good sign that the Reds are content with their outfield depth for the near future.
The September roster is going to be loaded for bear....I don't think the Cards will be able to add the number of quality players to help them down the stretch that the Reds will.
Edmonds has been decent in limited ABs. He would be an upgrade if used properly but I have my doubts about him being used properly.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Jim Edmonds is batting 5th and playing CF tonight.

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/tonights-reds-lineup-40.html

Loading the lineup with lefties against Carp.

redsfan30
08-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Well, it's not Nix......

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Who are the wrong people?

I actually think your opinion is going to mirror most of RZ. Everyone seems to be assuming he's here as a platoon partner for Gomes / insurance for Stubbs / experienced bench bat. But I'm not at all convinced he isn't here to be the starting right-fielder -- or at least an option for that spot if Bruce continues to struggle.

If that happens, I shudder to think of the consternation of the RZ masses.

He's not going to take many Jay Bruce ab's away is my guess

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Jim Edmonds is batting 5th and playing CF tonight.

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/tonights-reds-lineup-40.html
No Heisey. And so it begins.

Homer Bailey
08-09-2010, 02:48 PM
it's is high enough to give a good idea that he is an above average OF and I don't think anyone would argue he doesn't pass the sight test. IMO the odds are high that Heisey is a well above average defensive OF.

While I agree with that, I wouldn't use that number to say he's a better defender than Bruce, as I don't think he is at all.

A silly issue to debate, as we should both be happy that they are both Reds :thumbup:.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
I really hope they don't send Heisey or Stubbs down. It would be a huge mistake, IMO.

Scrap Irony
08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Jim Edmonds is batting 5th and playing CF tonight.

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/tonights-reds-lineup-40.html

That's a really, really solid defense behind Leake tonight. And it's seriously left-handed with pop and obp.

When Jay Bruce is your worst hitter in the lineup, I'd say you've got a fighting chance in every game you play.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
No Heisey. And so it begins.

I wouldn't take anything away from this other than Chris Carpenter is really tough on RHs.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Who are the wrong people?

I actually think your opinion is going to mirror most of RZ. Everyone seems to be assuming he's here as a platoon partner for Gomes / insurance for Stubbs / experienced bench bat. But I'm not at all convinced he isn't here to be the starting right-fielder -- or at least an option for that spot if Bruce continues to struggle.

If that happens, I shudder to think of the consternation of the RZ masses.
Post AB bruce, gomes and Stubbs have all struggled. Add to that fact that Gomes is an awful OF the answer is that those three guys should be the ones that lose ABs in the short term (I have no doubt that Stubbs will). IMO Heisey should be playing everyday.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2010, 02:49 PM
It might be Francisco that goes down. If it is not him it is probably Stubbs with Nix in the lineup tonight.

osuceltic
08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
He's not going to take many Jay Bruce ab's away is my guess

You may be right. I think both Stubbs and Bruce are on short leashes at this point. If either guy continues his month-long struggles, I think Edmonds steps in and Dusty doesn't look back.

CTA513
08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
Jim Edmonds is batting 5th and playing CF tonight.

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/tonights-reds-lineup-40.html

The Reds have left handed hitters batting back to back 2 times in the lineup.

:eek:

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
I wouldn't take anything away from this other than Chris Carpenter is really tough on RHs.
like Gomes? Dusty can't help himself and that is the problem. BTW, Edmonds is a slow CF at this point.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:50 PM
The Reds have left handed hitters batting back to back 2 times in the lineup.

:eek:

With Heisey and Stubbs waiting for Reyes to waddle out of the bullpen.

Homer Bailey
08-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Lots of lefties vs. Carp. Can't complain about that.

reds44
08-09-2010, 02:51 PM
With Heisey and Stubbs waiting for Reyes to waddle out of the bullpen.
Yeah, I don't think Nix or Edmonds will see a LHP tonight. It'll probably be Heisey and Gomes, though.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I don't think Nix or Edmonds will see a LHP tonight. It'll probably be Heisey and Gomes, though.with Carpenter pitching it is unlikely to matter.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I don't think Nix or Edmonds will see a LHP tonight. It'll probably be Heisey and Gomes, though.

