PDA

View Full Version : What are the Chances Janish Remains the Starter the Rest of the Year?



MWM
08-15-2010, 10:51 PM
This team looks SOOOOO much better with Janish at SS over Cabrera. Neither guy hits much, so it makes no sense to me why Janish wouldn't keep the role once Cabrera comes back. And one argument should be completely put to rest at this point.... the one about "team chemistry" being impacted. The team has played better wit Cabrera on the DL.

Janish is consistently getting to balls Cabrera would have no chance at and his arm is vastly superior. It's really a significant difference between the two, IMO. With Janish on the field, that infield defense is pretty sick, the best the Reds have had since 1994.

I really hope Dusty can see what is GLARINGLY obvious to the rest of us.

VR
08-15-2010, 10:53 PM
This team looks SOOOOO much better with Janish at SS over Cabrera. Neither guy hits much, so it makes no sense to me why Janish wouldn't keep the role once Cabrera comes back. And one argument should be completely put to rest at this point.... the one about "team chemistry" being impacted. The team has played better wit Cabrera on the DL.

Janish is consistently getting to balls Cabrera would have no chance at and his arm is vastly superior. It's really a significant difference between the two, IMO. With Janish on the field, that infield defense is pretty sick, the best the Reds have had since 1994.

I really hope Dusty can see what is GLARINGLY obvious to the rest of us.

When OCab is healthy, he'll be back...even if Janish is hitting .500.

Dusty's boys are Gomes and OCab....either of them being relegated to a reserve role is a very very small chance. Sadly.

11larkin11
08-15-2010, 10:56 PM
Its obvious Janish is the superior defensive player. But Cabrera's defense is VASTLY underrated on here.

toledodan
08-15-2010, 11:06 PM
Its obvious Janish is the superior defensive player. But Cabrera's defense is VASTLY underrated on here.

i agree.

CTA513
08-15-2010, 11:07 PM
Janish will be back on the bench once Cabrera is off the DL.

RedsMan3203
08-15-2010, 11:11 PM
Janish will be back on the bench once Cabrera is off the DL.

And I don't have a problem with that.... Since the ASB OCab has been playing very well on both sides of the ball...

He now had a nice 2 week break from ball and I look for him to come back raking..

VR
08-15-2010, 11:30 PM
Its obvious Janish is the superior defensive player. But Cabrera's defense is VASTLY underrated on here.

Interesting lark...what are you basing that on?

I think his 'captaining' of the d is defensable.....but I don't see him holding a candle to PJ when is comes to range, hands, arm, or dp ability.

Captain Hook
08-15-2010, 11:40 PM
While I'd be in favor of Janish keeping the job it's not going to happen.As others have mentioned, it's just not the way Dusty does things.

One good thing is that Janish is getting some PT and looking like he could handle a full time roll.It's nice to know you have a very capable backup at SS when the guy you throw out there every day is 35.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2010, 11:47 PM
This team looks SOOOOO much better with Janish at SS over Cabrera. Neither guy hits much, so it makes no sense to me why Janish wouldn't keep the role once Cabrera comes back. And one argument should be completely put to rest at this point.... the one about "team chemistry" being impacted. The team has played better wit Cabrera on the DL.


Agreed. I think the Reds are better with Janish at SS. He made a few nice plays this weekend and has basically been flawless in the field since taking over for Cabrera. I would love to see Janish get the majority of the starts at SS once Cabrera returns but it's not going to happen. I fully expect Cabrera to play just about every day.

RedsManRick
08-15-2010, 11:51 PM
Not a chance -- for better or worse, Janish is just keeping it warm for Cabrera.

Chip R
08-16-2010, 01:21 AM
Interesting lark...what are you basing that on?

I don't presume to speak for 11larkin11 but the general consensus has been that he is awful on defense. I must admit, early in the season it looked like he had zero range but I believe he's improved on that score and I think people don't give him near enough credit for his arm. I've seen him make some great throws from the hole.

I think his 'captaining' of the d is defensable.....but I don't see him holding a candle to PJ when is comes to range, hands, arm, or dp ability.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Janish is the better defensive player in all phases but one would think Cabrera is a slug and Janish is the second coming of Ozzie Smith.

Ron Madden
08-16-2010, 04:03 AM
I'd love to see Janish be the starting SS even after Cabrera returns from the DL. However..............

I know that Cabrera will be hitting second and playing SS just as soon as he's back on the roster.

sabometrics
08-16-2010, 04:18 AM
I think Janish is better, but not by any significant margin so that I'm going to cry foul when Dusty inevitably gives the job back to Orlando. It is what it is man. If anything though, Dusty will be wary of overworking Cabrera down the stretch, I'm sure of that, which spells more playing time for Janish.

