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View Full Version : Philly is a Monster



Phhhl
08-12-2010, 11:07 PM
The Reds game we blew up by six in the ninth, and tonight against the Dodgers show that this Phillies team thinks very highly of themselves, and justifiably so. If Philly doesn't get the Wild Card, Atlanta has a signifigant lead for it. Philadelphia is missing three outstanding position players due to injury, all of whom are due back soon, and are still DOMINATING good teams right now. The Cardinals are a shadow of this Philadelphia squad.

The Reds have to forget about the Wild Card. There is no doubt in my mind now that it is coming out of the NL East at this point. And so, the Labor Day weekend series in St. Louis is "the season". The Cardinals are not good enough to run away with it on paper, but a repeat of this week's performance by the Reds on Labor Day weekend would be the death knell. Two out of three is absolutely mandatory in that series by the good guys. Our talent may be demonstrably better than St. Louis across the entire roster and we all probably agree about that, but we still have to prove it when the stakes are high. If the last three days didn't convince you that youth and inexperience can work against you, I don't know what will.

GADawg
08-12-2010, 11:34 PM
on XM there always playing the game "who does this tell me more about" and tonight's game makes me wonder if it tells me more about Philly or L.A.?

WVRedsFan
08-12-2010, 11:47 PM
Could you believe that Torre just stood there and let that happen with Broxton? I would have emptied the bullpen to at least make an effort, but that's just me. Thee managers that turn it over to the closer (cough, cough) and watch an explosion just drive me nuts. It might not have made a difference, but I think it would have.

Big Klu
08-13-2010, 12:14 AM
Could you believe that Torre just stood there and let that happen with Broxton? I would have emptied the bullpen to at least make an effort, but that's just me. Thee managers that turn it over to the closer (cough, cough) and watch an explosion just drive me nuts. It might not have made a difference, but I think it would have.

It's the way the game is managed today. In the 70's and even the 80's it was common to have two or three relievers rack up some saves, and the manager would feel comfortable with any of them. Sparky had Eastwick, McEnaney, Carroll, and Borbon. Lou had Myers, Dibble, and Charlton. But now "the book" says that everyone must have a specifically defined role, and any deviation from those assigned roles is a Vote of No Confidence in the closer, which then gets his agent on the phone because you have taken opportunities from his client, which will hurt him come contract time. Also, no manager is going to stray from the tenets of "the book", because it will open him up to second-guessing.

I once got into a friendly argument with one of my friends who is a Tribe fan about the 1997 World Series. Jose Mesa had been very shaky (almost Corderoesque) that postseason, and I mentioned that I knew the Indians were in trouble in Game 7 when they brought him in to close. I said that I would have brought in Orel Hershiser to finish the game, because he was a bulldog and a warrior who had been to the mountaintop, and knew what it would take to win. He was adamant that Mesa was The Man in the ninth inning, and you can't deviate from that role. He said, "What if Orel had failed? Then they would still be second-guessing the move. You have to go with the closer." I responded with this, "Byung-Hyun Kim was The Man in the ninth for the D-Backs in 2001, but when it came to crunch time in Game 7, Bob Brenly didn't go with his closer--his so-called 'best reliever'. He went with his best pitcher--PERIOD. He went with Randy Johnson. And the D-backs have a World Championship--something the Tribe hasn't won since 1948."

Tornon
08-13-2010, 12:26 AM
Have you seen the highlight with the kid behind the Phillies dugout that was casting his little curse on Broxton each pitch? I blame this game on him. That kid can't possibly make it to all the Phillies' games.. I think we're fine

Mario-Rijo
08-13-2010, 08:22 AM
Philly is a monster and it's just a matter of time before they run away with the NL. They have their starting 3 which is just as good if not better than any other in the NL and they have IMO the best offensive team, along with a pretty solid defense and running game. Unless they happen to slump in the playoffs they have this thing sewn up. Perhaps another Philly & Tampa Bay WS? Although I want to add that I think if anyone can beat them it's the Rockies who just seem to match up well with them so I hope the Rox win the W/C.

The Reds had better win the central if they want any shot of playing a 2nd playoff series, assuming they have enough to make it in and then past a 1st opponent in the first place. I also happen to think the WC will now come out of the West with Chippers injury dropping the Braves slowly out of it. San Fran, S.D. or Colorado, one will win the west and the other will be the W/C and probably have to face the Phillies in the 1st round.

Screwball
08-13-2010, 08:38 AM
Philly is a monster and it's just a matter of time before they run away with the NL. They have their starting 3 which is just as good if not better than any other in the NL and they have IMO the best offensive team, along with a pretty solid defense and running game.


I would certainly take the Cards' top three over any team in the NL and not think twice, but point well taken. They have the starting hammers to shut down an opposing offense in a short playoff series.


Unless they happen to slump in the playoffs they have this thing sewn up. Perhaps another Philly & Tampa Bay WS? Although I want to add that I think if anyone can beat them it's the Rockies who just seem to match up well with them so I hope the Rox win the W/C.


