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Joseph
08-11-2010, 05:30 PM
The Reds aren't ready for prime time yet, but they will be sooner or later.

Depth doesn't always equal quality. 6 decent starters don't trump 2.5 good ones.

Fans are fickle, myself included, but I don't think I've seen a fanbase across the board seemingly fail to recognize the truth staring them in the face like this week. No, not the Reds, but the Cards. They do whine, sometimes incessantly so. Yet to a man their fans [I have a LOT of friends who are Cards fans] they seem to think they do absolutely no wrong. Their guys are right when they criticize a Masset for pumping his fists, but when Pujols claps and happy dances across home plate he just 'loves the game'. Yes, I completely understand if Phillips had said nothing there would have been no situation last night. However the Cards fans I've spoken with since all seem to think Molina has ZERO blame. Simply ludicrous. There is a lot of blame to go around in BOTH dugouts.

Cubs fans may be terrible, but Cards fans are carpooling with them on their way to the park.

Internet Cards fans who descended upon RZ like a plague of locusts make Cubs fans look like Harvard grads.

If I were in a brawl I used to think Gomes was the Red I'd most want to have my back. Now its a tie between Rolen and Cueto.

I love baseball, but I already knew that, its just nice to be reminded why every once in a while. Meaningful baseball is always fun, especially in the second half when we are normally looking for the season to end and more excited about September call up than potential play off rosters.

15fan
08-11-2010, 05:35 PM
I hope one of the guys learned (or was reminded of) this:

Don't let your mouth write a check your butt can't cover.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2010, 05:38 PM
What I learned:

Cardinals fans are worse than Cubs fans. I read on twitter last night that Cardinals fans were spitting beer on Reds fans and were trying to pick fights at the game last night. I saw at least three different tweets mentioning this. That's ridiculous. I've been to two Reds/Cards games at GABP this season and both times Cards fans were very arrogant and cocky. Cardinals fans have surpassed Cubs fans as the most obnoxious fans in baseball, IMO.

Everything you said is true. In the eyes of Cardinals fans, Cardinals players can do no wrong. They are perfect little angels.

WMR
08-11-2010, 05:41 PM
What I learned:

Cardinals fans are worse than Cubs fans. I read on twitter last night that Cardinals fans were spitting beer on Reds fans and were trying to pick fights at the game last night. I saw at least three different tweets mentioning this. That's ridiculous. I've been to two Reds/Cards games at GABP this season and both times Cards fans were very arrogant and cocky. Cardinals fans have surpassed Cubs fans as the most obnoxious fans in baseball, IMO.

Everything you said is true. In the eyes of Cardinals fans, Cardinals players can do no wrong. They are perfect little angels.

If we're just talking National League, I'm inclined to agree with you. Although reaching the heights of depravity set by Cubs fans is a very, very high (low) standard to reach...

Just be glad we don't have to deal with Red Sox and Yankees fans.

Ghosts of 1990
08-11-2010, 05:49 PM
We're not going to make the playoffs this year. That's what I learned.

Ready for primetime someday? Maybe. If Jay Bruce starts hitting. If we ever truly develop a #1 starter. If, if, if. That's what I see.

Guess I should just be happy that we're going to have a winning season. As if that's any constellation.

reds44
08-11-2010, 05:50 PM
We're not going to make the playoffs this year. That's what I learned.

Ready for primetime someday? Maybe. If Jay Bruce starts hitting. If we ever truly develop a #1 starter. If, if, if. That's what I see.

Guess I should just be happy that we're going to have a winning season. As if that's any constellation.
We're a game out of first and tied for the Wild Card lead right now.

Step away from the ledge.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2010, 05:57 PM
Frankly, I think this board has collectively lost its mind.

Phillips decides he's going to pop off about the Cards. OK, a dangerous tactic but you never know.

And then, from where I sit, it all disasterously backfired and blew up. The Cards got royally p-o'ed and cleaned the Reds' clock. I think this is the time where you say "OK, I guess I won't do that any more". And you shut the hell up.

And now people are retroactively trying to make a case about the Cards being whiners and Cards fans are the spawn from Hell. The truth is, the Reds precipitated all this. And now they are paying the price for it.

And I guess twitter is the voice of reason now? I was at the ballgame last night and sat next to a Cards fan. Our discussion was lively but reasonable. And I saw a lot of rowdy and happy Cards fans but no beer dumping or fight instigation. I've seen Cubs fans and they were nowhere close to that level of obnoxiousness.

I think everyone needs to take a really big deep breath.

HeatherC1212
08-11-2010, 05:58 PM
If we're just talking National League, I'm inclined to agree with you. Although reaching the heights of depravity set by Cubs fans is a very, very high (low) standard to reach...

