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View Full Version : If you're Walt Jocketty in the offseason..



rolenmvp
08-16-2010, 06:55 PM
what player do you go after to improve this ballclub? I believe we will have alittle money to spend this offseason so who would you prefer?

I would go after cliff lee and a big time bat. any thoughts?

zacharync
08-16-2010, 07:12 PM
I would go after a legit lead off hitter. ie. Mccutchen of the Pirates or Gardner of the Yankees. I want to see BP hitting second. Another big bat would be great also.

IMO, I am fine with our lot of starting pitching.

Votto4MVP
08-16-2010, 07:15 PM
We arent gonna have as much money to spend as you think...

Lots of guys are gonna get some big raises such as Votto and stuff.

couch_manager
08-16-2010, 07:31 PM
There aren't a whole lot of free agents available to fill positional needs. Of those that are available, Carl Crawford might be a good fit. He hits pretty well and would bring some speed and better defensive play to leftfield. The only thing is that he already makes $10 million, so I'm sure he's going to want a raise.

As far as pitching, I think we're set but Brandon Webb would be an interesting option if they could get him at a discount. He's also a Kentucky guy and I believe he grew up as a Reds fan so it might be possible.

But like Votto4MVP said, nobody knows how much money they'll have left over after they go to arbitration with some of our guys.

mckbearcat48
08-16-2010, 07:34 PM
Wonder what the Cliff Lee market's going to look like at the Winter Meetings?

mlh1981
08-16-2010, 07:36 PM
I really doubt we would get Andrew McCutchen.

I know the Pirates have a reputation for getting rid of players as they hit their prime, but he's really a centerpiece of the (latest) rebuilding effort there in Pitt.

What about Johnny Damon? He's getting up there in age, but still gets on base, and would love hitting in this ballpark.

bshall2105
08-16-2010, 07:45 PM
Is Angel Pagan going to be availible in the off season? I think he would be a great fit, and can play anywhere in the outfield, as well as leadoff.

UPRedsFan
08-16-2010, 07:47 PM
I'd stay put with the starting pitching and starting 8.

I'd go after a veteran 8th inning guy. No names come to mind. How much longer can Rhodes go? Cordero seems to be losing it already.

lidspinner
08-16-2010, 08:01 PM
give me no Harang and no Bronson, then bring in Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford, sign joey to LTC and lets win the Central for the next 5 years.

Texas Pete
08-16-2010, 08:27 PM
bring in Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford, sign joey to LTC and lets win the Central for the next 5 years.

That would be cool.

redsfan_12
08-16-2010, 08:29 PM
give me no Harang and no Bronson, then bring in Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford, sign joey to LTC and lets win the Central for the next 5 years.

You really don't want Arroyo? I hops we sign him with an option for 2012. He's consistent and eats up the innings

Texas Pete
08-16-2010, 08:30 PM
I really doubt we would get Andrew McCutchen.

I know the Pirates have a reputation for getting rid of players as they hit their prime, but he's really a centerpiece of the (latest) rebuilding effort there in Pitt.

What about Johnny Damon? He's getting up there in age, but still gets on base, and would love hitting in this ballpark.

I'd take McCutchen.

Damon would work too.

bagz
08-16-2010, 09:23 PM
give me no Harang and no Bronson, then bring in Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford, sign joey to LTC and lets win the Central for the next 5 years.

With those 2 players we'd be in really good shape!:thumbup: I like Arroyo but he'll probably be looking for another 10 million a year for and at least a 2 year deal. Thanks but no thanks. We can't afford to sign him plus Lee and Crawford. There is sure to be a bidding war for Lee's services. It helps that we're a contending team. I think we have a good shot of being able to sign him.

webbbj
08-16-2010, 09:33 PM
lets be real pple the reds arent getting cliff lee or carl crawford. when is honestly the last time the reds were able to sign a marquee FA? i see yonder alonso being the new piece that comes to the team next year and they may sign a guy w/ some potential to be very good or use some of their pieces to make trade.

