What really happened

[Magdal]

Phillips tapped Molina on his shin guards with his bat, something players occasionally do as a greeting. Molina ignored him. He tapped Molina again and Molina cussed at him, BP cussed back. Phillips took his helmet off. Molina took his mask off.

After the statements he made to the media if I was a Cardinal catcher I would be miffed too. Draw your own conclusions.

[RedsFanInBama]

So basically, Molina was being a <female dog>.

[Reds2010Champs]

Phillips was in the wrong and Molina did what anyone would have done in that situation.

Molina did the right thing.

[GIDP]

What really happened was the Cardinals cry and moan about everything. Carpenter, Brenden Ryan, Lopez, Pujols, Molina, Rasmus. They all have complained about something the Reds have done this year. Phillips just told the truth.

Then Molina kicked the bat after Phillips went to tap his shin guards like he does every game.

Then chris carpenter came in after it was over and started yelling at Baker and pushed it even farther. I wouldnt be surprised if Carpenter dropped some slurs on Baker.

[RedsFanInBama]

Phillips was in the wrong and Molina did what anyone would have done in that situation.

Molina did the right thing.

You're not fooling anyone, poser.

[rolenmvp]

what actually happened was...molina started jawing at him, while he was doing his pre-game ritual with his bat and umpire thing and molina got up and start saying something to him and phillips responded.

[Vottomatic]

This thread is a joke right?

I taped the game and have watched it over and over. BP was taking warmup swings and Molina was jawing at him. Only when BP turned around did he really get upset and then take off his helmet.

Molina started it and pushed it, plain and simple.

It's ridiculous to think BP did anything wrong other than stand up for himself.

[Magdal]

This thread is a joke right?

I taped the game and have watched it over and over. BP was taking warmup swings and Molina was jawing at him. Only when BP turned around did he really get upset and then take off his helmet.

Molina started it and pushed it, plain and simple.

It's ridiculous to think BP did anything wrong other than stand up for himself.I respect your opinion Votto, but I think BP's statements to the press really initiated it. You don't slur someone and then try to get a high five from them.

[MikeThierry]

Actually, BP did tap Molina. Several players do it including Pujols as a sign of saying hello or what not. However, after his statements, I don't think any player would warm up to BP after he just slagged them in the media. It may have been an innocent thing on BP's part but he should have at least expected that it wouldn't have been welcomed.

[GIDP]

I respect your opinion Votto, but I think BP's statements to the press really initiated it. You don't slur someone and then try to get a high five from them.

Probably not but lets not act like the Reds have been the ones talking trash all year long. Reds have made 1 comments. Every starter from the Cardinals has basically said something along the lines of "Reds suck, we just havent been playing well, they suck, lucky, I eat babies because I'm a mental patient"

[Rijo's Ghost]

This isn't hard to dissect guys.

Yesterday Brandon calls the Cardinals and all of their players *****es.

Tonight, he tries to be cordial and give him the normal bat tap and Molina lets him know how he feels about him saying that. Molina basically told him to piss off and Brandon tried it again. Yadi gets in his face, Brandon takes his helmet off and yaps back.

Benches clear, etc.

Seriously, this is all on Brandon. It's pretty easy to see. The only thing Phillips has done is fire up the Cardinals and get Cueto suspended for 10 games.

[redlegs2370]

Phillips was in the wrong and Molina did what anyone would have done in that situation.

Molina did the right thing.

Molina should have been ejected, he is a knucklehead! Phillips did nothing wrong.

[bshall2105]

This isn't hard to dissect guys.

Yesterday Brandon calls the Cardinals and all of their players *****es.

Tonight, he tries to be cordial and give him the normal bat tap and Molina lets him know how he feels about him saying that. Molina basically told him to piss off and Brandon tried it again. Yadi gets in his face, Brandon takes his helmet off and yaps back.

Benches clear, etc.

Seriously, this is all on Brandon. It's pretty easy to see. The only thing Phillips has done is fire up the Cardinals and get Cueto suspended for 10 games.

Wait is Cueto really suspended?

[Rijo's Ghost]

Molina should have been ejected, he is a knucklehead! Phillips did nothing wrong.

There is nothing wrong with players jawing, neither should have been ejected. The only player that should have been ejected was Cueto.

[redlegs2370]

This isn't hard to dissect guys.

Yesterday Brandon calls the Cardinals and all of their players *****es.

Tonight, he tries to be cordial and give him the normal bat tap and Molina lets him know how he feels about him saying that. Molina basically told him to piss off and Brandon tried it again. Yadi gets in his face, Brandon takes his helmet off and yaps back.

Benches clear, etc.

Seriously, this is all on Brandon. It's pretty easy to see. The only thing Phillips has done is fire up the Cardinals and get Cueto suspended for 10 games.

There is no way this is on Phillips, Molina is a bum and should be suspended. He created all of this.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Wait is Cueto really suspended?

Not yet, but he's getting at least 10 games. There is no way he isn't. He was kicking another player in the back with his spikes for crying out loud. You just don't do that.

[MikeThierry]

Please, Molina is far from a knucklehead. He is one of the smartest field generals in baseball and is always a good sport. I can't tell you how many times he has helped guys up after they fall down from a pitch or fall down due to hitting a foul ball off their foot. In fact, I have never seen Molina get testy in a game before like he did tonight.

[Rijo's Ghost]

There is no way this is on Phillips, Molina is a bum and should be suspended. He created all of this.

Seriously? Use some objective reasoning and get back to me.

[bshall2105]

Not yet, but he's getting at least 10 games. There is no way he isn't. He was kicking another player in the back with his spikes for crying out loud. You just don't do that.

Carpenter's behavior was just as bad as Cueto's. People were restraining him and he was trying to get away, I don't see why that gets a suspension.

[redlegs2370]

There is nothing wrong with players jawing, neither should have been ejected. The only player that should have been ejected was Cueto.

Why should Cueto have been ejected? I was listening to the game on radio and Marty and Jeff didn't say anything. Carpenter should be suspended for the rest of the year. He is the one who really escalated things.

[Reds]

Not yet, but he's getting at least 10 games. There is no way he isn't. He was kicking another player in the back with his spikes for crying out loud. You just don't do that.

yeah, everyone who wants to see Homer is going to likely get a chance.

[MikeThierry]

Why should Cueto have been ejected? I was listening to the game on radio and Marty and Jeff didn't say anything. Carpenter should be suspended for the rest of the year. He is the one who really escalated things.

Lets not get crazy here. Carpenter should be suspended for a year? Are you kidding me? You are making it seem like he hit someone upside the head with a bat. Its just a player fight. The players involved will probably only get fined.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Why should Cueto have been ejected? I was listening to the game on radio and Marty and Jeff didn't say anything. Carpenter should be suspended for the rest of the year. He is the one who really escalated things.

Maybe for kicking Carpenter in the back and LaRue in the face wearing baseball spikes?

Nobody on either team threw punches or kicks except for Cueto. There's no way around that. It is fact.

[bshall2105]

Maybe for kicking Carpenter in the back and LaRue in the face wearing baseball spikes?

Nobody on either team threw punches or kicks except for Cueto. There's no way around that. It is fact.

If that was what had really happened it would have gotten much more out of hand. If somebody is going after you and the only thing you have are your legs what else are you supposed to do?

[Rijo's Ghost]

yeah, everyone who wants to see Homer is going to likely get a chance.

Thank you. It was just a heated scrum for the most part, but Cueto's actions were just insanely wrong and he's going to be suspended. I hate to say it, but 10 games probably isn't even enough. Kicking a man in the back with spikes and another in the face is just wrong. I know there aren't any written baseball fight rules, but he violated the unwritten ones. You don't use a bat, you don't use a ball and you don't use your spikes.

[MikeThierry]

Thank you. It was just a heated scrum for the most part, but Cueto's actions were just insanely wrong and he's going to be suspended. I hate to say it, but 10 games probably isn't even enough. Kicking a man in the back with spikes and another in the face is just wrong. I know there aren't any written baseball fight rules, but he violated the unwritten ones. You don't use a bat, you don't use a ball and you don't use your spikes.

mehh... he should be fined but I think 10 games is too harsh

[redlegs2370]

Maybe for kicking Carpenter in the back and LaRue in the face wearing baseball spikes?

Nobody on either team threw punches or kicks except for Cueto. There's no way around that. It is fact.

Carpenter helped escalate things. I just watched the highlights and didn't see anything wrong with what Cueto was doing. if Cueto is suspended and Carpenter isn't it is purely a double standard.

[Rijo's Ghost]

If that was what had really happened it would have gotten much more out of hand. If somebody is going after you and the only thing you have are your legs what else are you supposed to do?

Obviously you didn't see what happened. Yes, he did do that, and no, nobody was "after him."

[Rijo's Ghost]

Carpenter helped escalate things. I just watched the highlights and didn't see anything wrong with what Cueto was doing. if Cueto is suspended and Carpenter isn't it is purely a double standard.

Did Carpenter throw a punch or kick anyone?

No.

Did Cuteo throw a punch or kick anyone?

Yes.

It's that simple.

[Krawhitham]

Seriously? Use some objective reasoning and get back to me.

Phillips should not be hitting the catch with his bat, that is what started it

[texasdave]

I just watched the video, and to be honest it is kind of hard to tell. I am sure there are other angles and things will be sorted out. I think more than one player was throwing punches.

[Krawhitham]

mehh... he should be fined but I think 10 games is too harsh

pitchers get longer suspensions, that way you can not just pitch a day late

[bshall2105]

Obviously you didn't see what happened. Yes, he did do that, and no, nobody was "after him."

Don't you think he would have been ejected? They don't just allow you to play after something like that. I didn't see any gashes on Jason Larue's face, Chris Carpenter was being restrained by Scott Rolen and no harm was done to him. If no damage is done he's not getting 10 games.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Not yet, but he's getting at least 10 games. There is no way he isn't. He was kicking another player in the back with his spikes for crying out loud. You just don't do that.

Yah, I saw that, too. I don't know if it was a panic move from being pushed up against the netting or what but there's no excuse for kicking a guy like that.

[MikeThierry]

I think the players should be fined but suspension is a bit too harsh for either side.

[Krawhitham]

I just watched the video, and to be honest it is kind of hard to tell. I am sure there are other angles and things will be sorted out. I think more than one player was throwing punches.