Just be glad we don't have to deal with Red Sox and Yankees fans.

I am thankful for that fact everytime I think about the Orioles and what they deal with on a semi-regular basis. I went to a four game series in Baltimore a few years ago between them and the Red Sox and I actually felt like a visitor in their home ballpark. Their fans were everywhere and some of them were so obnoxious. I have a couple of friends who are RS fans and I adore them, but man the obnoxious RS fans are just beyond horrible. Yankee fans too although I also have a few friends who are Yankee fans and very nice. I think the loudmouths drown out the sane ones, LOL :laugh:

westofyou
08-11-2010, 05:59 PM
Frankly, I think this board has collectively lost its mind.

Phillips decides he's going to pop off about the Cards. OK, a dangerous tactic but you never know.

And then, from where I sit, it all disasterously backfired and blew up. The Cards got royally p-o'ed and cleaned the Reds' clock. I think this is the time where you say "OK, I guess I won't do that any more". And you shut the hell up.

And now people are retroactively trying to make a case about the Cards being whiners and Cards fans are the spawn from Hell. The truth is, the Reds precipitated all this. And now they are paying the price for it.

And I guess twitter is the voice of reason now? I was at the ballgame last night and sat next to a Cards fan. Our discussion was lively but reasonable. And I saw a lot of rowdy and happy Cards fans but no beer dumping or fight instigation. I've seen Cubs fans and they were nowhere close to that level of obnoxiousness.

I think everyone needs to take a really big deep breath.

Your act is getting tired old man, don't be so grumpy.

Now let's go yell expletives at anyone who doesn't see it our way!!

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2010, 06:06 PM
You obviously can't believe everything you read on twitter but I read three different accounts of Cardinals fans causing problems. Where there's smoke there's fire. I've been to two Reds/Cards games this season and Cards fans were very rude. Not all of them but some. There's nothing worse than going to a game and having to put up with obnoxious fans around you.

MattyHo4Life
08-11-2010, 06:09 PM
You obviously can't believe everything you read on twitter but I read three different accounts of Cardinals fans causing problems. Where there's smoke there's fire. I've been to two Reds/Cards games this season and Cards fans were very rude. Not all of them but some. There's nothing worse than going to a game and having to put up with obnoxious fans around you.

I've had that happen to me at Cards games from Reds fans. What conclusion do you think I should bring from that? I just figured that there are bad apples that root for every team, but apparently I should have concluded that Reds fans are rude and obnoxious? right?

top6
08-11-2010, 06:09 PM
Frankly, I think this board has collectively lost its mind.

If the notion that Cards fans are worse than Cubs fans is seriously being entertained, then you are absolutely correct.

Every fan base gets arrogant when they are at the top, but Cubs fans are horrible and arrogant even when they are at the bottom.

reds44
08-11-2010, 06:10 PM
If the notion that Cards fans are worse than Cubs fans is seriously being entertained, then you are absolutely correct.

Every fan base gets arrogant when they are at the top, but Cubs fans are horrible and arrogant even when they are at the bottom.
Cubs fans are nowhere near as bad as Cardinals fans. It's not even close.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2010, 06:10 PM
Your act is getting tired old man, don't be so grumpy.

Now let's go yell expletives at anyone who doesn't see it our way!!

Bah, get off my lawn, punk.

;)

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2010, 06:16 PM
People are just frustrated. We just got swept at home and lost first place and then had to put up with trolls on the Sun Deck. Now LaRussa is lobbying for one of our best pitchers to recieve a harsh suspension for defending himself. I think all the hatred for the Cardinals right now is to be expected. It's really hard to read some of those comments on Sun Deck and not be upset with Cardinals fans. Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen fans of an opposing team come to Redszone and troll like Cardinals fans have the last few days (that doesn't include you Matty. I disagree with you on a lot of things but you're not trolling).

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 06:17 PM
Doesn't matter what I learned. Hopefully Phillips learned to keep his mouth shut until he actually does something...but, I doubt it. Let sleeping dogs lie is something all should learn.

bum

reds44
08-11-2010, 06:20 PM
I love everybody pinning this on Phillips. You do realized we got clobbered in game one before anybody got wind of Phillips' comments?

This was a team effort of suck. Had nothing to do with Phillips' mouth.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2010, 06:22 PM
I love everybody pinning this on Phillips. You do realized we got clobbered in game one before anybody got wind of Phillips' comments?

This was a team effort of suck. Had nothing to do with Phillips' mouth.