MikeThierry
08-16-2010, 09:36 PM
Do you think the Reds need to address the 3rd base situation? Rolen is playing well right now but he isn't getting any younger.

bshall2105
08-16-2010, 09:39 PM
Do you think the Reds need to address the 3rd base situation? Rolen is playing well right now but he isn't getting any younger.

He's signed for next year, I'd doubt they do anything until he's gone or just not producing.

BPhil4
08-16-2010, 09:41 PM
Is hanley ramierez a fa?? Or could we trade Alonso there and some others for him?

webbbj
08-16-2010, 11:47 PM
Is hanley ramierez a fa?? Or could we trade Alonso there and some others for him?

hes not a FA he just signed an extension for about 5 years a year ago. his name always seem to pop up on this forum, are the fish actually discussing him or is just fans speculating? i would give up alonso, one of the young pitchers not named volquez, or chapman. hanley would be a huuuuge piece since hes freaking awesome hitter and the reds wouldnt have to have alonso or votto change positions.

knoonan991
08-16-2010, 11:56 PM
Is hanley ramierez a fa?? Or could we trade Alonso there and some others for him?

It would take Alonso and the rest of the starters for Louisville.

No way we're getting Hanley, as much as I'd love to.

He's one of the most valuable players in the entire league.

HalMorrisRules
08-17-2010, 12:00 AM
No way Lee would agree to pitch in GABP.

mlh1981
08-17-2010, 12:08 AM
No way Lee would agree to pitch in GABP.

I'm not so sure about that. Some of his recent parks, such as the one in Texas, and Citizens Bank Park, are homer havens.

takealeake
08-17-2010, 12:26 AM
If he can offload Cordero, either as a salary dump, or as a salary swap, and keep everyone else currently on the team basically - that in itself would be an A+ offseason.

couch_manager
08-17-2010, 12:30 AM
If he can offload Cordero, either as a salary dump, or as a salary swap, and keep everyone else currently on the team basically - that in itself would be an A+ offseason.

A salary dump isn't happening for $11 million or whatever he's making. A salary swap sounds wishful--who would swap their crap for somebody else's?

takealeake
08-17-2010, 12:45 AM
A salary dump isn't happening for $11 million or whatever he's making. A salary swap sounds wishful--who would swap their crap for somebody else's?

It happens constantly, most recently the Cubs trading Bradley. I don't think there's anything wishful about it, sometimes players need new scenery and management is sick of them on the roster and would rather give anyone else a chance. I would think it's totally possible.

fewfirstchoice
08-17-2010, 12:49 AM
Fisrt you let Harang, Arroyo, and Hernandez walk

Trade with the Marlins
send Bailey, Cozart, Bray, Mesoraco, J. Fransciso and Alonso to Marlins
and
Reds get Hanley Ramierez, R. Nolasco, and Clay Hensley
its a steep price to pay but it will be well worth it for the best SS in baseball

Then sign John Buck for C

Trade Cordero, Heisey, Valiquette and cash(about 4 mil.) to Dodgers

for

Matt Kemp

Re-sign Rhodes

Re-sign Edmonds for the bench

C- Buck
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Rameriez
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF- Bruce

1) Phillips
2) Rameriez
3) Votto
4) Rolen
5) Kemp
6) Bruce
7) Stubbs
8) Buck

Bench
C- Hannigan
IN- Cairo
IN- Janish
OF- Nix
OF- Edmonds

SP
1) Cueto
2) Volquez
3) Nolasco
4) Leake
5) Wood

BP
Lefty- Chapman
L- Rhodes
Righty- Ondrusek(sp)
R- J. Smith
R- Hensley
R- Burton
CL- Masset

That would be a solid roster with a great young pitching staff. The infield D would be probably the best in the NL and the lineup his stacked from top to bottom. This would be a playoff team for sure. The trades are given up some good young talent but we are also getting good young talent back. We would get a proven SS and proven LF in Ramereiz and Kemp while given up nothing proven other than Cordero. So i think the trades would work.

davereds24
08-17-2010, 12:52 AM
Why do people keep thinking the Reds will sign a #1 starter? Small market teams just don't do that. 1 or 2 of the current young guys will have to develop into a #1, Cueto is not far and hopefully Volquez, Bailey, and/or Chapman will get there.

