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View Full Version : Pete Rose In Attendance and Honored At GAPB in September?



Dom Heffner
08-13-2010, 09:26 PM
Not sure if this has been posted but watching the Reds play on the Marlins's network here in Tampa and they just repoted that Bud Selig has approved the Reds honoring of Rose breaking Ty Cobb's record.

Both Selig and Rose supposedly will be there.

savafan
08-13-2010, 09:30 PM
Interesting...

You know, this will only spark up the reinstatement discussion once again.

Dom Heffner
08-13-2010, 09:35 PM
The ceremony is scheduled for September 11th according to our announcers.

Joseph
08-13-2010, 09:35 PM
The ceremony is scheduled for September 11th according to our announcers.

IE the 25th anniversary of the hit.

Phhhl
08-14-2010, 12:38 AM
Sounds like a great night to me. With any luck it will be a packed house watching a first place baseball team honoring, probably, the single most signifigant player in the history of the franchise.

RedRoser
08-15-2010, 06:19 PM
:beerme:
Well said Santo. Well said indeed. I may just have to look for tickets for that game.

GADawg
08-15-2010, 06:26 PM
would be a great venue for Selig to announce that he has taken his head out of his arse and reinstated 'ole Pete! btw I can't believe Pete hasn't been pimping "just for men".

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2010, 09:36 PM
As soon I heard about this I started making plans to attend the game. We're planning on buying our tickets sometime this week. Hopefully it will be a packed house watching a first place team.

Ron Madden
08-16-2010, 02:49 AM
Has there been any official announcement from the Reds about this?

I think it's a great idea that should guarantee a packed house.

sabometrics
08-16-2010, 04:15 AM
Wow. This plus a pennant race would make this the most anticipated Reds v. Pirates game since GABP opened.

Reds Fanatic
08-19-2010, 05:19 PM
Some details are starting to come out. This is from John Fay. There will definetly be a ceremony but apparently it can't be on September 11th because Rose already has an apperance scheduled at Hollywood Casino (Insert gambling joke here). So it may happen the next day September 12th. Exact details should be announced soon.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/08/19/reds-get-permission-to-honor-rose/

Red in Chicago
08-19-2010, 05:31 PM
Some details are starting to come out. This is from John Fay. There will definetly be a ceremony but apparently it can't be on September 11th because Rose already has an apperance scheduled at Hollywood Casino (Insert gambling joke here). So it may happen the next day September 12th. Exact details should be announced soon.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/08/19/reds-get-permission-to-honor-rose/

Thanks for the update. I almost pulled the trigger last night for tickets to the 11th game, but glad I didn't now.

George Anderson
08-19-2010, 05:40 PM
There will definetly be a ceremony but apparently it can't be on September 11th because Rose already has an apperance scheduled at Hollywood Casino (Insert gambling joke here).

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/08/19/reds-get-permission-to-honor-rose/

My God this man never ceases to amaze me.

I would rather chew broken glass then sit thru this event.

westofyou
08-19-2010, 05:41 PM
My God this man never ceases to amaze me.

I would rather chew broken glass then sit thru this event.

And wash it down with battery acid.

Dan
08-19-2010, 05:42 PM
Cool. I'm planning to be at the game on the 11th. It'll be the 25th anniversary of my being at the game when Rose broke the record. :)

macro
08-19-2010, 06:47 PM
We have tickets to the September 11 game, which will be our only trip to GAB this season. Looks like we'll miss the ceremony by one day.

It's par for the course for me as a Reds fan. I was at Riverfront the day AFTER Pete shoved umpire Dave Pallone and was at the stadium the day AFTER Tom Browning's perfect game.

I(heart)Freel
08-19-2010, 06:52 PM
We have tickets to the September 11 game, which will be our only trip to GAB this season. Looks like we'll miss the ceremony by one day.

It's par for the course for me as a Reds fan. I was at Riverfront the day AFTER Pete shoved umpire Dave Pallone and was at the stadium the day AFTER Tom Browning's perfect game.

Would you mind buying tickets to Game Eight of this year's World Series?

Always Red
08-19-2010, 07:02 PM
Some details are starting to come out. This is from John Fay. There will definetly be a ceremony but apparently it can't be on September 11th because Rose already has an apperance scheduled at Hollywood Casino (Insert gambling joke here). So it may happen the next day September 12th. Exact details should be announced soon.


So, Rose can't make it because he has a prior commitment at a casino.

Priceless!

Wait until the national boys catch wind of this info; the man has become a complete caricature of himself, a cartoon character.

Maybe it just hurts me because this clown was once my boyhood hero? :(

George Anderson
08-19-2010, 07:12 PM
So, Rose can't make it because he has a prior commitment at a casino.

Priceless!

Wait until the national boys catch wind of this info; the man has become a complete caricature of himself, a cartoon character.

Maybe it just hurts me because this clown was once my boyhood hero? :(

When i first saw the post that mentioned Pete was having to reschedule because of a conflict with a casino date I thought it was a joke. I mean what person with any type of dignity or self respect would snub his lifelong fans and former team in order to make a few bucks at a casino? Then I realized who we were talking about.:rolleyes:

johngalt
08-19-2010, 08:46 PM
When i first saw the post that mentioned Pete was having to reschedule because of a conflict with a casino date I thought it was a joke. I mean what person with any type of dignity or self respect would snub his lifelong fans and former team in order to make a few bucks at a casino? Then I realized who we were talking about.:rolleyes:

To be fair, the commitment to the casino was made a long, long time ago. It wasn't like he chose the casino over doing something with the Reds. It's supposed to be a roast with a bunch of Big Red Machine guys there and some others like Dave Parker.

Yachtzee
08-19-2010, 09:09 PM
To be fair, the commitment to the casino was made a long, long time ago. It wasn't like he chose the casino over doing something with the Reds. It's supposed to be a roast with a bunch of Big Red Machine guys there and some others like Dave Parker.

If Pete were serious about reconfiguring his life, I think the first step would be to never set foot in another casino. It's like some one with a drinking problem hanging out in bars all the time.

Roy Tucker
08-19-2010, 09:36 PM
Nice to see he has his priorities straight. What a stupidly tragic story he is.

I'm sure he'll say his casino gig is a contractually-bound gig that was signed before he knew about this and there is nothing he can do. blah blah blah ....

Reds1
08-19-2010, 10:47 PM
I got to about 4 games a year and just happen to have tickets for this game. Very cool.

johngalt
08-20-2010, 12:20 AM
Nice to see he has his priorities straight. What a stupidly tragic story he is.

I'm sure he'll say his casino gig is a contractually-bound gig that was signed before he knew about this and there is nothing he can do. blah blah blah ....

He'll say it because it's the truth.

johngalt
08-20-2010, 12:21 AM
If Pete were serious about reconfiguring his life, I think the first step would be to never set foot in another casino. It's like some one with a drinking problem hanging out in bars all the time.

Not arguing that point at all. My only point was that it wasn't about "turning his back on his fans for a payoff" as someone suggested.

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 01:07 AM
Not arguing that point at all. My only point was that it wasn't about "turning his back on his fans for a payoff" as someone suggested.

This is the same man who lied to his fans for 14 years and then after admitting he lied to them told them to buy his book to get the details. Yea I guess Pete is above using people to make a profit.

Caveat Emperor
08-20-2010, 01:21 AM
My God this man never ceases to amaze me.

I would rather chew broken glass then sit thru this event.

Honestly, the Reds should just plan to hold the ceremony on the night of the anniversary. Tell Pete he either shows up for his own party or he doesn't -- but either way, the team isn't going to shuffle an event around to accommodate Pete's arrangements with casinos.

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 01:29 AM
Honestly, the Reds should just plan to hold the ceremony on the night of the anniversary. Tell Pete he either shows up for his own party or he doesn't -- but either way, the team isn't going to shuffle an event around to accommodate Pete's arrangements with casinos.

I can see Pete's eyes lighting up at the thought of a bidding war for his appearance. Maybe if Bob C. would split the gate with Pete he might grace us with an appearance.

cumberlandreds
08-20-2010, 07:48 AM
Honestly, the Reds should just plan to hold the ceremony on the night of the anniversary. Tell Pete he either shows up for his own party or he doesn't -- but either way, the team isn't going to shuffle an event around to accommodate Pete's arrangements with casinos.

That what I would do too. Rose will never learn from his mistakes or problems.

RBA
08-20-2010, 08:11 AM
Maybe Rose can do a live remote feed from the Casino on September 11. ;)

Roy Tucker
08-20-2010, 09:15 AM
He'll say it because it's the truth.