Agreed. I don't think Phillips' comments had anything to do with the way the Cardinals played this week. The Reds played bad baseball all the way around. They didn't hit, pitch, or catch the ball.

durl
08-11-2010, 06:27 PM
To be honest, I thought the Reds' playoff hopes were dashed when they got swept by the Mariners. But they turned it around and started winning again.

I thought the playoffs were a distant dream when they got swept by the Phillies. But they came back and ended up with a 2 game lead in the Central.

This series hurt...bad. BAAAADDDD. Still, I imagine that they'll put it behind them and start winning again. And the Card will go back to their mediocre selves.

However, I DO believe that Phillips' comments added fuel to the fire for the Cardinals. They wanted to win this series really bad before his comments went public but they had extra incentive afterward. If anything, his comments have done more to discourage Reds fans who especially wanted a win after reading what he had to say.

dsmith421
08-11-2010, 08:11 PM
I've had that happen to me at Cards games from Reds fans. What conclusion do you think I should bring from that? I just figured that there are bad apples that root for every team, but apparently I should have concluded that Reds fans are rude and obnoxious? right?

Wait, was this when you were a lifelong Reds fan or a lifelong Cards fan?

kbrake
08-11-2010, 08:47 PM
I learned that I like this team even more which I didn't think was possible. Phillips said what he said because its the truth and everyone in and around baseball knows it. Chris Carpenter is exactly what Brandon Phillips claimed the Cardinals are.

It was an awful series. Every single break seemed to go their way and thats fine it is what it is. It's baseball. We're a game out and even if they shuffle the rotation again I'd expect a different outcome on Labor Day weekend. Maybe in October we will look back at this and be glad they learned some things in August instead of learning it as they leave the playoffs in the first round.

I understand why this board seems to be in panic mode, after the last decade its to be expected. 2010 is different though and this Reds team has shown us time and time again they know how to bounce back after getting kicked in the teeth. There is still a long way to go and we will be there the entire way.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 09:53 PM
I love everybody pinning this on Phillips. You do realized we got clobbered in game one before anybody got wind of Phillips' comments?

This was a team effort of suck. Had nothing to do with Phillips' mouth.

certainly didn't help. Like I said let sleeping dogs lie.

Trash talking is for video games not real life. Entertainment for the fans? Not if you lose. You can give Phillips another pass, but you gotta be getting worn out by now...

kbrake
08-11-2010, 10:04 PM
certainly didn't help. Like I said let sleeping dogs lie.

Trash talking is for video games not real life. Entertainment for the fans? Not if you lose. You can give Phillips another pass, but you gotta be getting worn out by now...

What all has he got a pass on? Seems to me he takes more heat compared to other players.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 10:13 PM
What all has he got a pass on? Seems to me he takes more heat compared to other players.


I don't know, not running out ground balls. Showing off instead of rounding the bases on HR's, running his dumb mouth, blah blah blah. He's a Hot Dog. I don't like Hot Dogs. LT did it the right way. Hot Dogs are better when someone else has to eat them...He gets the heat cause he won't stop playing with the oven.

kbrake
08-11-2010, 10:16 PM
I don't know, not running out ground balls. Showing off instead of rounding the bases on HR's, running his dumb mouth, blah blah blah. He's a Hot Dog. I don't like Hot Dogs. LT did it the right way. Hot Dogs are better when someone else has to eat them...He gets the heat cause he won't stop playing with the oven.

I know he does those things from time to time and he gets called out for it every time? As far as running out ground balls who does that on every single play?

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 10:19 PM
I know he does those things from time to time and he gets called out for it every time? As far as running out ground balls who does that on every single play?

me. It's about the team not him, and he doesn't get that and I have no confidence that he ever will. He's a fine player when he is giving the effort, but the hot dogging never goes away.

reds44
08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Nobody gives Phillips a pass, ever.

And I'm with kbrake, despite the sweep I learned I like this team even more, and I still have faith in them.

kbrake
08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
me. It's about the team not him, and he doesn't get that and I have no confidence that he ever will. He's a fine player when he is giving the effort, but the hot dogging never goes away.

To a point I agree with you and trust me plenty of times I have been frustrated with BP but I think he has changed and has been better this year. He has changed his approach to the game. He is doing what he can to get on base and help the team in years past he seemed to want to be the guy who drove in runs and put up big HR and RBI numbers. I think with more time around Rolen and OC BP will just keep growing.

Spitball
08-11-2010, 10:27 PM
What all has he got a pass on? Seems to me he takes more heat compared to other players.

I agree. Votto gets a hero's crown for saying he hates the Cubs, but Phillips is a different story. He takes on virtually the whole burden for the series.

I remember the All-Star game when Rolen (I believe) went first to third and you could hear Phillips yelling, "That a way to go! That's the way we do it in Cincinnati!" I think the guy loves the city and his team. Too bad he isn't loved back through thick and thin.


