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GOYA
08-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Chiefs @ Bats - 7:05

Sappelt CF
Cozart SS
Alonso 1B
Francisco 3B
Balentien RF
Dorn LF
Mesoraco C
Valaika 2B
LeCure P

Looks like Frazier gets a rest tonight.

AWA85
08-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Decent lineup....

GOYA
08-19-2010, 07:30 PM
Francisco gets the game's first hit with a double to lead off the 2nd

To complete the Wood transaction to Cincy, Fisher is being shipped back to the Bats. He is not on the roster at present.

GOYA
08-19-2010, 07:34 PM
LOL!

Mes with another grand slam.

He CREAMED that ball

REDSEER
08-19-2010, 07:34 PM
Wow. Big time power.

Kiss the Baby00
08-19-2010, 07:35 PM
wow. i love mez. what a stud

membengal
08-19-2010, 07:36 PM
LOL!

Mes with another grand slam.

He CREAMED that ball

You're kidding. Are you kidding?

GIDP
08-19-2010, 07:36 PM
That probably doesnt happen often lol, back to back games with a grand slam and doing it in back to back ABs.

AWA85
08-19-2010, 07:36 PM
September call up?!?!?! Just kidding.... kind of.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 07:36 PM
You're kidding. Are you kidding?

Not kidding. Went over the seats in left.

GIDP
08-19-2010, 07:37 PM
You're kidding. Are you kidding?

Nope. Apparently hes hit 103rd and 104th grand slams in Bats history as an extra little bit of information.

Grande Donkey
08-19-2010, 07:38 PM
Not kidding. Went over the seats in left.

For those of us not familiar with Louisvilles stadium, would you mind to guestimate on the distance?

GOYA
08-19-2010, 07:39 PM
I'd guess 420

membengal
08-19-2010, 07:39 PM
Not kidding. Went over the seats in left.

Wow.

And, wow.

Pulling up milb.com to Gameday this. Just because.

GIDP
08-19-2010, 07:39 PM
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9387/mesorhomer.jpg

Grande Donkey
08-19-2010, 07:40 PM
I'd guess 420

:eek:

GOYA
08-19-2010, 07:40 PM
If you've ever seen those show off slow-pitch softball guys hitting monster shots, that's what it looked like. A big uppercut swing.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 07:40 PM
If you've ever seen those show off slow-pitch softball guys hitting monster shots, that's what it looked like. A big uppercut swing.

Given the situation, I guess he knew exactly what pitch was coming. He did not miss.

muddie
08-19-2010, 07:41 PM
Unreal!!! It took a few posts for me to realize this wasn't a joke. Awesome.

GOYA
08-19-2010, 07:42 PM
4-0 Bats after 2

It went like this:

Francisco line drive double
Balentien single just over the 2B glove
Dorn walk
Mes slam

batsfan
08-19-2010, 07:50 PM
:eek:

Probably more like 400 according to the chart in the media guide, but UNBELIEVABLE!!!

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 08:00 PM
Dayton is scoreless through 3.5. Tim Crabbe is on the mound, has looked good so far.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 08:02 PM
Carolina is down 2-1. James Avery is on the mound for the Mudcats.

Lynchburg is down 3-0. Justin Walker on the mound for the Hillcats.

muddie
08-19-2010, 08:04 PM
Negron has led off two nights back to back with a double.

cinreds21
08-19-2010, 08:06 PM
2-1 Baybears after 3. RBI double for Terrero, scoring Negron.

NorrisHopper30
08-19-2010, 08:12 PM
Mesoraco is OPSing 2.600 in AAA. Bring him up!!!

GOYA
08-19-2010, 08:16 PM
After 4

4-2 Bats

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 08:24 PM
Dayton down 1-0 after a sac fly in the 5th.

aubashbrother
08-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Sorry if this has been posted but this is From Jim Callis Twitter


For real. @nrp90: do you think Meseraco is for real? Has he put it together? Or just a flash?

http://twitter.com/jimcallisBA

mace
08-19-2010, 08:39 PM
Cody Puckett hit a 3-run HR, his 14th, and Lynchburg scored 5 in the third; now up 5-4.