RedLegSuperStar
08-16-2010, 05:32 AM
I think you'll see Janish get more playing time now. I think the Reds are going to want both healthy so you will see them share time at SS. I'd venture to say Cabrera gets 60% of the starts the rest of the way and Janish will get the others.

cumberlandreds
08-16-2010, 07:47 AM
Its obvious Janish is the superior defensive player. But Cabrera's defense is VASTLY underrated on here.

I totally agree. :thumbup:

I will say this. Janish is making a very good case for being the everyday SS in 2011.

membengal
08-16-2010, 07:50 AM
I am with you, MWM. No question that this is a better team defensively with Janish playing, and his bat has been nowhere near as bad as many on here have said.

RFS62
08-16-2010, 07:58 AM
It will never happen

Roy Tucker
08-16-2010, 08:19 AM
I can't see it happening this season either.

OCab is well-respected in the clubhouse and team chemistry seems to be a contributing factor for this years' Reds success.

Maybe Janish will get the bat boy role.

durl
08-16-2010, 08:45 AM
I totally agree. :thumbup:

I will say this. Janish is making a very good case for being the everyday SS in 2011.

And Janish would be easier on the payroll, too. Not that money should be the driving force, though.

_Sir_Charles_
08-16-2010, 09:17 AM
I don't presume to speak for 11larkin11 but the general consensus has been that he is awful on defense. I must admit, early in the season it looked like he had zero range but I believe he's improved on that score and I think people don't give him near enough credit for his arm. I've seen him make some great throws from the hole.


I think his 'captaining' of the d is defensable.....but I don't see him holding a candle to PJ when is comes to range, hands, arm, or dp ability.

I agree that Janish is the better defensive player in all phases but one would think Cabrera is a slug and Janish is the second coming of Ozzie Smith.

I agree. I'm one of the biggest Janish supporters around here and even I can say without hesitation that Cabrera has been MUCH better since the first month of the season. No, he's still not as good as Paul defensively (and it's really not even close IMO). I fully expect Janish to head back to the bench. I'm only hoping that Dusty has now seen enough to know that Paul has a very important function on this club and he needs to play more often. 7th inning defensive replacement REGULARLY to keep other guys fresh AND to allow Paul a few AB's here and there to keep him fresh at the plate too (not the 9th inning defensive sub, there's vitually no shot for Paul to get an AB). Pinch hitting duties...if you need a bunt/sac, Paul's a VERY solid bunter. He should be getting the call quite often on that front IMO.

Hap
08-16-2010, 09:21 AM
If, by some chance, Janish begins to catch fire at the plate, he will remain in the lineup.

The theoretical playoff roster does not have guaranteed spots for both Cabrera and Janish. If OCab still has nagging soreness and can't put forth maximum effort, he may be relegated to a cheerleading role.

westofyou
08-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I'm only hoping that Dusty has now seen enough to know that Paul has a very important function on this club and he needs to play more often. 7th inning defensive replacement REGULARLY to keep other guys fresh AND to allow Paul a few AB's here and there to keep him fresh at the plate too (not the 9th inning defensive sub, there's vitually no shot for Paul to get an AB). Pinch hitting duties...if you need a bunt/sac, Paul's a VERY solid bunter. He should be getting the call quite often on that front IMO.

Can I get a list of the teams in MLB history that have a SS that gets replaced defensively in the late innings?

You can start with the contenders.

Reds1
08-16-2010, 09:43 AM
I'm hoping that at the very least Janish gets a start or two a week. It's amazing really how well he's done this year with his lack of playing time. I think he even puts a better AB then OC, but OC has been clutch many times this year (especially early) and he's a popular guy and a Dustry fav so he'll be back. I think we all feel more comfortable with maybe even saying Janish could start long term for this team, but rigth now he's a nice guy to bring in at almost any position defensively and he is putting better abs together this year. I think he's worked hard.

_Sir_Charles_
08-16-2010, 09:59 AM
Can I get a list of the teams in MLB history that have a SS that gets replaced defensively in the late innings?

You can start with the contenders.

I know. But how many contenders have range/bat hampered SS's starting too? Considering Cabrera's age and how much better he plays when he's fresh, it only makes sense to do this. I'm not saying EVERY game...just regularly. Games when we've got the lead, 2 times a week or so, and it doesn't only have to be Cabrera. Rolen needs breathers too. As does Phillips. I just don't think it does anybody any good to have him sit on his hands for a week at a time (which is what WAS going on).

TRF
08-16-2010, 10:14 AM
It's simple. Start Janish once a week at 3B, once a week at SS and even once a week at 2B to give the starters a breather. It's hot, it's a long season and this would give the regulars a breather when they need it the most, down the stretch. no ego massaging, just rest.