To be honest, I thought the Reds' playoff hopes were dashed when they got swept by the Mariners. But they turned it around and started winning again.

I thought the playoffs were a distant dream when they got swept by the Phillies. But they came back and ended up with a 2 game lead in the Central.

This series hurt...bad. BAAAADDDD. Still, I imagine that they'll put it behind them and start winning again. And the Card will go back to their mediocre selves.

Nice post, durl.


If there is one thing I've learned from this series, it would be that the Reds can face two of the best pitchers in baseball and be over-matched. That is true of all teams.

What I hope to learn is how they recover from these defeats. That will be the true measure.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 10:31 PM
To a point I agree with you and trust me plenty of times I have been frustrated with BP but I think he has changed and has been better this year. He has changed his approach to the game. He is doing what he can to get on base and help the team in years past he seemed to want to be the guy who drove in runs and put up big HR and RBI numbers. I think with more time around Rolen and OC BP will just keep growing.

We'll see. He's still hacking away in the leadoff spot like he doesn't know we need him on base. I have my doubts. I'm not saying he's Soriano but he certainly has a need for attention.

reds44: Phillips reaps what he sows. Those of you that defend him to the death humor me. When people open doors others walk through. Tell him to quit opening the door and I won't come in.

reds44
08-11-2010, 10:35 PM
We'll see. He's still hacking away in the leadoff spot like he doesn't know we need him on base. I have my doubts. I'm not saying he's Soriano but he certainly has a need for attention.

reds44: Phillips reaps what he sows. Those of you that defend him to the death humor me. When people open doors others walk through. Tell him to quit opening the door and I won't come in.
Brandon Phillips is the least of the Reds problems. The least.

He's a gold glove, all star second baseman. Really, pick a different target.

Spitball
08-11-2010, 10:37 PM
Nobody gives Phillips a pass, ever.

And I'm with kbrake, despite the sweep I learned I like this team even more, and I still have faith in them.

:beerme:

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 10:43 PM
Brandon Phillips is the least of the Reds problems. The least.

He's a gold glove, all star second baseman. Really, pick a different target.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Being an all-star isn't always about helping a team win. He's certainly not the least of the Reds problems, not by a long shot. Keep it coming!

Spitball
08-11-2010, 10:54 PM
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Being an all-star isn't always about helping a team win. He's certainly not the least of the Reds problems, not by a long shot. Keep it coming!

Frank Robinson received a lot of criticism during his time in Cincinnati also. Cincinnati Enquirer columnist Earl Lawson in particular took exception to his style. It wasn't until Robinson left Cincinnati that he received recognition for his leadership qualities.

reds44
08-11-2010, 10:57 PM
You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Being an all-star isn't always about helping a team win. He's certainly not the least of the Reds problems, not by a long shot. Keep it coming!
He plays great defense and he's an at worst above average hitter at his position.

He helps the team win, there's no opinon to have, it's just a fact.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 11:19 PM
He plays great defense and he's an at worst above average hitter at his position.

He helps the team win, there's no opinon to have, it's just a fact.

Oh there's plenty of room for opinion. When Brandon puts winning ahead of Brandon then I will change my mind.

Why don't you find a new target? You have nothing to say that is going to change what I have seen.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 11:22 PM
Frank Robinson received a lot of criticism during his time in Cincinnati also. Cincinnati Enquirer columnist Earl Lawson in particular took exception to his style. It wasn't until Robinson left Cincinnati that he received recognition for his leadership qualities.

I will give him this: I think sometimes he tries to prove he's a leader and then does something stupid in that effort. I think the Reds are better served letting other players on the team be the leader. Leadership can't be forced.

Spitball
08-11-2010, 11:43 PM
I will give him this: I think sometimes he tries to prove he's a leader and then does something stupid in that effort. I think the Reds are better served letting other players on the team be the leader. Leadership can't be forced.

Well, neither of us are on the inside mix of the Reds so we can't declare the merits of anyone's leadership qualities.

Phillips did speak his mind about the Cardinals. Did that spark them to their sweep? No way. How can a team fighting for first place against the team immediately in front of them possibly need more incentive? They should be at the apex of their competitive abilities.

So, unless you can produce some kind of statistic or proof that Phillips is not providing any leadership on the Reds, you are merely venting your unsubstantiated opinion.

Bumstead
08-11-2010, 11:49 PM
So, unless you can produce some kind of statistic or proof that Phillips is not providing any leadership on the Reds, you are merely venting your unsubstantiated opinion.

Not really, Brandon's actions show the kind of leadership he is providing. Everybody can see it, some choose to look the other way, and some of us choose not to. I choose not to. Like I said, I don't like hot dogs or video-game like attitudes; neither help when a team is trying to win.