Giving 20%+ of your payroll to 1 player is suicide.

Orodle
08-17-2010, 12:56 AM
Why would the Dodgers want Cordero? To have two under performing closers?


Fisrt you let Harang, Arroyo, and Hernandez walk

Trade with the Marlins
send Bailey, Cozart, Bray, Mesoraco, J. Fransciso and Alonso to Marlins
and
Reds get Hanley Ramierez, R. Nolasco, and Clay Hensley
its a steep price to pay but it will be well worth it for the best SS in baseball

Then sign John Buck for C

Trade Cordero, Heisey, Valiquette and cash(about 4 mil.) to Dodgers

for

Matt Kemp

Re-sign Rhodes

Re-sign Edmonds for the bench

C- Buck
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Rameriez
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF- Bruce

1) Phillips
2) Rameriez
3) Votto
4) Rolen
5) Kemp
6) Bruce
7) Stubbs
8) Buck

Bench
C- Hannigan
IN- Cairo
IN- Janish
OF- Nix
OF- Edmonds

SP
1) Cueto
2) Volquez
3) Nolasco
4) Leake
5) Wood

BP
Lefty- Chapman
L- Rhodes
Righty- Ondrusek(sp)
R- J. Smith
R- Hensley
R- Burton
CL- Masset

That would be a solid roster with a great young pitching staff. The infield D would be probably the best in the NL and the lineup his stacked from top to bottom. This would be a playoff team for sure. The trades are given up some good young talent but we are also getting good young talent back. We would get a proven SS and proven LF in Ramereiz and Kemp while given up nothing proven other than Cordero. So i think the trades would work.

webbbj
08-17-2010, 01:56 AM
I'm not so sure about that. Some of his recent parks, such as the one in Texas, and Citizens Bank Park, are homer havens.

but he didnt get to choose to play there he was traded to those places. cliff lee just isnt coming here lets be realistic. he either stays in texas or goes to one of the big markets who will pay him the most.

couch_manager
08-17-2010, 03:16 AM
It happens constantly, most recently the Cubs trading Bradley. I don't think there's anything wishful about it, sometimes players need new scenery and management is sick of them on the roster and would rather give anyone else a chance. I would think it's totally possible.

I know it happens, but name for me one time when two teams have swapped crappy players that are making $11 million.

lidspinner
08-17-2010, 08:09 AM
hes not a FA he just signed an extension for about 5 years a year ago. his name always seem to pop up on this forum, are the fish actually discussing him or is just fans speculating? i would give up alonso, one of the young pitchers not named volquez, or chapman. hanley would be a huuuuge piece since hes freaking awesome hitter and the reds wouldnt have to have alonso or votto change positions.


you just stated no way we get Lee or Crawford.......But then come back with a trade for Hanley?

I see why Lee would not want to come here, Hitters ball park and all, but what if we are high bidders? what if he wants to play in a small market where every meal you eat is not in the tabloids? I dont think we should take ourselves out of the running just because......let Cliff Lee turn us down.


edit: Not trying to argue, just wondering why you think we cannot sign Carl and Cliff....more so Carl since he would thrive in this park....

Carl Crawford would love to play here....Of course we need to pay him. But it makes no sense you say that neither of these 2 guys would think of playing for the Reds then say that you want HanRam. The Marlins will not trade their best player unless we give them TOP NOTCH talent that is cheap. Something we just cannot afford to give up. If we got great talent on the cheap, we keep them.

Vottomatic
08-17-2010, 09:53 AM
Here's what I'd do:

1. Do everything possible to sign Cliff Lee as a free agent. Requires giving up no prospects. Probably have to pay him $20M per year for 5 years.
2. If they don't succeed, throw the farm at the Marlins to acquire Josh Johnson, who is signed through 2013 ($7.75M - '11, $13.75M - '12, $13.75M - '13). He's a FA in '14.
3. If they don't succeed acquiring Lee or Johnson, throw the farm at the Royals for Zach Greinke. Greinke is signed through 2012 ($13.5M - '11, $13.5M - '12). FA in '13.