I can not find Cueto kicking anyone, must be a different video feed somewhere

[MikeThierry]

It was clear that he was kicking LaRue

[bshall2105]

I can not find Cueto kicking anyone, must be a different video feed somewhere

Exactly I'm not seeing hit. He's just squirming trying to get away from the people holding him back.

[redlegs2370]

Exactly I'm not seeing hit. He's just squirming trying to get away from the people holding him back.

Exactly, he got pinned up against the wall. If he did anything he was trying to get away.

[Votto4MVP]

Some of you guys are idiots...cueto didnt kick anyone in the face.

[BurgervilleBuck]

I can not find Cueto kicking anyone, must be a different video feed somewhere

I saw it during the broadcast from an overhead camera shot. Cueto is kicking, it's clear as glass.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I saw it during the broadcast from an overhead camera shot. Cueto is kicking, it's clear as glass.

Yep. Carpenter in the back and then LaRue in the chest and throat/face. Plain as day.

[texasdave]

I just watched the MLB video again and Cueto had his back to the screen and was kicking someone. It did seem like it had quieted down after the initial fracas and Carpenter said something to Baker that flared things up again. I still see some punches being thrown but can't tell who it was.

I will add that Phillips comments had a lot to do with everything. You can't make those sorts of comments and not expect some kind of reaction.

[bshall2105]

OK I saw it on Sportscenter and a ton of people were throwing punches. Cueto was pinned against the net so he had to use his feet. He didn't make contact with anybody. He's not any more guilty than anyone else involved.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Some of you guys are idiots...cueto didnt kick anyone in the face.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100810&content_id=13276098&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb


Cueto might have connected his spikes in the face of Cardinals catcher Jason LaRue, who appeared to have a gash above his left eye.

[BurgervilleBuck]

OK I saw it on Sportscenter and a ton of people were throwing punches. Cueto was pinned against the net so he had to use his feet. He didn't make contact with anybody. He's not any more guilty than anyone else involved.
I'll agree with you that he was pinned against the net but you can see he, at least, made contact with Carpenter.

[MikeThierry]

I'm actually sort of changing my mind on this issue. I didn't think what Cueto did was that bad but if what TLR said after the game is true, Cueto might get a suspension. He said that LaRue had some facial lacerations and a minor concussion. If that's the case, than Cueto might sit a game.

[foxfire123]

I called this earlier in the season. Tension has been high with these two teams all year, and I just knew before the season was over, there would be a bench clearer. I suspect another will happen in St Louis.

[BurgervilleBuck]

I'm actually sort of changing my mind on this issue. I didn't think what Cueto did was that bad but if what TLR said after the game is true, Cueto might get a suspension. He said that LaRue had some facial lacerations and a minor concussion. If that's the case, than Cueto might sit a game.
The video that shows it best is the overhead shot where you can see Cueto kicking Carpenter. After that, it gets a little confusing but LaRue is out for blood (Hernandez is pulling him back). So either LaRue got kicked in the face or he saw Carpenter getting kicked and was going after Cueto.

Regardless, as much as we hate the Cards, guys, you don't kick.

[foxfire123]

There is nothing wrong with players jawing, neither should have been ejected. The only player that should have been ejected was Cueto.

Now, seriously, I couldn't tell for sure from what I saw, but was Cueto really kicking players, or did it just look like he was kicking because he was being pushed off his feet into the fence and over that wall?

[bgwilly31]

i bet Cueto gets suspended.

And maybe phillips and rolen.

i bet more reds get suspended than cards.

[Rijo's Ghost]

The only player near Cueto was Carpenter, who had his back to him. No Cardinal even confronted him until after he started kicking Carpenter in the back, when LaRue was kicked in the face with spikes.

Forget about the colors and names on the back and watch the video. Cueto is getting a really big fine and least 10 games. He was the only one to throw anything.

[GIDP]

what really happened was the Cardinals finally have something to complain about.

[wojo1025]

So, let me get this straight, Cueto was being pinned against the netting and he's suppose to just relax and take it? Hell no, he started kicking and defending himself the only way possible.

The initial problem started because BP tapped Molina, which he shouldn't have done to someone he "hates" .. and Molina and BP started chirping. Everything was cooling down until Carpenter got involved. The maylay that took place after that is all on Carpenter.

No Cardinal confronted Cueto until he started kicking? What?! He didn't start kicking until he was pinned against the netting, c'mon troll, get it right

[foxfire123]

Now, be honest. As much as I'd personally like to, you can't put all the blame on Molina, Brandon did start this with the remarks. He knew that it would cause a reaction, unfortunately it also backfired on him.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Now, seriously, I couldn't tell for sure from what I saw, but was Cueto really kicking players, or did it just look like he was kicking because he was being pushed off his feet into the fence and over that wall?

No, he really kicked Carpenter in the back like 3 times and then LaRue in the face and chest.

Those were the only punches/kicks thrown.

[stevekun]

Ahh yes the phantom kick in the face. Anyone see it on video? Didnt think so.

Maybe next time Carpenter will think twice before he jumps in a fight thats not his to fight.

[GIDP]

LaRues terrible D finally comes back to bite him.

[Rijo's Ghost]

So, let me get this straight, Cueto was being pinned against the netting and he's suppose to just relax and take it? Hell no, he started kicking and defending himself the only way possible.

The initial problem started because BP tapped Molina, which he shouldn't have done to someone he "hates" .. and Molina and BP started chirping. Everything was cooling down until Carpenter got involved. The maylay that took place after that is all on Carpenter.

No Cardinal confronted Cueto until he started kicking? What?! He didn't start kicking until he was pinned against the netting, c'mon troll, get it right

I'm no troll man. Watch it again. The only Cardinal player even close to Cueto was Carpenter, who had his backed turned. And Cueto started kicking him in the back. There were 2-3 other players up against the net who weren't kicking.

Johnny is getting at least 10 games and will likely be the only one suspended. No favoritism, just what happened. Unfortunate too, because losing our best pitcher for 2 starts is not good.

[wojo1025]

To be clear, you can see that once Cueto gets tossed into the netting he starts kicking, the camera then pans to Carpenter who is glaring back at Cueto and then shows Hernandez restraining LaRue who is also glaring towards JC. It's obvious he connected with them

@Rijo - so Cueto threw HIMSELF into the first row? That's a weird way to fight. Please dont say "our" when you're obviously see things through Cardinal colored glasses

[David Cubbedge]

Jason LaRue was not concussed.

He can be seen clearly saying "Suck our (explitive) you c-suckers." He said this sitting right next to his buddy Chris Carpenter right after Rasmus made that great catch in CF against Ramon Hernandez.

[texasdave]

The whole initial dustup had settled down until Carpenter mouthed off. He said something to Baker and you can clearly see Dusty saying back to Carpenter 'bleep you' and the umpire was also telling Carpenter to cool it. That much is obvious too. But Cueto was kicking at someone. I still see other punches being thrown. I just cannot tell who or if they connected.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Please dont say "our" when you're obviously see things through Cardinal colored glasses
He's not. He's looking at it objectively as any rational person should. To kick someone while you're wearing cleats is a low-class move, regardless of whether Cueto was getting pushed into the netting or not.

[knoonan991]

If there is anything that this shows me, it's that the MLB in general blows thing way out of proportion.

Look at Chad Ochocinco and what he says, it's seen as harmless banter that shows his competitive edge.

Yadier could've simply shut Phillips up with strong play (unfortunately he played well tonight).

[Señor Rojo]

The whole initial dustup had settled down until Carpenter mouthed off. He said something to Baker and you can clearly see Dusty saying back to Carpenter 'bleep you' and the umpire was also telling Carpenter to cool it. That much is obvious too. But Cueto was kicking at someone. I still see other punches being thrown. I just cannot tell who or if they connected.

Funny thing is Carpenter tried to play up being the victim when he was interviewed by the media. He claimed that Rolen came out to pull people away from him when Scott was clearly going after him. Carpenter also singled out Cueto and said "I don't know where he learned to fight." Rolen obviously has something against Carpenter and it showed in the brawl.

[10xWSChamps]

I think the key thing here (beyond Phillips' comments of course) is that Brandon tried to tap MOlina's leg twice. If you look, the first time he tried to tap his leg Molina kicked his bat away and just stood there. But then as Brandon was turning he tried to tap his leg again after Molina had kicked his bat away. Molina would have been fine being ignored but Phillips was egging him on, especially with the second bat tap.

Brandon knew what he was doing, this is his M.O. It is ludicrous to blame this on the Cardinals or any of our players.

[Rijo's Ghost]

@Rijo - so Cueto threw HIMSELF into the first row? That's a weird way to fight. Please dont say "our" when you're obviously see things through Cardinal colored glasses

What? I just don't think that all the Reds are right. Only one player threw a kick or punch. That was Cueto.

The first person into the screen was Carpenter with Suppan holding onto him. It's plain as day man.

The bottom line to everything is that this doesn't happen without Brandon running his mouth. And what has he accomplished with it? He's like 1-9, we've lost 2 straight in the biggest series of the season and if you look at things objectively he cost us our ace for at least 2 starts.

[wojo1025]

He's not. He's looking at it objectively as any rational person should. To kick someone while you're wearing cleats is a low-class move, regardless of whether Cueto was getting pushed into the netting or not.

That's true, when you're in a fight and you're being restrained against the fence you're suppose to just lay there and take it, my mistake

[10xWSChamps]

Jason LaRue was not concussed.

He can be seen clearly saying "Suck our (explitive) you c-suckers." He said this sitting right next to his buddy Chris Carpenter right after Rasmus made that great catch in CF against Ramon Hernandez.


I just listened to LaRussa say Jason had a mild concussion

[Krawhitham]

He's not. He's looking at it objectively as any rational person should. To kick someone while you're wearing cleats is a low-class move, regardless of whether Cueto was getting pushed into the netting or not.

Cueto claims he was pinned against the fence and was afraid of being hurt so he started kicking to get himself out of harms way

[wojo1025]

Cueto claims he was pinned against the fence and was afraid of being hurt so he started kicking to get himself out of harms way

Blasphemy. He was suppose to just take it, you know, those are the rules when it comes to fighting. The Cardinals didn't do anything wrong at all. This entire mess is on BP, Cueto, Rolen, and Baker .. can't you read?

Cueto will be suspended the rest of the season while Carp and Molina are automatically given the NL MVP award

[GIDP]

I just listened to LaRussa say Jason had a mild concussion

Larussa also had no idea Jose and Mark were juicing. Hmmm...

