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Joseph
08-12-2010, 12:14 PM
Cueto - 7 games

Baker - 2 games

Phillips - Undisclosed Fine
Springer - Undisclosed Fine


Larussa - 2 games

Molina - Undisclosed fine
Carpenter - Undisclosed fine

NDRed
08-12-2010, 12:16 PM
I just got the ESPN alert. I am surprised that Phillips and Molina didn't get a couple of days off.

Always Red
08-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Cardinals win again.

All that emotion, talk, posturing and fighting really helped the Reds, didn't it?

um, no, not at all.

The Operator
08-12-2010, 12:18 PM
What a crock.

I guess you just have to let the melee trample you under next time, Johnny.

Always Red
08-12-2010, 12:18 PM
I just got the ESPN alert. I am surprised that Phillips and Molina didn't get a couple of days off.

Carpenter should have had at least a token (3-4 game) suspension for calling Dusty a not-very-nice name just when things were winding down.

LincolnparkRed
08-12-2010, 12:18 PM
Seven-game suspension for Cueto. Two-game suspensions for Baker and La Russa.

that will be interesting on how to start the suspension and if you challenge it, and we have already been to NYC what happens then? I say challenge it, get 5 games and call up Maloney or Lecure and tell them it is a one time deal

Redsfan320
08-12-2010, 12:18 PM
I dunno. The more I think about, it is kinda hard to give Molina a suspension w/o giving BP one. And, while I think it should've been the case, from MLB's POV, it would probably have been pretty hard to suspend Carpenter w/o suspending Rolen. I don't think Cueto should've been suspended, but... who knows?

320

Joseph
08-12-2010, 12:19 PM
Really only losing one start for Cueto which is probably a blessing in disguise. A little extra rest late in the season probably isn't a bad thing.

Joseph
08-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Springer was among those fined, anyone see anything blatant he did?

KoryMac5
08-12-2010, 12:21 PM
I would imagine Cueto will appeal. After MLB hears a more detailed side of it from him I would imagine it would be reduced to 4-5 games which equals one start. Nothing to get upset about or say I told you so here.

KoryMac5
08-12-2010, 12:22 PM
Springer was among those fined, anyone see anything blatant he did?

He probably called Dusty a "punk" and then realized he was playing for the Reds.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2010, 12:28 PM
What a joke.

Yadier Molina causes the benches to clear - he gets nothing but a fine. Chris Carpenter escalates the thing from a shouting match into a brawl - he gets away with nothing but a fine.

Johnny Cueto gets piled on by 20 people, he kicks his way out of a bad situation and gets suspended seven games. Just what I thought would happen. Tony LaRussa being friends with Bud Selig really paid off.

_Sir_Charles_
08-12-2010, 12:29 PM
About what I expected. I never saw anything with Springer, but maybe with that name (Jerry) he gets fined automatically. :O)

As for Cueto, regardless of the intent....you spike somebody repeatedly...you're gonna get suspended. To expect otherwise is simply having blinders on IMO.

The Voice of IH
08-12-2010, 12:34 PM
What a crock.

I guess you just have to let the melee trample you under next time, Johnny.

yep, Cueto choose the lesser of two evils. a 7 game suspension over being crushed and DL'ed.

nate
08-12-2010, 12:35 PM
So BP runs his mouth and the net result is our best starter misses a game?

Not the end of the world but not a net positive either.

The Voice of IH
08-12-2010, 12:36 PM
About what I expected. I never saw anything with Springer, but maybe with that name (Jerry) he gets fined automatically. :O)

As for Cueto, regardless of the intent....you spike somebody repeatedly...you're gonna get suspended. To expect otherwise is simply having blinders on IMO.

he is a DL player that entered the field due to a brawl, it is automatic.

lollipopcurve
08-12-2010, 12:37 PM
Seems fair enough. What Cueto did was defensible, but MLB has to punish the use of spikes above and beyond the use of words.

backbencher
08-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Seems fair enough. What Cueto did was defensible, but MLB has to punish the use of spikes above and beyond the use of words.

This.

It's hard not to empathize with a guy who is lifted off the ground by a mob -- to the point that spikes are a viable weapon against standing opponents -- but a weapon is a weapon. Absolutely had to be done. Could have been longer.

cumberlandreds
08-12-2010, 01:03 PM
I would imagine Cueto will appeal and his sentence be reduced to about 5 games. IMO,Phillips,Molina and Carpenter all should have been given about a 3 day vacation. Overall pretty light I think for the type of brawl it became. Usually these things just turn into dance contests without any real fight involved.

mdccclxix
08-12-2010, 01:05 PM
What a crock.