GOYA
08-19-2010, 08:43 PM
Francisco HR

6-2 Bats

mace
08-19-2010, 08:45 PM
The DSL Reds romped today, 11-1. Our man Sanchez had a 2B and 3B. Now at .352.

The sizzling Wandy Peralta, just turned 19, had this line: 7 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 3 K. In his last six starts, he has surrendered 22 hits in 33.2 innings. His ERA is 2.24.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 08:45 PM
Mesoraco's estimated slam distance tonight was 430 according to the Bats radio guy.

batsfan
08-19-2010, 08:55 PM
Mesoraco's estimated slam distance tonight was 430 according to the Bats radio guy.

I think they said 430 for LAST nights slam.

knoonan991
08-19-2010, 08:57 PM
I think they said 430 for LAST nights slam.

I'm pretty sure it was tonight's because he mentioned it being in LF.

I could be wrong though.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 08:59 PM
I think they said 430 for LAST nights slam.

Mesoraco has some power, but I don't know if he has 430 foot opposite field power (which is what last nights was). I am pretty sure it was for tonights.

backbencher
08-19-2010, 09:01 PM
I love that there is even a debate over WHICH slam was 430 feet.

GIDP
08-19-2010, 09:07 PM
I think it was the 3rd one

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 09:21 PM
Lynchburg is up 10-5. Lots of offense in that one for the Hillcats. They have 15 hits through 6 innings.

GOYA
08-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Bats win 6-2


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Sappelt CF 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .300
Cozart SS 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .261
Alonso 1B 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .298
Francisco, J 3B 4 2 2 1 0 1 2 0 2 .290
Balentien RF 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .279
Dorn LF 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .281
Mesoraco C 3 1 1 0 0 1 4 0 1 .429
Valaika 2B 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .303
LeCure P 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .111
Castillo PH 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .264

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
LeCure (W, 8-3) 7.0 4 2 2 2 6 0 3.67
Herrera 2.0 2 0 0 1 1 0 3.90

mace
08-19-2010, 09:28 PM
Lynchburg is up 10-5. Lots of offense in that one for the Hillcats. They have 15 hits through 6 innings.

Miguel Rojas has three of those. He's been hitting very well since he came off the DL a few days ago. Soto also has three. Chris Richburg has a HR, to go along with Puckett's.

Richburg has been tearing it up in Lynchburg, to the tune of .363 in over 90 AB. Combined with Dayton, he has 19 HR.

mace
08-19-2010, 09:30 PM
Dayton lost 1-0, through no fault of Tim Crabbe, Tzu-Kai Chiu and Josh Smith, who gave up only three hits.

mace
08-19-2010, 09:32 PM
Billings has staked Tanner Robles to a 2-0 in the first, though the only hit was a single by Yorman.

muddie
08-19-2010, 09:38 PM
Middle of eighth and Carolina down 4-1. Boxberger on in relief walks 3 in one inning but only gives up one run. Negron is 2 for 4.

texasdave
08-19-2010, 09:39 PM
Boxberger has taken to relieving like a cat to water.

VR
08-19-2010, 09:46 PM
any video on the bats?

muddie
08-19-2010, 09:49 PM
Justin Freeman on for Carolina. The kid K's the first batter he faces. Still 4-1 Mobile.

muddie
08-19-2010, 09:53 PM
Mobile gets a single, triple, and sac fly and are now up 6-1 in the 9th. Freeman still on.

cinreds21
08-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Boxberger has taken to relieving like a cat to water.

It's going to be interesting to see if BBox can become a good reliever because thus far he has not been impressive at all. I understand why they did it, I just hope it doesn't backfire. Avery was talking about someone yesterday, who was their minor league pitcher of the year a few years back, (they were talking about Stewart and Jordan Smith going from starting to relieving) and he said he was a nasty starter but could not find it out of the pen and was eventually traded. I cannot recall the pitcher's name.

muddie
08-19-2010, 10:01 PM
Ballgame, Mudcats go down 6-1.

cinreds21
08-19-2010, 10:04 PM
We are brutal. At least we get a good draft pick


wait...:(

muddie
08-19-2010, 10:24 PM
Mobile has scored 19 runs in the first two games of the series. 'Brutul' is a good description..