MattyHo4Life
08-11-2010, 11:50 PM
I will give him this: I think sometimes he tries to prove he's a leader and then does something stupid in that effort. I think the Reds are better served letting other players on the team be the leader. Leadership can't be forced.

Scott Rolen is a leader. He leads by example, and he is respected by everyone.

oregonred
08-12-2010, 12:05 AM
Reds could replay that series 15 times and it wouldn't have been three lopsided wins for the Cards.

I fully expected to win 1 of the 3 (Tuesday). That's all that was needed.

Now the West Coast trip becomes huge (must go at worst 4-5) and suddenly the 90-game win-mark looks a little less attainable and may not be enough (now requires 26-21). Not the end of the World, but life just got a lot harder for the "good guys" the rest of the month.

Spitball
08-12-2010, 12:27 AM
Not really, Brandon's actions show the kind of leadership he is providing. Everybody can see it, some choose to look the other way, and some of us choose not to. I choose not to. Like I said, I don't like hot dogs or video-game like attitudes; neither help when a team is trying to win.


Lots of players' actions have been questioned by fans but they still were truly winners. Frank Robinson was no holds barred intense and many were critical of him. Pete Rose was called a hotdog by many. Rob Dibble was insanely intense and spoke his mind. But they all won World Series rings. Did their actions affect their teams? Did their actions merit looking the other way? How about Manny and his two rings? Gary Carter and his ring. How about Ty Cobb? Alex Rodriguez?

What about Joey Votto's comments about the Cubs? Did you post several comments expressing your criticism of his comments?

dman
08-12-2010, 12:31 AM
What I learned is that the Reds are ready to clear the benches over a little bit of mouth yapping between Molina and Phillips, but last week while playing Pittsburgh, Mike Leake hit Andrew McCutchen, which was clearly an accident, yet when Mike Leake comes to the plate he is promptly plunked by Paul Malholm and the Reds did nothing????

I know it's a completely different set of circumstances and a new born rivalry and all, but if there was a time that I wanted my team to show what we were made of, and that we were going to stick up for each other I would have cleared the benches last week, in another teams home stadium.

Big Klu
08-12-2010, 01:53 AM
Frank Robinson received a lot of criticism during his time in Cincinnati also. Cincinnati Enquirer columnist Earl Lawson in particular took exception to his style. It wasn't until Robinson left Cincinnati that he received recognition for his leadership qualities.

Earl Lawson must have been a real piece of work. Johnny Temple once took a swing at him and gave him a black eye after a postgame argument over a scoring decision (E4).

Of course, Johnny Temple would fight at the drop of a hat.

johngalt
08-12-2010, 02:18 AM
We're not going to make the playoffs this year. That's what I learned.

Ready for primetime someday? Maybe. If Jay Bruce starts hitting. If we ever truly develop a #1 starter. If, if, if. That's what I see.

Guess I should just be happy that we're going to have a winning season. As if that's any constellation.

Melodramatic much? Because a team gets swept in one three-game series in August, you've "learned" they won't make the playoffs?

I get it that you're pissed off about the performance this week. You've been ranting and raving about it on Twitter for a couple of days now. But it's really getting old seeing everyone acting like the season is over whenever this team hits a bad spell. If they drop 8 straight games or go on some kind of 2-12 run, then yes, it's completely logical to predict some doom and gloom. But let's not turn off the lights and head home when we're 13 games above .500 and one game out of first place with more than 40 games left to play.

marcshoe
08-12-2010, 02:47 AM
I believe that this series did not destroy the Reds. It was a teachable moment. Contending means not letting either the pressure or the excitement get to you too much. Stay within yourself.

There's a lot of baseball left, and if the Reds can learn that lesson, they can still win. Before the series started, they were playing their best baseball of the year. They have more depth than the cardinals, but less firepower, if that makes sense. The b ig guys--two great pitchers and two great mid-lineup hitters--make the cardinals infinitely dangerous. The Reds need another bat and another arm, and they likely won't be able to get what they need until after the season.

But that doesn't mean they're dead. They simply need to take a deep breath, learn who they really are, and become confident that they can win by doing what they have been doing--until this series.

Captain Hook
08-12-2010, 03:13 AM
Getting swept seems to bring out the best in this Reds team.

The thing I like about these Reds is, they seem to have a conscious.They are aware when they've played terrible.They've made no excuses(unlike the Cardinals)in the past when they've had their butts kicked.They look in the mirror,take responsibility for their poor play and get back to work.There are leaders all over this team and I'd bet that those guys are focused now more then ever.The other guys will follow and the Reds will win the Central this year.I have no doubt.