Sorry, I was venting. It is the truth.

I wonder how long ago this casino appearance was scheduled?

Heath
08-20-2010, 09:29 AM
Wouldn't surprise me if they moved the game to 1:15pm.

They'll figure something out.

bucksfan2
08-20-2010, 09:42 AM
If Pete chooses the Casino over the Reds I will officially say "screw him" and be done with Pete.

It is within Pete's constitutional right to spend time at a casino. I don't have a problem with people who like to go to casino's. But if Pete wanted back in baseball as bad as he says he does he wouldn't spend time at Casino's or race tracks. He wouldn't pass up the opportunity to be honored on field to do a casino event. Pete is and has always been his own worst enemy.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 10:02 AM
If Pete chooses the Casino over the Reds I will officially say "screw him" and be done with Pete.


Pete has already chosen numerous things over the reds, his fans and baseball, it's fast becoming his legacy as more and more of his fans get grey and the days on the field get smaller and smaller in the rearview mirror.

A great tragedy in my life as a baseball fan.

Caveat Emperor
08-20-2010, 10:11 AM
Pete has already chosen numerous things over the reds, his fans and baseball, it's fast becoming his legacy as more and more of his fans get grey and the days on the field get smaller and smaller in the rearview mirror.

A great tragedy in my life as a baseball fan.

Pete has two great loves in his life: money and what he sees in the mirror every day. You'll note that neither one of those revolves around the game played between the white lines.

If Pete really cared about the game of baseball -- if managing and being part of the game really meant a thing to him -- he'd have taken the necessary steps to be reinstated decades ago and would've made changes to his life and lifestyle. Pete's path back to baseball was never difficult, even in the years directly after his ban; he just had (and continues to have) different priorities.

It's well past time for Reds fans and the Reds organization to move on and stop trying to embrace the man.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2010, 10:16 AM
According to this article Pete is appearing at the casino on 10th and 11th and will be appearing with several former Reds players on the night of the 11th.

http://www.kypost.com/dpp/sports/baseball/reds/reds-to-honor-pete-rose-for-historical-hit1282302087251


The casino says Rose will be joined by fellow Reds legends Tony Perez, George Foster, Ken Griffey Sr., Cesar Geronimo, Tom Browning, Pete Rose Jr. and Jon Warden during Saturday night's festivities.

Chip R
08-20-2010, 10:29 AM
Who is Jon Warden?

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 10:30 AM
According to this article Pete is appearing at the casino on 10th and 11th and will be appearing with several former Reds players on the night of the 11th.

http://www.kypost.com/dpp/sports/baseball/reds/reds-to-honor-pete-rose-for-historical-hit1282302087251

Hollywood Casino is also featuring as entertainment this month a Patsy Cline impersonator and an Elvis Presley impersonator. Also it bears to mention that DJ Jake will also be a featured entertainer one night also. Pete by aligning himself with these legendary performers has once again brought an incredible amount of dignity to himself and his title as Hit King.

http://www.hollywoodindiana.com/sitemng/ents

Chip R
08-20-2010, 10:33 AM
Hollywood Casino is also featuring as entertainment this month a Patsy Cline impersonator and an Elvis Presley impersonator. Also it bears to mention that DJ Jake will also be featured as the featured entertainer one night also. Pete by aligning himself with these legendary performers has once again brought an incredible amount of dignity to himself and his title as Hit King.

http://www.hollywoodindiana.com/sitemng/ents (http://www.hollywoodindiana.com/sitemng/ents)


Maybe he should have a Pete rose impersonator there instead. ;)

On the slight chance Pete was ever inducted into the National Baseball HOF, I wonder if he would attend the induction ceremonies if there were a conflict with a casino appearance that day

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 10:43 AM
Maybe he should have a Pete rose impersonator there instead. ;)

On the slight chance Pete was ever inducted into the National Baseball HOF, I wonder if he would attend the induction ceremonies if there were a conflict with a casino appearance that day

I am dead serious when I say if it was possible he would have a hat on with a corporate logo during his Induction Speech. Or at the very least he would mention several sponsors during his speech all in order to cash in.

Within 24 hours the hat, jacket, shirt and socks that he wore during the event would be on Ebay.

Mainspark
08-20-2010, 10:55 AM
Jon Warden, listed as one of the "Reds legends" appearing at the casino with Pete, is presumably the former Detroit Tigers pitcher who went 4-1 with three saves in 1968, his only season in the big leagues.
Can't figure this out, unless Warden later changed his name to Pedro Borbon or Don Gullett.

Hoosier Red
08-20-2010, 11:18 AM
Did he give up a significant hit to Pete like #1,000?

_Sir_Charles_
08-20-2010, 11:22 AM
Nice to see he has his priorities straight. What a stupidly tragic story he is.

I'm sure he'll say his casino gig is a contractually-bound gig that was signed before he knew about this and there is nothing he can do. blah blah blah ....

just to clarify, there's nothing said by Pete that he WON'T make the 11th. It's all speculation on Fay's part at this point. But it IS a prior commitment.

Heath
08-20-2010, 11:51 AM
Who is Jon Warden?

Camp instructor-former Indian Hill Baseball Coach -

Here's the bio-


Jon Warden

Played for:
Detroit Tigers (1966-1969)
Kansas City Royals (1969-1970)
Bats: Both
Throws: Left

Jon Warden was drafted as a fourth round draft pick by the Detroit Tigers’ in 1966. He was a member of the Tiger’s World Championship team in 1968, going 4-1 with 3 saves. Warden was then drafted by the Kansas City Royals in the 1969 expansion draft as their 6th overall pick. After suffering from a persistent torn rotator cuff, Warden attended Ohio State University, graduating in 1975.

He went on to become the Varsity baseball coach at Indian Hill High School, holding the record for most wins, and a pitching coach at the University of Cincinnati. He was the Camp Director for the John Franco Camp and the Jose Rijo camp. In 2004, he was a baseball analyst for ESPN’s Cold Pizza. For the past five years he has been the assistant director and emcee for the MLB’s All-Star Fantasy Camp and has been assistant director of the Hall of Fame Fantasy Camp for the past four years. Most recently he has been the pitching coach for the Long Beach Armada of the Golden Baseball League from 2005-2007.

RedsBaron
08-20-2010, 12:20 PM
I am dead serious when I say if it was possible he would have a hat on with a corporate logo during his Induction Speech. Or at the very least he would mention several sponsors during his speech all in order to cash in.

Within 24 hours the hat, jacket, shirt and socks that he wore during the event would be on Ebay.

IIRC, when Ted Williams appeared at the all star game in Boston a decade or so ago (1998?), instead of wearing a Red Sox cap he had on a cap promoting his hitters museum or something like that.
Edit: It was the 1999 all star game. While from the photos I found online I can't read the logo on the cap Teddy Ballgame was wearing, it sure wasn't a Red Sox cap.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Well put yourself in his shoes. He has been offered to appear along with other Reds player to promote a brand or business. For him to void that commitment would be negative feedback from him and may not lead to other work down the road. He doesn't work for the Reds and has to make money any way he can. The Reds should work around those obligations. I just wish they'd announce the day so I can get tickets.

RedsBaron
08-20-2010, 12:38 PM
Well put yourself in his shoes. He has been offered to appear along with other Reds player to promote a brand or business. For him to void that commitment would be negative feedback from him and may not lead to other work down the road. He doesn't work for the Reds and has to make Manet any way he can. The Reds should work around those obligations. I just wish they'd announce the day so I can get tickets.

Good point, not that I excuse Rose for all of his excesses.
I also wonder when the Reds and MLB decided to invite Rose to a ceremony to mark the 25th anniversary of his 4192nd hit. The Reds and MLB have had, what, exactly 25 years advance notice of when this anniversary would be. Should they have contacted Rose sooner, so he wouldn't have a prior committment (such as it is)?

westofyou
08-20-2010, 12:55 PM
Well put yourself in his shoes. He has been offered to appear along with other Reds player to promote a brand or business. For him to void that commitment would be negative feedback from him and may not lead to other work down the road. He doesn't work for the Reds and has to make money any way he can. The Reds should work around those obligations. I just wish they'd announce the day so I can get tickets.

Someone always has Pete's back.

Granted he isn't employed by baseball, he doesn't owe baseball or Reds fans anything at all.

But nevertheless someone will always cover his arse.