They're good, but let's not crown them just yet. I mean, they might've swept the Reds (in Philly) the last time they played, but it took 4 nailbiters and an epic collapse for them to do so. From what I could tell, they were pretty evenly matched. Also, if the Phils lose in the postseason you can't just chalk it up to them slumping. The other team will have had something to do with outplaying them.

TheNext44
08-13-2010, 08:45 AM
With Atlanta losing Chipper, they could miss the playoffs completely. That's a huge loss for them, and they don't have a decent in house solution.

Ghosts of 1990
08-13-2010, 08:52 AM
With Atlanta losing Chipper, they could miss the playoffs completely. That's a huge loss for them, and they don't have a decent in house solution.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2010.shtml

Chipper was hitting .265 with an OPS of .808

Omar Infante and Brooks Conrad are both within that range. Chipper wasn't a huge loss in terms of production.

_Sir_Charles_
08-13-2010, 08:53 AM
They're good, but let's not crown them just yet. I mean, they might've swept the Reds (in Philly) the last time they played, but it took 4 nailbiters and an epic collapse for them to do so. From what I could tell, they were pretty evenly matched. Also, if the Phils lose in the postseason you can't just chalk it up to them slumping. The other team will have had something to do with outplaying them.

While this is all true, let's not forget that they had some key people out for that series against us (Utley and somebody else whom I'm forgetting right now) and they hadn't gotten Oswalt yet. If they get healthy (big IF, I know) they're much better than they were when they swept us.

Mario-Rijo
08-13-2010, 10:41 AM
I would certainly take the Cards' top three over any team in the NL and not think twice, but point well taken. They have the starting hammers to shut down an opposing offense in a short playoff series.

I wouldn't take the Cards top 3 because for one I doubt Garcia will be one of them come the playoffs. 2011 yeah I'd give the edge to the Cards but this year I'd rather have Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt.



They're good, but let's not crown them just yet. I mean, they might've swept the Reds (in Philly) the last time they played, but it took 4 nailbiters and an epic collapse for them to do so. From what I could tell, they were pretty evenly matched. Also, if the Phils lose in the postseason you can't just chalk it up to them slumping. The other team will have had something to do with outplaying them.

While true it was without their best player and another very intrical part of their lineup in Utley and Polanco. Really I thought we should have won a couple of those with Utley out & Ibanez struggling. Ibanez bucked up in the clutch once as did Howard but we really let their weaker offensive guys beat us. For some reason the Rockies give them some trouble when I have watched the 2 go at it but I have yet to see anyone else give them much trouble when they are on their game the last couple of years.

Screwball
08-13-2010, 11:03 AM
I wouldn't take the Cards top 3 because for one I doubt Garcia will be one of them come the playoffs. 2011 yeah I'd give the edge to the Cards but this year I'd rather have Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt.


I guess it all depends on what one thinks of Garcia. I've been waiting for him to get lit up for what seems like all season, but other than 1 blowup it just hasn't happened. I've resigned myself to the expectation that he'll be true to his remaining ZIPS projection of mid-3ish ERA and FIP, which would be almost exactly where Oswalt is.

Halladay and Carpenter are a virtual wash IMO, so that leaves Wainwright and Hamels. While Hamels dominated a couple years ago in the playoffs, there's little debate Wainwright's been the superior pitcher in 2010. He could very well win the Cy Young this year, and that speaks volumes given the ridiculous seasons some other pitchers (Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Carp, Halladay, etc.) are having.

Of course, having said all that, I can see the other side of the coin too. Oswalt's got a boatload of experience over Garcia, and Hamels has dazzled in the postseason before. Halladay is borderline unfair, and in a short series facing that threesome will give teams nightmares. But I know I, for one, wouldn't mind the Reds having those nightmares.

Mario-Rijo
08-13-2010, 11:09 AM
I guess it all depends on what one thinks of Garcia. I've been waiting for him to get lit up for what seems like all season, but other than 1 blowup it just hasn't happened. I've resigned myself to the expectation that he'll be true to his remaining ZIPS projection of mid-3ish ERA and FIP, which would be almost exactly where Oswalt is.

Halladay and Carpenter are a virtual wash IMO, so that leaves Wainwright and Hamels. While Hamels dominated a couple years ago in the playoffs, there's little debate Wainwright's been the superior pitcher in 2010. He could very well win the Cy Young this year, and that speaks volumes given the ridiculous seasons some other pitchers (Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Carp, Halladay, etc.) are having.

Of course, having said all that, I can see the other side of the coin too. Oswalt's got a boatload of experience over Garcia, and Hamels has dazzled in the postseason before. Halladay is borderline unfair, and in a short series facing that threesome will give teams nightmares. But I know I, for one, wouldn't mind the Reds having those nightmares.

All true just think Lohse (if healthy) will be in Garcia's slot come the playoffs with Garcia throwing an important high leverage later inning here and there out of the pen. If Lohse isn't healthy Westbrook is their likely 3rd.

Yeah would love the Reds to play in the playoffs regardless but I'd still like to play the Cards if I had my druthers for a host of reasons obviously.