[Krawhitham]

I just listened to LaRussa say Jason had a mild concussion

and LaRussa never lies

[Krawhitham]

Larussa also had no idea Jose and Mark were juicing. Hmmm...

and LaRussa never lies :)

[Rijo's Ghost]

Funny thing is Carpenter tried to play up being the victim when he was interviewed by the media. He claimed that Rolen came out to pull people away from him when Scott was clearly going after him. Carpenter also singled out Cueto and said "I don't know where he learned to fight." Rolen obviously has something against Carpenter and it showed in the brawl.

Here's a picture for you that might explain things. Carpenter isn't in the photo, but he's the one Rolen is standing and talking to, not fighting.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j170/ey1353/brawl.jpg

No way those 2 are going to be left alone if the intentions were as you stated.

Scott is a smart guy. He knows that Brandon started the whole chain of events and the last thing he wanted was for things to escalate like they did. He intimated as much in his postgame comments.

[10xWSChamps]

Yeah you guys are right, LaRussa probably made up the concussion story for the hell of it.

[redlegs2370]

Obviously the Reds coaches and players took the high road and didn't start blaming people. Tony LaRusa, Molina, and Carpenter all took shots at the Reds players and blamed the Reds. The guy I really feel sorry for is Dusty. It is obvious that Carpenter said something to Dusty and the Reds players took to his defense. The way Carpenter went towards Dusty and what he said about Cueto it would appear as if it could be racism.

[wojo1025]

Ok troll, now show the next scene where Dusty Baker is walking off the field and Carpenter walks around everyone to say something to him which caused Dusty to react by cursing at Carp and then everything went to hell again

[10xWSChamps]

I think Scott just pulled Chris away because he was probably one of only two players on the Reds that Chris wasn't going to really escalate things with.

[DocRed]

The REAL instigator in all this is Carpenter. Whether you blame Molina or BP...the situation was all but diffused and the game would have continued.....that is until Carp opens his big fat mouth and starts yelling at Dusty.

[redlegs2370]

Yeah you guys are right, LaRussa probably made up the concussion story for the hell of it.

I can see that, he has no control over his players actions. They took the Phillips comments way to serious.

[10xWSChamps]

Ok troll, now show the next scene where Dusty Baker is walking off the field and Carpenter walks around everyone to say something to him which caused Dusty to react by cursing at Carp and then everything went to hell again

Dusty isn't exactly the most level-headed man in the world either.

I don't think anyone will ever know what really went on or what was said down there. But I think we should be able to agree that none of this would have ever happened without Brandon Phillips' comments and actions

[Krawhitham]

Yeah you guys are right, LaRussa probably made up the concussion story for the hell of it.

or to try and get Ceuto a longer suspension

If LaRue had a concussion he would not be back on the bench within minutes and never leave

[GIDP]

Carpenter went after Dusty to start the fight back up.

[wojo1025]

So when Votto said he hates the Cubs - why wasn't there a fight in their next meeting? He was seen chatting w/Cubs players at 1st base, shouldn't that have resulted in a fight too?

[Krawhitham]

Carpenter went after Dusty to start the fight back up.

This

Watch the video and believe

[texasdave]

The REAL instigator in all this is Carpenter. Whether you blame Molina or BP...the situation was all but diffused and the game would have continued.....that is until Carp opens his big fat mouth and starts yelling at Dusty.


True. And whatever he said to Baker really ticked Dusty off. Dusty dropped a couple of quick verbal F-bombs in his direction. Even the umpire was looking at Carpenter telling him to shut up.

[Krawhitham]

So when Votto said he hates the Cubs - why wasn't there a fight in their next meeting? He was seen chatting w/Cubs players at 1st base, shouldn't that have resulted in a fight too?

He did not call them whinny little *****es?

[10xWSChamps]

I can see that, he has no control over his players actions. They took the Phillips comments way to serious.

Seriously? I don't think I've ever heard of a baseball player saying something as inflammatory as what Brandon did. Have you? If so, could you give me the quote?

Obviously I didn't like the comments as a Cards fan... but on another level I loved them. This is what rivalries are made of

[redlegs2370]

The REAL instigator in all this is Carpenter. Whether you blame Molina or BP...the situation was all but diffused and the game would have continued.....that is until Carp opens his big fat mouth and starts yelling at Dusty.

You are right on the money Doc, and just watching the interview he knows it. Whatever he said the Reds players obviously took offense to.

[wojo1025]

True. And whatever he said to Baker really ticked Dusty off. Dusty dropped a couple of quick verbal F-bombs in his direction. Even the umpire was looking at Carpenter telling him to shut up.

This. You can see, while Dusty is cursing at Carp, that the ump doesn't say anything to Baker - his full attention is towards Carpenter and trying to get him to stop talking

[Rijo's Ghost]

Ok troll, now show the next scene where Dusty Baker is walking off the field and Carpenter walks around everyone to say something to him which caused Dusty to react by cursing at Carp and then everything went to hell again
I'm not trolling man. Why is it so hard to see things from a position where laundry doesn't matter? Did Carpenter come around and jaw at Baker? Absolutely!

There is a difference between jawing/shoving and kicking guys in the back and chest/face with spikes.

Did anyone other than Johnny Cueto throw a punch or a kick?
No!

Were there any Cardinal players around Cueto when he was against the net, other than Carpenter with his back turned?
No!

It's all there on video man.

7-8 guys will get fined and Johnny will get at least a 10 game suspension. He will likely be the only player to be suspended, and it won't be due to "Cardinals favoritism."

[10xWSChamps]

or to try and get Ceuto a longer suspension

If LaRue had a concussion he would not be back on the bench within minutes and never leave

LaRue did leave for a few innings and when he came back he was not dressed anymore. LaRue wasn't an option for a replacement at that point, I imagine because of the mild concussion.

[redlegs2370]

Seriously? I don't think I've ever heard of a baseball player saying something as inflammatory as what Brandon did. Have you? If so, could you give me the quote?

Obviously I didn't like the comments as a Cards fan... but on another level I loved them. This is what rivalries are made of

As a Cardinals fan can you explain why McGwire doesn't look as big and strong when he played?

[wojo1025]

I 100% disagree with you, but that's obvious. Cueto did NOT throw himself into the first row and I highly doubt his teammates did. So, by process of elimination, someone from St. Louis had their hands on Johnny and he responded the way people respond in fights. Not everyone keeps their cool when they're in the middle of a fight and I, for one, do not fault Cueto for reacting the way he did.

Should he have kicked them w/his spikes, absolutely not .. should he have defended himself however he deemed necessary - 100% for certain.

So you can keep saying that no Cardinals were around him, he just started kicking, but you'll have to explain to me how he ended up in the Diamond Seats.

[Rijo's Ghost]

As a Cardinals fan can you explain why McGwire doesn't look as big and strong when he played?

Not a Cardinals fan, but I'm going to guess it's because McGwire openly admitted to using steroids.

Can we explain why Volquez hasn't been very good during his comeback?

Stones, glass houses, etc.

[TStuck]

Yep...the "bad" part of this whole mess rests firmly on Carpenter's shoulders. Things were calming down and the umpires were sorting things out when Carpenter started yelling at Baker causing things to erupt. Gas on a fire. As far as Cueto kicking, it was clear he was backed up against the backstop and pinned there with the crush coming at him. I'd start using my legs to get people away from me too. Ever heard of self preservation?? Not like he was out there running around Kung-fu fighting taking drop kicks at people. Carpenter had no business in the middle of things. Zero None. Nada. He was an instigator and should be punished accordingly. In my eyes this just adds to his already epic Cry Baby status in MLB.

On a side note, I'm glad to see the Reds are a hot enough topic that we have Cardinal fans trolling our discussion board!

[10xWSChamps]

As a Cardinals fan can you explain why McGwire doesn't look as big and strong when he played?

McGwire took steriods, can you explain what that has to do with tonight's events?

[Krawhitham]

I'm not trolling man. Why is it so hard to see things from a position where laundry doesn't matter? Did Carpenter come around and jaw at Baker? Absolutely!

There is a difference between jawing/shoving and kicking guys in the back and chest/face with spikes.

Did anyone other than Johnny Cueto throw a punch or a kick?
No!

Were there any Cardinal players around Cueto when he was against the net, other than Carpenter with his back turned?
No!

It's all there on video man.

7-8 guys will get fined and Johnny will get at least a 10 game suspension. He will likely be the only player to be suspended, and it won't be due to "Cardinals favoritism."

The will get one from each team, Cueto and Carpenter most likely. If they just get Cueto you will have media spinning it that MLB just handed the Cards the division

[wojo1025]

Not a Cardinals fan, but I'm going to guess it's because McGwire openly admitted to using steroids.

Can we explain why Volquez hasn't been very good during his comeback?

Stones, glass houses, etc.

So Volquez's steroid use helped him throw strikes? Pretty sure he's had electric stuff but his control's been off troll. Stay on topic please or start another trolling topic

[redlegs2370]

I'm not trolling man. Why is it so hard to see things from a position where laundry doesn't matter? Did Carpenter come around and jaw at Baker? Absolutely!

There is a difference between jawing/shoving and kicking guys in the back and chest/face with spikes.

Did anyone other than Johnny Cueto throw a punch or a kick?
No!

Were there any Cardinal players around Cueto when he was against the net, other than Carpenter with his back turned?
No!

It's all there on video man.

7-8 guys will get fined and Johnny will get at least a 10 game suspension. He will likely be the only player to be suspended, and it won't be due to "Cardinals favoritism."
I watched the video over 20 times and if Cueto is suspended any amount of games and Carpenter is not I will agree with you will not be "Cardinals favoritism" it will be because of racism.

[texasdave]

There is a difference between jawing/shoving and kicking guys in the back and chest/face with spikes.

While normally I would agree with this, I will have to say if a racial epithet or two was hurled then all bets are off. Now I don't know what was said, obviously, I am just saying that would be an exception to the general rule.

[David Cubbedge]

Watch the very end of this clip when Rasmus makes his catch. The last few seconds, you see LaRue and Carpenter sitting next to eachother. LaRue is perfectly fine, not a scratch on his face. Not concussed and able to be excited and tell Hernandez to suck their (male parts) you c-sucker.