It's almost as big a part of his legacy as the Moe Fine haircut.

bucksfan2
08-20-2010, 01:14 PM
Well put yourself in his shoes. He has been offered to appear along with other Reds player to promote a brand or business. For him to void that commitment would be negative feedback from him and may not lead to other work down the road. He doesn't work for the Reds and has to make money any way he can. The Reds should work around those obligations. I just wish they'd announce the day so I can get tickets.

Pete has said that he would walk through fire with a gasoline suit on to play baseball. He has made his point that he wants back in the game that he loves. He loves baseball and wants to be associated with baseball. Pete may say he wants back in but he keeps doing things that contradict that. If you want back in the game don't hang out in and around casino's and dog tracks. Don't live in Las Vegas, don't talk on the Howard Stern show about your "sex life" with a Playboy playmate.

Legally Pete is doing nothing wrong. If he wants to honor his commitment to Hollywood Casino that is his prerogative. But if he ever wants back in baseball he needs to rearrange his priorities.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2010, 01:28 PM
Someone always has Pete's back.

Granted he isn't employed by baseball, he doesn't owe baseball or Reds fans anything at all.

But nevertheless someone will always cover his arse.

It's almost as big a part of his legacy as the Moe Fine haircut.

Well you have to also make a living. I'm not covering his arse. I'm just saying it isn't as simple as saying the Cincinnati Reds want to me in attendance on 9/11 and I hope you don't mind if I void 1/2 my commitment to you. It would serve the same purpose on the 12th as it would on the 11th. It might spike attendance for a Sunday game.

What if the Reds were on the road on that weekend? I just don't understand why people don't get this? Atheletes are so glorified that if they don't do something or object to something they get thrown under the bus.

Chip R
08-20-2010, 01:33 PM
It's almost as big a part of his legacy as the Moe Fine haircut.


Moe Howard. Larry's last name was Fine.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 01:33 PM
Atheletes are so glorified that if they don't do something or object to something they get thrown under the bus.
Make a living eh?

You've heard of Pete Rose right?

It's the fans with the tire tracks on their back in this relationship.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 01:33 PM
Moe Howard. Larry's last name was Fine.

Duh... now that's a gaffe!!

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Well you have to also make a living. I'm not covering his arse. I'm just saying it isn't as simple as saying the Cincinnati Reds want to me in attendance on 9/11 and I hope you don't mind if I void 1/2 my commitment to you. It would serve the same purpose on the 12th as it would on the 11th. It might spike attendance for a Sunday game.

What if the Reds were on the road on that weekend? I just don't understand why people don't get this? Atheletes are so glorified that if they don't do something or object to something they get thrown under the bus.

Pete is putting the very thing that hurt him and his fans at the top of his priority list which is gambling. I have a hard time believing the casino would not understand had Pete went to them and asked to move the date back so it could accomodate him going to GABP and celebrate one of the most significant records in baseball history. The casino event will go on whether it is the actual date or not. Yes the on field event can also go on whether it is the actual date or not but it will be at the price of making Pete looking incredibly clueless once again. Instead Pete will do further damage to his reputation by letting the pundits mock him for putting a casino appearance before the celebration of a historical event.

Chip R
08-20-2010, 01:48 PM
Pete is putting the very thing that hurt him and his fans at the top of his priority list which is gambling. I have a hard time believing the casino would not understand had Pete went to them and asked to move the date back so it could accomodate him going to GABP and celebrate one of the most significant records in baseball history. The casino event will go on whether it is the actual date or not. Yes the on field event can also go on whether it is the actual date or not but it will be at the price of making Pete looking incredibly clueless once again. Instead Pete will do further damage to his reputation by letting the pundits mock him for putting a casino appearance before the celebration of a historical event.

Well said.

Caseyfan21
08-20-2010, 02:06 PM
Not sure why people are all over Rose for this one. If I had retired from my former job and taken a new job, I would certainly be commited to my new job before I rearranged my schedule for an event that wasn't planned very far in advance at my old job. It's not like the Reds didn't have many years to get this thing planned. Ultimately, this ceremony will benefit the Reds more than it will Pete anyways. They make the money off the ticket sales and increased national interest in the game. Maybe Pete gets thrown a few dollars and gets his name in the media but he certainly doesn't have an issue accomplishing either of those right now.

And I understand the whole conflict of interest between the casinos and baseball but to me personally, I can separate what he did on the field with how he chooses to live his life off of it. If Pete wants to sign his name and people are willing to pay for it then more power to him, plenty of other former ballplayers do it too. And where he chooses to do that is his business and his reputation on the line. I can't fault him for maximizing the status and profit his name brings because there are thousands of other celebrities who do the same thing. And if he's ok with the results of his actions (no chance to get reinstated) then all I can do is wish he would get "it".

westofyou
08-20-2010, 02:08 PM
Not sure why people are all over Rose for this one.


Yeah it's a real head scratcher


http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2004/0112_large.jpg

Unassisted
08-20-2010, 02:08 PM
I don't see what's so magical about commemorating this anniversary on the exact day. For a significant commemoration "25 years ago yesterday" is just as relevant as "25 years ago today." It shouldn't matter what the conflict is, if it's a contractual obligation.

I'm far from a Pete Rose apologist, but I disapprove more of how Bud Selig has treated him. I don't see how Pete could have imagined in his wildest dreams that MLB would deign to commemorate the anniversary of his biggest hit, based on the stone wall that Bud has already erected on Pete's involvement in the game. I don't fault Pete for scheduling another immovable commitment on that date. The real shame here is that Pete's event isn't televised live, by a network that doesn't have the MLB contract. That would have given him a nice payday for the year. He still needs to eat and feed his family.

I half expect MLB to commemorate the occasion on the anniversary without him in the ballpark. Maybe that would be the best solution of all.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2010, 02:18 PM
Pete is putting the very thing that hurt him and his fans at the top of his priority list which is gambling. I have a hard time believing the casino would not understand had Pete went to them and asked to move the date back so it could accomodate him going to GABP and celebrate one of the most significant records in baseball history. The casino event will go on whether it is the actual date or not. Yes the on field event can also go on whether it is the actual date or not but it will be at the price of making Pete looking incredibly clueless once again. Instead Pete will do further damage to his reputation by letting the pundits mock him for putting a casino appearance before the celebration of a historical event.

He isn't gambling.. He is with other former Cincinnati Reds players. It's the old saying "damned if you do; damned if you don't"

George Anderson
08-20-2010, 02:22 PM
He isn't gambling.. He is with other former Cincinnati Reds players. "

Do you think if Otis Campbell was in a bar he would be drinking Sprite?

westofyou
08-20-2010, 02:22 PM
YouTube - Tom Gill Chevrolet Wants You to have Dinner with Pete Rose!.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1DuM88Prs&feature=player_embedded)

Roy Tucker
08-20-2010, 04:48 PM
Do you think if Otis Campbell was in a bar he would be drinking Sprite?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Smith_(actor)

Ironically, he was a teetotaler.

Roy Tucker
08-20-2010, 04:49 PM
Duh... now that's a gaffe!!

"Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard"

johngalt
08-20-2010, 11:28 PM
This is the same man who lied to his fans for 14 years and then after admitting he lied to them told them to buy his book to get the details. Yea I guess Pete is above using people to make a profit.

That has nothing to do with what I was commenting on.

Someone said that Pete was basically turning his back on Reds fans by accepting the casino event invite instead of being honored by the Reds. My point was that it's not "turning his back on" anyone when he was asked by the casino and made a commitment to them well in advance of the Reds event.

George Anderson
08-21-2010, 12:32 AM
That has nothing to do with what I was commenting on.

Someone said that Pete was basically turning his back on Reds fans by accepting the casino event invite instead of being honored by the Reds. My point was that it's not "turning his back on" anyone when he was asked by the casino and made a commitment to them well in advance of the Reds event.

Commitment to a casino over his fans....Yes I understand.

We all know Pete is about commitments.

johngalt
08-21-2010, 09:35 AM
Commitment to a casino over his fans....Yes I understand.

We all know Pete is about commitments.

Wow. You're just bound and determined to lay this one all at his feet.

Always Red
08-21-2010, 10:17 AM
Wow. You're just bound and determined to lay this one all at his feet.

I'm with George.

Rose has a golden opportunity to make nice with MLB and Selig, and further his chances of making the HoF (during his lifetime).

I hope he makes the right choice. He can sign autographs ANYTIME (and yes, I understand the event was scheduled previously).

Once upon a time I was the biggest Pete Rose fan ever. I do not hate the man, or wish him ill-will, and I do want to see him in the Hall of Fame, where he belongs. But his constant lying for so many years, to all of us, has taken the bloom off my admiration for Pete.