And do the same in the OF with Heisey.

nate
08-16-2010, 10:21 AM
It's simple. Start Janish once a week at 3B, once a week at SS and even once a week at 2B to give the starters a breather. It's hot, it's a long season and this would give the regulars a breather when they need it the most, down the stretch. no ego massaging, just rest.

And do the same in the OF with Heisey.

I love this plan.

lollipopcurve
08-16-2010, 10:21 AM
It's simple. Start Janish once a week at 3B, once a week at SS and even once a week at 2B to give the starters a breather. It's hot, it's a long season and this would give the regulars a breather when they need it the most, down the stretch. no ego massaging, just rest.

Yep. Although I'd use Cairo or, later in September, Francisco, at 3rd to rest Rolen. Phillips definitely needs a breather every now and then.


And do the same in the OF with Heisey.

OF's in full platoon mode right now, it seems.

MWM
08-16-2010, 10:23 AM
Well, at the very least I hope he’s in there when the ground ball heavy pitchers pitch. I’m not trying to disrespect Cabrera, and he’s not terrible. It’s as much about Janish as it is Cabrera. The guy can pick it at SS. He seems to have good range, he has an excellent arm, and doesn’t make mistakes. I am one who thinks the difference between the two is more than negligible. I’m not one to exaggerate and think it’s the difference between winning the division or not, but it just makes sense to put your best team out there and I think most would agree that the team is better with Janish playing SS.

I bet if you anonymously polled the pitchers on the team, it would be unanimous in PJ’s favor. And I do get the chemistry argument. I don’t doubt that it’s contributed and I wouldn’t want to mess with it. It just seems to me that it hasn’t suffered at all without Cabrera in the lineup. Other than the St. Louis series, the team has steam-rolled with Janish in there every day.

durl
08-16-2010, 11:15 AM
It's simple. Start Janish once a week at 3B, once a week at SS and even once a week at 2B to give the starters a breather. It's hot, it's a long season and this would give the regulars a breather when they need it the most, down the stretch. no ego massaging, just rest.

And do the same in the OF with Heisey.

You know, that's not a bad idea.

WebScorpion
08-16-2010, 01:15 PM
I just hope he gets more playing time than he was getting. I'd like to see him in there most of the time, but I don't expect that to happen. I think OCab is an average defender with a superior arm still, but Janish has incredible range and his arm is slightly stronger and no less accurate. I think Janish has developed better on base skills, though OCab still has more power. I also think it's important to rest OCab...he was on fire after the AS break and then was looking tired before the injury. Hopefully, he'll come out on fire again and this time they won't hesitate to rest him and keep him fresh. I don't think it will be the difference in making the playoffs or not either, but it should be interesting to watch.

Ron Madden
08-16-2010, 01:23 PM
Iím not one to exaggerate and think itís the difference between winning the division or not, but it just makes sense to put your best team out there and I think most would agree that the team is better with Janish playing SS.

I bet if you anonymously polled the pitchers on the team, it would be unanimous in PJís favor. And I do get the chemistry argument. I donít doubt that itís contributed and I wouldnít want to mess with it. It just seems to me that it hasnít suffered at all without Cabrera in the lineup. Other than the St. Louis series, the team has steam-rolled with Janish in there every day.


I'm in full agreement with these statements.

TRF
08-16-2010, 03:02 PM
For the life of me though, i don't get why Janish isn't a better hitter. He's got the frame. He seems intelligent. He's athletic. He should be hitting and hitting for power, yet... nope.

That stated, he is very good defensively. It isn't just rep like it was with Olmedo or Bergolla. Janish has proven he can handle any IF position defensively.

That's why IMO, he's an asset right now. Cabrera is the starter, and we better accept that. But Dusty should realize the left side of his IF is over 35 in average age. A day off with Janish taking that spot certainly won't hurt the club. Dusty seems to understand this with Rolen, often resting him in day games after night games, but he doesn't seem to ever rest BP or Cabrera. at least not as much.

wheels
08-16-2010, 03:18 PM
When's Orlando set to come back?

Big Klu
08-16-2010, 04:12 PM
When's Orlando set to come back?

I don't think they have said. Oblique muscles can be problematic at times. He could be out a while, and even when he comes back he could easily reaggravate it.

Scrap Irony
08-16-2010, 04:34 PM
Obliques take a long time to heal. I don't know if Cabrera will be fully healed before the end of the season.

If he's ready, however, he'll play SS. I'd think Baker would play Janish once or twice a week to rest Cabrera and make certain he's okay. Since Cabrera's been out, Janish has played well defensively (as I think most of us would have assumed), and he's been serviceable with the bat (though nothing special).