No way LaRue has any lingering effects.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10821373&query=%26game_pk%3D265499

[Rijo's Ghost]

I 100% disagree with you, but that's obvious. Cueto did NOT throw himself into the first row and I highly doubt his teammates did. So, by process of elimination, someone from St. Louis had their hands on Johnny and he responded the way people respond in fights. Not everyone keeps their cool when they're in the middle of a fight and I, for one, do not fault Cueto for reacting the way he did.

Should he have kicked them w/his spikes, absolutely not .. should he have defended himself however he deemed necessary - 100% for certain.

So you can keep saying that no Cardinals were around him, he just started kicking, but you'll have to explain to me how he ended up in the Diamond Seats.
Of course he didn't throw himself into the net. He was pushed back by the scrum. It's there on video. The scrum moved towards the net and Johnny was behind it. That's just what happens.

If you really can't watch the video and see what he did was wrong I'll take screencaps, but I think you know better than that. Just be objective for about 30 seconds and watch what happened.

[Krawhitham]

So Volquez's steroid use helped him throw strikes? Pretty sure he's had electric stuff but his control's been off troll. Stay on topic please or start another trolling topic

we have no idea how long Volquez was on steroids, people just assume it was used to get healthy.

Volquez has had just 6 good months as a pitcher, and maybe that was all due to roids

[wojo1025]

Of course he didn't throw himself into the net. He was pushed back by the scrum. It's there on video. The scrum moved towards the net and Johnny was behind it. That's just what happens.

If you really can't watch the video and see what he did was wrong I'll take screencaps, but I think you know better than that. Just be objective for about 30 seconds and watch what happened.

So when he was pinned against the screen he should have .... done what exactly? Gone into the fetal position?

[redlegs2370]

McGwire took steriods, can you explain what that has to do with tonight's events?

Yep Carpenter is attacking Dusty and Cueto & Molina went after Phillips. It appears to me to be racially motivated by certain members of the Cardinals. That is my explanation!

[Rijo's Ghost]

So Volquez's steroid use helped him throw strikes? Pretty sure he's had electric stuff but his control's been off troll. Stay on topic please or start another trolling topic

What are you talking about?

I didn't bring it up, nor say that it helped him throw strikes. Using steroids is using steroids.

[GIDP]

did anyone make a LaRue defense joke yet?

[Griffey012]

My observations from trying to dissect the whole fiasco.

The Phillips incident was pretty childish as Yadier obviously wanted no part of the leg tapping, the 2nd tap was definitely to egg him on. The ensuing argument should have been an argument and that was it...the benches didn't need to clear on either side. Once things were settled Yadier and Phillips both didn't really have any part of the rest of the fiasco.

LaRussa and Dusty spatting at each other, both are stinking MANAGERS, both were deservedly suspended.

I am really confused as to what Carpenter said to Baker to set off Rolen like that. With Rolen being a peacemaker throughout I can only imagine it was something pretty bad, potentially racist.

However is really weird watching Carpenter and Rolen and a couple Cards coaches around the 1:55 mark all standing at peace.

Cueto was pinned up against the fence/net, pretty scary with an ensuing mob coming toward you, definitely looked like self defense at first, but here was definitely extra kicking involved and what appeared to be kicking at LaRue/Carpenter. LaRue was stuck in between Carpenter and Rolen the whole time.

Phillips is at fault for the initial bench clearing, both coaches and Carpenter are responsible for the melee up against the backstop. I don't really see much else to discuss about it, both teams were at fault for different things. It was no one single person's fault.

[Krawhitham]

Watch the very end of this clip when Rasmus makes his catch. The last few seconds, you see LaRue and Carpenter sitting next to eachother. LaRue is perfectly fine, not a scratch on his face. Not concussed and able to be excited and tell Hernandez to suck their (male parts) you c-sucker.

No way LaRue has any lingering effects.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10821373&query=%26game_pk%3D265499

His face looks fine

[10xWSChamps]

Yep Carpenter is attacking Dusty and Cueto & Molina went after Phillips. It appears to me to be racially motivated by certain members of the Cardinals. That is my explanation!



Please tell me this is a joke!

[GIDP]

LaRue caught more things thrown his direction tonight than he did in his entire Reds career.

[texasdave]

LaRue caught more things thrown his direction tonight than he did in his entire Reds career.

You have been dying to say that. :)

[Krawhitham]

You have been dying to say that. :)

but it's true

[David Cubbedge]

I hate Felipe Lopez and Jason laRue the most in this whole thing. Yes, Brandon Phillips started the whole thing. I don't blame Molina (until he mocked BP around the bases after the HR.) I'm happy to see the fire in both teams, but ultimately Cueto was dead wrong in the end.

Carpenter and Larussa are babies. LaRue and Lopez are instigators, and Cueto lost his mind. That's clearly it. Now hopefully the right guys get their punitive action coming to them.

What pisses me off the most about the Cards though is that they continued to cry after the game.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I watched the video over 20 times and if Cueto is suspended any amount of games and Carpenter is not I will agree with you will not be "Cardinals favoritism" it will be because of racism.

Now, watch it again and tell me how many punches or kicks Carpenter threw.


Now, watch it again and tell me how many punches or kicks Cueto threw.


Now, tell me if there is a difference between me calling you an ******* and kicking you in the back three times and then your friend in the chest/face 4 times.


I'm defending the Cardinals because it's right. Phillips started it with talk and Cueto is the only one to throw a punch or kick. Talking is one thing, physical violence is another. It's all there on video.

[GIDP]

Weird that LaRue had trouble blocking something with out his catching gear on for once.

[wojo1025]

I would love for you guys to get involved in a 25 on 25 fight and you get pinned against a wall and see how you react. Cueto reacted in the heat of battle, sorry he didn't pat people on the back and ask them nicely to let him down.

[GIDP]

Jason LaRue wanted to throw a punch but was afraid it would have landed somewhere near a center fielder.

[Griffey012]

I hate Felipe Lopez and Jason laRue the most in this whole thing. Yes, Brandon Phillips started the whole thing. I don't blame Molina (until he mocked BP around the bases after the HR.) I'm happy to see the fire in both teams, but ultimately Cueto was dead wrong in the end.

Carpenter and Larussa are babies. LaRue and Lopez are instigators, and Cueto lost his mind. That's clearly it. Now hopefully the right guys get their punitive action coming to them.

What pisses me off the most about the Cards though is that they continued to cry after the game.

Sorry I don't see where LaRue was an instigator in this. It was clearly Carpenter who was mouthing off something to Dusty, LaRue was trying to stop Rolen from charging Carpenter than ended up in the middle of those two 6'5 guys.

[DocRed]

Jason LaRue wanted to throw a punch but was afraid it would have landed somewhere near a center fielder.

Jason Larue was looking for Rhodes or Edmonds, so he could actually fight someone older than him. Actually nm...both woulda kicked his ***.

[wojo1025]

And I do agree that it was very strange to see Rolen grab Carpenter and drag him around only to end up standing together at the end seemingly calm/peaceful. Almost make you wonder if Rolen grabbed Carp and the mob ran up on them causing them to sprawl backwards! Maybe Rolen wasn't trying to attack Carpenter, maybe he was trying to, as a former teammate, get him away from Dusty.

When it's all said and done, I blame Jim Edmonds. None of this happened til he joined the club

[KOBasinger]

All Cueto was doing was defending himself. I can't blame him for what he was doing. I'd be doing the same thing if not worse.

I'm glad the umpires didn't eject any of the players as it really wasn't anybody's fault.

Players from both sides obviously were at fault.

Rolen already had my respect but wow. He showed a lot during the whole altercation. Props to Scotty. Although I didn't get the whole thing with him, Carpenter and the coaches near the end of it. Can anybody explain that one?:confused:

Funny thing is, I was walking inside the stadium when it first started.

[David Cubbedge]

LaRue and Carpenter were egging eachother on when the whole thing started. Carpenter kept trying to get in their to gets words in when Larussa and Dusty were going at it.

I agree, Carpenter is both a baby and an instigator. I call LaRue an instigator because he was only between Carpenter and Rolen because he was trying to help his buddy. I have no problem with that. But the jabbing afterward was ridiculous.

Notice in the video I posted that LaRue did have his jersey on as well. So whoever said he didn't and that he was unavailable to come in the game was wrong.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I would love for you guys to get involved in a 25 on 25 fight and you get pinned against a wall and see how you react. Cueto reacted in the heat of battle, sorry he didn't pat people on the back and ask them nicely to let him down.

I understand that, but it doesn't excuse his actions. In the entire melee he was the only one that reacted violently and he did it in a cheap way (kicking a guy in the back with baseball spikes.) I really don't know how anyone can defend his actions. Seriously, until he kicked Carpenter in the back, there were no Cardinals around him, other than Carpenter who had his back to him. And this was while he was against the net. It's all there on video.

Look, none of us want Cueto suspended and we all want to believe he was right. But realistically, we all know that's not true and he's the only person that can be easily suspended. It was stupid and he deserves to pay for it.

Sadly it all comes down to Brandon running his mouth.

[GIDP]

Id be honestly surprised if anyone gets suspended more than 6 games. Cueto probably gets 6. Same for Carpenter.

Phillips and Molina probably get 1.

[Griffey012]

Any Pacers fans on here that had flashbacks to the malice at the palace? I know I did when the mob went towards the front row.

[wojo1025]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[DocRed]

Where the hell were the Reds fans behind home plate? Surely someone coulda poured a beer on Carp!?!?

[10xWSChamps]

I have to say that Molina's home run was one of the most fun moments I've ever had as a Cardinals fan.

Personally I love all this stuff, the Cardinals need a rival who is actually good

[GIDP]

Lopez, Rasmus, Pujols, and Carpenter have been running their mouths all year. 1 Reds player says something and its all his fault all of a sudden. :laugh:

[wojo1025]

I have to say that Molina's home run was one of the most fun moments I've ever had as a Cardinals fan.

Personally I love all this stuff, the Cardinals need a rival who is actually good

Yeah, you should be proud

[10xWSChamps]

Lopez, Rasmus, Pujols, and Carpenter have been running their mouths all year. 1 Reds player says something and its all his fault all of a sudden. :laugh:

What have any of those guys said this year? I know Carpenter and Pujols have had their stupid comments before but I hadn't heard one thing this year. I have no idea either way about Lopez.

And Rasmus? I've seen a couple people here calling Rasmus cocky and I honestly do not understand that. If anything, Rasmus is shy and reserved. What has he ever said?