And it looks as if Roger Clemens is choosing the same ill-conceived path. Guys like them think something is true just because they say it is true- because that's how it's been their whole life.

If Rose can't make the official MLB celebration of his breaking of Ty Cobb's record, then MLB and the Reds should just scrap it. If it doesn't mean that much to Pete, then it doesn't mean that much at all, does it?

Hoosier Red
08-21-2010, 10:40 AM
Not sure why people are all over Rose for this one. If I had retired from my former job and taken a new job, I would certainly be commited to my new job before I rearranged my schedule for an event that wasn't planned very far in advance at my old job. It's not like the Reds didn't have many years to get this thing planned. Ultimately, this ceremony will benefit the Reds more than it will Pete anyways. They make the money off the ticket sales and increased national interest in the game. Maybe Pete gets thrown a few dollars and gets his name in the media but he certainly doesn't have an issue accomplishing either of those right now.

And I understand the whole conflict of interest between the casinos and baseball but to me personally, I can separate what he did on the field with how he chooses to live his life off of it. If Pete wants to sign his name and people are willing to pay for it then more power to him, plenty of other former ballplayers do it too. And where he chooses to do that is his business and his reputation on the line. I can't fault him for maximizing the status and profit his name brings because there are thousands of other celebrities who do the same thing. And if he's ok with the results of his actions (no chance to get reinstated) then all I can do is wish he would get "it".

No one begrudges Pete's right to earn a living, or sign his name. BUT he says that not being in Baseball is a prison without bars, he says he desperately misses the game, and he says he would do anything to get back in.

Well "anything" probably starts with not being in a casino 4 times a week. "Anything" means that when the owner of the Reds spends whatever amount of pull was required to get MLB to allow an on field celebration, you make arrangements to be there.

And the whole notion that Pete needs to do this at a casino in order to "make a living" is laughable. If Pete Rose had wanted to, he could have just as easily set up a stand entitled, PETE ROSE SIGN'S STUFF HERE at a strip mall on Colerain Avenue and he probably could have "made a living."

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2010, 11:20 AM
He is going to Hollywood Casino with other Reds! Are the others just as bad as Pete? Fans will go to Hollywood Casino to see Pete. To say it's not about fans is beyond me. I'm sure they would go to a landfill to see him if they knew in advance he would be there. This story broke what a week or so ago? I'm willing to bet Rose had agreed to be apart of this Reds get together 3 months or more ago.

Chip R
08-21-2010, 11:22 AM
He is going to Hollywood Casino with other Reds! Are the others just as bad as Pete?

None of the others were barred from baseball for betting.

Roy Tucker
08-21-2010, 11:34 AM
It just looks bad.

Rose was totally dishonest with baseball and his fans for years. If he ever wants to get back in MLB's good graces, he will have to bend over backwards and do everything he humanly can to do so. He will have to be the one to make the extra efforts.

And when MLB comes knocking on Rose's door for the first time since the all century team and only the second time since he was banned, his fans would hope that he makes every effort he can to be there.

And when he says he has a previous commitment to a casino, while understandable in a narrow sense, he sure doesn't score any points with anyone, fans, MLB, and Bud Selig.

mth123
08-21-2010, 12:33 PM
Rose's action over his life is solely the reason he is in this situation, but he's reached a point of not really being able to win. When he was actively campaigning to get back in and be a part of it all, the common messages were "get a life"; "it's over"; and "move on."

Now it seems that Rose's acceptance of this casino gig with some of his friends from the past and no affiliation from MLB is somehow him ignoring his obligation. Rose is like a guy who was dumped by his wife and moved on and now that he's with some one else, every one seems to be mad that he doesn't drop what he currently has going to go back to his wife for a night. While Pete's cheatng may be what got him dumped in the first place, I don't see how can be expected to put his life on hold while waiting for the off chance that his first love may decide to give him another look.

Had I gotten myself in Rose's situation, I'd have moved on long ago. If MLB came around and I had nothing better to do, I'd probably be pleased and receptive, but I wouldn't drop everything if they happened to call.

As for all this money comes first stuff, of course it does. Its these guys profession. Money does come first. Does anyone think Baseball is holding this ceremony for any other reason than to increase ticket sales and make some extra cash? If so, think again.

kbrake
08-21-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm so glad that I'm young enough I have no memories of Pete Rose playing baseball and as a result I never formed any kind of connection to Pete Rose the baseball player. I know I didn't grow up with him and it makes it different but I'll never understand the people that defend him. He lied to every single of us for 15 years and then when he decided to come clean on it he only did so to make a profit. Pete Rose shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the game of baseball.

westofyou
08-21-2010, 01:52 PM
I'm so glad that I'm young enough I have no memories of Pete Rose playing baseball and as a result I never formed any kind of connection to Pete Rose the baseball player. I know I didn't grow up with him and it makes it different but I'll never understand the people that defend him. He lied to every single of us for 15 years and then when he decided to come clean on it he only did so to make a profit. Pete Rose shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the game of baseball.

I for one am sooooooo glad I am old enough to have those memories, Pete Rose was joy to watch between the lines, an absolute joy.

WMR
08-21-2010, 02:16 PM
YouTube - Tom Gill Chevrolet Wants You to have Dinner with Pete Rose!.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS1DuM88Prs&feature=player_embedded)

Is that offer still good? :redface:

Caseyfan21
08-21-2010, 02:23 PM
I'm so glad that I'm young enough I have no memories of Pete Rose playing baseball and as a result I never formed any kind of connection to Pete Rose the baseball player. I know I didn't grow up with him and it makes it different but I'll never understand the people that defend him. He lied to every single of us for 15 years and then when he decided to come clean on it he only did so to make a profit. Pete Rose shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the game of baseball.

I'm glad I'm young too but for a different reason: I have no emotional attachment to Pete to either defend him or be extremely upset with him. I think of Reds fans, of those who saw him play, people either defend him 100% or hate him for not being the person they watched between the lines. I, having no personal connection, choose to appreciate his on field contributions and have no opinion about what he does off the field. I think Pete should be in the hall for his playing career but he's a fool off the field that should never be let near a diamond.

OnBaseMachine
08-21-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm glad I'm young too but for a different reason: I have no emotional attachment to Pete to either defend him or be extremely upset with him. I think of Reds fans, of those who saw him play, people either defend him 100% or hate him for not being the person they watched between the lines. I, having no personal connection, choose to appreciate his on field contributions and have no opinion about what he does off the field. I think Pete should be in the hall for his playing career but he's a fool off the field that should never be let near a diamond.

That is exactly how I feel.

kbrake
08-21-2010, 04:21 PM
I think Caseyfan21 did a better job of saying what I was trying to get across. I'm just glad I don't have the connection with Rose that some do. He's just one bad decision after another.

Unassisted
08-21-2010, 04:37 PM
I appreciated Pete's string of second place finishes as a manager. His clubs as manager/player were always competitive, in ways that Reds teams of the 2000's weren't. I don't like to think about whether any of those second place finishes would have been division championships if he weren't betting on baseball, but I'm open to the possibility.

The more I think about it, the more I wish that the commissioner would just make the ban permanent and irreversible. Pete seems to have configured his life as if it is that way, so that edict wouldn't administer a crushing blow to his psyche. Bud has him in this weird limbo by letting his career accomplishments be acknowledged on the field every few years. This feels more like picking the scabs of old wounds than nudging Pete with a carrot to let him know what he could have more of if he'd only change his ways. Just make the ban permanent and be done with it. Any acknowledgment the Reds choose to make of his records can be done as if it was posthumous and Pete can opt to be in the park and wave to the fans from the stands when it happens.

Ron Madden
08-21-2010, 04:39 PM
I love Pete the Ballplayer.

I just wish he would take the time to consider the consequences of his actions before doing some of the things he does.

RBA
08-21-2010, 04:53 PM
Are the Reds and MLB honoring Pete Rose because it's the right thing to do or are they doing it to bring in a sell-out crowd and sell a bunch of commerative trinkets and over price food consessions?

Pete is not going to be there unless there is something in it Pete. And MLB wouldn't allow the Reds to put the tribute on unless there was something in it for them.

Yachtzee
08-22-2010, 03:46 PM
Are the Reds and MLB honoring Pete Rose because it's the right thing to do or are they doing it to bring in a sell-out crowd and sell a bunch of commerative trinkets and over price food consessions?

Pete is not going to be there unless there is something in it Pete. And MLB wouldn't allow the Reds to put the tribute on unless there was something in it for them.