I guess you just have to let the melee trample you under next time, Johnny.

And after that, take a hay maker from LaRue.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2010, 01:07 PM
What a crock.

I guess you just have to let the melee trample you under next time, Johnny.

I think Major League Baseball is sending the message that it's okay to start a brawl (Carpenter, Molina) but it's not okay to defend yourself (Cueto). JMO.

_Sir_Charles_
08-12-2010, 01:08 PM
he is a DL player that entered the field due to a brawl, it is automatic.

Good catch. I overlooked that aspect.

Reds Fanatic
08-12-2010, 01:09 PM
The Cueto suspension does not shock me. As soon as they had video of him kicking someone whatever the reason he was going to be suspended. At least with 7 games he will only miss 1 start. Dusty and LaRussa by the way can't appeal so Dusty will be off Friday and Saturday. Carpenter is the one that should have had more punishment because without whatever he said the fight never gets to that backstop and no one is kicked or anything else.

bucksfan2
08-12-2010, 01:23 PM
Cueto should not have been in that situation to begin with. There is no way the starting pitcher should get anyway near the scrum. So yea maybe the fine is a little bit harsh, but Cueto was stupid to put himself in that situation.

reds44
08-12-2010, 01:42 PM
Honestly, Cueto's suspension was deserved. You can't kick people, you just can't.

Molina should have gotten a game or two as well, though.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2010, 01:44 PM
From Mark Sheldon:


Baker was also stunned more didn't happen to Carpenter, especially.

"I don't know what the umpire report says. Something must have been left out," Baker said. "A few statements caused the escalation."


http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/cueto_gets_worst_punishment.html

Reds1
08-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Honestly, Cueto's suspension was deserved. You can't kick people, you just can't.

Molina should have gotten a game or two as well, though.

I agree. I believe Cueto, but you can't do that. I'm glad Molina didn't get a couple days because then BP probalby should have also - he did start it. Really I think it's almost done just right. Cueto as a pitcher just gets a couple extra days rest. Not a big deal.

reds44
08-12-2010, 01:47 PM
And for anybody saying he it was self defense, Carpenter was pretty much in the same spot Cueto was and he managed not to kick people with his spikes.

You just can't do that.

mbgrayson
08-12-2010, 01:57 PM
Why would Cueto bother to appeal? If he just takes the seven game as is, starting now, he still only misses one start. Plus, we can call up Chapman or Homer to fill in while he is gone. If Bailey is sharp, we really aren't hurt by it. Of course, that does mean that either Leake takes his turn, or can Cueto going on the ineligible list justify recalling Wood sooner than normally allowed?

edabbs44
08-12-2010, 01:58 PM
And for anybody saying he it was self defense, Carpenter was pretty much in the same spot Cueto was and he managed not to kick people with his spikes.

You just can't do that.

Exactly. If he was holding a bat, it wouldn't have been ok to start beating people over the head with it.

Nick someone's eye and it is a whole different ballgame.

Brutus
08-12-2010, 02:02 PM
And for anybody saying he it was self defense, Carpenter was pretty much in the same spot Cueto was and he managed not to kick people with his spikes.

You just can't do that.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the suspension, though it's easy to say not to kick when you don't have 20 adult bodies falling on top of you, but Carpenter is a bad example because frankly he had Scott Rolen and others literally pulling him away from the pile as soon as it surged backward.

VR
08-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Scott Rolen should have been awarded the Peace Prize. Without him....it's Pacers/ Pistons all over again.

Razor Shines
08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Scott Rolen should have been awarded the Peace Prize. Without him....it's Pacers/ Pistons all over again.

Carp does seem like the type of guy that would go into the stands and punch a random Reds fan.

The Voice of IH
08-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Carp does seem like the type of guy that would go into the stands and punch a random Reds fan.

no way, Carpenter does not fight, he yells, screams, and b*****, then hides.

NJReds
08-12-2010, 02:25 PM
No problem with the Cueto suspension, but Carpenter should've been docked 5 games (1 start) for escalating the fight.

fearofpopvol1
08-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Btw, not sure if it's been reported anywhere on RZ, but I have heard from a good source that Carpenter used a certain word that begins with the letter "F" and then "You" and said that to Dusty and that is what rattled Dusty's cage.