[Natty Redlocks]

This sucks. I'd rather be rooting for the team that's b***h-slapping the team that started it all with juvenile name-calling.

[Griffey012]

This sucks. I'd rather be rooting for the team that's b***h-slapping the team that started it all with juvenile name-calling.

Not gonna lie, the Reds were a bit embarrassing with their play tonight especially after all that mess.

[KOBasinger]

I also wanna know what the hell Carpenter said to Dusty to make him so ticked off. Carpenter was just on BT saying how bad of a person Cueto was. Obviously the guy wasn't looking at himself in the first place.

UGH!!!!

[wojo1025]

Not gonna lie, the Reds were a bit embarrassing with their play tonight especially after all that mess.

I thought Mr. Gomes put on an excellent Manny Ramirez impression in LF tonight. Adam Dunn was watching and thinking he looked like a gold glover compared to Mr. Gomes this evening!

And Mr. Edmonds, nice base running.

[GIDP]

What have any of those guys said this year? I know Carpenter and Pujols have had their stupid comments before but I hadn't heard one thing this year. I have no idea either way about Lopez.

And Rasmus? I've seen a couple people here calling Rasmus cocky and I honestly do not understand that. If anything, Rasmus is shy and reserved. What has he ever said?

Pujols flipped on Masset for striking him out and pumping his fist.

Carpenter throws a fit every chance he gets. Dont even play it off like its unbelieveable that hes said stuff. He complains about "slippery" balls. He is just a chump in general.

Lopez said earlier this year that the Reds arent good and are playing over their head, and if the Cardinals were healthy they would be up by 5 games or some junk

Rasmus basically echoed Lopez.

[Griffey012]

I thought Mr. Gomes but on an excellent Manny Ramirez impression in LF tonight. Adam Dunn was watching and thinking he looked like a gold glover compared to Mr. Gomes this evening!

And Mr. Edmonds, nice base running.

And Heisey barehanding a fast rolling grounder, Votto simply not focusing on scooping the ball with his glove. Ondrusek throwing the ball around like a 7 year old. And I am probably forgetting some more.

[wojo1025]

Agreed ... the 'bonehead play of the night' had many many choices this evening.

[Krawhitham]

What have any of those guys said this year? I know Carpenter and Pujols have had their stupid comments before but I hadn't heard one thing this year. I have no idea either way about Lopez.

And Rasmus? I've seen a couple people here calling Rasmus cocky and I honestly do not understand that. If anything, Rasmus is shy and reserved. What has he ever said?

Carpenter was *****ing about the balls being rubbed wrong at GABP

Albert was *****ing about Masset pumping his fist after getting a big 3rd out (and then Albert pumps his fist the next game because he got an RBI)

Lopez bad mouthed the whole Reds team earlier this season

I have no idea about Rasmus

[Rijo's Ghost]

I also wanna know what the hell Carpenter said to Dusty to make him so ticked off. Carpenter was just on BT saying how bad of a person Cueto was. Obviously the guy wasn't looking at himself in the first place.

UGH!!!!

Who knows what he said, but I certainly hope that people don't really think he actually used a racial epithet, like a couple people in this thread surmised.

Even suggesting a guy did that is abhorrent in my opinion.

[wojo1025]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[Krawhitham]

Who knows what he said, but I certainly hope that people don't really think he actually used a racial epithet, like a couple people in this thread surmised.

Even suggesting a guy did that is abhorrent in my opinion.

What could you say to make someone that mad that quick, both Dusty and Rolen when from being clam to 110% rage in less than a second

It was either racial or someone said something about someone mom

[redlegs2370]

Please tell me this is a joke!

No I wasn't joking that is what it appears to me.

[GIDP]

Oh lets add the time Dave Duncan accused Arroyo of using pine tar or something on his balls.

Seriously lets not act like the Cardinals dont do their fair share of whining and bad mouthing of the Reds.

So by my count its at least 7 for the Cardinals and 1 for the Reds. Of course the Reds are the bad guys because Phillips is "flashy". Should just be a red neck basket case cry baby and you might be looked at as the victim.

[wojo1025]

Honestly, and maybe it shouldn't have been, but the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw Dusty's reaction was "Carp must've dropped a racial bomb" ... but he wouldn't do that with all of the African-American's on the Cardinals team that he'd have to face in the clubhouse. After all, there is ......

[texasdave]

Who knows what he said, but I certainly hope that people don't really think he actually used a racial epithet, like a couple people in this thread surmised.

Even suggesting a guy did that is abhorrent in my opinion.

Just like you keep saying over and over...go look at the video. The reaction of Baker was both immediate and visceral. You can clearly reads his lips. You saw the reaction of Rolen who was calm at that point. I am thinking it wasn't your run-of-the-mill jawing back and forth.

[Griffey012]

Honestly, and maybe it shouldn't have been, but the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw Dusty's reaction was "Carp must've dropped a racial bomb" ... but he wouldn't do that with all of the African-American's on the Cardinals team that he'd have to face in the clubhouse. After all, there is ......

Randy Winn...

[GIDP]

Carpenter had to have said something to get that reaction. I'm not going to say it was race related but there was something to get that response from Rolen and Votto.

[Magdal]

LaRues terrible D finally comes back to bite him.LOL! Good one.:beerme:

[redlegs2370]

Who knows what he said, but I certainly hope that people don't really think he actually used a racial epithet, like a couple people in this thread surmised.

Even suggesting a guy did that is abhorrent in my opinion.

Like you said in your opinion. I just said that is what it appears to be racially motivated. Why would the players snap like that after Carpenter said what he said to Dusty. If Carpenter is a real man and wants to describe what happened why doesn't he back up and tell the media what he said to Dusty. My guess is he doesn't.

Obviously the Reds staff and players have decided to turn the other cheek where as the Cardinal players keep attacking Phillips and Cueto.

[10xWSChamps]

Pujols flipped on Masset for striking him out and pumping his fist.

Carpenter throws a fit every chance he gets. Dont even play it off like its unbelieveable that hes said stuff. He complains about "slippery" balls. He is just a chump in general.

Lopez said earlier this year that the Reds arent good and are playing over their head, and if the Cardinals were healthy they would be up by 5 games or some junk

Rasmus basically echoed Lopez.

Wasn't the Masset/slick ball stuff last year? Carpenter can act like a baby sometimes, no doubt, but he hasn't had any comments about Reds players or the team, beyond what was probably said on the field tonight. Usually he gets pissed at himself or the umpire.

That would be a dumb comment by Lopez, I hadn't heard that. However I am still skeptical that Rasmus did any trash talking, that just seems like the antithesis of his personality.

[GIDP]

Wasn't the Masset/slick ball stuff last year? Carpenter can act like a baby sometimes, no doubt, but he hasn't had any comments about Reds players or the team, beyond what was probably said on the field tonight. Usually he gets pissed at himself or the umpire.

That would be a dumb comment by Lopez, I hadn't heard that. However I am still skeptical that Rasmus did any trash talking, that just seems like the antithesis of his personality.

No Massets fist pump thing with Pujols was this year.

I would look up the comments but honestly I dont feel like it. I guess you will just have to take my word for it.

[DocRed]

Wasn't the Masset/slick ball stuff last year? Carpenter can act like a baby sometimes, no doubt, but he hasn't had any comments about Reds players or the team, beyond what was probably said on the field tonight. Usually he gets pissed at himself or the umpire.

Or his teammates....especially ones named Ryan.

[Jr's Boy]

Be nice if we could just just settle it with a Jonny Gomes-Chris Carpenter steel cage match.

[wojo1025]

So with Arroyo going tomorrow, what are the chances the baseballs are slick as glass and Dave Duncan comes out and has the home plate ump check Bronson's hat? This really has a chance to spill over for a while if played right

[GIDP]

This will start right back up the moment they play in St. Louis.

[GIDP]

I'm really amazed that John Fay is taking his Phillips grudge to a new level and basically absolving the Cardinals in all of this.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Just like you keep saying over and over...go look at the video. The reaction of Baker was both immediate and visceral. You can clearly reads his lips. You saw the reaction of Rolen who was calm at that point. I am thinking it wasn't your run-of-the-mill jawing back and forth.

Obviously you are trying to say that Carpenter must have used a racial slur that both Baker and Rolen took offense to, yet neither said anything about it in postgame comments? That would be a surefire way to get a huge suspension and Rolen and Carpenter were just seen talking to each other at the end of the scrum. Doesn't add up. The "Carpenter said something racist" comments are completely overboard.

I really wanted to like this board. A bunch of even keeled Reds fans appealed to me. But so far I've seen random claims of opposing players juicing, other players being racist, and then this fight ordeal where apparently nobody but me and about 4 other posters actually saw what happened. Disheartening.

[wojo1025]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[757690]

I'm late to the party. but I just wanted to add that I don' see how anyone can think that this wasn't Molina's fault at first. First, Phillips taps the leg gear of every catcher and every ump to start every game he leads off.

Molina acted exactly like what Phillips called the Cardinals when he flicked the bat away. That was a punk move and I wouldn't have faulted Phillips if he had done something worse than tap his shin guards again. Clearly Molina wanted to start a fight. You can blame Phillips for saying what he did the day before, but you can't blame him for his actions today.

Knowing LaRussa, I wouldn't be surprised if the told Molina to start a fight. It's right up his alley.

[Rijo's Ghost]

And why does it seem like I am the only one pissed off at Brandon Phillips? If you're going to run your mouth, back it up. So far it looks like he's just woken a sleeping giant. I don't believe in "chemistry" and all that, but I do believe that he has done nothing but embarrass the team in the last week. He talks smack and the Cardinals win games. Awful.

[GIDP]

Oh yes the Rasmus comments were that Arroyos pitches were doo doo and slop.

Seriously if anyone wants to complain maybe they should know the history of trash the Cardinals players talk. Insulting a teams talent is much worse than saying you hate their cry baby attitudes.

[texasdave]

Obviously you are trying to say that Carpenter must have used a racial slur that both Baker and Rolen took offense to, yet neither said anything about it in postgame comments? That would be a surefire way to get a huge suspension and Rolen and Carpenter were just seen talking to each other at the end of the scrum. Doesn't add up. The "Carpenter said something racist" comments are completely overboard.