It depends on Pete's goal. If it is to mend fences and start earning his way back into baseball, I think telling the casino "Thanks, but no thanks" would be the first step, regardless of who else will be there. If his goal is to make a quick buck, by all means hang out at the casino. The only reason the casino wants him is to bring gamblers through the doors. His statements alway indicate he wants back in baseball, but his actions indicate he likes the fast buck more.

mth123
08-22-2010, 04:00 PM
It depends on Pete's goal. If it is to mend fences and start earning his way back into baseball, I think telling the casino "Thanks, but no thanks" would be the first step, regardless of who else will be there. If his goal is to make a quick buck, by all means hang out at the casino. The only reason the casino wants him is to bring gamblers through the doors. His statements alway indicate he wants back in baseball, but his actions indicate he likes the fast buck more.

I think its been made clear that this is a one time thing and there is no re-instatement decision to follow.

Baseball parted ways with Pete Rose long ago. Pete deserved it. He should just forget about being part of any official functions unless baseball welcomes him back in. I can see why they don't (I'd personally make him HOF eligible while keeping the banning from working in baseball in place) and think they have no intention of changing their stance. That's why to me this looks like Baseball is the girl who knows a guy has a crush on her and is willing to let him hang out for a while as long as she's getting something out of it. Once dinner is paid for (or in this case the tickets are sold), the guy gets the cold shoulder again. If I were Pete, I wouldn't play the part of lovesick schoolboy. I'd move on with my life and appear at the casino.

Yachtzee
08-22-2010, 07:59 PM
I think its been made clear that this is a one time thing and there is no re-instatement decision to follow.

Baseball parted ways with Pete Rose long ago. Pete deserved it. He should just forget about being part of any official functions unless baseball welcomes him back in. I can see why they don't (I'd personally make him HOF eligible while keeping the banning from working in baseball in place) and think they have no intention of changing their stance. That's why to me this looks like Baseball is the girl who knows a guy has a crush on her and is willing to let him hang out for a while as long as she's getting something out of it. Once dinner is paid for (or in this case the tickets are sold), the guy gets the cold shoulder again. If I were Pete, I wouldn't play the part of lovesick schoolboy. I'd move on with my life and appear at the casino.

You almost make it sound like Pete is the victim here. Bart Giamatti told Pete exactly what to do in order to even be considered for reinstatement, reconfigure his life. As long as he keeps hanging out at casinos, he shows he hasn't done a darn thing in that regard. The sad thing is that he has instead played it like he is somehow the victim and has even had hall of famers go to bat for him in front of the commissioner, only to make them look stupid by continually making the wrong choices. If anything, I would say baseball has bent over backwards by constantly giving him opportunities to say and do the right thing and he has always made the wrong choice.

mth123
08-22-2010, 08:58 PM
You almost make it sound like Pete is the victim here. Bart Giamatti told Pete exactly what to do in order to even be considered for reinstatement, reconfigure his life. As long as he keeps hanging out at casinos, he shows he hasn't done a darn thing in that regard. The sad thing is that he has instead played it like he is somehow the victim and has even had hall of famers go to bat for him in front of the commissioner, only to make them look stupid by continually making the wrong choices. If anything, I would say baseball has bent over backwards by constantly giving him opportunities to say and do the right thing and he has always made the wrong choice.

I don't think he's a victim at all, but when its over move on. Baseball seems to be exploiting the situation IMO. If he's banned, he's banned. Unless, of course, we can get a big gate out of it then we'll let him back in for a day. He was banned and told to move on without being affiliated with MLB, and now that he's done that, MLB decides to ask him back for a day and he's villified for having a prior commitment. I don't get it.

Eric_the_Red
08-23-2010, 11:53 AM
I don't think he's a victim at all, but when its over move on. Baseball seems to be exploiting the situation IMO. If he's banned, he's banned. Unless, of course, we can get a big gate out of it then we'll let him back in for a day. He was banned and told to move on without being affiliated with MLB, and now that he's done that, MLB decides to ask him back for a day and he's villified for having a prior commitment. I don't get it.


Or, baseball is recognizing history and, although he is banned from the game, they are waiving that for a day to allow Rose to receive recognition for his record. But I suppose it is the easier to be cynical and think baseball is really getting rich off the extra 7-8k tickets sold to the game.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2010, 12:05 PM
From Mo Egger:

Hollywood Casino adjusting schedule to allow Pete Rose to be at GABP on 9/11.

http://twitter.com/MoEgger1530

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2010, 12:48 PM
From the Reds twitter page:

The 4192 celebration will include video highlights of the historic events w/ Tony Perez & Cesar Geronimo expected to attend as well.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2010, 05:16 PM
From the Reds:
Prior to their 7:10 p.m. game against the Pittsburgh Pirates on Saturday, September 11 the Cincinnati Reds will recognize the 25th anniversary of Pete Roseís 4,192nd career hit.
The celebration at Great American Ball Park will include an appearance by Rose and video highlights of the events surrounding one of Major League Baseballís most historic moments.
Expected to attend the pre-game ceremonies are former teammates Tony Perez and Cesar Geronimo.
Pete and his family also will attend the afternoon game on Sunday, September 12.
At Riverfront Stadium on September 11, 1985 Rose singled to left center field off San Diego Padres pitcher Eric Show to pass Hall of Famer Ty Cobb and become Major League Baseballís all-time hits leader.
The Cincinnati native finished his career with 4,256 hits over 24 seasons for the Reds, Phillies and Expos.


I guess the Pete Rose "pile on" can stop now. He's showing up and re-arranging his prior engagement.

dabvu2498
08-24-2010, 05:21 PM
I guess the Pete Rose "pile on" can stop now. He's showing up and re-arranging his prior engagement.

Hollywood Casino is also a fairly major corporate sponsor of the Reds. I'd say they did more re-arranging than Pete did.

dougdirt
08-24-2010, 05:22 PM
I might show up to boo him and argue with people cheering for him.

reds1869
08-24-2010, 05:28 PM
I might show up to boo him and argue with people cheering for him.

Let me know how that works out for you. :laugh:

westofyou
08-24-2010, 05:34 PM
I guess the Pete Rose "pile on" can stop now. He's showing up and re-arranging his prior engagement.

He'd need to rearrange more than a date at a two-bit casino to placate the folks that are steamed at him.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2010, 05:38 PM
He'd need to rearrange more than a date at a two-bit casino to placate the folks that are steamed at him.

I'm sure you're right...however, just how long will Redsland hold a grudge? Can't we just move on? Can't we just accept he's got a flawed personality and a bad habit and just be grateful for getting to watch one of the greatest hitters of all time? I just don't get the "holier than thou" attitude that some Reds fans STILL hold towards Pete. (not pointing at you...just a general comment)

westofyou
08-24-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm sure you're right...however, just how long will Redsland hold a grudge? Can't we just move on? Can't we just accept he's got a flawed personality and a bad habit and just be grateful for getting to watch one of the greatest hitters of all time? I just don't get the "holier than thou" attitude that some Reds fans STILL hold towards Pete. (not pointing at you...just a general comment)
I can't get the apologist's myself.

The man lied to his fans for decades, maybe you can get over that because he could hit a ball with a bat, I can't.

My take on Pete Rose the 'human being' doesn't mean I can't love Pete Rose 'ballplayer', I'm quite capable of discerning the difference between the two.

Roy Tucker
08-24-2010, 05:44 PM
I'm sure you're right...however, just how long will Redsland hold a grudge? Can't we just move on? Can't we just accept he's got a flawed personality and a bad habit and just be grateful for getting to watch one of the greatest hitters of all time? I just don't get the "holier than thou" attitude that some Reds fans STILL hold towards Pete. (not pointing at you...just a general comment)

Pete has made several lifetimes worth of deposits at the bad karma bank.

reds1869
08-24-2010, 05:48 PM
My take on Pete Rose the 'human being' doesn't mean I can't love Pete Rose 'ballplayer', I'm quite capable of discerning the difference between the two.

That is how I feel. I love Pete the ballplayer even though Pete the human being is not the best example of how to go about one's business. When I stand and cheer in September it will be for one of the greatest hitters of all-time rather than for a man who has made many mistakes in his life. I am past the age of hero worship, which also puts me past the age of looking down on ballplayers for character flaws.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2010, 05:50 PM
I can't get the apologist's myself.

The man lied to his fans for decades, maybe you can get over that because he could hit a ball with a bat, I can't.

My take on Pete Rose the 'human being' doesn't mean I can't love Pete Rose 'ballplayer', I'm quite capable of discerning the difference between the two.