I hope Larussa and the rest of the Cardinals someday understand what Phillips was talking about but I doubt it.They will continue to make excuses and blame their future failures on whatever they can think of but they never be the professionals they claim to be.

guttle11
08-12-2010, 03:57 AM
What I learned:

The Cardinals played good baseball

The Reds didn't.

The players on both sides deeply care, as do the fans.

Contrary to what some Reds and Cards fans would lead you to believe tonight, the Reds did not go from 2 up to 17 down. The teams are still trading nose length leads, same as they have since Civil Rights Weekend. I expected the Cards to take 2 of 3, not only because of pitching matchups, but because that's how the race has been for months. No more than a 2 game lead since early May. These things have a way of working themselves out...it's the way of the baseball gods. If one team were to pull away by a handful of games, I'd be suggesting they pray to Jobu and sleep with garlic necklaces. It is preordained for these teams to battle it out to the end.

It's going to be a fun 6 weeks. Nothing, and I'll say it again, NOTHING would indicate either team going anywhere in the race. This thing is going deep into September. The Cards are +5 vs the Reds. The Reds are +4 vs everyone else. They play 3 against each other, and over 40 vs everyone else. Get through the West Coast trip within a couple of games and I'll take the Reds. Completely unbiased opinion, of course.

Ron Madden
08-12-2010, 04:36 AM
Frankly, I think this board has collectively lost its mind.

Phillips decides he's going to pop off about the Cards. OK, a dangerous tactic but you never know.

And then, from where I sit, it all disasterously backfired and blew up. The Cards got royally p-o'ed and cleaned the Reds' clock. I think this is the time where you say "OK, I guess I won't do that any more". And you shut the hell up.

And now people are retroactively trying to make a case about the Cards being whiners and Cards fans are the spawn from Hell. The truth is, the Reds precipitated all this. And now they are paying the price for it.

And I guess twitter is the voice of reason now? I was at the ballgame last night and sat next to a Cards fan. Our discussion was lively but reasonable. And I saw a lot of rowdy and happy Cards fans but no beer dumping or fight instigation. I've seen Cubs fans and they were nowhere close to that level of obnoxiousness.

I think everyone needs to take a really big deep breath.

:clap::clap::clap:

Ron Madden
08-12-2010, 05:22 AM
Earl Lawson must have been a real piece of work. Johnny Temple once took a swing at him and gave him a black eye after a postgame argument over a scoring decision (E4).

Of course, Johnny Temple would fight at the drop of a hat.


Earl Lawson was an excellent Beat Writer very much like Marty Brennamen was an excellent PBP Announcer. And very much like Marty, Lawson had his favorites and his whipping boys and just like Marty, he too often opened fire at the wrong targets. ;)

GAC
08-12-2010, 05:37 AM
Fans are fickle, myself included, but I don't think I've seen a fanbase across the board seemingly fail to recognize the truth staring them in the face like this week. No, not the Reds, but the Cards. They do whine, sometimes incessantly so. Yet to a man their fans [I have a LOT of friends who are Cards fans] they seem to think they do absolutely no wrong. Their guys are right when they criticize a Masset for pumping his fists, but when Pujols claps and happy dances across home plate he just 'loves the game'. Yes, I completely understand if Phillips had said nothing there would have been no situation last night. However the Cards fans I've spoken with since all seem to think Molina has ZERO blame. Simply ludicrous. There is a lot of blame to go around in BOTH dugouts.

Fan loyalty is a funny thing, because at times it blinds any since of reality and objectivity in the sense that our guys can do no wrong, and the other guys are a bunch of idiots. We'll defend the actions and behavior of our guys to the death!


Internet Cards fans who descended upon RZ like a plague of locusts make Cubs fans look like Harvard grads.

Who are all these Card fans descending upon RZ all of a sudden? I know MattyMo is a member, known him for years, and he's always been pretty respectful and level-headed IMO because he knows this is our "turf".

GAC
08-12-2010, 05:46 AM
I was at the ballgame last night and sat next to a Cards fan. Our discussion was lively but reasonable. And I saw a lot of rowdy and happy Cards fans but no beer dumping or fight instigation. I've seen Cubs fans and they were nowhere close to that level of obnoxiousness.

Fully agree Roy. The majority of games I've been to over these last several years have been against the Cards or Cubs. I too have sat next to both fans and had great conversations. They were respectful and even had great things to say about certain Red players whom they really liked.

To much generalization goes on on this forum.

And on the other hand, during some of those times, I've seen really boorish behavior by various Red fans toward them, and it was usually the alcohol speaking.