Chip R
08-12-2010, 02:34 PM
Why would Cueto bother to appeal? If he just takes the seven game as is, starting now, he still only misses one start. Plus, we can call up Chapman or Homer to fill in while he is gone. If Bailey is sharp, we really aren't hurt by it. Of course, that does mean that either Leake takes his turn, or can Cueto going on the ineligible list justify recalling Wood sooner than normally allowed?


Because if it's knocked down to a 4 game suspension, he doesn't miss any starts.

westofyou
08-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Because if it's knocked down to a 4 game suspension, he doesn't miss any starts.

or miss 3 days more of pay

mbgrayson
08-12-2010, 03:04 PM
Because if it's knocked down to a 4 game suspension, he doesn't miss any starts.

True, as long as the four days fit neatly within his scheduled starts. Otherwise, the Reds will have to juggle the rotation to accomodate him. And I also agree that he will not lose as much pay if his suspension is reduced.

What I would worry about is if the suspension is not reduced, it could impact two starts. My understanding is that when the decision on the appeal comes out, that is it, and the suspensions become effective immediately. So if the appeal decision came out a day or two before a scheduled start, and there was no reduction, two starts could be impacted.

bucksfan2
08-12-2010, 03:07 PM
True, as long as the four days fit neatly within his scheduled starts. Otherwise, the Reds will have to juggle the rotation to accomodate him. And I also agree that he will not lose as much pay if his suspension is reduced.

What I would worry about is if the suspension is not reduced, it could impact two starts. My understanding is that when the decision on the appeal comes out, that is it, and the suspensions become effective immediately. So if the appeal decision came out a day or two before a scheduled start, and there was no reduction, two starts could be impacted.

It is my understand that the Reds could appeal Cueto's suspension, hopefully allow him to start his next game, heck even juggle the rotation to allow that to happen, then after his start drop the appeal and serve the suspension.

The way I figure it Cueto could start on normal rest Sun, then sit out a week and be read to start next Monday.

reds44
08-12-2010, 03:10 PM
It is my understand that the Reds could appeal Cueto's suspension, hopefully allow him to start his next game, heck even juggle the rotation to allow that to happen, then after his start drop the appeal and serve the suspension.

The way I figure it Cueto could start on normal rest Sun, then sit out a week and be read to start next Monday.
Yep. That's what I would do. I'd appeal his suspension, and then drop it right after he makes his next start.

Roy Tucker
08-12-2010, 03:11 PM
If I recall how suspensions have been handled in the past, if they make appeal, they continue to play.

MLB then schedules a hearing in NYC (usually the next time the team is in NY), and then make a decision after that.

And if a player decides to drop the appeal, they start the suspension the next game.

So Cueto/Reds can juggle this to make it just one start missed I would think.

mbgrayson
08-12-2010, 03:29 PM
It is my understand that the Reds could appeal Cueto's suspension, hopefully allow him to start his next game, heck even juggle the rotation to allow that to happen, then after his start drop the appeal and serve the suspension.

The way I figure it Cueto could start on normal rest Sun, then sit out a week and be read to start next Monday.

But why bother to appeal at all? If he starts the suspension tomorrow, he would only miss one start.

My point above was that if you go all the way through with the appeal, and lose, then you also have lost flexibility and Cueto could miss two starts if a losing appeal decision came out right before a start. (Because then, you are forced to actually serve the appeal).

kbrake
08-12-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm fine with the Cueto suspension, while I don't agree him and Carpenter were in the exact same situations you can't spike people. That message has to be sent. As far as BP and Yadi all they did was jaw at each other.

Chris Carpenter is a completely different story. He is the only person responsible for the escalation. He should have been sat for a start as well.

MattyHo4Life
08-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Carpenter is the one that should have had more punishment because without whatever he said the fight never gets to that backstop and no one is kicked or anything else.

Am I hearing a lot of you right on this one? Molina is wrong for reacting to comments and bat tapping by Phillips? Molina should have been the mature one and just ignored it right? That's what a mature man does. Right? Well, then shouldn't Baker have just ignored Carpenter's comments? Ok...so Brandon is allowed to be Brandon, and Molina is wrong for not being mature and ignoring him. Baker is just responding to Carpenter's comments, and it doesn't matter if he isn't being mature. Apparently, Chris Carpenter has replaced Jim Edmonds as the Devil on RZ.

MattyHo4Life
08-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Chris Carpenter is a completely different story. He is the only person responsible for the escalation.

Impossible, he can't be the only one responsible for the escalation. It takes two to tango.

bucksfan2
08-12-2010, 03:51 PM
But why bother to appeal at all? If he starts the suspension tomorrow, he would only miss one start.