Well, this night is a tribute to Pete Rose "the ballplayer" and his accomplishment on the field of play. It's got absolutely nothing to do with his personality or his gambling habit or his penchant for lying.

As for me, I forgave him a LOOOOONG time ago. He lied. Big deal. Millions of people do it everyday and for much more trivial things than he did. And millions also carry on those lies even after they've been found out to be lies. The difference...Pete did it in the national media.

And I got over it, not because he was a good ballplayer, but because he's a human being with faults. He didn't murder somebody...he didn't rape somebody...he bet on a baseball game. He lied. In the big scope of things...this is pretty trivial IMO.

westofyou
08-24-2010, 05:57 PM
In the big scope of things...this is pretty trivial IMO.

Unless that big scope is MLB, then in fact it's hardly "trivial"

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2010, 05:58 PM
Just ordered my tickets. I can't wait! I'll be standing up and cheering him any chance I get.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Unless that big scope is MLB, then in fact it's hardly "trivial"

He's not in MLB anymore and we're still holding him under that microscope. And fwiw, I've never understood the stance MLB takes on gambling compared to other things (like PED's). I'm not FOR gambling, I'm just much MORE against drug use.

But regardless, I'm just gonna drop this because I can foresee it getting off track rather quickly.

Congrats Pete. Enjoy your night.

Always Red
08-24-2010, 06:39 PM
And I got over it, not because he was a good ballplayer, but because he's a human being with faults. He didn't murder somebody...he didn't rape somebody...he bet on a baseball game. He lied. In the big scope of things...this is pretty trivial IMO.

Wow. He lied, so big deal? He bet on "a" baseball game? :laugh:

There's some serious rationalization going on here!

Pete was NOT one of the greatest hitters of all time, as you said he was earlier- not even close. But he was one of the greatest competitors I have ever seen, and certainly deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose had the world by the balls. He was adored in Cincinnati, was friendly with all the sportswriters, most of whom considered him a first ballot Hall of Famer- he may have even come close to being unanimous, who knows?

And he ****ed it all away. He has no one to blame but himself. And this group here, in little old backwater Cincinnati? We're the best fans he has- and maybe the only fans he has left.

Good for Pete. Hopefully this will crack the door to the Hall open a bit.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2010, 06:53 PM
Well, like I said...I'm gonna drop the gambling talk as I see it going off on a tangent that will never end.

I agree with you about his competitiveness, but I'm stunned that you don't consider Pete as one of the greatest hitters of all time. I'm not saying THE greatest, just one of them. If you put together a list of 50 of the best hitters of all time...you wouldn't put Rose on it?

Always Red
08-24-2010, 07:03 PM
I agree with you about his competitiveness, but I'm stunned that you don't consider Pete as one of the greatest hitters of all time. I'm not saying THE greatest, just one of them. If you put together a list of 50 of the best hitters of all time...you wouldn't put Rose on it?

Maybe near the bottom of top 50 all time, because of his longevity. Pete's big thing was hits, number of hits, batting average; yet his lifetime BA is .303. OBP of .375.

He was probably the 4th best hitter on the BRM. Yet, he was the guy who stirred the drink here in Cincinnati, the spark plug of the Machine.

I'm a huge fan of Rose the ballplayer.

Here's Ted Williams Top 20:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lited20.shtml

Red in Chicago
08-24-2010, 07:11 PM
Just ordered my tickets. I can't wait! I'll be standing up and cheering him any chance I get.

I just got mine too!!

George Anderson
08-24-2010, 07:21 PM
I find it interesting that the original date of Sept 12th is far from a sell out. In fact if you go to Stub Hub you will find numerous tickets available as low as $7 for decent seats. If I had to guess the game will probally be a sell out but there really doesn't seem to be a big buzz over Pete being honored.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2010, 07:24 PM
I find it interesting that the original date of Sept 12th is far from a sell out. In fact if you go to Stub Hub you will find numerous tickets available as low as $7 for decent seats. If I had to guess the game will probally be a sell out but there really doesn't seem to be a big buzz over Pete being honored.

That's because not a whole lot of people knew about ir. Some of my neighbors who are diehard Reds fans hadn't heard a thing about it until I told them. The Reds didn't officially announce anything until yesterday.

westofyou
08-24-2010, 08:03 PM
Wow. He lied, so big deal? He bet on "a" baseball game? :laugh:


No big deal, gambling, nope just a ripple in the pond.

Paging Jim Devlin, we found your backer

George Anderson
08-24-2010, 08:19 PM
That's because not a whole lot of people knew about ir. Some of my neighbors who are diehard Reds fans hadn't heard a thing about it until I told them. The Reds didn't officially announce anything until yesterday.

Assuming Pete's fans read the newspaper it was in the Enquirer back on the 19th. Plenty of time for a buzz to be created and people to rush out and buy tickets. That is if people still care of course.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100819/SPT04/308190071/

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Assuming Pete's fans read the newspaper it was in the Enquirer back on the 19th. Plenty of time for a buzz to be created and people to rush out and buy tickets. That is if people still care of course.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100819/SPT04/308190071/

It wasn't announced until today what day Pete would be at the ballpark.

Cyclone792
08-24-2010, 08:27 PM
And fwiw, I've never understood the stance MLB takes on gambling compared to other things (like PED's). I'm not FOR gambling, I'm just much MORE against drug use.

Betting on baseball is the gateway to throwing games. When that starts happening, the sport becomes a joke and folks stop showing up.

When players take PEDs, people still show up. They boo and throw syringes at players, but they'll still pour their money and support into the game.

As for Pete's spot on the greatest players list, I think I have him in the 30s (this list encompasses all players, including pitchers). Strictly position players, he may crack the top 30.

bucksfan2
08-25-2010, 09:23 AM
Well, this night is a tribute to Pete Rose "the ballplayer" and his accomplishment on the field of play. It's got absolutely nothing to do with his personality or his gambling habit or his penchant for lying.

As for me, I forgave him a LOOOOONG time ago. He lied. Big deal. Millions of people do it everyday and for much more trivial things than he did. And millions also carry on those lies even after they've been found out to be lies. The difference...Pete did it in the national media.

And I got over it, not because he was a good ballplayer, but because he's a human being with faults. He didn't murder somebody...he didn't rape somebody...he bet on a baseball game. He lied. In the big scope of things...this is pretty trivial IMO.

I was born in 1982 and I don't know if I ever got the chance to see him play. My grandparents used to take me to baseball games when I was young so I may have seen him play as a 4-5 year old, I just can't remember.

For years I thought Pete got a raw deal. For years I tried my hardest to believe him. I bought his words, soaked up his lies, even felt bad for him when he went to jail. I remember asking my mom "What happens on Christmas and Pete is still in jail".

All that said I get tired of Pete. For years all he has done is served as a black eye for the city of Cincinnati. We had the outlaw Bengals, Huggins Bearcats, and Pete. We had a guy who lied for years, then admitted in a tell all book ($) and now will sign baseballs saying "I bet on baseball, Pete Rose. We have a fan base who loves and cheers on a convicted felon. We don't care what kind of person he is, all we care about is how he hit a baseball. I for one won't stand and cheer when he is in the ballpark. I just wish he would go away. Quit serving as a black eye to this city. Just go away Pete.

Roy Tucker
09-10-2010, 01:09 PM
Interesting comments by Rick Reilly on the upcoming Rose 4192 celebration...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5553785

mbgrayson
09-10-2010, 02:58 PM
...and now will sign baseballs saying "I bet on baseball, Pete Rose. We have a fan base who loves and cheers on a convicted felon. We don't care what kind of person he is, all we care about is how he hit a baseball. I for one won't stand and cheer when he is in the ballpark. I just wish he would go away. Quit serving as a black eye to this city. Just go away Pete.

FWIW, Pete actually signs balls that say "Im sorry that I bet on baseball (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2592359)". That's what he does for a living...sad.

I was born in 1959, and grew up in a suburb of Dayton. We loved and idolized Pete. We tried to play little league the hard-nosed way he played. We watched Pete (and Bench, Perez and others...) take the Reds to the World Series, and finally win it all in '75 and '76. We cried when Pete left Cincinnati to make more money, and we cheered when he finally 'came home'. We loved Rose's hustle, even if it was a little gimmicky.

After he came back twenty-five years ago, Pete broke one of those records that everybody had thought would never be broken, Ty Cobb's career hits record. The entire region celebrated the accomplishment, and it was indeed one heck of record to break. It took season after season of 200+ hits to do it, and thats what Pete did. The only modern player who would come close to that level of sustained productivity is Ichiro, and he spent years playing in Japan.