I really wanted to like this board. A bunch of even keeled Reds fans appealed to me. But so far I've seen random claims of opposing players juicing, other players being racist, and then this fight ordeal where apparently nobody but me and about 4 other posters actually saw what happened. Disheartening.

I didn't say it had to be. So stop putting words in other people's mouths. I am simply not ruling anything out. I am pretty sure it went beyond what is normally said in those scrums. That much seemed blalantly obvious.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I'm late to the party. but I just wanted to add that I don' see how anyone can think that this wasn't Molina's fault at first. First, Phillips taps the leg gear of every catcher and every ump to start every game he leads off.

Molina acted exactly like what Phillips called the Cardinals when he flicked the bat away. That was a punk move and I wouldn't have faulted Phillips if he had done something worse than tap his shin guards again. Clearly Molina wanted to start a fight. You can blame Phillips for saying what he did the day before, but you can't blame him for his actions today.

Knowing LaRussa, I wouldn't be surprised if the told Molina to start a fight. It's right up his alley.

Yes, most people are really friendly to people who just personally called them a *****.

[wojo1025]

And why does it seem like I am the only one pissed off at Brandon Phillips? If you're going to run your mouth, back it up. So far it looks like he's just woken a sleeping giant. I don't believe in "chemistry" and all that, but I do believe that he has done nothing but embarrass the team in the last week. He talks smack and the Cardinals win games. Awful.

How dare Phillips speak his mind. If you haven't figured out that Brandon is a flashy young guy that sometimes does and says things he shouldnt then maybe you haven't been around very long.

oh wait, that's right

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[757690]

Obviously you are trying to say that Carpenter must have used a racial slur that both Baker and Rolen took offense to, yet neither said anything about it in postgame comments? That would be a surefire way to get a huge suspension and Rolen and Carpenter were just seen talking to each other at the end of the scrum. Doesn't add up. The "Carpenter said something racist" comments are completely overboard.

I really wanted to like this board. A bunch of even keeled Reds fans appealed to me. But so far I've seen random claims of opposing players juicing, other players being racist, and then this fight ordeal where apparently nobody but me and about 4 other posters actually saw what happened. Disheartening.

It might not have been racist, but it was just as offensive, something that restarted the fight after it had cooled down.

Carpenter should get the biggest suspension, if the league goes by the standard rules for fights. The first guys gets something, but those that come off the bench and escalate it get much worse. I doubt that will happen, since everyone loves the Cardinals, including Rijo's Ghost.

You may not be a troll, but judging you from your remarks, not just today, but since you have been on this board, I can not tell the difference between you and troll. I don't think you will be missed. Have fun wherever you go! :-)

[GIDP]

It's been a while since Reds fans have seen a good fight. Seriously i doubt anyone gets anything more than 2 games. Cueto might get enough to push his start back 1 day.

[foxfire123]

Arroyo has called Brandon a little Ochocinco/TO. yeah, he's mouthy and brash.

All I know is that it probably wouldn't be prudent for me to wear a Cincinnati shirt out of this house for a few weeks at least. :nono:

[757690]

Yes, most people are really friendly to people who just personally called them a *****.

Happens all the time in sports. He should have been above it.

Seriously, if you have ever been around pro athletes, all they do is give each other crap, and usually much worse than what Phillips said. They say it on the field, after the game, wherever they get together. Trash talk is beyond common place, it's expected. The only difference is that Phillips said it with the Press around.

Molina is a punk for acting the way he did. Most mature baseball players would have ignored it. But again, I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of LaRussa's grand plan. And it seemed to work.

[Rijo's Ghost]

How dare Phillips speak his mind. If you haven't figured out that Brandon is a flashy young guy that sometimes does and says things he shouldnt then maybe you haven't been around very long.

oh wait, that's right

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

Well, I understand he does that but I also realize that he has not yet backed it up. So good for him I guess.

He ran his mouth before the most important series we've had in 10s year and the team has gone 0-2 and Brandon has gone 1-10. All while pissing off the team that has dominated the division for 10 years.

Someone needs to tell him to shut his damn mouth. Nothing good comes of him speaking. When your own manager tells the press that he doesn't speak for the team, well...

[wojo1025]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[Magdal]

We have all seen the replays plenty now, but it seems some people see things that others don't. Carpenter calling Dusty an N word with his black teamates all around him? Seems VERY unlikely. But he certainly escalated things, resulting in the melee.

This was my point, and after everything has been said here I must stand by it: Molina kicking at Phillps' bat was akin to pushing away an outstretched hand. BP surely got the message that YM did not want to be friends with him, but he tapped him again, setting him off. He pushed his buttons, which after his statements last nite was uncalled for.

If I was Molina I would have got mad too. Who would'nt?

[GIDP]

Reds player says 1 thing = Worst guy on earth
6 Cardinals say things = Just spirit of the game

[BurgervilleBuck]

Cueto claims he was pinned against the fence and was afraid of being hurt so he started kicking to get himself out of harms way
I find that believable. It doesn't look like he's kicking to just be kicking but it still doesn't excuse what he did.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I'm not going anywhere. The difference between me and you is that I'm not ridiculously biased. The only person that reacted violently was Cueto. That cannot be debated. It is fact. If Carpenter is going to be suspended for running his mouth, Brandon should be as well. Words are a lot different than kicking another grown man in the back with metal spikes.

You know what, call me a Cardinals fan or troll if you'd like. I don't care. I'm a Reds fan that lives in Missouri and can't help but watch the Cardinals and wish we were them. In just about every way. There aren't any Cardinals on record talking about how they hate the Reds. Not one. There aren't any Cardinals players on record calling Reds players *****es. Not one. They show up year after year, series after series, and flat out beat our asses. They don't expect to win, they just win.

So, yes, I hate everyone who thinks that Brandon is a badass, because all he's done is run his mouth. He hasn't inspired our Reds or inspired himself. He's been a good player on a bad team. That's it. He needs to shut his mouth and play good baseball, and oddly enough, this year all he's done is run his mouth against our biggest rivals and hasn't done a thing.

[wojo1025]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

[fielder's choice]

I love BP but that was stupid, and Molina did exactly what he should have done, imo.

[bshall2105]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/0805/6647/TROLLnodder_thumb155_crop.JPG

:laugh:

[WestSideBomber]

Thought people might like this video...it's pretty damn funny.

YouTube - &#x202a;CARDINALS VS. REDS 8/10/10 TALK WITH BALLSOFSTEEL&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274o72SGYUQ&feature=watch_response)

Edit...can I not embedd a youtube video?

[malcontent]

It may have been an innocent thing on BP's part but he should have at least expected that it wouldn't have been welcomed.
Agreed. I like Phillips but he's never been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

And Molina actually did a nice cover of "One Wing Down".

Time for Baker to restore some focus.

[BurgervilleBuck]

I 100% disagree with you, but that's obvious. Cueto did NOT throw himself into the first row and I highly doubt his teammates did. So, by process of elimination, someone from St. Louis had their hands on Johnny and he responded the way people respond in fights. Not everyone keeps their cool when they're in the middle of a fight and I, for one, do not fault Cueto for reacting the way he did.
...
So you can keep saying that no Cardinals were around him, he just started kicking, but you'll have to explain to me how he ended up in the Diamond Seats.
I've got an HD-DVR and a 37" HDTV. I've watched the whole brouhaha several times since the game was over.

As the fracas between Rolen and Carpenter begins, Cueto is on the outside and furthest away from the melee. When it starts, LaRue tries to stop Rolen who manhandles him out of the way to get to Carpenter. Cueto runs around the outside towards Carpenter and is either trying to get Carpenter or somehow pull Rolen free. As the crowd moves towards the netting, both Cueto and Carpenter are up against it. Cueto is still trying to grab Carpenter with Nix and he gets pinned. It's then he starts kicking.

So, yah, Cueto pretty much put himself in the front row.

[757690]

I'm not going anywhere. The difference between me and you is that I'm not ridiculously biased. The only person that reacted violently was Cueto. That cannot be debated. It is fact. If Carpenter is going to be suspended for running his mouth, Brandon should be as well. Words are a lot different than kicking another grown man in the back with metal spikes.

You know what, call me a Cardinals fan or troll if you'd like. I don't care. I'm a Reds fan that lives in Missouri and can't help but watch the Cardinals and wish we were them. In just about every way. There aren't any Cardinals on record talking about how they hate the Reds. Not one. There aren't any Cardinals players on record calling Reds players *****es. Not one. They show up year after year, series after series, and flat out beat our asses. They don't expect to win, they just win.

So, yes, I hate everyone who thinks that Brandon is a badass, because all he's done is run his mouth. He hasn't inspired our Reds or inspired himself. He's been a good player on a bad team. That's it. He needs to shut his mouth and play good baseball, and oddly enough, this year all he's done is run his mouth against our biggest rivals and hasn't done a thing.

Good, I am glad you are not going anywhere. You are good poster. For the record, I never called you a troll, just saying you were sounding like one. A rational one, but you did sound like a Cardinal fan.

And for the record, the Cardinals have said many derogatory things about the Reds this year and others. They may have not said that they hated them, but they have done much more trash talking about the Reds than the Reds have done about them. But it really is no big deal, just like what Brandon did was no big deal. It was stupid, like what Rasmus and Lopez said earlier this year, but no big deal.

And for full disclosure, I once lived in Cardinal country as a Red fan, so I feel for you. It is tough being in enemy territory.

[10xWSChamps]

I don't think that Rolen was going after Carpenter to fight him, but to hold him back. They were standing side by side and talking as the whole thing got sorted out. They're supposedly pretty good friends

[BurgervilleBuck]

JPG

Seriously, you're making a fool out of yourself. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't automatically make him a troll. He's been pretty honest where others are being homerish.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Reds player says 1 thing = Worst guy on earth
6 Cardinals say things = Just spirit of the game
I don't think it's that way at all. Phillips said something and hasn't backed it up in this series. Whatever chirping the Cards have been doing, well, they certainly have the Reds' number. But if you're in a tight pennant race, you shouldn't ought to be giving your main competition bulletin board material.

Bottom line: I don't care if other teams bad mouth the Reds because the results we've seen this season prove otherwise. But I sure as heck also don't want the Reds to stoop to that level. This is baseball, not the NBA.

[bshall2105]

I don't think it's that way at all. Phillips said something and hasn't backed it up in this series. Whatever chirping the Cards have been doing, well, they certainly have the Reds' number. But if you're in a tight pennant race, you shouldn't ought to be giving your main competition bulletin board material.