My point above was that if you go all the way through with the appeal, and lose, then you also have lost flexibility and Cueto could miss two starts if a losing appeal decision came out right before a start. (Because then, you are forced to actually serve the appeal).

Its all how the appeal process works. I may be wrong but I can't recall an appeal process that took a day or to to solve. It also is how the Reds want to pitch Cueto. Do you want to pitch him on normal rest and then pitch him on 7 days rest? Or do you want to pitch him on 10 days rest? Note that if the Reds do not appeal Cueto will be forced to miss 8 days because of the off day. If the Reds do appeal its likely he will only pitch on 7 days. Does it matter? I don't know.

kbrake
08-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Impossible, he can't be the only one responsible for the escalation. It takes two to tango.

It may take 2 to fight but only one is required to get it going. I agree with you on Molina I don't see why he should get anything more than BP. Whatever one got the other should have. Carpenter escalated that entire thing there is no question.

Hoosier Red
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Am I hearing a lot of you right on this one? Molina is wrong for reacting to comments and bat tapping by Phillips? Molina should have been the mature one and just ignored it right? That's what a mature man does. Right? Well, then shouldn't Baker have just ignored Carpenter's comments? Ok...so Brandon is allowed to be Brandon, and Molina is wrong for not being mature and ignoring him. Baker is just responding to Carpenter's comments, and it doesn't matter if he isn't being mature. Apparently, Chris Carpenter has replaced Jim Edmonds as the Devil on RZ.

Matty, I agree with you to a point. But would you not acknowledge that there is a different feeling between the two situations?1) Start of the inning, two players next to each other, obviously tense but to that point no one had physically done anything. 2) the denouement after 60-70 players coaches, etc, huddled very close screaming obscenities at each other?

The difference between lighting a match around a gas station,(not a good idea and could lead to obviously bad conclusion) and lighting a match while standing in a puddle of spilled gas.(Obviously a more easily combustible situation because at that point it's not just Dusty who has to control his emotions, but everyone has to control their emotions.)

GAC
08-12-2010, 04:07 PM
And for anybody saying he it was self defense, Carpenter was pretty much in the same spot Cueto was and he managed not to kick people with his spikes.

You just can't do that.

That is a very good point. I don't think the "self defense" defense is a good defense (say that 5X's quick) because, as someone already pointed out, he shouldn't have placed himself in that position, didn't have to be there, but chose to get himself involved in the fray. The fact that he injured LaRue and put him on the DL is why he got the suspension.

And you can't suspend Molina without suspending BP IMO. Molina started it? MLB officials may not necessarily agree, and say BP's actions of tapping Molina's shin guards with the bat, regardless of what some say the intent may have been, could be construed as instigating.

Make him serve the suspension immediately and call Wood back up sooner! :p:

Roy Tucker
08-12-2010, 04:16 PM
I think it was said before, but I'll reiterate. Scott Rolen is highly respected by both teams.

I'm a little surprised that the trio of Phillips, Molina, and Carpenter weren't suspended.

I wonder how long Cueto would have been suspended for had he been a position player.

I wonder what the odds are that Dusty and LaRussa will go off for a 2 day trip together somewhere.

Reds Fanatic
08-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Am I hearing a lot of you right on this one? Molina is wrong for reacting to comments and bat tapping by Phillips? Molina should have been the mature one and just ignored it right? That's what a mature man does. Right? Well, then shouldn't Baker have just ignored Carpenter's comments? Ok...so Brandon is allowed to be Brandon, and Molina is wrong for not being mature and ignoring him. Baker is just responding to Carpenter's comments, and it doesn't matter if he isn't being mature. Apparently, Chris Carpenter has replaced Jim Edmonds as the Devil on RZ.

Actually I never said anything abuot Molina because I can even understand his reaction. I can understand Molina reacting to what Phillips said and the initial confrontation. My only point about Carpenter is after Molina confronted Phillips and he benches emptied the whole thing was pretty much calmed down and would have been your typical baseball fight. It was not until Carpenter said whatever to Baker that it got heated and got ugly at the wall. For that reason I think Carpenter should have gotten more punishment than he got. The other suspensions/fines I have no issue with. I did not say Carpenter was the devil either. That is not fair to the devil. ;)

reds44
08-12-2010, 04:42 PM
This is probably what I would have done:
Cueto 7 games
Carpenter 4 games
Baker 2 games
TLR 2 games
Phillips 1 game
Molina 1 game

mbgrayson
08-12-2010, 04:47 PM
That is a very good point. I don't think the "self defense" defense is a good defense (say that 5X's quick) because, as someone already pointed out, he shouldn't have placed himself in that position, didn't have to be there, but chose to get himself involved in the fray. The fact that he injured LaRue and put him on the DL is why he got the suspension.