At this point, they're pretty close, IMO. Janish is better defensively. Cabrera's got the team's trust and respect. (He's a leader, whatever that means.) Cabrera is slightly better offensively, assuming he's well-rested.

wheels
08-16-2010, 05:17 PM
Yeah... I'm of the feeling that Orlando won't be back for quite a while.

Even when he does return, Dusty will have little choice but to play Paul Janish far more than he did earlier this season.

"Old" guys are prone to pulling stuff, and it takes longer to heal.

Ron Madden
08-17-2010, 04:18 AM
I could be wrong but I believe I read or heard somewhere that Cabrera could be back on Wednesday the 18th of August.

Big Klu
08-17-2010, 07:54 AM
I could be wrong but I believe I read or heard somewhere that Cabrera could be back on Wednesday the 18th of August.

That is the first date he is eligible to be activated from the DL. Whether he will actually be ready on that date is another question.

bucksfan2
08-17-2010, 10:51 AM
I just don't think Janish will ever hit enough to warrant being an everyday SS. He doesn't have any power to speak of and it appears that when he is given an every day job the league starts to figure him out and he struggles.

Count me as one who will be happy to see Cabrera back.

membengal
08-17-2010, 11:14 AM
Larger sample size for Janish now, and he's at:

.275/.362/.402 for a .764 OPS.

O-Cab when he went on the DL:

.260/.302/.339 for a .641 OPS.

For the record, Janish is hitting well enough at the moment to be an everyday SS, and continues to do so during his latest chance at some at-bats. And Janish has been kinda "clutchy", 16 RBI in his 100 at-bats. 37 for Cabrera in 400 at-bats. And what not.

westofyou
08-17-2010, 11:54 AM
I just don't think Janish will ever hit enough to warrant being an everyday SS. He doesn't have any power to speak of and it appears that when he is given an every day job the league starts to figure him out and he struggles.

Count me as one who will be happy to see Cabrera back.

I see the same thing, once challenged by big RH his numbers dwindle, currently he is doing great against LH's. fact is his last week as a starter he has .600 ops with a sub .300 slg%.

membengal
08-17-2010, 11:56 AM
Agendas are cruel mistresses.

Brutus
08-17-2010, 11:58 AM
I just don't think Janish will ever hit enough to warrant being an everyday SS. He doesn't have any power to speak of and it appears that when he is given an every day job the league starts to figure him out and he struggles.

Count me as one who will be happy to see Cabrera back.

Cabrera wasn't hitting enough to be an everyday shortstop, and quite honestly, hasn't the last few years.

And Janish has a major leg up defensively.

I have no illusions Janish will continue to OPS .764. But right now, it's much more appealing than Cabrera.

westofyou
08-17-2010, 12:01 PM
Agendas are cruel mistresses.

I have no agenda, I just don't believe that he's a good hitter.

I believe that, you don't.. so is that your agenda?

nate
08-17-2010, 12:04 PM
I see the same thing, once challenged by big RH his numbers dwindle, currently he is doing great against LH's. fact is his last week as a starter he has .600 ops with a sub .300 slg%.

On the season (332 PAs as opposed to a split of a tiny sample), O-Cab has a .320 SLG vs. RHP.

At the very least, Janish deserves more than a bi-monthly start. Quite honestly, it would benefit the team more if he started twice a week at SS and once at 3B to keep Rolen and O-Cab fresh.

westofyou
08-17-2010, 12:09 PM
On the season (332 PAs as opposed to a split of a tiny sample), O-Cab has a .320 SLG vs. RHP.

At the very least, Janish deserves more than a bi-monthly start. Quite honestly, it would benefit the team more if he started twice a week at SS and once at 3B to keep Rolen and O-Cab fresh.

I'm not talking about OC, I'm talking strictly about Paul Janish as a hitter in MLB.

Sure all that other stuff plays into my evil "agenda" to spread my opinion on his future as a MLB player, but in a vacuum in my minds eye I don't see it.

membengal
08-17-2010, 12:11 PM
I have no agenda, I just don't believe that he's a good hitter.

I believe that, you don't.. so is that your agenda?

Nope. Just noting that some refuse to acknowledge ANYTHING that Janish does well. Not saying that is you, unless it is. You would know that, I guess.

Mario-Rijo
08-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Nope. Just noting that some refuse to acknowledge ANYTHING that Janish does well. Not saying that is you, unless it is. You would know that, I guess.

Janish does alot of things well but how does it go "the whole is less than the sum of it's parts". At least that is how I seen him coming into the season maybe that has changed, maybe it hasn't too small a sample to know. My gut says he probably hasn't really changed his production largely a result of luck and benefitting from being fresh when called on. When not fresh that lack of raw power shines thru. Cabrera isn't quite what he once was and I don't like his hacking ways but with the game on the line I think I'd prefer OCab at the plate that has to count for something.