GOYA
08-19-2010, 10:36 PM
Columbus lost to SWB again.
The Bats are a half game out of first again.

muddie
08-19-2010, 10:44 PM
If the Bats win the West and the Bulls maintain their standing, Durham will be in Louisville September 8 and 9 to begin the first round of playoffs. The series will return to Durham on the 10th for whatever games are left to play to determine a winner.

cinreds21
08-19-2010, 10:47 PM
Guess I'm going to Durham again. Yay!

11larkin11
08-19-2010, 10:52 PM
The Bats owe Durham right? Its gotta be their year right?

A lot depends on how bare the Bats roster is after September 1.

mace
08-19-2010, 11:37 PM
Four hits for Soto tonight, three each by Richburg and Rojas. Lynchburg wins 11-8.

dougdirt
08-19-2010, 11:38 PM
Billings is up 9-1. Yorman is 2-4 with a double. Tucker Barnhart is 2-2 with 2 walks.

GOYA
08-19-2010, 11:38 PM
The Bats owe Durham right?

To put it mildly.

The Bats gave them a good fight last year.


Durham Bulls vs. Louisville Bats - 2009
Game 1: DUR 8, LOU 4
Game 2: LOU 5, DUR 2
Game 3: DUR 4, LOU 3
Game 4: LOU 10, DUR 7
Game 5: DUR 5, LOU 3

tipdogusaf
08-19-2010, 11:43 PM
Boxberger has taken to relieving like a cat to water.

For some reason I find that absolutely hilarious. :D

11larkin11
08-19-2010, 11:51 PM
To put it mildly.

The Bats gave them a good fight last year.


Durham Bulls vs. Louisville Bats - 2009
Game 1: DUR 8, LOU 4
Game 2: LOU 5, DUR 2
Game 3: DUR 4, LOU 3
Game 4: LOU 10, DUR 7
Game 5: DUR 5, LOU 3

It was rhetorical, FWIW. I knew they did :beerme:

Hopefully the leftovers can push the team forward in September. I'd like to see Frazier as the guy that leads it.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2010, 12:20 AM
Like to see Neftali hit like he has tonight. Not enough of these this season for him. I still have hope, though recognize his star has dimmed considerably.

mace
08-20-2010, 12:31 AM
The Billings final was 11-2. Barnhart finished 3 for 3 with two walks, two doubles and 4 RBIs. The catching in the organization has been looking right smart lately.

Nice pitching by Robles, Drew Hayes and Matt Leonard.

fearofpopvol1
08-20-2010, 12:52 AM
They never should have moved Boxberger from starting. At least not until August. He was doing very well there.

corkedbat
08-20-2010, 12:57 AM
Mes is on a 142 HR/568 RBI pace over a full AAA season - just sayin' :)

OnBaseMachine
08-20-2010, 12:57 AM
The Billings final was 11-2. Barnhart finished 3 for 3 with two walks, two doubles and 4 RBIs. The catching in the organization has been looking right smart lately.

Nice pitching by Robles, Drew Hayes and Matt Leonard.

Yorman also went 2-for-5 with a double and his 6th stolen base.

Tucker Barnhart is only 19 years old and is hitting .326/.434/.416 - .850 OPS in 89 atbats. 15 BB/18 K and has eight doubles.

aubashbrother
08-20-2010, 12:59 AM
I really liked Barnhart when he was drafted nice to see him doing well

corkedbat
08-20-2010, 12:59 AM
Yorman also went 2-for-5 with a double and his 6th stolen base.

Tucker Barnhart is only 19 years old and is hitting .326/.434/.416 - .850 OPS in 89 atbats. 15 BB/18 K and has eight doubles.

The individual performances in this system just keep getting better and better. I keep hedging, nut I have to say that this is the deepest I've seen the Reds system in over 40 years.

OnBaseMachine
08-20-2010, 03:36 AM
“That stuff just doesn't happen,” Louisville manager Rick Sweet said of the consecutive grand slams. “But he's a big, strong kid, he got ahead in the count, got a couple of pitches he liked and jumped on them.”


http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100819/SPORTS07/308190075/1036/Devin+Mesoraco+slams+door+again+as+Bats+beat+Syrac use+6-2

mace
08-20-2010, 10:31 AM
The individual performances in this system just keep getting better and better. I keep hedging, nut I have to say that this is the deepest I've seen the Reds system in over 40 years.