Pete's gambling (and his lies and general bad judgment) were a deep disappointment and betrayal to Cincinnati. But in my mind, Pete has paid a huge price for what he did. He lost his manager's job, and had to watch from the sidelines when the team he helped build won the 1990 World Series. He has been banned from the HOF, and cannot work inside the game he loved so much, for over 20 years. He went to prison for tax evasion, and he basically grovels for a living signing autographs. To me, Pete has been punished enough for what he did. I work in the criminal justice system, and there are lots of guys who did far worse than Pete that are fully out of the system, and back to leading productive lives with no lingering consequences within a few years of their crime. Pete is more than 20 years out from his crime, and he is still on the 'ineligible' list.

There are others that were even bigger SOBs than Pete, who were never punished this way. Read a biography of Ty Cobb, for example.... cheating, racism, perhaps murder, and he is in the HOF.

I sure would not hold Pete Rose out as a character model or a person for my kids to emulate.

But with all that said, I won't hesitate to cheer long and loud for his 'on the field' accomplishments. The man could hit, the man could hustle, and the man could win baseball games. THAT is what I will be cheering. In Pete's honor, I am changing my avatar to a 1960s vintage photo of Pete, back before the scandals....when Pete was just Pete, or at least so we thought.

bucksfan2
09-10-2010, 04:12 PM
...Pete's gambling (and his lies and general bad judgment) were a deep disappointment and betrayal to Cincinnati. But in my mind, Pete has paid a huge price for what he did. He lost his manager's job, and had to watch from the sidelines when the team he helped build won the 1990 World Series. He has been banned from the HOF, and cannot work inside the game he loved so much, for over 20 years. He went to prison for tax evasion, and he basically grovels for a living signing autographs. To me, Pete has been punished enough for what he did. I work in the criminal justice system, and there are lots of guys who did far worse than Pete that are fully out of the system, and back to leading productive lives with no lingering consequences within a few years of their crime. Pete is more than 20 years out from his crime, and he is still on the 'ineligible' list.

Well said and I don't disagree with much of what you said.

But I fully believe that Pete is his own worst enemy. He has made his post baseball living off of his infamy. I fully believe that had Pete stayed quiet or admitted earlier to betting on baseball he would be in the HoF. Had he not made his home based Las Vegas or spent hours upon hours of his time at horse race tracks. There is nothing wrong with what Pete is doing to make his current living. Its just that if he wants back into baseball staying away from gambling establishments is probably a good idea.

I won't cheer for that man anymore. I think its sad that people in Cincy continue to idolize him. You ask anyone outside of this area what they think of Pete and they will say "What an idiot. Probably belongs in the HOF but he bet on baseball". But you ask someone from this area and you will get "He never bet on the Reds." or "He only bet on the Reds to win".

To me I wish he would go away. Not surface in Las Vegas or casino's or race tracks or on Howard Stern's show talking about his sex life. I wish he would take a low profile, quit signing baseballs about betting on baseball and do whatever it took to get back in Selig's or baseball's good graces. The sooner he does that the sooner he will be allowed back into baseball and into his rightful place of the HOF. Until he does that we will continue to witness firsthand the tragedy of Pete Rose.

macro
09-10-2010, 06:37 PM
Interesting comments by Rick Reilly on the upcoming Rose 4192 celebration...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5553785 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5553785)


From the article:


That one of the top five hitters in baseball history has to come on hands and knees to a city he made famous, to a team he led to six World Series...

Did I miss something?

dsmith421
09-11-2010, 12:18 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5543839

Great story about Eric Show, who gave up 4192 and later died of a drug overdose.

OnBaseMachine
09-11-2010, 12:20 AM
I'll be at the game tomorrow night. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully the Reds can make it an all around good night by whipping up on the Pirates.

The Operator
09-11-2010, 06:53 AM
I'll be at the game tomorrow night as well. Not sure how I'll react at the Pete ceremony but I'm glad I'll be there. I rarely get to be at cool events like that but for some reason I hit gold this year when I randomly ordered my tickets a few months ago: Was at Chapman's debut and now this.

Hopefully going against Charlie Morton, he of the 1-11, 9+ ERA will help wake the offense up and make for a fun night at the park.

Matt700wlw
09-11-2010, 01:45 PM
4192

YouTube - Pete Rose, 4192 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO9lGCS5DTg&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2010, 02:13 PM
FWIW, Pete actually signs balls that say "Im sorry that I bet on baseball (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2592359)". That's what he does for a living...sad.

I was born in 1959, and grew up in a suburb of Dayton. We loved and idolized Pete. We tried to play little league the hard-nosed way he played. We watched Pete (and Bench, Perez and others...) take the Reds to the World Series, and finally win it all in '75 and '76. We cried when Pete left Cincinnati to make more money, and we cheered when he finally 'came home'. We loved Rose's hustle, even if it was a little gimmicky.

After he came back twenty-five years ago, Pete broke one of those records that everybody had thought would never be broken, Ty Cobb's career hits record. The entire region celebrated the accomplishment, and it was indeed one heck of record to break. It took season after season of 200+ hits to do it, and thats what Pete did. The only modern player who would come close to that level of sustained productivity is Ichiro, and he spent years playing in Japan.

Pete's gambling (and his lies and general bad judgment) were a deep disappointment and betrayal to Cincinnati. But in my mind, Pete has paid a huge price for what he did. He lost his manager's job, and had to watch from the sidelines when the team he helped build won the 1990 World Series. He has been banned from the HOF, and cannot work inside the game he loved so much, for over 20 years. He went to prison for tax evasion, and he basically grovels for a living signing autographs. To me, Pete has been punished enough for what he did. I work in the criminal justice system, and there are lots of guys who did far worse than Pete that are fully out of the system, and back to leading productive lives with no lingering consequences within a few years of their crime. Pete is more than 20 years out from his crime, and he is still on the 'ineligible' list.

There are others that were even bigger SOBs than Pete, who were never punished this way. Read a biography of Ty Cobb, for example.... cheating, racism, perhaps murder, and he is in the HOF.

I sure would not hold Pete Rose out as a character model or a person for my kids to emulate.

But with all that said, I won't hesitate to cheer long and loud for his 'on the field' accomplishments. The man could hit, the man could hustle, and the man could win baseball games. THAT is what I will be cheering. In Pete's honor, I am changing my avatar to a 1960s vintage photo of Pete, back before the scandals....when Pete was just Pete, or at least so we thought.

:clap:

westofyou
09-11-2010, 02:47 PM
http://www.baseballminutia.com/images/peteshead.gif

The Operator
09-12-2010, 02:52 AM
I have to say, it was a cool experience, being there tonight. Playing the music from The Natural as Pete came in was a fitting touch, too.

The whole situation is so sad. Pete has likable qualities, but he's got a major problem and it has really derailed his life. It's very unfortunate.

top6
09-12-2010, 08:59 AM
Not sure if anything captures the essence of what Pete has become like this (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100911/SPT04/9120366/):


"I got suspended 21 years ago. For 10-12 years, I kept it inside . . . That's changed. I'm a different guy . . . I love the fans, I love the game of baseball, and I love Cincinnati baseball."

What had begun as a roast had turned into a repentance, the way people had always wanted it, and now, finally, had received it.

In, of all places, a casino ballroom.

I get that it was a pre-existing obligation, but basically Pete had to leave his own tribute, and a game where a pennant race Reds team won a game in thrilling, walk-off home run fashion, so that he could cry about betting on baseball in a CASINO BALLROOM.

Anyway, I was at the event last night and it was OK. Reds did a great job. I was pretty shocked that the stadium was only half-full, and actually I didn't think the ovation was particularly loud. Actually, the veteran who (absolutely amazingly) threw out the first pitch while wearing a prosthetic leg got what I thought was a louder hand (of course, deservedly so).

Pete coming out just wasn't all that magical of a moment, and I am a pretty big fan. Hard to put my finger on why. I think the Reds did a great job, but after so many years of not being allowed to formally honor him, it just felt weird to finally be able to do so.

Dom Heffner
09-12-2010, 10:22 AM
Pete's gambling (and his lies and general bad judgment) were a deep disappointment and betrayal to Cincinnati. But in my mind, Pete has paid a huge price for what he did. He lost his manager's job, and had to watch from the sidelines when the team he helped build won the 1990 World Series. He has been banned from the HOF, and cannot work inside the game he loved so much, for over 20 years. He went to prison for tax evasion, and he basically grovels for a living signing autographs. To me, Pete has been punished enough for what he did. I work in the criminal justice system, and there are lots of guys who did far worse than Pete that are fully out of the system, and back to leading productive lives with no lingering consequences within a few years of their crime. Pete is more than 20 years out from his crime, and he is still on the 'ineligible' list.