Oh yeah....jeez, forgot about my boy already.

Gomes would be first off the bench vs a lefty.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:53 PM
It's amazing how much this FO knows until they do something that you don't agree with.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:54 PM
BTW, lefties don't hit any better than righties off of Carpenter.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:55 PM
It's amazing how much this FO knows until they do something that you don't agree with.
it's not the FO that I have a problem with, it's the tendencies of the on-field management that I take issue with.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:56 PM
BTW, lefties don't hit any better than righties off of Carpenter.

Lefties are 100 OPS pts better in his career

westofyou
08-09-2010, 02:56 PM
BTW, lefties don't hit any better than righties off of Carpenter.

On his strat card they do.

Mario-Rijo
08-09-2010, 02:56 PM
Edmonds in CF? That guy isn't a CF anymore. I understand the move, but don't care for it, much rather had Dickerson.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 02:57 PM
it's not the FO that I have a problem with, it's the tendencies of the on-field management that I take issue with.

I would imagine that this decision was made for Dusty.

Scrap Irony
08-09-2010, 02:57 PM
like Gomes? Dusty can't help himself and that is the problem. BTW, Edmonds is a slow CF at this point.

1) Gomes isn't playing tonight.
2) I keep hearing that. This team is still in first place.
3) While Edmonds may be slow, he still grades out above average as a CF.

cumberlandreds
08-09-2010, 02:57 PM
The Reds just upped the ante a little in this budding rivalry. I don't have aproblem with the move provided he's healthy enough to play reasonably well in the field. He was having achilles problems when the Red splayed the Brewers last and wasn't playing the field at all.
Does this mean his HR that beat the Reds doesn't count now??? ;)

flyer85
08-09-2010, 02:58 PM
I would imagine that this decision was made for Dusty.I doubt it. Dusty has shown the ability to shoot himself in the foot without any front office assistance and his managerial career highlights his tendency to go with veteran ballplayer whenever he is given the chance. It's one of the issues for almost every manager that was a long time everyday major league player.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:01 PM
1) Gomes isn't playing tonight.
2) I keep hearing that. This team is still in first place.
3) While Edmonds may be slow, he still grades out above average as a CF.
the metrics showed he was bad last and is good this year says to me he is average). He is definitely slower than he used to be and has been having leg problems this year, not a good recipe for a guy to be playing CF.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:03 PM
I doubt it. Dusty has shown the ability to shoot himself in the foot without any front office assistance and his managerial career highlights his tendency to go with veteran ballplayer whenever he is given the chance. It's one of the issues for almost every manager that was a long time everyday major league player.

Cincy is in first. Dusty makes dumb mistakes all the time and they are in first. Walt signs the wrong guys and falls asleep at the switches and they are in first place.

These guys do have a clue. I would bet that Edmonds' usage and role was thoroughly discussed on multiple levels during the negotiations. He wasn't gift wrapped and put in Dusty's locker with a note saying "Do as you please".

traderumor
08-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Edmonds in CF? That guy isn't a CF anymore. I understand the move, but don't care for it, much rather had Dickerson.I think some defense analysis was provided elsewhere in this thread that disagrees with you. Of course he is going to be slower, but I don't think he has approached Griffey, Jr. out of position status yet.

Ron Madden
08-09-2010, 03:04 PM
I can see how this move could help in 2010 but in no way does it help long term.

I agree with flyer85 Edmonds will most likely take bats away from the wrong players.

I've always liked Chris Dickerson and wish him nothing but the best of luck .

medford
08-09-2010, 03:05 PM
I doubt it. Dusty has shown the ability to shoot himself in the foot without any front office assistance and his managerial career highlights his tendency to go with veteran ballplayer whenever he is given the chance. It's one of the issues for almost every manager that was a long time everyday major league player.