As far as their defense goes I think it goes like so...

Range - Janish (Cabrera with avg. range, Janish slightly above)
Arm - Easily Janish
Glove - Close IMO, but give a slight edge to Janish
Instincts - Cabrera (positioning, making plays "outside the box")
DP - I don't see any difference here would like anyone who knows to indicate the difference.

membengal
08-17-2010, 12:41 PM
I have enjoyed O-Cab's leadership, and enjoyed seeing the team with him and how he interacts with his teammates on the field and on the bench. And you may be right that with the game "on the line", O-Cab gives you a better chance in that one at-bat. His years of playing certainly make that a fair argument.

I just think that Janish remains under-appreciated by a chunk of the fanbase for what he has turned himself into. From where he was three years ago to now, I had not much hope that he would be able to step in and ably fill a SS hole like he has. That's progress, and I can't help but admire the work he has put into his game and into trying to get stronger and better as a hitter.

He is far from a zero on the field and at the plate, I guess, remains my point.

Btw, I may have missed where it was discussed on ORG anywhere other than the game thread, but that squeeze Janish got down on Friday night was ridiculous. The ball was boring in at his kneecap and managed to get down a superior bunt. He does the "little things", I submit, well in his own right...

TRF
08-17-2010, 02:38 PM
here are the 8 NL SS's that have enough AB's to qualify them for the batting title...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/ss/league/nl

It seems to me a correction in how SS's perform at the plate is happening right before our eyes.

That doesn't mean Janish, over the course of a full season can top a .700 OPS, but there are 3 guys on this list with an OPS below .700 and one hovering just above it. If you expand it to 300 PA's minimum, 6 guys below .700, 1 at .713, 1 at .715.

I don't know that Janish will ever hit like his frame suggests he could, but I am willing to bet he could manage a .700 OPS over the course of a season. With his defense, I could stomach that until someone emerges as the mainstay at SS.

Brutus
08-17-2010, 02:47 PM
here are the 8 NL SS's that have enough AB's to qualify them for the batting title...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/ss/league/nl

It seems to me a correction in how SS's perform at the plate is happening right before our eyes.

That doesn't mean Janish, over the course of a full season can top a .700 OPS, but there are 3 guys on this list with an OPS below .700 and one hovering just above it. If you expand it to 300 PA's minimum, 6 guys below .700, 1 at .713, 1 at .715.

I don't know that Janish will ever hit like his frame suggests he could, but I am willing to bet he could manage a .700 OPS over the course of a season. With his defense, I could stomach that until someone emerges as the mainstay at SS.

Further, the entire position of SS in the majors this year has a combined OPS of .695

oneupper
08-17-2010, 02:53 PM
The Cards throw Brendan Ryan out there every night with his sub .600 OPS. (.579 at present). I'm sure they'd love to have either of our SS.

pedro
08-17-2010, 02:54 PM
The Cards throw Brendan Ryan out there every night with his sub .600 OPS. (.579 at present). I'm sure they'd love to have either of our SS.

They have an outfield that can hit though.

flyer85
08-17-2010, 02:58 PM
When OCab is healthy, he'll be back...even if Janish is hitting .500. that pretty well sums it up. No way Dusty hangs a vet out to dry.

Brutus
08-17-2010, 03:07 PM
They have an outfield that can hit though.

Yet the Reds lead the Cards in almost every conceivable offensive category.

Scrap Irony
08-17-2010, 03:49 PM
I just think that Janish remains under-appreciated by a chunk of the fanbase for what he has turned himself into.

It's so odd how different people see the same things differently. Almost universally, Redszone has shown a love for Janish's glove. It is absolutely a superior tool.

The question, as always, is his bat. If he can be league average or better at this spot, he provides some pretty decent value, especially considering his salary.

I think most of Redszone would be... okay with Janish at short next season, with the hope/ idea that Cozart or the right free agent would probably provide more value.

_Sir_Charles_
08-17-2010, 04:04 PM
It's so odd how different people see the same things differently. Almost universally, Redszone has shown a love for Janish's glove. It is absolutely a superior tool.

The question, as always, is his bat. If he can be league average or better at this spot, he provides some pretty decent value, especially considering his salary.

I think most of Redszone would be... okay with Janish at short next season, with the hope/ idea that Cozart or the right free agent would probably provide more value.

I agree with all of this, however, I think most of Redszone would've been okay with Janish at short THIS season. But it doesn't matter, because the Reds FO wasn't okay with it. I don't see them being okay with it next season either. I don't agree with it, but there it is.

bucksfan2
08-17-2010, 04:09 PM
I agree with all of this, however, I think most of Redszone would've been okay with Janish at short THIS season. But it doesn't matter, because the Reds FO wasn't okay with it. I don't see them being okay with it next season either. I don't agree with it, but there it is.