And you can't suspend Molina without suspending BP IMO. Molina started it? MLB officials may not necessarily agree, and say BP's actions of tapping Molina's shin guards with the bat, regardless of what some say the intent may have been, could be construed as instigating.

Make him serve the suspension immediately and call Wood back up sooner! :p:

Three things:

1. There were about 60 players that were in the scrum. Cueto is no more culpable than anyone else for being in the fray. He was just unlucky enough to be on the end of the mob that got pushed into the wall, and he reacted out of fear and panic more than anything. He really didn't have time to think much about what he did, he got pushed up on the short wall, and kicked. I can't really attribute what he did to choice as much as instinct. I do think 7 games is a little too much for that.

2. LaRue is NOT on the DL. I checked the Cardinals active roster again, at http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl) and he is not on the DL. They did place Suppan on the DL for unrelated reasons, and call up a third catcher in case one was needed.

3. It does make some sense just to serve the suspension now and be done with the thing. Wood or Bailey could cover Suday's start for Cueto.

Caseyfan21
08-12-2010, 04:51 PM
And for anybody saying he it was self defense, Carpenter was pretty much in the same spot Cueto was and he managed not to kick people with his spikes.

You just can't do that.

I agree with you, but on the other hand, Carpenter is a pretty big dude (6'-6" I believe) while Cueto is much smaller (about 5'10"). Not saying Cueto's actions were justified but he was in a much worse position size wise when the mob came at him. A guy like Rolen or Carpenter is in a much better leverage position in a fight like that then a (relatively) little guy like Cueto.

reds44
08-12-2010, 04:52 PM
I agree with you, but on the other hand, Carpenter is a pretty big dude (6'-6" I believe) while Cueto is much smaller (about 5'10"). Not saying Cueto's actions were justified but he was in a much worse position size wise when the mob came at him. A guy like Rolen or Carpenter is in a much better leverage position in a fight like that then a (relatively) little guy like Cueto.
Carpenter was on in his back against the backstop, he really had no leverage either.

Razor Shines
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
This is probably what I would have done:
Cueto 7 games
Carpenter 4 games
Baker 2 games
TLR 2 games
Phillips 1 game
Molina 1 game

That looks right to me.

The more I read BP's quote I don't think many people would have had a problem if he'd have stopped after the first three sentences, I wouldn't. He could say the rest to his teammates, but not to anyone with a press pass, IMO.

toledodan
08-12-2010, 05:06 PM
I think Major League Baseball is sending the message that it's okay to start a brawl (Carpenter, Molina) but it's not okay to defend yourself (Cueto). JMO.



i can't blame molina for being upset with phillips. if someone ran my team mates down than comes out acting like nothing happened i would be upset to. i think if brandon would have just got into the box and not done his bat touch to molina things may have been ok. carpenter is another story.

reds44
08-12-2010, 05:17 PM
That looks right to me.

The more I read BP's quote I don't think many people would have had a problem if he'd have stopped after the first three sentences, I wouldn't. He could say the rest to his teammates, but not to anyone with a press pass, IMO.
If the Reds would have swept the Cardinals nobody would have had a problem with it.

CTA513
08-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Cueto should be happy all he got was a 7 game suspension and not hurt by the Cardinals for what he did.

SirFelixCat
08-12-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm ok w/ the verdict. TBH, as long as Molina and BP are equal as far as punishment goes, then I have no issue w/ it. I can lament wanting Carpenter and Molina suspended, but meh. And as much as I can see the case being made for Cueto 'defending himself', he did spike guys and I'm ok w/ his suspension.

WVRedsFan
08-12-2010, 06:37 PM
I think it came out about right, except Carpenter, who really made it worse. If Carpenter had gotten 5 days or so, I'd be OK with all of it. I still don't see how Dusty and Larussa get suspensions, though.

The whole thing was started with Phillips running his mouth and he is the one that should have been dealt with harshly. Without Phillips' comments and if he had just turned away from Molina at the plate, nothing would have happened. Nothing. I'm sure I'm in the minority of this, but he just did a stupid, stupid thing. Yes, you hate the Cardinals, but show it on the field, not running your mouth to a sports writer.