Is this the same Dusty that many have complained about playing Bruce & Stubbs too much? The same guy who just might win his 4th manager of the year award? I don't agree w/ a lot of what the guy does, but when given the pieces he's won a lot of games (though to be fair that's probably true of any manager). He had this team playing well last year when Votto wasn't injuried/out. I think they had one of the better records the last couple of months last year when they were playing a lot of youth and had nothing to play for. They've played above everyone's expectations all year, yet seems like he gets ripped more than any other manager I've seen.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I can see how this move could help in 2010 but in no way does it help long term.

I don't think anyone expects it to help long term.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I just hope Edmonds doesn't become the everyday center fielder. It's fine giving him an occasional start in CF but I'm hoping he gets the majority of his starts in LF vs RHP and maybe gets an occasional start in RF when Jay Bruce needs a day off. Heisey and Stubbs should get the majority of the starts in center field, IMO.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I don't think anyone expects it to help long term.

If Edmonds helps the Reds secure a playoff spot, it'll help this team long-term more than Chris Dickerson ever could hope to do.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:07 PM
If Edmonds helps the Reds secure a playoff spot, it'll help this team long-term more than Chris Dickerson ever could hope to do.

Excellent point.

traderumor
08-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I can see how this move could help in 2010 but in no way does it help long term.

I agree with flyer85 Edmonds will most likely take bats away from the wrong players.

I've always liked Chris Dickerson and wish him nothing but the best of luck .That sound more like "getting young guys experience" mode than pennant race mode. If he performs according to his YTD numbers, he will be a significant upgrade offensively at any OF position.

They just added significant depth to the OF. Hard to find a legit complaint about that.

Roy Tucker
08-09-2010, 03:07 PM
I don't think anyone expects it to help long term.

Winning a pennant is good for the long-term. Success breeds success.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Winning a pennant is good for the long-term. Success breeds success.

+1

Win now. Sell tickets. Create a culture of winning and excitement around the city. Increase cash flow to help retain players and acquire better players.

That's where this is heading if everything goes according to plan. That's where the endgame to this is in Jocketty's mind.

Still gotta win the games, but they're grabbing for the brass ring right now and I can't help but be excited.

Kc61
08-09-2010, 03:09 PM
I just hope Edmonds doesn't become the everyday center fielder. It's fine giving him an occasional start in CF but I'm hoping he gets the majority of his starts in LF vs RHP and maybe gets an occasional start in RF when Jay Bruce needs a day off. Heisey and Stubbs should get the majority of the starts in center field, IMO.

The Reds are facing two of the toughest righties in the league this week -- Carpenter and Wainright. Over Labor Day weekend they will again be facing them.

The Reds lineup lacks lefty hitters. They normally play with only two.

Heisey and Stubbs are unlikely to do as well against righty pitching of the caliber of Carpenter and Wainright. Edmonds is just more likely to be able to hit these tough righty pitchers.

So I am all for the lineup Dusty is trotting out tonight.

I am sure that Edmonds, an older player, will not play everyday. I'm sure the younger guys will still have their chances.

But againt these top notch righty pitchers, Carpenter and Wainright, I think Dusty is making the right move by starting Edmonds.

TRF
08-09-2010, 03:10 PM
wanna read something odd? Heisey's splits

vs LH: .180 .276 .360 .636 50 AB's
vs RH: .400 .485 .709 1.194 55 AB's

Kc61
08-09-2010, 03:11 PM
wanna read something odd? Heisey's splits

vs LH: .180 .276 .360 .636 50 AB's
vs RH: .400 .485 .709 1.194 55 AB's

But this is Carpenter and Wainright. Not just any righty arms.