I don't know about. I know the people who run the Reds weren't ok with Janish at SS. And to be honest I hope they aren't ok with it next season. I doubt Cabrera will be brought back, although I wouldn't be as opposed to it as many others. SS is a position that can be upgraded. I would be more ok with Janish at SS if Walt was able to go out and sign/trade for a + outfield bat. As mentioned earlier the Cards run out Ryan as their everyday SS. Its a lot easier to swallow Ryan with Holiday that it is Janish with Gomes.

_Sir_Charles_
08-17-2010, 05:35 PM
Okay, let's get serious here. Who are we going to bring in to fill the SS void next season if we aren't going with Janish? I'm dead serious here folks. I know everyone wants Walt to bring in an above average defender that's got a decent bat...but who IS that? Seriously, just how many of those +glove/+bat SS's are there? Not many nowadays. And what team would want to part with one who DOES have one? Again, not many nowadays.


PLAYER TEAM AB H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Hanley Ramirez FLA 439 125 22 16 59 53 69 .285 .365 .453 .819
Alex Gonzalez TOR/ATL 431 111 30 20 64 24 82 .258 .303 .480 .784
Stephen Drew ARI 398 105 22 8 41 47 75 .264 .345 .420 .765
Juan Uribe SF 384 99 21 15 65 34 67 .258 .319 .440 .759
Alexei Ramirez CHW 419 121 21 12 48 18 56 .289 .317 .430 .747
Jose Reyes NYM 438 122 23 8 43 23 53 .279 .315 .418 .733
Derek Jeter NYY 496 138 23 9 52 41 75 .278 .339 .387 .726
Ian Desmond WSH 365 97 20 9 49 17 74 .266 .302 .411 .713
Cliff Penningto OAK 367 95 20 3 31 41 76 .259 .334 .376 .710
Yuniesky Betanc KC 394 105 23 10 51 12 45 .266 .288 .411 .699
Marco Scutaro BOS 488 131 28 7 40 43 57 .268 .330 .369 .698
Erick Aybar LAA 432 117 17 5 26 31 65 .271 .327 .363 .690
Elvis Andrus TEX 446 123 13 0 31 55 77 .276 .362 .318 .680
Jerry Hairston SD 398 101 12 10 48 28 51 .254 .306 .369 .675
Yunel Escobar TOR/ATL 365 94 16 3 29 42 43 .258 .339 .326 .665
Jason Bartlett TB 339 83 19 3 41 36 58 .245 .322 .339 .661
Alcides Escobar MIL 387 97 12 3 33 28 50 .251 .303 .341 .644
Orlando Cabrera CIN 416 108 24 3 37 25 47 .260 .302 .339 .641
Cesar Izturis BAL 355 86 11 1 24 18 37 .242 .286 .282 .567

How would these guys rate with the glove? Seeing as how there's really not a very good stat for measuring defense, I guess this will be debatable.

I see most of the plus gloves in the bottom half of the list. The solid glove in the top half...I don't see any way the team is trading that player.

And for what it's worth, here's Janish this season.


PLAYER TEAM AB H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Paul Janish CIN 102 28 4 3 16 13 12 .275 .362 .402 .764

If Paul can bring a .700 ops (and I think he can), who on that list is an upgrade worth what that player would cost us?

TRF
08-17-2010, 05:57 PM
If I could swing a deal for Ian Desmond, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Young, controllable and a star in the making from some reports i have read.

pedro
08-17-2010, 06:01 PM
Okay, let's get serious here. Who are we going to bring in to fill the SS void next season if we aren't going with Janish? I'm dead serious here folks. I know everyone wants Walt to bring in an above average defender that's got a decent bat...but who IS that? Seriously, just how many of those +glove/+bat SS's are there? Not many nowadays. And what team would want to part with one who DOES have one? Again, not many nowadays.