Bottom line: I don't care if other teams bad mouth the Reds because the results we've seen this season prove otherwise. But I sure as heck also don't want the Reds to stoop to that level. This is baseball, not the NBA.

Phillips said he hated the Cards. I'd say he's backed that up pretty well.

[GIDP]

I don't think it's that way at all. Phillips said something and hasn't backed it up in this series. Whatever chirping the Cards have been doing, well, they certainly have the Reds' number. But if you're in a tight pennant race, you shouldn't ought to be giving your main competition bulletin board material.

Bottom line: I don't care if other teams bad mouth the Reds because the results we've seen this season prove otherwise. But I sure as heck also don't want the Reds to stoop to that level. This is baseball, not the NBA.

I guess he could be like Rasmus or Pujols and say the pitcher sucked after they go hitless.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I don't think that Rolen was going after Carpenter to fight him, but to hold him back. They were standing side by side and talking as the whole thing got sorted out. They're supposedly pretty good friends

You're a Cardinals fan so that doesn't matter here. (Although I agree with you)

I'm a Reds fan who doesn't automatically think the Reds are right and am getting called a troll.

Maybe I'm an oddity or something, but while I root for the Reds, I try to pretend they're a team I don't care about one way or the other. I try to be an objective baseball fan basically. The only problem with it is it makes me sound like a Debbie Downer. If I say that Leake has pitched beyond his peripherals and is likely to fall to Earth I'm a pessimist. If I say that Yonder isn't much of a prospect anymore I'm a hater.

[bshall2105]

Rijo's Ghost it does seem like you're going way out of your way to make Cueto out to be the only villain in this situation.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Rijo's Ghost it does seem like you're going way out of your way to make Cueto out to be the only villain in this situation.

No. He's never said Cueto was the only villain. He's only said that Cueto shouldn't have been kicking guys with cleats.

[bshall2105]

I haven't seen him say anything bad about anyone else is all I am saying. I just like to back up players on the Reds more than you guys do I guess.

[BurgervilleBuck]

I just like to back up players on the Reds more than you guys do I guess.
So you back them up even if they do wrong?

[GaiusBallstar]

Thought people might like this video...it's pretty damn funny.

YouTube - &#x202a;CARDINALS VS. REDS 8/10/10 TALK WITH BALLSOFSTEEL&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274o72SGYUQ&feature=watch_response)

Edit...can I not embedd a youtube video?

I ROFL'D. Then I LAWLED. :laugh::laugh:

Oh Internets.

[Road Pop]

I don't think that Rolen was going after Carpenter to fight him, but to hold him back. They were standing side by side and talking as the whole thing got sorted out. They're supposedly pretty good friends

It looked to me like Rolen was going for Carpenter's throat for a few seconds. He's a vet and probably calmed down quickly. I'm suprised Ryan didn't get a couple shots on Carpenter, and act like it was an accident "oops... my bad."

Rolen did talk to Carp immediately after, though.

[bshall2105]

So you back them up even if they do wrong?

Yeah, basically. I don't think it was as bad as some people make it out to be.

[GIDP]

Rolen was probably just keeping Carpenters smart mouth away because he knows he was dying to get it started back up.

[10xWSChamps]

This is my version of "what really happened"

Phillips made stupid comments

Then he tries to tap Molina on the shin protectors, whether he had good intentions with it or not is debatebale.

Molina kicks Phillips' bat away

Phillips takes that opportunity to get under Molina's skin and tries to tap his shins again.

Molina isn't having any of it and starts to jaw at Phillips

Baker and LaRussa run out to confront each other. Knowing them both they were probably waiting for the first opportunity to do so. They've yelled at each other many times before

Carpenter is a hot head and runs out there to do some yelling of his own

Rolen runs over to try to stop Carpenter and IMO this is what starts the scrum as I think maybe some Cardinals/Reds players misinterpreted Rolen and/or Carpenters intentions so they went out there to protect their guy. Carpenter should have never ran out there and then Rolen shouldn't have tried to 'stop' him, Carpenter wasn't going to be getting in a fist fight. The two of them getting tangled up just makes everything worse

So then everyone gets together, they get a good opportunity to scream at each other and not surprisingly, tempers flare.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Rijo's Ghost it does seem like you're going way out of your way to make Cueto out to be the only villain in this situation.

Just about everyone were villains. Cueto was the only one kicking guys with baseball spikes. That kind of behavior is not tolerable. It's as cheap as it gets.

[GIDP]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10842801

2nd half is from Cardinals feed. Looks like Jason Larue is going after Cueto to me and he kicks his way out of there.

[bshall2105]

Just about everyone were villains. Cueto was the only one kicking guys with baseball spikes. That kind of behavior is not tolerable. It's as cheap as it gets.

OK you clearly have something against Cueto other than this.

[GIDP]

cueto looks to be trying to break it up. then hes pushed up against the net and Jason LaRue trying to grab him. He kicks himself out of there while Votto and Fisher pull him out.

Thats exactly what I see. I dont know about you guys, but thats exactly what it looks like to me.

[bshall2105]

cueto looks to be trying to break it up. then hes pushed up against the net and Jason LaRue trying to grab him. He kicks himself out of there while Votto and Fisher pull him out.

Thats exactly what I see. I dont know about you guys, but thats exactly what it looks like to me.

Me too, and in this thread Cueto might as well be Ray Lewis.

[GIDP]

Me too, and in this thread Cueto might as well be Ray Lewis.

No one can certainly say Cueto wasnt near anyone and was just kicking for the sake of kicking. I saw Jason LaRue going nuts after Cueto and then Cueto landing kicks. No what exactly happened is one thing but I know what I see on the camera angles given.

[Rijo's Ghost]

OK you clearly have something against Cueto other than this.

Not at all. I don't know how anyone can defend Johnny kicking opposing players in the back with his spikes. Right there on video he's kicking Carpenter in the back and then LaRue in the face and chest. There is no arguing that. There is no arguing that he was the only player on either side to throw a kick or punch. It's not a subjective matter, it is fact.

He wasn't the only one pinned against the screen, but he was the only one kicking guys with his spikes. I know there's no official "baseball fight etiquette," but using a bat, ball or spikes are unwritten rules, as well as dangerous.

I don't know how anyone with a brain could say that Cardinals players should be suspended, but Cueto shouldn't. It defies logic.

[bshall2105]

Not at all. I don't know how anyone can defend Johnny kicking opposing players in the back with his spikes. Right there on video he's kicking Carpenter in the back and then LaRue in the face and chest. There is no arguing that. There is no arguing that he was the only player on either side to throw a kick or punch. It's not a subjective matter, it is fact.

He wasn't the only one pinned against the screen, but he was the only one kicking guys with his spikes. I know there's no official "baseball fight etiquette," but using a bat, ball or spikes are unwritten rules, as well as dangerous.

I don't know how anyone with a brain could say that Cardinals players should be suspended, but Cueto shouldn't. It defies logic.

I think Cueto deserves a 2 start suspension. But what I don't think he deserves is people constantly going on about how he's totally in the wrong. LaRue was going after him and Cueto was doing all he could to get out of there.

[GIDP]

Players who probably get a suspension

Phillips, Molina, Carpenter, Cueto, maybe Larue.

[Rijo's Ghost]

No one can certainly say Cueto wasnt near anyone and was just kicking for the sake of kicking. I saw Jason LaRue going nuts after Cueto and then Cueto landing kicks. No what exactly happened is one thing but I know what I see on the camera angles given.

LaRue had nothing to do with Cueto until Cueto had landed 3-4 kicks to Carpenters back. It's all on video. It's not even debatable.

Our guys screwed up. Plain and simple. Brandon ran his mouth and ran his team into a stupid fight that is probably going to get our ace suspended for a couple starts. The team that has been there and done that and wins year in year out didn't throw a punch and isn't going to get anyone suspended.

[757690]

LaRue had nothing to do with Cueto until Cueto had landed 3-4 kicks to Carpenters back. It's all on video. It's not even debatable.

Our guys screwed up. Plain and simple. Brandon ran his mouth and ran his team into a stupid fight that is probably going to get our ace suspended for a couple starts. The team that has been there and done that and wins year in year out didn't throw a punch and isn't going to get anyone suspended.

I don't know if Carpenter will get suspended because the Cardinals always get preferential treatment, but he should. He came off the bench and escalated a fight that had already died down. In every other sport, he's the one that would get the biggest suspension. His actions were premeditated and intended to cause trouble.

[powersackers]

LaRue had nothing to do with Cueto until Cueto had landed 3-4 kicks to Carpenters back. It's all on video. It's not even debatable.

Our guys screwed up. Plain and simple. Brandon ran his mouth and ran his team into a stupid fight that is probably going to get our ace suspended for a couple starts. The team that has been there and done that and wins year in year out didn't throw a punch and isn't going to get anyone suspended.

When I was a teenager playing half court basketball against some older teens I didn't know I called a foul, they didn't like it and I called one of the guys a b!tch. An hour later I wake up in the hospital after what I'm told is getting punched and kicked by him and 3 buddies.

Moral of the story, don't call anyone a b!tch and expect them to be cool with it.

[GIDP]

dude i really dont see it. Cueto has his feel up because hes getting smashed and if you look at Larue you see him going after Cueto pretty clearly. The more I watch it the more I see Larue going after Cueto pined up against the net. Sorry gonna just have to disagree there. I dont see him kicking anyone other than in self defense.

[arkimadee]

They are all a bunch of female body parts to me. There is nothing more wussy than a bunch of baseball players out trying to look tough. It made me ashamed. There was no reason for Phillips to make stupid comments to make the Cardinals mad. There was no reason for Molina to get all upset. There was no reason for any of this. It's just plain stupid. If the Reds go on a downward spiral the rest of this season, and that is a big "if," the single most stupid thing that has happened the last 10 years would have been Phillips running his mouth.

Grow up and be men Reds and Cards. Especially you Dusty and Tony.

[10xWSChamps]

Cueto was kicking wildly at anyone who was in front of him, I wouldn't have been surprised if some Reds players got kicked.

LaRue wasn't even facing Cueto until both he and Carpenter got hit.

GIDP, you give the Reds the benefit of the doubt in every post

[bshall2105]

Cueto was kicking wildly at anyone who was in front of him, I wouldn't have been surprised if some Reds players got kicked.