I agree that Heisey has done better against righties, but this series is different because of the quality of the pitchers.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:11 PM
Is this the same Dusty that many have complained about playing Bruce & Stubbs too much?
Dusty is a good manager for a veteran plug-n-play ball club. He really hasn't had any other options for Stubbs/Bruce beside other young players. And Gomes has struggled badly post ASB as well and when you consider the awful defense he is as likely to hurt the team every bit as much as Stubbs or Bruce. Also throw in the fact that Janish has has no oppurtunity to play at all while Carbrera was healthy even though the data shows Cabrera is a liability at this point and should bat 8th if you have to play him. Instead he bats 2nd and yet as soon as Janish gets in the lineup he goes to 8th.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:13 PM
But this is Carpenter and Wainright. Not just any righty arms.

I agree that Heisey has done better against righties, but this series is different because of the quality of the pitchers.Carpenter and Wainright are dominant pitchers, you play your best players and hope for the best.

Strikes Out Looking
08-09-2010, 03:14 PM
I just hope Edmonds doesn't become the everyday center fielder. It's fine giving him an occasional start in CF but I'm hoping he gets the majority of his starts in LF vs RHP and maybe gets an occasional start in RF when Jay Bruce needs a day off. Heisey and Stubbs should get the majority of the starts in center field, IMO.

I don't think his body would allow this to happen if if Dusty wished to do so.

MattyHo4Life
08-09-2010, 03:15 PM
I guess Jim Edmonds is making his farewell tour through the NL Central. Now he needs to play for the Astros and Pirates before he retires, and he will have played for the entire division. lol

I was hoping the Cards would take a flyer on Edmonds before the season when he was beggign the Cards management to sign him. Mostly for sentimental reasons, but he can still play. I'm a little surprised the Cards didn't claim him on waivers now that Ludwick has been traded, but I guess they don't want to take at bats from their younger players. I can't really complain about that... even thought I liked Edmonds a lot when he was a Cardinal.

Although... I think he may have been the most disliked player in all of baseball by Reds fans due to his attitude. Am I off base on that one?

medford
08-09-2010, 03:15 PM
Dusty is a good manager for a veteran plug-n-play ball club. He really hasn't had any other options for Stubbs/Bruce beside other young players. And Gomes has struggled badly post ASB as well and when you consider the awful defense he is as likely to hurt the team every bit as much as Stubbs or Bruce. Also throw in the fact that Janish has has no oppurtunity to play at all while Carbrera was healthy even though the data shows Cabrera is a liability at this point and should bat 8th if you have to play him. Instead he bats 2nd and yet as soon as Janish gets in the lineup he goes to 8th.

IIRC, the day following OC's injury, Janish started at SS and batted 2nd. People complained about him batting 2nd. Next day he batted 8th, people complained.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:16 PM
The Reds lineup lacks lefty hitters. They normally play with only two.
The real issue is the Reds lack quality LHBs and have some RHBs that are susceptible to RHPs(Gomes being the biggest offender). Its Votto and nobody.

membengal
08-09-2010, 03:16 PM
Sure finding it hard to hate this move. He can still hit, he's been through the playoff run ringer before, the team is stronger with him.

Nice job, Walt.

And, I think there were people on here begging for him for last year, so that circle closes too.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 03:16 PM
Dusty is a good manager for a veteran plug-n-play ball club. He really hasn't had any other options for Stubbs/Bruce beside other young players. And Gomes has struggled badly post ASB as well and when you consider the awful defense he is as likely to hurt the team every bit as much as Stubbs or Bruce. Also throw in the fact that Janish has has no oppurtunity to play at all while Carbrera was healthy even though the data shows Cabrera is a liability at this point and should bat 8th if you have to play him. Instead he bats 2nd and yet as soon as Janish gets in the lineup he goes to 8th.

And yet, the team is in first by 2 games and everything is (seemingly) firing on all cylinders. He's got youngsters up and down the lineup, youngsters in key slots in the BP, and two rookies in the rotation.