Chip R
08-12-2010, 06:39 PM
If I recall how suspensions have been handled in the past, if they make appeal, they continue to play.

MLB then schedules a hearing in NYC (usually the next time the team is in NY), and then make a decision after that.

And if a player decides to drop the appeal, they start the suspension the next game.

So Cueto/Reds can juggle this to make it just one start missed I would think.

I don't think it works like that any more. I'm pretty sure it's handled quicker than that.

SMcGavin
08-12-2010, 06:40 PM
Cueto deserved his suspension. But Carpenter deserved to miss a start too. The fight was escalated by a guy who wasn't even in the game, he just ran out there and started stuff.

BP and Molina also probably should have got a couple of games, but at least their confrontation actually occurred as players in the game (unlike Carpenter).

Chip R
08-12-2010, 07:48 PM
From the Basic Agreement:


C. Special Procedure with Regard to Certain
Disciplinary Action

Complaints involving a fine or suspension imposed upon a Player by
the Vice President, On-Field Operations or the Commissioner for conduct on the playing field or in the ballpark shall be subject exclusively to this Section C as follows:

(1) Any Player who believes that he has a justifiable complaint regarding such discipline may, within 7 days of his receipt of written notification of the discipline, appeal in writing to the Executive Vice President, Administration, if the discipline was imposed by the Vice President, On-Field Operations, or to the Commissioner, if the discipline was imposed by him, for a hearing. Upon receipt of the notice of appeal, the Executive Vice President, Administration or the Commissioner, as the case may be, shall designate a time and place for hearing the appeal, which hearing shall be commenced within 10 days from the date of receipt of the appeal. Unless the appeal involves an incident in which three or more Players were suspended, appeals of (i) a fine equal to or less than $5,000; and/or (ii) a suspension equal to or less than 3 games for a position player or relief pitcher or equal to or less than 5 games for a starting pitcher, shall be held by video conference; provided, however, that, if the Player elects, the hearing shall be held in person and in New York if the Player’s Club is scheduled to be in New York within thirty days from the date of the appeal, or if the Player makes himself available in New York during that 30-day period. Such hearing shall be conducted in accordance with the Rules of Procedure attached hereto as Appendix A. The Executive Vice President, Administration or the Commissioner, as the case may be, shall render a written decision as soon as practicable following the conclusion of such hearing, and may affirm, modify, or revoke the disciplinary action originally imposed. The decision by the Executive Vice President, Administration or the Commissioner, as the case may be, shall constitute full, final and complete disposition of the complaint and shall have the same effect as a Grievance decision of the Arbitration Panel.

mth123
08-12-2010, 08:00 PM
If the Reds would have swept the Cardinals nobody would have had a problem with it.

Wrong. I had a problem with it before the games were played.

Hollcat
08-12-2010, 08:01 PM
I've not read the whole thread so maybe someone else is as surprised as I that Rolen did not get anything. He went through two Cardinal players and an umpire to get to Carpenter after whatever Carpenter said.
I know everyone seems to blame Carpenter for the rekindling of the scrum but he only said something, when Rolen went after him is when the whole thing started again. MLB isn't going to suspend anyone for what they may have said in a situation like that, only those who get physical. Why the managers were suspended I have no idea, that seems crazy.

WVRed
08-12-2010, 08:05 PM
This picture sums it up. Censors won't let me post the original picture:

http://gronarealisten.blogg.se/2008/august/forsakringsfragan.html

klw
08-12-2010, 08:18 PM
I would not be surprised to see Cueto to appeal, make his start this weekend and then drop the appeal. Would allow the Reds more time to line up Wood/ Harng to cover his next turn.

MattyHo4Life
08-12-2010, 10:41 PM
Cueto should be happy all he got was a 7 game suspension and not hurt by the Cardinals for what he did.

I really don't understand why Cueto was even involved in the brawl. If he was hurt during the fight, that would have been really bad for the Reds. Garcia was the pitcher on the mound when the fight started, and he wasn't anywhere ot be found.

redsfandan
08-12-2010, 10:54 PM
It's one thing to question the length of the suspension or whether anyone else should've been suspended but repeatedly kicking other players is an automatic suspension (no matter what the circumstances). That said, I'm really surprised that Phillips, Molina, and Carpenter weren't suspended.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Reds are in St Louis Labor Day weekend.

Chip R
08-12-2010, 10:58 PM
I really don't understand why Cueto was even involved in the brawl. If he was hurt during the fight, that would have been really bad for the Reds. Garcia was the pitcher on the mound when the fight started, and he wasn't anywhere ot be found.