PLAYER TEAM AB H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Hanley Ramirez FLA 439 125 22 16 59 53 69 .285 .365 .453 .819
Alex Gonzalez TOR/ATL 431 111 30 20 64 24 82 .258 .303 .480 .784
Stephen Drew ARI 398 105 22 8 41 47 75 .264 .345 .420 .765
Juan Uribe SF 384 99 21 15 65 34 67 .258 .319 .440 .759
Alexei Ramirez CHW 419 121 21 12 48 18 56 .289 .317 .430 .747
Jose Reyes NYM 438 122 23 8 43 23 53 .279 .315 .418 .733
Derek Jeter NYY 496 138 23 9 52 41 75 .278 .339 .387 .726
Ian Desmond WSH 365 97 20 9 49 17 74 .266 .302 .411 .713
Cliff Penningto OAK 367 95 20 3 31 41 76 .259 .334 .376 .710
Yuniesky Betanc KC 394 105 23 10 51 12 45 .266 .288 .411 .699
Marco Scutaro BOS 488 131 28 7 40 43 57 .268 .330 .369 .698
Erick Aybar LAA 432 117 17 5 26 31 65 .271 .327 .363 .690
Elvis Andrus TEX 446 123 13 0 31 55 77 .276 .362 .318 .680
Jerry Hairston SD 398 101 12 10 48 28 51 .254 .306 .369 .675
Yunel Escobar TOR/ATL 365 94 16 3 29 42 43 .258 .339 .326 .665
Jason Bartlett TB 339 83 19 3 41 36 58 .245 .322 .339 .661
Alcides Escobar MIL 387 97 12 3 33 28 50 .251 .303 .341 .644
Orlando Cabrera CIN 416 108 24 3 37 25 47 .260 .302 .339 .641
Cesar Izturis BAL 355 86 11 1 24 18 37 .242 .286 .282 .567

How would these guys rate with the glove? Seeing as how there's really not a very good stat for measuring defense, I guess this will be debatable.

I see most of the plus gloves in the bottom half of the list. The solid glove in the top half...I don't see any way the team is trading that player.

And for what it's worth, here's Janish this season.


PLAYER TEAM AB H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Paul Janish CIN 102 28 4 3 16 13 12 .275 .362 .402 .764

If Paul can bring a .700 ops (and I think he can), who on that list is an upgrade worth what that player would cost us?

My guess is they're going to give Cozart the opportunity. He's OPS'ing .752 in AAA w/ 16 HR's.

Cozart profiles as a much better option than Janish IMO.

edabbs44
08-17-2010, 06:44 PM
Playoff baseball in 2010, I'm taking OCab ten times out of ten and not thinking twice.

Scrap Irony
08-17-2010, 06:48 PM
For the season of 2011, I'm picking a combination of Janish and Cozart. I think the Reds will do that as well, considering how well Janish has played at the major league level and the power Cozart has displayed in Louisville.

_Sir_Charles_
08-17-2010, 07:48 PM
My guess is they're going to give Cozart the opportunity. He's OPS'ing .752 in AAA w/ 16 HR's.

Cozart profiles as a much better option than Janish IMO.

I fully agree that they'll give Cozart an opportunity, but I simply don't know that he's better than Janish right now. Paul's somewhat proven what he can do in the bigs...still quite the unknown for Cozart.

westofyou
08-17-2010, 08:14 PM
I fully agree that they'll give Cozart an opportunity, but I simply don't know that he's better than Janish right now. Paul's somewhat proven what he can do in the bigs...still quite the unknown for Cozart.

Proven that he has the glove, the jury's out on the rest.

nemesis
08-17-2010, 11:45 PM
Proven that he has the glove, the jury's out on the rest.

They jury needs to deliberate that he is a different player at the plate this year. He is turning and hard on that inside pitch. Something he couldn't handle last year. If Cabrera comes back and struggles even the slightest in his first 2 or 3 games, Janish better be right back out there.

WVRedsFan
08-18-2010, 12:52 AM
Regardless of anything, when OCab returns, he will start. Case closed.

OnBaseMachine
08-18-2010, 12:59 AM
After tonight's big homer, Janish now has four home runs in 106 atbats this season. Cabrera has three homers in 416 atbats. I think we can all agree that Janish isn't going to continue OPSing at an .810 clip but he doesn't have to. With his defense, if Janish can OPS .700 he would be a very valuable player. Cabrera seems like a very likeable guy and I'm sure he's great in the clubhouse as it seems like all the players like him, but on the field I think the Reds are a better team with Paul Janish at SS.

Brutus
08-18-2010, 01:07 AM
After tonight's big homer, Janish now has four home runs in 106 atbats this season. Cabrera has three homers in 416 atbats. I think we can all agree that Janish isn't going to continue OPSing at an .810 clip but he doesn't have to. With his defense, if Janish can OPS .700 he would be a very valuable player. Cabrera seems like a very likeable guy and I'm sure he's great in the clubhouse as it seems like all the players like him, but on the field I think the Reds are a better team with Paul Janish at SS.

At this point, I see no earthly reason not to start Janish. Even hitting .700 would put him above Major League average at the position for this year. I'm starting to think he can carry .700-725 going forward.