When are the haters going to man up and admit Dusty Baker is doing a damn fine job this season?

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:18 PM
IIRC, the day following OC's injury, Janish started at SS and batted 2nd. People complained about him batting 2nd. Next day he batted 8th, people complained.Janish should bat 8th ... and so should Cabrera yet he has only 2 ABs in the 8 hole all year.

membengal
08-09-2010, 03:18 PM
I was advocating for the Reds to acquire Edmonds last year to platoon in LF. Hopefully this marks the beginning of the end for Johnny Gomes as a starter against RHPs. Playing the platoon splits and getting a plus defender for LF has to help this team going forward.

Dickerson was odd man out in an outfield that features young talent like Bruce, Stubbs and Heisey. At best, he's a 4th OF behind that trio.

Great move by Walt, IMO.

I had not read this far in the thread before I initially posted, CE, but you were likely the one I remember pushing for Edmonds a year ago. You had me convinced then. Good call.

durl
08-09-2010, 03:19 PM
I could be wrong here, but I would think that Carpenter would much rather see the names Heisey or Stubbs in the lineup tonight rather than Edmonds.

wheels
08-09-2010, 03:19 PM
I was silently hoping this would happen the other day. I quickly shuddered and forgot that I allowed myself to consider the notion.

The thing about Edmonds is that he's a guy you hate when he's on the other team. When he's on your team there is no denying what he could do on the field.

He's obviously not of that particular caliber anymore, but he's exactly what the club needs for this particular situation.

Good move by Walt.

JaxRed
08-09-2010, 03:21 PM
I wonder if the delay in the accompanying move means someone is coming off the 40 man roster? (being waived)

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:21 PM
And yet, the team is in first by 2 games and everything is (seemingly) firing on all cylinders. He's got youngsters up and down the lineup, youngsters in key slots in the BP, and two rookies in the rotation.

When are the haters going to man up and admit Dusty Baker is doing a damn fine job this season?the Reds are getting solid starting pitching and benefit from the abysmal central division (so do the Cards). The west coast Red swings have been the undoing of numerous Reds teams over the years. I'm waiting to see how they fare. These next 15 games will be very telling. I expect them to stay close to the Birds because St Louis just isn't that good. The Reds and the Birds have benefited from how awful the rest of the division really is.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:22 PM
Nix is 2-12 in his career off Carpenter, but he does have a HR so there's that.

With Garcia going tomorrow, you'll see Gomes in LF and either Stubbs or Heisey in CF.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:25 PM
I wonder if the delay in the accompanying move means someone is coming off the 40 man roster? (being waived)
There's no need. We're at 39.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:27 PM
With Garcia going tomorrow, you'll see Gomes in LF and either Stubbs or Heisey in CF.

Or Bruce sits.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:28 PM
someone has to be sent out, maybe they just haven't made up their mind yet.

TRF
08-09-2010, 03:28 PM
There's no need. We're at 39.

well someone needs to come off the 25 man roster right? has that been announced?

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:29 PM
well someone needs to come off the 25 man roster right? has that been announced?
Yes. And no.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:30 PM
well someone needs to come off the 25 man roster right? yes


has that been announced?not that I have seen. My guess is that it will be Francisco although that would leave them short in the infield.

_Sir_Charles_
08-09-2010, 03:30 PM
And yet, the team is in first by 2 games and everything is (seemingly) firing on all cylinders. He's got youngsters up and down the lineup, youngsters in key slots in the BP, and two rookies in the rotation.

When are the haters going to man up and admit Dusty Baker is doing a damn fine job this season?

I agree. The only thing I ever really question Dusty on is his lineups, but even that's worked out well this season. He should be right there at the top for NL Manager of the Year voting IMO.

JaxRed
08-09-2010, 03:30 PM
You can annouce that immediately. That fact that it hasn'y makes me suspect it might be more than just a Option move.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:30 PM
well someone needs to come off the 25 man roster right? has that been announced?