Jocketty showed a penchant for signing big name players while in St. Louis, and doesn't shy away from paying big contracts. And not having a #1 starter is definitely a problem for the Reds right now. I believe the Reds need a #1 starter and are willing to pay for one. Especially if you can get Johnson or Greinke, who are making slightly more than they were paying Harang and Arroyo each.

4. Investigate what it would take to re-sign Arroyo. If he wants the moon, let him walk after next season. If they sign a #1, consider trading Arroyo this off season, coming off his best season ever. His value will be high. And he is low risk for another team since his contract is up after next season.

5. Investigate a salary swap with the Mets. Beltran ($20M - '11) for Cordero ($12M - '11, $1M buyout for '12). I realize the Mets already have K-Rod. But they may want to trade K-Rod ($12.2M - '11, same price option for '12 or a $3.5M buyout), who they're disgruntled with to some other team and then they will need a closer. We'd need some $$$ from them to even it out. OR..........we trade them Cordero and Arroyo ($24M combined) for Beltran and K-Rod ($32M combined). We are loaded with starting pitching, they aren't...........we exchange closers, who each team is disgruntled with...........and we risk hoping Beltran returns to form (he's only 33 years old and coming off injury) and becomes that big bat we need in the lineup. He is only signed through the 2011 season, so it's only a 1 season risk. We take on $8M more, but all salaries are only guaranteed through 2011. So the risk is only for one year. We get a better closer and a chance at a big bat. If we sign or trade for a #1 starter, we don't need Arroyo anyway with Volquez, Leake, Cueto, Wood, Bailey, Chapman in the wings, and cheaper at that.
6. Trade Stubbs and Bailey to the Pirates for McCutcheon. May need to throw in another lower prospect. McCutcheon becomes our leadoff hitter and CFer. We need a tablesetter badly.
7. Investigate trading Phillips and see if there are any takers. I don't like Valaika, but Kingspoint does, so give Valaika a shot and hope Frazier pans out down the road.
8. Re-sign Rhodes at a reasonable rate.
9. If Alonso hasn't been involved in a trade for a #1 starter, consider moving Votto to LF and having Alonso play 1B next season.

If you sign Cliff Lee as a free agent, here is the 25-man:

CF McCutcheon (still making minimum $$$)
2B Phillips ($11M - '11) or Valaika (minimum)
LF Votto (arbitration eligible this off season)
3B Rolen ($8M) and Francisco (Rolen's off days)(minimum)
RF Beltran ($20M - '11), Bruce (arbitration eligible this offseason) or Heisey (min.)
1B Alonso ($1M)
SS OCab ($2M), Janish (min.) or Cozart (min.)
C Hanigan (min.), Hernandez ($3.5M)

If you keep Cairo, you either have to go without Francisco or go without a 5th OFer.

SP - Lee (#1 starter) ($20M approx.)
SP - Cueto (arb.)
SP - Wood (min.)
SP - Leake (min.)
SP - Volquez (arb.)

(in the wings - Chapman ($3.7M))
CL - K-Rod ($12M)
RP - Masset (1.5M)
RP - Ondrusek (min.)
RP - Rhodes (LH) ($2M)
RP - Bray (LH) (arb.)
RP - Chapman (LH) ($3.7M)
RP - Smith (min.)
(in the wings, Donnie Joseph (LH)

The sell to Cliff Lee is pitching with one of the top offenses in baseball behind him.

Girevik
08-17-2010, 09:54 AM
My dream scenario would be to sign Crawford, but I think the odds of that are virtually nil. I think you need to bring Arroyo back, but I'd be okay with letting him walk if Lee were signed (another pipe dream).

More realistically, I don't know who else will be out there to be a leadoff hitter, and I thinks it's more likely they try to develop Stubbs \ Heisey into that role. I'd probably be looking for a SS (unless Janish gets a chance to play the rest of this season and continues to hit), and a long term answer at 3B.

I'd also be trying to move Cordero, but I don't think that's likely, and even if you could swing something his value is probably way down because of the year he's having. I do expect him to have a bit of a bounce back next year.

Griffey012
08-17-2010, 10:10 AM
THE PIRATES WILL NOT TRADE MCCUTCHEON, unless we give them some absolutely ridiculous package, which would involve some guys already on our MLB squad.

