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View Full Version : Familiarity Breeds Contempt?



mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Putting aside the fact that our teams are rivals, I think part of the reason things are heated is b/c St. Louis and Cincy are very similar in many ways. Mid-market teams, passionate fan bases, and a history of success spanning several decades. Flame me as a Cards fan if you desire, but I see two similar organizations going at it to the end.

Defacto
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Putting aside the fact that our teams are rivals, I think part of the reason things are heated is b/c St. Louis and Cincy are very similar in many ways. Mid-market teams, passionate fan bases, and a history of success spanning several decades. Flame me as a Cards fan if you desire, but I see two similar organizations going at it to the end.

That's what my thread titled "What separates the Cardinals and Reds?" is all about. Multiple players have played for both teams.

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 05:02 PM
Right now, the only difference (and it's been beaten to death) is top of rotation v. top of rotation. As a Cardinal fan, the one Red pitcher I really like to watch is Arroyo. I'd love to have him in the 3/4 spot b/c the man competes every time out.

CardsFanBob
08-12-2010, 05:20 PM
The Cubs are our historic rivals.

I personally don't consider the Reds our rivals. They may prove to be a "generational" rival, much like the Astros were in the late 90's into much of this past decade. But Cinci is going to need to win and compete with us for a few more years to be a true rival.

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Bob...yes....but it's good to have more rivals...more fun series.

Vottomatic
08-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Good to see a Reds Message Board thread started by a Cardinals fan, and responded to by only Cardinals fans.

We're thinking about changing the name of the site to www.CardinalsZone.com. What do you guys think? :D

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 06:09 PM
...and the thread concerns the Cards/Reds rivalry. I think the Reds are involved there.

Vottomatic
08-12-2010, 06:11 PM
I was just taking notice that this site has suddenly become void of Reds fans and a place for Cardinals fans to hang out.

Not only did they sweep us in this past series, but their fans have swept us on the Sun Deck too. :D

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Vottomatic...priceless reply there.

bshall2105
08-12-2010, 06:12 PM
If you're saying that these teams could be the top two teams in the division for a while then I agree with you. I don't see the Cards having a significant drop off until Pujols retires. The Reds also look like they're built to contend for a while now too.

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 06:14 PM
Looks like a pretty solid start to things this year.

Looks like a few Cards fans have gone trolling...

bshall2105
08-12-2010, 06:16 PM
Has there ever been a brawl of sorts between the Cubs and Cards? I really only pay close attention to the Reds so I don't know how bad those two teams hate eachother.

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 06:18 PM
Cubs and Cards really haven't had any major brawls in my time watching. Mostly it's the fans making noise. Cubs have been so good over the past century that no one is allowed to talk to them.

Razzle
08-12-2010, 06:20 PM
Has there ever been a brawl of sorts between the Cubs and Cards? I really only pay close attention to the Reds so I don't know how bad those two teams hate eachother.

It got pretty heated back in 2003/2004 with Matt Morris, Steve Kline, and Mark Prior having some exchanges and of course the Zambrano/Edmonds incident where Edmonds was beaned twice and in between them homered, but for the most part the two teams haven't been very good at the same time, or at least close in a pennant race late in the season like the Reds/Cards are now.

mckbearcat48
08-12-2010, 06:22 PM
It got pretty heated back in 2003/2004 with Matt Morris, Steve Kline, and Mark Prior having some exchanges and of course the Zambrano/Edmonds incident where Edmonds was beaned twice and in between them homered, but for the most part the two teams haven't been very good at the same time, or at least close in a pennant race late in the season like the Reds/Cards are now.

Zambrano was about the closest with his finger-wagging after a couple key strikeouts. Edmonds hit a ball that hasn't landed yet and watched it for quite a while. Mark Prior stated his disgust for St. Louis like Phillips (minus profanity). Cubs are still upset about Broglio for Brock...

Defacto
08-12-2010, 06:23 PM
Has there ever been a brawl of sorts between the Cubs and Cards? I really only pay close attention to the Reds so I don't know how bad those two teams hate eachother.

Not really. When Dusty managed the Cubs, Tony and him got mad at each other a few times. But the closest Tony's gotten in a fight with Dusty was in the '02 NLCS.

AintlifeGrande
08-12-2010, 07:24 PM
I was just taking notice that this site has suddenly become void of Reds fans and a place for Cardinals fans to hang out.

Not only did they sweep us in this past series, but their fans have swept us on the Sun Deck too. :D

Priceless.

Griffey012
08-12-2010, 08:36 PM
The Cubs are our historic rivals.

I personally don't consider the Reds our rivals. They may prove to be a "generational" rival, much like the Astros were in the late 90's into much of this past decade. But Cinci is going to need to win and compete with us for a few more years to be a true rival.

If you want to have a meaningful rivalry with the Cubs anytime soon that is going to mean not resigning Pujols and getting rid of Carpenter and Wainwright. And maybe trading away Holliday. Gonna take a lot to get down around the Cubs and Pirates :thumbup:

Yadi for Mayor
08-12-2010, 11:21 PM
I like there's a new rivalry, and actually have enjoyed posting over here the last few days. More fun than the "sky is falling" cards fans and ******bag moderators at Stltoday.com

As far the Reds all I can say is at least your not the brewers, you don't untuck your shirts, you don't do ridiculous choreographed walkoff homerun dances, and you don't have a banner celebrating being the "wild card champion". So as long as the most ridiculous thing the Reds do is allow Brandon Phillips to stay on their team I think this can be a friendly rivalry.