Maybe there's another trade in the works.

_Sir_Charles_
08-09-2010, 03:32 PM
Maybe there's another trade in the works.

This wouldn't surprise me. We've just dealt off one of our OF'er who were in a big clog...time for a starting pitcher. We simply don't have room for all of them once you add in Bailey & Aaron.

flyer85
08-09-2010, 03:34 PM
This wouldn't surprise me. We've just dealt off one of our OF'er who were in a big clog...time for a starting pitcher. We simply don't have room for all of them once you add in Bailey & Aaron.at this point it is hard to do anything more than tweaking because the quality of player just isn't available without an albatross of a contract.

medford
08-09-2010, 03:34 PM
Could just be waiting for the player in question to relay the info to his family so they know before they see it on the ESPN crawl. I assume the team and players involved know by this point. What time do they have to report to the ballpark?

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:36 PM
This wouldn't surprise me. We've just dealt off one of our OF'er who were in a big clog...time for a starting pitcher. We simply don't have room for all of them once you add in Bailey & Aaron.

By the way, did you think Part 2 of your signature prediction could be so on target when Part 1 was so off?

redsfan30
08-09-2010, 03:39 PM
The team would definetly be at the ballpark by now because I think home BP starts around 3:30 or 4:00.

Definetly odd that the corresponding move hasn't been announced yet.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 03:39 PM
From Mark Sheldon's blog:


*No 25-man roster move to make room for Edmonds has been revealed yet. Walt Jocketty and Edmonds are meeting with the media at 4 p.m. ET.

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/initial_thoughts_on_edmonds.html

CrackerJack
08-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Nothing wrong with the move to upgrade this year's talent....but, it's still Jim Edmonds.

I guess he still strikes me as being a Cardinal for life, so, I just have to shrug at it a bit...bitter sweet.

Just hard to argue with adding a .800+ OPS outfielder right now, they needed someone pretty badly. And maybe this will light a fire under some of the younger guys, who will also benefit from his approach/experience.

_Sir_Charles_
08-09-2010, 03:40 PM
By the way, did you think Part 2 of your signature prediction could be so on target when Part 1 was so off?

Well, if not for the injury, I still think Homer would've busted out. As for Jay...he certainly hasn't played badly. His low HR numbers are puzzling, but the improvement on the BA was expected IMO. I still think he'll get back on track and put up some really solid numbers by the end of the season.

But no. I thought this was a solid and deep team from the beginning. I thought we would've seen this type of run (to a lesser degree) LAST season if not for all the injuries.

hebroncougar
08-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Can't believe people are griping about this move. It's a classic move by a team in the middle of a pennant race, get a vet who has been there, done that, and has some left in the (see his stats this year), for a spare part. Kudos to Walt. I love the move. I could see Edmonds here next year, with Nix not here, or in Louisville if he can't find work on a ML roster.

camisadelgolf
08-09-2010, 03:43 PM
I wonder if the delay in the accompanying move means someone is coming off the 40 man roster? (being waived)
What if Brandon Phillips tears his achilles while stretching? What if Edmonds' plane wrecks on his way to Cincinnati? In either case, the Reds would have made a roster move for nothing. I'm guessing they're waiting on him to physically report before the official move comes.

15fan
08-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Wow... how's this effect 15fans moniker now?

Oh, the moniker will stay.

But I can't & won't root for Jim Edmonds. Ever. At anything. The fact that he is now dressing in the Home locker room at GABP does nothing to change my disdain for him.

I can only hope that he's a miserable failure during a brief stint in Cincinnati that results in his being cut loose before Labor Day. I hope that he completely misses the ball every time he swings the bat. I don't even want him to so much as to foul off a pitch. A complete whiff. Every time.

Given the option, I'd rather play the rest of the season with 24 men on the roster than give Edmonds a roster spot on my team. I would take any other player in the history of baseball before I would want Edmonds on my roster.