I remember a couple RZ Gatherings from several years back, when we were playing the Cubs, and a few of our very own members - again it was the alcohol -were taunting Cub fans as they walked into the bar.

It cuts both ways. Simply amazing how some Red fans are on here whining about Card and Cub fans, as if our fans walk around with halos on their heads.

MattyHo4Life
08-12-2010, 09:02 AM
Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen fans of an opposing team come to Redszone and troll like Cardinals fans have the last few days (that doesn't include you Matty. I disagree with you on a lot of things but you're not trolling).

Hey bro...it's ok...we can just agree to disagree on a lot of things, especially this brawl. Yolu have your opinions about Molina, Carpenter, and Baker, while I have the same opinions (if not worse) about Baker, Cueto, and Phillips. Nothing wrong with different opinions. I've disagreed with a lot of posters on here throughout the years, but I still respect their oinions.

Bumstead
08-12-2010, 10:33 AM
To clear a couple of things up (in case I am being lumped in a group where I don't belong):

1. I am not a Cardinals fan.
2. To compare Brandon Phillips to super intense competitors like Frank Robinson, Pete Rose and Rob Dibble is silly at best. His demeanor and style of play is nothing like any of those guys.
3. I still think the Reds have a chance. Unfortunately my discussion with a couple of guys that thought I shouldn't have an opinion (or thought I should have their opinion) over-rode the topic a bit. It's 1 series and the Reds are 1 game back and have played great all year. The future is bright whether it's this year and/or the next few years doesn't matter; they are headed in the right direction.

It was so much fun to make my annual trek this year from Chicago to Cincy to see a game that mattered for a change (Atlanta a few weeks ago); then, I got the opportunity to see the Reds and Cubs play up here last Sunday with my son and it still mattered. It's been a long time. I will say that I had no problems with Cubs fans, but Soriano glared at me when I yelled at him thanking him for not hustling after Votto's "double" down the line (bloop). hehe

Bum

Chip R
08-12-2010, 10:50 AM
Who are all these Card fans descending upon RZ all of a sudden? I know MattyMo is a member, known him for years, and he's always been pretty respectful and level-headed IMO because he knows this is our "turf".


Sun Deck.

MattyHo4Life
08-12-2010, 11:05 AM
Who are all these Card fans descending upon RZ all of a sudden? I know MattyMo is a member, known him for years, and he's always been pretty respectful and level-headed IMO because he knows this is our "turf".

HaHa...yep. I know this is your house, and i'm not going to come in here and doodoo on your carpet. sorry...after re-reading Colby's comments over and over, i just had to fit that it in there somehow. lol

GAC
08-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Sun Deck.

Ahhh. Well they'll fit right in then with some of the other characters over there. Shades of Cincy.com? :p:

wheels
08-13-2010, 07:03 PM
I don't know that I've learned anything from that last series, but I sure hope the Reds have.

In my opinion, this is the type of thing Dusty is good at. Picking his boys up, dusting them off (no pun intended), patting 'em on their collective rears and marching them off to whup some tail in the next series.

That was the first series they've lost since the break, and they're only a game out. They popped off, and were put into place my a more experienced team. But they have plenty of time to get righted and ready for the next tussle.

Time to hit the reset button.

TeamBoone
08-13-2010, 07:24 PM
Frankly, I think this board has collectively lost its mind.

Phillips decides he's going to pop off about the Cards. OK, a dangerous tactic but you never know.

And then, from where I sit, it all disasterously backfired and blew up. The Cards got royally p-o'ed and cleaned the Reds' clock. I think this is the time where you say "OK, I guess I won't do that any more". And you shut the hell up.

And now people are retroactively trying to make a case about the Cards being whiners and Cards fans are the spawn from Hell. The truth is, the Reds precipitated all this. And now they are paying the price for it.

And I guess twitter is the voice of reason now? I was at the ballgame last night and sat next to a Cards fan. Our discussion was lively but reasonable. And I saw a lot of rowdy and happy Cards fans but no beer dumping or fight instigation. I've seen Cubs fans and they were nowhere close to that level of obnoxiousness.

I think everyone needs to take a really big deep breath.

For the most part, I totally agree with you. And, yes, perhaps the Reds did precipate this... sort of.

But!!! Everyone seems to forget the unfounded statements made by a few Cards players and their manger earlier in the season. The Reds never responded and thus, the Cardinals got off scott free. That's frustrating to say the least. It's no wonder Brandon hates the Cardinals. I'm sure others do as well; they just didn't say it where anyone from the outside could hear it.

And.... I'd still like to know what Carpenter said to Dusty.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 08:12 PM
But!!! Everyone seems to forget the unfounded statements made by a few Cards players and their manger earlier in the season.