OnBaseMachine
08-18-2010, 04:26 AM
I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, before I looked at Janish's stats, I thought maybe his offensive numbers were due in part to an inflated BABIP. Nope. I just checked, entering Tuesday night's game Janish's BABIP was only .287. He's hitting for a little more power (.127 IsoP this year compared to .063 in 2008 and .094 last season) and he's got an equal amount of walks and strike outs. He's not an .800 OPS bat but I think the guy is improving at the plate. He may no longer be just a .600 OPS type of bat. He may have upped his ceiling to a .675 to .700ish OPS type of hitter.

Ron Madden
08-18-2010, 04:30 AM
If I were King I'd give Janish 98% of the playing time over Cabrera.

But I aint the King.

nemesis
08-18-2010, 04:47 AM
Entering Tuesday night's game Janish's BABIP was only .287

What's league average right now for BABIP?

nate
08-18-2010, 08:46 AM
What's league average right now for BABIP?

.300 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?lg=NL&year=2010&t=b#total).

OnBaseMachine
08-18-2010, 01:06 PM
Fangraphs weighs in on Cabrera/Janish:


While Janish hit well enough in part-time duty before the Cabrera injury he has really stepped it up in his absence, going 13 for 43 (.302 AVG) with four walks (.362 OBP), and four extra base hits (.488 SLG). He has done this without the aid of a ridiculous BABIP, .292 on the season and .289 in August. This adds up to a 0.9 WAR season, which is 0.2 behind Cabrera despite having 331 fewer PA. He deserves a shot to stay in the starting lineup as long as he keeps this up.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-reds-are-past-the-point-of-placating-veterans/

nemesis
08-19-2010, 10:26 AM
Fangraphs weighs in on Cabrera/Janish:



http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-reds-are-past-the-point-of-placating-veterans/


.365/.489/.854 is the line Janish has put up as a starter. In 13 games that he has started, the Reds record is 9-4. He has walked 4 times and K'd 3 in 42 AB's and in those 13 games had had 15 Hits (.319 BA), 2 2B's / 2 HR's and 9 RBI's. Factor in his 11.8 UZR/150 D, he is playing as high a level as any SS in baseball currently. As much as Gomes needs replaced is as much as Janish needs to stay in the lineup.

Chip R
08-19-2010, 10:44 AM
.365/.489/.854 is the line Janish has put up as a starter. In 13 games that he has started, the Reds record is 9-4. He has walked 4 times and K'd 3 in 42 AB's and in those 13 games had had 15 Hits (.319 BA), 2 2B's / 2 HR's and 9 RBI's. Factor in his 11.8 UZR/150 D, he is playing as high a level as any SS in baseball currently. As much as Gomes needs replaced is as much as Janish needs to stay in the lineup.


So when OCab comes back, Janish to LF? ;)

_Sir_Charles_
08-19-2010, 10:58 AM
So when OCab comes back, Janish to LF? ;)

When OCab comes back, OCab to LF. :cool:

edabbs44
08-19-2010, 10:59 AM
.365/.489/.854 is the line Janish has put up as a starter. In 13 games that he has started, the Reds record is 9-4. He has walked 4 times and K'd 3 in 42 AB's and in those 13 games had had 15 Hits (.319 BA), 2 2B's / 2 HR's and 9 RBI's. Factor in his 11.8 UZR/150 D, he is playing as high a level as any SS in baseball currently. As much as Gomes needs replaced is as much as Janish needs to stay in the lineup.

Actually, as a starter in 2010, Janish's line this season is .247/.336/.387. Do you mean since Cabrera went on the DL?

Also, Cabrera since the break put up a .333/.395/.391 line prior to his injury and the Reds were 11-6 in those games.

He also has the 5th best UZR/150 at his position in all of baseball this season.

I really don't think that Janish has to stay in the lineup. But it is nice to have him on the team. I would want Cabrera playing in this atmosphere and I would bet he will be playing once healthy.

OnBaseMachine
08-19-2010, 11:48 AM
Janish narrowly missed a grand slam last night. I thought for sure it was gone off the bat. How awesome would that have been? At this point, I think Janish is better offensively than Cabrera and much better defensively. The Reds are a better team with Janish at SS, IMO. At worst, Janish and Cabrera need to split the rest of the playing time.

Brutus
08-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Janish narrowly missed a grand slam last night. I thought for sure it was gone off the bat. How awesome would that have been? At this point, I think Janish is better offensively than Cabrera and much better defensively. The Reds are a better team with Janish at SS, IMO. At worst, Janish and Cabrera need to split the rest of the playing time.

That ball would have been gone at most parks (sans obviously Boston and perhaps Cleveland, Cincinnati and one or two others).

Unfortunately he hit it right in that little fork area.

medford
09-03-2010, 04:23 PM
OCab back off the DL and 2 game warmup in Dayton, Janish starting at SS tonight. Perhaps a signal of things to come.