Jim Edmonds a Red. Wearing #15.

:rant2: :rant: :barf: :explode: :bang:

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 03:44 PM
From John Fay:

Stubbs out working on bunting. That means he's not getting shipped out. Looking more like Francisco. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

Chip R
08-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Oh, the moniker will stay.

But I can't & won't root for Jim Edmonds. Ever. At anything. The fact that he is now dressing in the Home locker room at GABP does nothing to change my disdain for him.

I can only hope that he's a miserable failure during a brief stint in Cincinnati that results in his being cut loose before Labor Day. I hope that he completely misses the ball every time he swings the bat. I don't even want him to so much as to foul off a pitch. A complete whiff. Every time.

Given the option, I'd rather play the rest of the season with 24 men on the roster than give Edmonds a roster spot on my team. I would take any other player in the history of baseball before I would want Edmonds on my roster.

Jim Edmonds a Red. Wearing #15.

:rant2: :rant: :barf: :explode: :bang:

So other than that, you're fine with the move? ;)

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:44 PM
So it's not Stubbs or Nix, it can't be Heisey, that leaves Francisco or Fisher.

Strikes Out Looking
08-09-2010, 03:45 PM
From John Fay:

Stubbs out working on bunting. That means he's not getting shipped out. Looking more like Francisco. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

Sherlock Fay strikes again.

westofyou
08-09-2010, 03:45 PM
Can't believe people are griping about this move. It's a classic move by a team in the middle of a pennant race, get a vet who has been there, done that, and has some left in the (see his stats this year), for a spare part. Kudos to Walt. I love the move. I could see Edmonds here next year, with Nix not here, or in Louisville if he can't find work on a ML roster.

http://morningjournal.com/articles/2010/08/01/sports/doc4c54ec7751cb5240516373.txt


In essence, Brewers outfielder Jim Edmonds announced his retirement Saturday night, effective at the end of the season.

He plans to go out with a bang, however.

"I知 going to play these last nine weeks like they池e my last," he said. "And we値l see how it goes."

Playing basically on one leg with an inflamed Achilles tendon that often leaves him in agony, the 40-year-old Edmonds, over his last 17 games, is batting .425 with 5 homers and 12 RBI.

Yet, barely able to run, Edmonds has difficulty imagining being able to play beyond this year.

"I知 not surprising myself," he said Edmonds. "I知 not here to sit on the bench or not help out. I知 going to play until I explode.

"I figure this is probably going to be the last nine weeks I get to play. I知 definitely not going to spend that on the DL if I don稚 have to. If I can still go out there and play, I知 going to play."

TRF
08-09-2010, 03:45 PM
Oh, the moniker will stay.

But I can't & won't root for Jim Edmonds. Ever. At anything. The fact that he is now dressing in the Home locker room at GABP does nothing to change my disdain for him.

I can only hope that he's a miserable failure during a brief stint in Cincinnati that results in his being cut loose before Labor Day. I hope that he completely misses the ball every time he swings the bat. I don't even want him to so much as to foul off a pitch. A complete whiff. Every time.

Given the option, I'd rather play the rest of the season with 24 men on the roster than give Edmonds a roster spot on my team. I would take any other player in the history of baseball before I would want Edmonds on my roster.

Jim Edmonds a Red. Wearing #15.

:rant2: :rant: :barf: :explode: :bang:

I hate seeing you internalize your feelings.

Let it out man.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:46 PM
So we have a guy who is barely able to run playing CF?

Sweet.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:47 PM
Well, if not for the injury, I still think Homer would've busted out. As for Jay...he certainly hasn't played badly. His low HR numbers are puzzling, but the improvement on the BA was expected IMO. I still think he'll get back on track and put up some really solid numbers by the end of the season.

But no. I thought this was a solid and deep team from the beginning. I thought we would've seen this type of run (to a lesser degree) LAST season if not for all the injuries.