Vottomatic
08-17-2010, 10:13 AM
THE PIRATES WILL NOT TRADE MCCUTCHEON, unless we give them some absolutely ridiculous package, which would involve some guys already on our MLB squad.

I traded them two quality major leaguers who are former #1 picks for their #1 pick quality major leaguer.

They get a quality starter and quality CFer to replace McCutcheon. We're loaded with quality starting pitching and outfielders. We need a tablesetter. They need alot of positions filled.

It works for both teams. :beerme:

Griffey012
08-17-2010, 10:38 AM
I traded them two quality major leaguers who are former #1 picks for their #1 pick quality major leaguer.

They get a quality starter and quality CFer to replace McCutcheon. We're loaded with quality starting pitching and outfielders. We need a tablesetter. They need alot of positions filled.

It works for both teams. :beerme:

That's 2 unproven major leaguers for an All-Star type player, then again maybe I, myself, am too high on McCutcheon after watching him tear it up at AAA Indianapolis last season. Stubbs ceiling is what McCutcheon is now. The jury is still out on Bailey.

I think we would be talking more like Stubbs, Bailey, Cozart, Alonso. I just don't think the Pittsburgh franchise itself can afford to trade McCutcheon who I am sure is everyone's favorite player in Pitt.

CySeymour
08-17-2010, 11:09 AM
I honestly believe there is no way possible the Reds can sign Cliff Lee. I think the Yankees are just gonna sit back and wait for the highest bid from another team, then swoop in and blow that offer away.

schmidty622
08-17-2010, 11:34 AM
Wow, we are really playing some MLB2k10 w/ the "fair trade" option turned off.

Vottomatic
08-17-2010, 02:06 PM
I honestly believe there is no way possible the Reds can sign Cliff Lee. I think the Yankees are just gonna sit back and wait for the highest bid from another team, then swoop in and blow that offer away.

Cliff Lee would be stupid to take that much money!!! :D

Votto4MVP
08-17-2010, 02:14 PM
While Cliff Lee is amazing, I think our SP is gonna be great next year and its too risky signing a guy to a 20 mil a year deal as a small market club (see Harang). While Lee is way better then Harang ever ways, if Lee throws his arm out or something like that we are on the hook for that money and essentially would have very little shot at winning the next 5 years with a contract like that on the books that wouldnt be helping.

We arent going to have that much money to spend anyways.

My number one priority would try to get a top of the order LF/CF. I doubt we could get crawford, but find someone that can be a leadoff hitter and play LF or CF in a pinch. Then depending on the progress of Stubbs you could either have the new guy play LF and Stubbs CF or the new guy CF and Heisey LF.

Id let gomes walk too.

GIDP
08-17-2010, 02:15 PM
Its really impossible to predict this but I can list you what is on my mind going into the offseason

Decide if Heisey is good enough to be my every day LF or not. If not find a real option.
Figure out if Ramon is really worth the money or if we would be better off using Mes and Hanigan.
Try hard to find someone to take Cordero with out eating too much money.

Those 3 things are my main issues going into the offseason if I'm Walt.

mckbearcat48
08-17-2010, 02:23 PM
McCutchen is probably untouchable. You don't have the bullets in your system to make that deal without downgrading multiple positions. Stubbs, Bailey, Wood, and one other player MIGHT get him. Then again, you probably don't want to pay that.

As a Cardinal fan, I would think from our perspective, it would take Rasmus, Miller, and Garcia...which doesn't help us either. The Pirates have to show their fans something...and keeping their best player as long as possible is one way to do that. Nobody's getting McCutchen until he leaves to join the Yankees as FA.

Vottomatic
08-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Nobody's getting McCutchen until he leaves to join the Yankees as FA. More reason the Pirates should trade him to the Reds now while they can still get something for him. :D

davereds24
08-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Wow, we are really playing some MLB2k10 w/ the "fair trade" option turned off.

lol exactly. not to mention the $100mil payroll some are considering.

mckbearcat48
08-17-2010, 05:06 PM
More reason the Pirates should trade him to the Reds now while they can still get something for him. :D

Votto...nice work there.