You know, this is a bit confounding to me. I agree with the statement. There are a whole lot of guys to be excited about at this point, and most of them at the key positions (pitcher, catcher, shortstop and center field). But at the same time, the talent/performance level is fairly abject at three important, consecutive stops (A, A+ and AA). I guess I think we need to temper our enthusiasm with that caveat.

Caveat Emperor
08-20-2010, 11:13 AM
You know, this is a bit confounding to me. I agree with the statement. There are a whole lot of guys to be excited about at this point, and most of them at the key positions (pitcher, catcher, shortstop and center field). But at the same time, the talent/performance level is fairly abject at three important, consecutive stops (A, A+ and AA). I guess I think we need to temper our enthusiasm with that caveat.

I'm not worried. Guys move through the system at different speeds. Look at Mesoraco -- starts the season in A+ ball and runs through to AAA by the end of the year. The "middle" of the system A/A+/AA isn't quite as important to me as the beginning (are we starting off with great talent in the instructional leagues and rookie leagues?) and the end (are we pushing great talent to AAA and the majors?). I guess it sucks for the people going to minor league games -- but my goal is seeing the Reds win titles, not the Carolina Mudcats.

batsfan
08-20-2010, 11:56 AM
To put it mildly.

The Bats gave them a good fight last year.


Durham Bulls vs. Louisville Bats - 2009
Game 1: DUR 8, LOU 4
Game 2: LOU 5, DUR 2
Game 3: DUR 4, LOU 3
Game 4: LOU 10, DUR 7
Game 5: DUR 5, LOU 3

Here is the Bulls - Bats playoff history

In 1998, Bulls win 3 - 0 in the Semifinals.
In 2003, Bulls win 3 - 1 in the Semifinals.
In 2008, Bulls win 3 - 1 in the Semifinals.
In 2009, Bulls win 3 - 2 in the Semifinals.

Hopefully this will be the year to beat the Bulls, if (and a big if) the Bats can win the division - they are still .5 back.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2010, 12:54 PM
I'm not worried. Guys move through the system at different speeds. Look at Mesoraco -- starts the season in A+ ball and runs through to AAA by the end of the year. The "middle" of the system A/A+/AA isn't quite as important to me as the beginning (are we starting off with great talent in the instructional leagues and rookie leagues?) and the end (are we pushing great talent to AAA and the majors?). I guess it sucks for the people going to minor league games -- but my goal is seeing the Reds win titles, not the Carolina Mudcats.

That's a really good point and one I often overlook. The farm pipeline is in really good shape, especially considering the young talent in the majors and at AAA.

Tim Naehring, years ago, insisted that a team needed one impact player and some replacement level depth from its farm every year. This season, the Reds have gotten two impact starting pitchers (Leake and Wood), an impact reliever (Ondrusek), an impact CF (Stubbs), and two high level replacement players (Heisey and Jordan Smith) from the minors.

Next season should see the emergence of at least two more impact players, if not three, four, or five (any combination of Mesoraco, Cozart, Chapman, Francisco, and Alonso). Depending on trades and free agent signings, they might see another quality bench bat or two (Frazier and or Valaika) as well, not to mention a couple more relievers (Valiquette and Donnie Joseph).

Lots to like about the next few years in Reds Country, but I don't know if anything is better than realizing how stacked that pipelline really is. They've got replacements for their replacements and extra options at literally every position on the diamond. And all of it should be ready by the summer of 2011.

membengal
08-20-2010, 01:12 PM
Yup, scrap.

And add in the investment they have made in international signings set to bubble up to Dayton next year, and there are potential shots in the arm for the system in 2013/14 as well. Delightful.

mace
08-20-2010, 02:10 PM
Scrap's point is well-taken: that the merits of the farm system should be viewed with an awareness of all the young players it has recently supplied to the current ML club. Couldn't agree more. I also agree that the rookie teams are flush with exciting talent. They're very fun to follow. I happen to think that a hefty percentage of the system's most promising starting pitchers, for instance, have not yet reached Billings.