Personally, I thought the success of the offense (and, in turn, the team) was tied mostly to Bruce's performance. If Bruce was killing it, I could see Cincy doing what they are doing now.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:47 PM
m_sheldon Travis Wood optioned to Triple-A Louisville to make room for Edmonds. #reds

WHAT??

hebroncougar
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
http://morningjournal.com/articles/2010/08/01/sports/doc4c54ec7751cb5240516373.txt

Maybe a pennant race can rejuvenate a guys competitive juices. Much, much different than playing out the string in Milwaukee. A great postseason can do it too.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
m_sheldon Travis Wood optioned to Triple-A Louisville to make room for Edmonds. #reds

WHAT??

2 off days coming up.

*BaseClogger*
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
I wish all the luck to Chris Denorfia (errr, Dickerson) in Milwaukee...

TRF
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
So Edmonds has an inflamed Achilles that leaves him in agony at times playing balls to the wall or Dickerson who goes on the 60 day dl when he gets a hangnail.

And I like Dickerson a lot, but he has trouble staying healthy.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
Travis Wood optioned to Louisville? What in the world are they thinking?

Blimpie
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
So we have a guy who is barely able to run playing CF?

Sweet.Yeah, but his dad was a solid contributor on the Big Red Machi....

Wait a minute--never mind.

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
m_sheldon Travis Wood optioned to Triple-A Louisville to make room for Edmonds. #reds

WHAT??

Homer Bailey -- out of options and in need of some role with the ballclub. They can shuffle the rotation appropriately.

Plus, with multiple off-days coming, they can work things out that way as well.

edabbs44
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
Travis Wood optioned to Louisville? What in the world are they thinking?

That they don't need a #5 for a while?

TRF
08-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Wood? that makes no sense.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:49 PM
That they don't need a #5 for a while?
Then send Leake out. Wood's been the teams best pitcher.

Blimpie
08-09-2010, 03:49 PM
m_sheldon Travis Wood optioned to Triple-A Louisville to make room for Edmonds. #reds

WHAT??Excuse me?

hebroncougar
08-09-2010, 03:49 PM
m_sheldon Travis Wood optioned to Triple-A Louisville to make room for Edmonds. #reds

WHAT??

That is crazy. I'd rather see Fisher go, let Leake pitch tonight, then option him for Chapman. Get Leake some rest.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Travis Wood has been our best starter (or close to it ) since he came up. He needs to be pitching every fifth day, IMO.

Redsfan320
08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Wow. Have been away from the computer since 9 last night. Then I come home to find this. I'm really not sure how I feel about it yet. I would say the sending Wood down thing is just for some additional bench help for a few days.

320

Caveat Emperor
08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Then send Leake out. Wood's been the teams best pitcher.

They still might do that as well if Bailey comes up and Francisco or Fisher goes down after the Cards series.

IslandRed
08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
What if Brandon Phillips tears his achilles while stretching? What if Edmonds' plane wrecks on his way to Cincinnati? In either case, the Reds would have made a roster move for nothing. I'm guessing they're waiting on him to physically report before the official move comes.

Beat me to it. I don't think they have to make the corresponding roster move until Edmonds reports.

As for who it's going to be -- I figure it has to be an outfielder. Maybe they could gotten away with Cairo backing up 2B-SS-3B a few days ago, but with Phillips still gimpy and Cabrera out, that's just stretching it too thin.

Edit: Well, I see it was Wood. Gotta figure this is just roster maneuvering, I don't expect to see him take the ball in Louisville.

medford
08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Leake goes tonight, so sending Leake down isn't an option. I guess send Wood down, Bailey comes up soon, then in 10 days you have to make a decision on someone when Wood comes back up.

reds44
08-09-2010, 03:50 PM
There BETTER be a phanton DL trip coming up so we can get Wood up here for his next start.

marcshoe
08-09-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm assuming he misses his next start but stays on schedule by starting for louisville. Can't do the same with Leake because today's his day?