It's a risk a player has to take. If someone like Cueto doesn't get involved - even just by milling about the edges of the scuffle - his teammates may think he's not backing them up. OTOH, if he does get involved - and that goes for any player - they may run the risk of injury.

Tony Cloninger
08-12-2010, 11:06 PM
What was J LaRue doing? He was going after someone ....looked possessed out there.....and I am sorry he got kicked in the head..BUT if someone (NIX?) is not holding him back.....he is going after someone (Cueto?)

CTA513
08-12-2010, 11:09 PM
What was J LaRue doing? He was going after someone ....looked possessed out there.....and I am sorry he got kicked in the head..BUT if someone (NIX?) is not holding him back.....he is going after someone (Cueto?)

LaRue was going in and trying to block people from getting to Carpenter until he started getting kicked then he tried to go after Cueto.

Cedric
08-12-2010, 11:14 PM
LaRue was going in and trying to block people from getting to Carpenter until he started getting kicked then he tried to go after Cueto.

He was an instigator. Maybe next time he will think before he acts like an idiot.

CTA513
08-12-2010, 11:24 PM
He was an instigator. Maybe next time he will think before he acts like an idiot.


The Reds best starting pitcher will miss 1 start because he felt the need to start kicking people after he decided to jump in the middle of the pile.

kaldaniels
08-12-2010, 11:50 PM
It's a risk a player has to take. If someone like Cueto doesn't get involved - even just by milling about the edges of the scuffle - his teammates may think he's not backing them up. OTOH, if he does get involved - and that goes for any player - they may run the risk of injury.

Cueto was way too close. When Dusty and Tony were jawing he was practically in the front row.

marcshoe
08-13-2010, 12:13 AM
No problem with the punishment. No matter his intentions, Cueto did kick people, and as the previous poster noted, he put himself into the middle of the fracas. I wouldn't complain if everyone who joined the fight was fined.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 12:32 AM
It's a risk a player has to take. If someone like Cueto doesn't get involved - even just by milling about the edges of the scuffle - his teammates may think he's not backing them up. OTOH, if he does get involved - and that goes for any player - they may run the risk of injury.

Well...Adam Wainwright told Garcia that it wasn't his fight and to not get involved. The worst thing that could happen is for your best pitcher to get hurt.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 12:38 AM
What was J LaRue doing? He was going after someone ....looked possessed out there.....and I am sorry he got kicked in the head..BUT if someone (NIX?) is not holding him back.....he is going after someone (Cueto?)

I think he was going towards Carpenter. He wanted to protect his pitcher, but got kicked on the way there.

marcshoe
08-13-2010, 12:44 AM
I'm wondering if Carpenter's not the jerk we (me) have made him out to be. He does inspire some loyalty in his team, and Rolen still seems close to him, if you saw the shot of the two of them long before Wednesday's game.

And honestly, I didn't think his post-brawl comments were nearly as jerkish as LaRussa's.

I will admit, btw, that during his time with the Charleston Charlies in the seventies, LaRussa was my favorite player.

redsfandan
08-13-2010, 01:30 AM
And honestly, I didn't think his post-brawl comments were nearly as jerkish as LaRussa's.
Yeah, I really wasn't impressed by LaRussa.

GAC
08-13-2010, 05:14 AM
2. LaRue is NOT on the DL. I checked the Cardinals active roster again, at http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl) and he is not on the DL. They did place Suppan on the DL for unrelated reasons, and call up a third catcher in case one was needed.

I stand corrected. I thought I read earlier where someone said he was heading for the DL after being kicked in the head and possibly having broken ribs. It would make sense since he obviously isn't available to play, possibly for some time, so why keep him on the active roster?

redsfandan
08-13-2010, 05:54 AM
I stand corrected. I thought I read earlier where someone said he was heading for the DL after being kicked in the head and possibly having broken ribs. It would make sense since he obviously isn't available to play, possibly for some time, so why keep him on the active roster?
Maybe they took a page from Walt and are taking a week before deciding whether to DL the player. :p:

bucksfan2
08-13-2010, 08:51 AM
Three things:

1. There were about 60 players that were in the scrum. Cueto is no more culpable than anyone else for being in the fray. He was just unlucky enough to be on the end of the mob that got pushed into the wall, and he reacted out of fear and panic more than anything. He really didn't have time to think much about what he did, he got pushed up on the short wall, and kicked. I can't really attribute what he did to choice as much as instinct. I do think 7 games is a little too much for that.