As a person who works within the justice system, I'm sure you understand punishments defined within the law.

The punishment for betting on baseball is without forgiveness: lifetime ban.

There are some death penalty stories that are heartbreaking, but they still pull the switch.

Rose had a chance not to bet on baseball, and he went another way, a way which allows no way back.

He then had a chance to make it all right, to come clean, and he went yet the other way once again.

When given the chance to do the right thing, time and time again he doesn't.

It's a heartbreaking story, but zero percent of that story includes something that gives Pete a ticket back into baseball.

Baseball isn't truly concerned with good people- they let Albert Belle play, Ty Cobb, and a thousand others who were not good citizens but good ball players.

Baseball is concerned with its results being legitimate, especially with gambling, where somebody might not be giving their best effort to win.

The message baseball sends with a lifetime ban is this: we don't care why, how sorry you are, how much you straighten your life out afterward, you are out, permanently, if you choose to do this.

The story doesn't always go the way we want, and this was one of those heartbreaking realizations for all of us: Pete Rose was a shoo-in hall of famer, yet it didn't end up like that.

I'm not one of those Bob Feller guys whose blood pressure goes up 40 points at the thought of Pete Rose. But I do realize the importance of rules and following them, even if it means the story doesn't end like I wanted it to.

Chip R
09-12-2010, 10:50 AM
As a person who works within the justice system, I'm sure you understand punishments defined within the law.

The punishment for betting on baseball is without forgiveness: lifetime ban.

There are some death penalty stories that are heartbreaking, but they still pull the switch.

Rose had a chance not to bet on baseball, and he went another way, a way which allows no way back.

And there are people who are convicted of crimes that don't serve near the time they are supposed to. It's called parole. Even people on Death Row sometimes have their sentences commuted to life.

What he did was a crime in baseball - the ultimate crime. Even betting on your own team to win isn't as innocent as it seems. The job of a manager is to win a championship. But if a manager is betting on his own team to win a specific game, he may do more harm to the team in the long term. Let's say the manager of the Reds had a lot of money riding on the game last night. Volquez was unhittable but he's coming back from Tommy John surgery. A manager betting on his team to win may leave Volquez in there and maybe he throws a complete game shutout. But he may throw 120-140 pitches and might wreck his arm.

But I digress. I think the lifetime ban is a good punishment. I think it potentially deters players/managers/executives from betting on the game and damaging the integrity of it. However that rule was in place when players did this to make money because they were paid poorly. Times are different. Why can't there be parole in cases like Rose? It doesn't matter to me either way but Selig has the power to parole him. If he's voted into the HOF, fine. If not, fine. Leave the final decision to the people that determine who should be in or out. Perhaps if he gets a job in the game, he will stop hanging around in casinos. I doubt it but I do think he has something to offer.

Dom Heffner
09-12-2010, 11:03 AM
And there are people who are convicted of crimes that don't serve near the time they are supposed to. It's called parole. Even people on Death Row sometimes have their sentences commuted to life.


And this is a good thing? ;)

Perhaps what I should have said is this: You know what the maximum punishment for the crime is going in. You may or not receive it, but I'm not crying for you if you get it.

Chip R
09-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Perhaps what I should have said is this: You know what the maximum punishment for the crime is going in. You may or not receive it, but I'm not crying for you if you get it.

I can dig that.

Unassisted
09-12-2010, 07:36 PM
I was pretty shocked that the stadium was only half-full, and actually I didn't think the ovation was particularly loud. Actually, the veteran who (absolutely amazingly) threw out the first pitch while wearing a prosthetic leg got what I thought was a louder hand (of course, deservedly so).

Pete coming out just wasn't all that magical of a moment, and I am a pretty big fan. Hard to put my finger on why. I think the Reds did a great job, but after so many years of not being allowed to formally honor him, it just felt weird to finally be able to do so.It's been ~20 years since he was banned. That's a long time for people to forget seeing him on a baseball diamond or in a dugout during a game.

Even so, I met a 20-something guy here in San Antonio last weekend who was making the trip to Cincinnati this weekend so that he could go with his dad to see Pete at GABP. Based on that, I was second-guessing that my own indifference to the event was not typical. Apparently it wasn't.

steig
09-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Pete bet on baseball. He bet on his team to win and thus bet on his team to loose. If he didn't bet on the Reds to win he was still influencing the betting patterns of others and he may have not been putting the team in the best position that day so he could win a bet the next day. Nobody other than Pete will completely know the truth. Pete didn't own up the truth for 10 years.

He should not be allowed in the Hall of Fame or back in baseball. I know some people get parole for crimes they commit but some people don't. If you commit fraud on the stock market the SEC is going to revoke license, lawyers can loose their law license if they are convicted of any felony, and there are similar analogies for other professions. This is the punishment in baseball for breaking the highest rule and lying about it.

The real question is what would have been for Pete is he had just admitted to his actions in 1989. Pete shouldn't be in baseball or the HOF but he should be used as an example to everyone of what not to do.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2010, 10:13 PM
I was at the last night and it was a night I'll never forget. It was amazing. It sent chills down my back when Pete entered the stadium to the song from The Natural. I'm so glad I there to see it. This might be my new favorite game I've attended.

mbgrayson
09-13-2010, 12:04 AM
It's a heartbreaking story, but zero percent of that story includes something that gives Pete a ticket back into baseball.

Pete was allowed to apply for reinstatement after one year:
"On August 24, 1989, Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent place on baseballís ineligible list.[9] (http://www.redszone.com/forums/#cite_note-8) Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations. According to baseball's rules, Rose could apply for reinstatement in one year."

OnBaseMachine
09-14-2010, 11:34 PM
Pete Rose surprises former Reds teammate Tony Perez with emotional apology


"He just let it go," said Perez, who played with Rose for 16 seasons in Cincinnati. "He talked about (how) he disrespected the game. He told everybody. He apologized to everybody, to us, to the fans, to baseball. He was very emotional.

Read the rest:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/marlins/916101.html

Ron Madden
09-15-2010, 04:04 AM
Pete Rose surprises former Reds teammate Tony Perez with emotional apology



Read the rest:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/marlins/916101.html

Thanks for the link OBM.

Pete and Tony have always been close friends, their wives and kids were always close friends. I doubt that Tony ever felt the need for a personal apology but this is heart warming.

RedsBaron
09-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Pete Rose surprises former Reds teammate Tony Perez with emotional apology



Read the rest:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/marlins/916101.html

This is something Pete should have done two decades ago. Unfortunately for him, his apology almost certainly comes far too late to help him gain even a limited reinstatement.
Rose of course has no one to blame but himself for gambling on the game. He also has no one but himself to blame for digging the hole deeper once MLB began to take action against him. I've read speculation that Bart Giamatti at one point was open to some sort of a deal with Rose that would have resulted in Rose being suspended but without a permanent ban, but Rose fought baseball and lied to literally everyone.
I believe that Pete's arrogance helped him become the athlete he was, a hitter who was convinced that no pitcher could get him out, but that arrogance also lead to his fall. Just a shame.

OnBaseMachine
09-15-2010, 03:53 PM
Article by John Erardi:


Rose's former teammate Johnny Bench, who did not attend any of the weekend's events but has been as critical as anybody of Rose, told Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty a few weeks ago that Rose no longer has any ulterior motives. Rose knows Selig isn't likely to relax the banishment. The artifice has all been stripped away

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100915/SPT04/309150088/

RedsBaron
09-15-2010, 04:50 PM
Good article, and a very stupid comment by one person who claimed that Rose couldn't hit today's pitchers if he "used a surfboard." Yeah right---Rose was lucky he only had to face lousy pitchers such as Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, Drysdale, Perry, Seaver, Carlton, Ryan, Sutton, Niekro, Spahn, Jenkins.................................... :rolleyes:

oneupper
09-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Just couldn't hit Randy Jones. :)

Red in Chicago
09-15-2010, 08:16 PM
Good article, and a very stupid comment by one person who claimed that Rose couldn't hit today's pitchers if he "used a surfboard." Yeah right---Rose was lucky he only had to face lousy pitchers such as Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, Drysdale, Perry, Seaver, Carlton, Ryan, Sutton, Niekro, Spahn, Jenkins.................................... :rolleyes:

Neutralize Pete's stats and he goes from .303/.375/.409/.784 with 4206 hits to .316/.390/.425/.815 with 4604 hits