All that said, I could feel it with more conviction if Dayton, Lynchburg and Carolina weren't getting their teeth kicked in, night after night (and for consecutive years now). Intellectually, I understand the mitigating circumstances involved with that. I suppose it's just a reflex.

Put it this way: I can understand if, partly because of all the losing at the middle levels, the Reds' system is rated lower than we might think it should be. Knowing the talent as we do, we have ample reason to disagree. But it's easy to see how it could go down that way.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2010, 02:25 PM
All that said, I could feel it with more conviction if Dayton, Lynchburg and Carolina weren't getting their teeth kicked in, night after night (and for consecutive years now).

Lynchburg's record is not that bad. Now that Mez has moved up, the AA group is similar to the Lynchburg group -- nobody profiles as a major league starter on the mound or in the field. Some guys who could make it as a utility player or bullpenner. For example, I think Brodie Greene stands a good chance to be a supersub. Maybe Kris Negron, too. Joseph and another arm here or there could help the Reds in relief somewhere along the line. Meanwhile, despite the fact they've played very poorly as a team, Dayton does have at least a couple guys who could play larger roles with the Reds -- Gregorius, LaMarre and HRod. It's not a team bereft of talent.

So, while it might appear that the A clubs are wastelands compared to the upper and lower reaches of the system, they really aren't bone dry. You want that pipeline to at least keep dripping, and I think it will.

Caveat Emperor
08-20-2010, 02:58 PM
All that said, I could feel it with more conviction if Dayton, Lynchburg and Carolina weren't getting their teeth kicked in, night after night (and for consecutive years now). Intellectually, I understand the mitigating circumstances involved with that. I suppose it's just a reflex.

As I said in a previous post (maybe on another thread) -- I'm a Cincinnati Reds fan. I want what is best for the Cincinnati Reds.

The individual minor league teams serve zero purpose to me other than to prepare talent to play on the Cincinnati Reds or prepare talent to be traded to acquire players to play on the Cincinnati Reds. I really don't care if every affiliate from Billings up to Louisville finish dead last every season -- the ultimate goal of the system is to develop individual players with the skills necessary to be big league ballplayers. So long as that goal is being accomplished, the rest of the issues are collateral to me.

I know a lot of people are fans of their individual local teams -- but when I look at a minor league box score, the only thing I'm looking for is individual lines. If Carolina blows out some team 15-3, I'm not thinking "Great, a win for the Mudcats," I'm thinking "Wow, I'll bet some bats really went off last night."

I get the whole "winning culture" thing -- but I'd rather have a system full of future superstars on losing squads than a system full of career minor leaguers and role players who win a lot of ballgames. More Yonder Alonsos and Juan Franciscos, fewer AJ Zapps and Rob Strattons.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2010, 03:17 PM
Good point, Caveat, though I'd also like to see teams that win. Louisville, over the past two or three years (this one, too) is perhaps the perfect marriage of both.

That team has one of everything and two of some others.

Brutus
08-20-2010, 03:21 PM
As I said in a previous post (maybe on another thread) -- I'm a Cincinnati Reds fan. I want what is best for the Cincinnati Reds.

The individual minor league teams serve zero purpose to me other than to prepare talent to play on the Cincinnati Reds or prepare talent to be traded to acquire players to play on the Cincinnati Reds. I really don't care if every affiliate from Billings up to Louisville finish dead last every season -- the ultimate goal of the system is to develop individual players with the skills necessary to be big league ballplayers. So long as that goal is being accomplished, the rest of the issues are collateral to me.

I know a lot of people are fans of their individual local teams -- but when I look at a minor league box score, the only thing I'm looking for is individual lines. If Carolina blows out some team 15-3, I'm not thinking "Great, a win for the Mudcats," I'm thinking "Wow, I'll bet some bats really went off last night."

I get the whole "winning culture" thing -- but I'd rather have a system full of future superstars on losing squads than a system full of career minor leaguers and role players who win a lot of ballgames. More Yonder Alonsos and Juan Franciscos, fewer AJ Zapps and Rob Strattons.

I agree to a point, CE, but I think you have to be careful to consider these teams are fixtures in their communities and (in most cases) privately owned businesses that also need to thrive for the relationship to survive.