I went back and watched the video again and I got more irritated with Cueto. When the scrum first broke out he was doing what he should have been as the STARTING PITCHER. He was standing on the outskirts of the pile. With the situation was escalated he found the need to run around side of the scrum and put him self right in the middle of the melee and also right up against the fence. Not only was this stupid considering he was one of the smallest guys in the scrum, but he also was the STARTING PITCHER of the game. I didn't see Garcia having his back up against the backstop.

Johnny has to be smarter than this. It showed after he retook the mound that he was gassed early. He didn't have the same kind of stuff and was relegated to a 5 inning pitcher that day. Johnny has got to learn to be like Wainwright and Garcia and not put yourself in that kind of situation.

REDREAD
08-13-2010, 10:01 AM
In regards to Carpenter.. I am not sure it's appropriate to start handing out suspensions for saying curse words.. Yes, it got everyone mad again, but it's a bad precedent.

Does ML really want to start having to take statements and reading lips so they can properly suspend everyone that says a naughty word during a fight?

I'm not saying Carpenter is completely innocent. He did incite, but it's seems consistent with not suspending Phillips and Molinda..

Ryan the Reds Fan
08-13-2010, 10:51 AM
I really don't understand why Cueto was even involved in the brawl. If he was hurt during the fight, that would have been really bad for the Reds. Garcia was the pitcher on the mound when the fight started, and he wasn't anywhere ot be found.

If you look at the pictures he sure was, he was right there in the pack. At the back of it yes, but so was Cueto, he just happened to be on the wrong side and got pushed to the wall.

Cedric
08-13-2010, 10:54 AM
If you look at the pictures he sure was, he was right there in the pack. At the back of it yes, but so was Cueto, he just happened to be on the wrong side and got pushed to the wall.

I'm really sick of analyzing something this dumb... But if you watch the film you can clearly see Garcia jumping up and down and actually trying to get in front of other teammates.

Can't we just say that plenty of people here acted like idiots and kids? Lets hope the game tonight ends the fight analysis.

OesterPoster
08-13-2010, 11:01 AM
If you look at the pictures he sure was, he was right there in the pack. At the back of it yes, but so was Cueto, he just happened to be on the wrong side and got pushed to the wall.

Yep. Unless the Cardinals have another #54 with the name Garcia on the back of the jersey, then I've got a pretty good idea who that is in the middle of the pack at the 1:36 and 1:39 mark of the video.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/cardinals-reds-fight-braw_n_677966.html

Roy Tucker
08-13-2010, 11:09 AM
This is getting Zapruder-esque.

I think people forget this all happened in seconds and players didn't have time to calmly think it out what they were going to do (well, maybe everyone besides Molina). It was all knee-jerk reactions. Frame-by-frame dissection of the video is all just MMQB.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 12:49 PM
Yep. Unless the Cardinals have another #54 with the name Garcia on the back of the jersey, then I've got a pretty good idea who that is in the middle of the pack at the 1:36 and 1:39 mark of the video.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/cardinals-reds-fight-braw_n_677966.html

I'll have to check that out. They mentioned on the post game that Wainwright got Garcia out of there.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm really sick of analyzing something this dumb... But if you watch the film you can clearly see Garcia jumping up and down and actually trying to get in front of other teammates.

Can't we just say that plenty of people here acted like idiots and kids? Lets hope the game tonight ends the fight analysis.

I think it's really stupid of the starting pitchers for the game that day to be involved. Heck, I was nervous seeing Carpenter out there and he wasn't even starting that day.

MattyHo4Life
08-13-2010, 12:58 PM
I stand corrected. I thought I read earlier where someone said he was heading for the DL after being kicked in the head and possibly having broken ribs. It would make sense since he obviously isn't available to play, possibly for some time, so why keep him on the active roster?

They will probably DL LaRue within the next couple of days to make room for Lohse. They had to do something with Suppan since Lohse is taking over his spot in the rotation.

mdccclxix
08-13-2010, 02:26 PM
Here's an article by the St. Louis Fox channel. They interview LaRue in the video. They think Cueto should have gotten SEVEN GAMES.

http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/08/12/10/Rains-Cuetos-suspension-is-a-joke/landing.html?blockID=289060&feedID=3708

Look, the video shows Cueto pushing away players in a panic, then Larue starts in after Cueto like he's going to kill him, so Cueto becomes violent in return. Not saying Cueto should have kicked as much as he did, but clearly he was instigated by Larue ater simply pushing people away.

I'm surprised this isn't brought up.