Carolina Red
08-12-2010, 11:44 PM
The biggest difference between these two teams is 21 million dollars of payroll. That means the Cards can afford to get and sign a Holliday while we have to settle for an Edmonds.

Yadi for Mayor
08-12-2010, 11:53 PM
The biggest difference between these two teams is 21 million dollars of payroll. That means the Cards can afford to get and sign a Holliday while we have to settle for an Edmonds.

cards media market isn't any bigger than Cincinatti, the difference is the Cardinals sold 3.35 Million tickets, the Reds sold 1.7 million in 2009. That's pretty much half. So bottom line if the Reds had as good as fans as the cardinals do you'd probably have an extra 20 million to spend. In fact the fact that you only spend 20 million less than the cards with half the ticket sales is a testament to Dewitt's cheapness.

Griffey012
08-13-2010, 12:20 AM
I like there's a new rivalry, and actually have enjoyed posting over here the last few days. More fun than the "sky is falling" cards fans and ******bag moderators at Stltoday.com

As far the Reds all I can say is at least your not the brewers, you don't untuck your shirts, you don't do ridiculous choreographed walkoff homerun dances, and you don't have a banner celebrating being the "wild card champion". So as long as the most ridiculous thing the Reds do is allow Brandon Phillips to stay on their team I think this can be a friendly rivalry.

The sky will fall here anytime. It tends to fall a few times a week, but then it is magically back in place after the next game. Pretty sure it's just inevitable with a large group of sports fans anywhere, some in the group are always gonna be fearing the worst, while others are optimistic.

Griffey012
08-13-2010, 12:28 AM
cards media market isn't any bigger than Cincinatti, the difference is the Cardinals sold 3.35 Million tickets, the Reds sold 1.7 million in 2009. That's pretty much half. So bottom line if the Reds had as good as fans as the cardinals do you'd probably have an extra 20 million to spend. In fact the fact that you only spend 20 million less than the cards with half the ticket sales is a testament to Dewitt's cheapness.

I'd like to see the Cardinals fan support if they had 10 straight losing seasons and no playoff appearance since 1995. People don't pay for a crappy product, that doesn't mean the Reds don't have good fans.

couch_manager
08-13-2010, 12:30 AM
cards media market isn't any bigger than Cincinatti, the difference is the Cardinals sold 3.35 Million tickets, the Reds sold 1.7 million in 2009. That's pretty much half. So bottom line if the Reds had as good as fans as the cardinals do you'd probably have an extra 20 million to spend. In fact the fact that you only spend 20 million less than the cards with half the ticket sales is a testament to Dewitt's cheapness.

If you guys had lost for 10 years straight, I reckon it would take some time for the seats at Busch stadium to get full again too.

Defacto
08-13-2010, 12:32 AM
If you guys had lost for 10 years straight, I reckon it would take some time for the seats at Busch stadium to get full again too.

I wasn't alive in the 70's, but the Cardinals didn't make the playoffs at all during the 70's and I think had two winning seasons over that time.

couch_manager
08-13-2010, 12:52 AM
I wasn't alive in the 70's, but the Cardinals didn't make the playoffs at all during the 70's and I think had two winning seasons over that time.

We've had zero winning seasons since 2001. We had a great team in 1999 that won 96 games and still missed the playoffs. We haven't been in the playoffs since 1995. We've had 3 winning seasons since 1993. In comparison, the Cardinal's have had 12 winning seasons since 1993. The Reds have gotten the rap of being perennial losers, so it's no wonder why the Cardinals, year in and year out, pack their stadium and the Reds do not.

Most of our failed seasons have been a result of ownership not willing to spend the money to win. The Cardinals have not been nearly as tight-wadded.

FWIW, the Cardinals had 5 winning seasons in the '70s and finished 2nd 3 times.

Defacto
08-13-2010, 01:01 AM
We've had zero winning seasons since 2001. We had a great team in 1999 that won 96 games and still missed the playoffs. We haven't been in the playoffs since 1995. We've had 3 winning seasons since 1993. In comparison, the Cardinal's have had 12 winning seasons since 1993. The Reds have gotten the rap of being perennial losers, so it's no wonder why the Cardinals, year in and year out, pack their stadium and the Reds do not.

Most of our failed seasons have been a result of ownership not willing to spend the money to win. The Cardinals have not been nearly as tight-wadded.

FWIW, the Cardinals had 5 winning seasons in the '70s and finished 2nd 3 times.

Didn't know that they had 5 winning seasons in the '70's. Anyways, the Reds are really close to turning it around and I know winning is the reason why people go to the game.

Defacto
08-13-2010, 01:03 AM
The sky will fall here anytime. It tends to fall a few times a week, but then it is magically back in place after the next game. Pretty sure it's just inevitable with a large group of sports fans anywhere, some in the group are always gonna be fearing the worst, while others are optimistic.

Samething can be said about the Royals. They had one winning season in 2003 and haven't made the playoffs since 1985.