LaRue wasn't even facing Cueto until both he and Carpenter got hit.

GIDP, you give the Reds the benefit of the doubt in every post

He's kicking wildly after he gets pinned down into the net. Cueto is clearly not known for being much of a fighter and does whatever he can to get out of there. I still don't see how Carpenter got hit when Rolen had him pinned down too. I'm not saying it didn't happen I just don't see it.

[GIDP]

Cueto was kicking wildly at anyone who was in front of him, I wouldn't have been surprised if some Reds players got kicked.

LaRue wasn't even facing Cueto until both he and Carpenter got hit.

GIDP, you give the Reds the benefit of the doubt in every post

Ive watched it plenty of times and I see Cueto trying to break it up, then pinned up against a net with Jason Larue in front of him trying to grab him. I dont know what he could see but I'm guessing he has no idea who is around him other than the 3 people directly in front of him, and 2 of them were cardinals players. Cueto didnt start kicking until LaRue was reaching out for him. Sorry I dont know why we see it differently but its what I see.

He certainly should be suspended for it, but I'm not going to say he was looking to kick people in the face when I dont think he was. It looks like self defense to me. If he didnt put his feet up hes probably getting crushed more than he already was.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I think Cueto deserves a 2 start suspension. But what I don't think he deserves is people constantly going on about how he's totally in the wrong. LaRue was going after him and Cueto was doing all he could to get out of there.

You're not being serious are you? Watch it again and look closer. LaRue was on the other side of Carpenter, who was getting kicked in the back by Cueto.

Shoot, here's the link, where you see Carpenter being pushed into the net before Cueto, who actually got out of the way and to the first base side.

Carpenter takes a couple steps in front of Cueto and starts getting kicked in the back. Cueto wasn't pinned in at all. Watch the video and look at the screen cap. He was surrounded by Reds. I circled Cueto and Carpenter to make it clear.

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx241/rg4545/cueto.jpg?t=1281510520

Again, the only player to throw a kick or punch, like it or not, was Cueto.

[arkimadee]

You're not being serious are you? Watch it again and look closer. LaRue was on the other side of Carpenter, who was getting kicked in the back by Cueto.

Shoot, here's the link, where you see Carpenter being pushed into the net before Cueto, who actually got out of the way and to the first base side.

Carpenter takes a couple steps in front of Cueto and starts getting kicked in the back. Cueto wasn't pinned in at all. Watch the video and look at the screen cap. He was surrounded by Reds. I circled Cueto and Carpenter to make it clear.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc5/nonprofitcow/cueto.jpg?t=1281509360

Again, the only player to throw a kick or punch, like it or not, was Cueto.
lol i like matt holliday in the back not wanting any part of it..

[davereds24]

Holliday is a little b**ch

[GIDP]

Cardinal feed shows a ton more.

[bshall2105]

Cardinal feed shows a ton more.

Yes that's what I am going off of as well.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I don't know if Carpenter will get suspended because the Cardinals always get preferential treatment, but he should. He came off the bench and escalated a fight that had already died down. In every other sport, he's the one that would get the biggest suspension. His actions were premeditated and intended to cause trouble.

lol

Give Carpenter a bigger suspension for saying words than the guy kicking people with metal baseball spikes. Flawless reasoning.

It's not going to happen. No matter how much we want to spin it, Cueto is getting the biggest suspension and deservedly so. Nobody else used violence.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Cardinal feed shows a ton more.

Yes it does, and that's actually from the FSN Ohio feed.

[bshall2105]

lol

Give Carpenter a bigger suspension for saying words than the guy kicking people with metal baseball spikes. Flawless reasoning.

It's not going to happen. No matter how much we want to spin it, Cueto is getting the biggest suspension and deservedly so. Nobody else used violence.

Watch the Cardinal feed. You see someone moving towards Cueto. That is Jason Larue. Cueto is pinned down and while Larue moves towards him he starts kicking. I don't know how you are missing this.

[GIDP]

Yes it does, and that's actually from the FSN Ohio feed.

FSN feed shows nothing compared to the Cards feed. The first base camera angle clearly shows what Cueto was doing.

[10xWSChamps]

I think Cueto just got freaked out and made the stupid decision to start kicking.

Honestly, unless you're Bruce Lee, someone who's really trying to fight isn't going to be flailing away with their feet

[Rijo's Ghost]

FSN feed shows nothing compared to the Cards feed. The first base camera angle clearly shows what Cueto was doing.

Yes it does. It shows Cueto kicking Carpenter in the back and then LaRue in the face and chest.

[GIDP]

I 100% believe Cueto sees LaRue bearing down on him and given his situation his only reaction was to try to kick him away. Cueto was in no position to let LaRue get close to him.

[Rijo's Ghost]

I 100% believe Cueto sees LaRue bearing down on him and given his situation his only reaction was to try to kick him away. Cueto was in no position to let LaRue get close to him.

So then why is he kicking Carpenter in the back before that?

[bshall2105]

so then why is he kicking carpenter in the back before that?

He's trying to get out of there!!!!!!!

[Rijo's Ghost]

He's trying to get out of there!!!!!!!

OK, I give up. I know that most people want to assume the best, but that was cowardly and cheap. There were 5 other guys, including Carpenter up against the net and none of them resorted to wildly kicking guys, front or back.

[10xWSChamps]

I 100% believe Cueto sees LaRue bearing down on him and given his situation his only reaction was to try to kick him away. Cueto was in no position to let LaRue get close to him.

I disagree that with your version of events but let's assume they're true. So LaRue is coming towards Cueto, what makes Cueto start kicking?


I think your version has to be wrong, he was kicking before LaRue stepped in front of him. Carpenter was clearly the first person to really get kicked

[GIDP]

So then why is he kicking Carpenter in the back before that?

He didnt kick him before that from what I see. He certainly had his feet up but he didnt kick Carpenter until LaRue was coming after him. If Cueto wanted to kick Carpenter he could have got a ton of amazing shots in there if you ask me.

[bshall2105]

This argument is not going anywhere, we should probably just drop it.

[Rijo's Ghost]

He didnt kick him before that from what I see. He certainly had his feet up but he didnt kick Carpenter until LaRue was coming after him. If Cueto wanted to kick Carpenter he could have got a ton of amazing shots in there if you ask me.

and he did, which was why Carpenter spoke about getting kicked in the back and had a torn up warm up jersey

[GIDP]

I disagree that with your version of events but let's assume they're true. So LaRue is coming towards Cueto, what makes Cueto start kicking?


I think your version has to be wrong, he was kicking before LaRue stepped in front of him. Carpenter was clearly the first person to really get kicked

I dont lets see

1) hes pinned up against a wall
2) hes got 10 people shoving him to the ground almost
3) Jason Larue is screaming and trying to grab him
4) He has no other option other than get attacked by a guy 13 years older than him.

Please just put yourself in Cuetos shoes for a second and think about what is probably going through his mind. Are you going to say that cueto didnt look like he was trying to break it up? Why would he go from breaking it up to trying to kick people in the head? Seriously go through the scenarios in your head.

[RedsFanInBama]

Johnny was wrong to do what he did, period. Also, if you look at the very beginning of the thing, he kind of went out of his way to go get in the middle of the Rolen/Carpenter thing. That was a stupid thing to do for a pitcher, especially the one pitching the game going on. And especially for a guy who's best move is the straight kick.

[GIDP]

and he did, which was why Carpenter spoke about getting kicked in the back and had a torn up warm up jersey

Cueto only kicked Carpenter after Larue was basically on top of him. If Cueto wanted to kick Carpenter he could have dropped some pretty big bombs on him.

[bshall2105]

Carpenter would have been a bloody mess if Cueto was really trying to hurt someone.

[GIDP]

Yea this is going no where. One side thinks Cueto was head hunting and basically trying to shank someone, the other side thinks its self defense.

I'm glad I'm on my side of this argument.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Yea this is going no where. One side thinks Cueto was head hunting and basically trying to shank someone, the other side thinks its self defense.

I'm glad I'm on my side of this argument.

I don't think it's either. I think that Cueto ended up somewhere he didn't want to be and freaked out. That doesn't take away from the fact that he cheaply kicked Carpenter in the back numerous times and then LaRue in the face and chest. You just don't use your spikes like that. As much as it sucks for the team, Cueto should be suspended at least 10 games and deserves it. He could have pushed his way out like everyone else on the field or even used his fists like a man if he felt he had to. But kicking a guy in the back numerous times is flat out cowardly.

[GIDP]

I'm just not seeing where he kicks anyone until after Larue is pushing his way towards him. Honestly I dont know how I'm missing this and I'm trying to see it. Cueto does have his feet up trying to get room instead of being mushed and shoved to the ground, but I dont see a single kick until Larue is obviously trying to grab him.

[GIDP]

There is also heat of the moment things going on obviously. I think Cueto had good intentions until he thought he was in a position to get really hurt. He did what he could to get out of there.

He's what 23? I'm guessing everyone at that age panics if they are in a similar situation.

No doubt he should get suspended but I'm certainly not going to say that anything he did was a premeditated or done to actually hurt someone. I think he was trying to defend himself and given the situation he was in using his feet was his only option. I think if he wanted to do some big time damage Larue and Carpenter wouldn't be giving post game interviews.

[Reds]

Kyle Farnswerth and Paul Wilson got 2 games, and Wilson left a bloody mess. Just sayin'.

This fight has taken my interest in the team from 100% to 101%.

[texasdave]

YouTube - &#x202a;cardinals vs reds august 10 brawl&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bYN-pEM78)

[bshall2105]

Maybe he's claustrophobic.

[bshall2105]

YouTube - &#x202a;cardinals vs reds august 10 brawl&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bYN-pEM78)

If people can't see Larue going after him right there you're blind.

[Reds]

YouTube - &#x202a;cardinals vs reds august 10 brawl&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bYN-pEM78)

love the description:

"cueto bit*h kicks some cardinals
rolen brings peace"

Didn't these teams play in the civil rights game?

[Rijo's Ghost]

YouTube - &#x202a;cardinals vs reds august 10 brawl&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bYN-pEM78)

Yep, pretty clearly shows Cueto going at Carpenter from the side as it heads to the net, then kicking him in the back and then kicking LaRue who went after him after Cueto went for Carpenter.

That's gonna be a big suspension.

Why couldn't Brandon have just kept his mouth shut?