Oh I don't think anybody forgets those statements. I've seen the word "doo doo" on this board the last week so many times just this past week.

GAC
08-13-2010, 08:29 PM
But!!! Everyone seems to forget the unfounded statements made by a few Cards players and their manger earlier in the season. The Reds never responded and thus, the Cardinals got off scott free. That's frustrating to say the least.

Why do we have to respond to words, even trash talk. I say ignore the idiots and don't let it get to you.

TeamBoone
08-13-2010, 08:43 PM
Oh I don't think anybody forgets those statements. I've seen the word "doo doo" on this board the last week so many times just this past week.

Yeah, I know you have, Matty, because you come here a lot. But I think most of your fans don't, and don't remember. Nor does the media. Heck, I don't think the players and LaRussa even remember what they said.... but they sure know what was said by the Reds!


Why do we have to respond to words, even trash talk. I say ignore the idiots and don't let it get to you.

I agree, GAC. I'm just saying that everyone who is putting all the blame on the Reds isn't taking everything into consideration. I wish Brandon hadn't said that either, but he did, and nothing will change it. They need to remember who they're sharing private comments to....

wheels
08-13-2010, 11:28 PM
Both teams said stupid things.

All that matters is how things shake out in the end.

Lotsa testosterone and the like.

All adds up to bupkiss in the end if you ask me.

Ron Madden
08-14-2010, 04:22 AM
Why do we have to respond to words, even trash talk. I say ignore the idiots and don't let it get to you.

I agree 100%. A little less talk and a lot more action would work.

MattyHo4Life
08-14-2010, 08:44 AM
[B]

Yeah, I know you have, Matty, because you come here a lot. But I think most of your fans don't, and don't remember. Nor does the media. Heck, I don't think the players and LaRussa even remember what they said.... but they sure know what was said by the Reds!

Oh, I thought you meant posters on this board. You are exactly right TB... most Cardinals fans don't know of those comments. I don't even know if they were reported in the St. Louis newspaper. I don't remember them if they were. I still don't think Lopez' comments were bad at all. He just said that the Reds were hot and the Cards weren't at that point. He was right...wasn't he?

GAC
08-14-2010, 09:41 AM
[B]I agree, GAC. I'm just saying that everyone who is putting all the blame on the Reds isn't taking everything into consideration. I wish Brandon hadn't said that either, but he did, and nothing will change it. They need to remember who they're sharing private comments to....

Yep. And I'm most definitely not putting all the blame on the Reds. But I view BP's comments, and maybe some of the Card's players now do too, that previous things said by a few Card players have rattled the guy, gotten under his skin, and maybe the Reds as a whole. He's played into their game, and IF it proves to be like a "disease" that plants the seed of a distraction or disruption, and sidetracks the Reds, causing them to slide the rest of the season, then they'll certainly take it and relish in it.

Now the Reds may go into a tailspin for other various reasons (like a West Coast swing); but you can bet your sweet booty though that the Cards will look back to that brawl earlier this week and say "Yeah! We really rattled those guys and took them out of their game".

Now I don't believe that, but it doesn't matter what I believe.

And it certainly isn't going to keep any Card player from doing any future trash talking on the Reds. Not if they think there is a chance it will rattle them.

I treat trash talk like a do a troll. I ignore them. To respond just feeds them.

TeamBoone
08-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Oh, I thought you meant posters on this board. You are exactly right TB... most Cardinals fans don't know of those comments. I don't even know if they were reported in the St. Louis newspaper. I don't remember them if they were. I still don't think Lopez' comments were bad at all. He just said that the Reds were hot and the Cards weren't at that point. He was right...wasn't he?

Yes, I think so. I didn't see anything wrong with what he said either.

TeamBoone
08-14-2010, 01:41 PM
What I learned is that the Reds are ready to clear the benches over a little bit of mouth yapping between Molina and Phillips, but last week while playing Pittsburgh, Mike Leake hit Andrew McCutchen, which was clearly an accident, yet when Mike Leake comes to the plate he is promptly plunked by Paul Malholm and the Reds did nothing????

I know it's a completely different set of circumstances and a new born rivalry and all, but if there was a time that I wanted my team to show what we were made of, and that we were going to stick up for each other I would have cleared the benches last week, in another teams home stadium.

I agree that the intential "plunk" of Mike Leake was uncalled for. But... we must all remember that the Reds are in a pennant race, and they don't want to see guys getting suspended every time someone does something that they clearly shouldn't. We'll end up with no team atall. Not that there isn't depth on this team,,, but well, you know what I mean.

I would also HATE for the Reds to get the reputation of being thugs. Sometimes you do nothing... especially when it's obvious that the other team is in the wrong.