The Reds & Bats have a tremendous working relationship, but in the case of Louisville, if/when they're in the playoffs, the Reds need to be cognizant of the fact that attendance pays the Bats' bills and Louisville wants to succeed too. No question a minor league's team's first purpose is to develop talent for their parent club (hence the Player Development Contract they sign with the big league team)... but the relationship really does need to go both ways.

If the Reds paid no attention to the well-being of their affiliates, they would have a hard time finding and keeping teams with them. I totally agree with you the priority should be (and is understood to be) on the Reds and their development of prospects. However, teams just can't say 'screw 'em when it comes to the minor league clubs. They are also operating a business and trying to generate fan support. Those fans do have to pay for the ballparks, stadium operations equipment and some of the other loose expenses not covered by the Major League clubs.

mace
08-20-2010, 03:21 PM
I do think there's something to be said for a winning culture; but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the doubt that creeps in when your organization suffers heavily in the W-L department. I, too, love the talent in the system, but I sometimes wonder if I'm kidding myself a bit. I mean, the teams that are beating up on the Reds at three levels certainly appear to have something that our teams don't. Little things like hitting and pitching. Sure, it's feasible that the Reds' teams are outfitted with a small core of good prospects on those rosters, in which case it would follow that the rest of the guys must really stink (in a way that's immaterial, since you only need a few good men on every club). But even that has to be an issue on some level--depth, obviously.

Hey, I'm the guy who every year wants to extend our top 40 by another 10 or so, because there are always players whom I really like but won't get ranked. I love the art of identifying prospects, and I agree that that's what it's all about. I just wonder sometimes if there's a disconnect between our appraisal of the talent and what's actually happening on the field.

dougdirt
08-20-2010, 03:38 PM
I do think there's something to be said for a winning culture; but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the doubt that creeps in when your organization suffers heavily in the W-L department. I, too, love the talent in the system, but I sometimes wonder if I'm kidding myself a bit. I mean, the teams that are beating up on the Reds at three levels certainly appear to have something that our teams don't. Little things like hitting and pitching. Sure, it's feasible that the Reds' teams are outfitted with a small core of good prospects on those rosters, in which case it would follow that the rest of the guys must really stink (in a way that's immaterial, since you only need a few good men on every club). But even that has to be an issue on some level--depth, obviously.

Hey, I'm the guy who every year wants to extend our top 40 by another 10 or so, because there are always players whom I really like but won't get ranked. I love the art of identifying prospects, and I agree that that's what it's all about. I just wonder sometimes if there's a disconnect between our appraisal of the talent and what's actually happening on the field.

Here is the issue with looking at W/L records and using it to gauge the talent.... some places have a bunch of older guys who are better players now than other guys, but aren't going to be better players in 5 years. The Twins for example move guys extremely slow, almost always a league per year. It should be expected that their teams are going to be better than most others simply by the fact that they are going to have more experience and likely better current players even if they may not be better prospects because of it. Prospects are about what they will become, not so much what they are today. Look at Dayton for example. DiDi Gregorius, in my opinion, is the best prospect on that team. He currently has a sub .700 OPS. He isn't the best current player. But he is likely the best prospect on the team.

Mario-Rijo
08-20-2010, 03:43 PM
I do think there's something to be said for a winning culture; but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the doubt that creeps in when your organization suffers heavily in the W-L department. I, too, love the talent in the system, but I sometimes wonder if I'm kidding myself a bit. I mean, the teams that are beating up on the Reds at three levels certainly appear to have something that our teams don't. Little things like hitting and pitching. Sure, it's feasible that the Reds' teams are outfitted with a small core of good prospects on those rosters, in which case it would follow that the rest of the guys must really stink (in a way that's immaterial, since you only need a few good men on every club). But even that has to be an issue on some level--depth, obviously.

Hey, I'm the guy who every year wants to extend our top 40 by another 10 or so, because there are always players whom I really like but won't get ranked. I love the art of identifying prospects, and I agree that that's what it's all about. I just wonder sometimes if there's a disconnect between our appraisal of the talent and what's actually happening on the field.

This is an organization just freshly littered with prospects (past half a dozen seasons or so) and additionally sometimes there is a lull. I have faith that every level will eventually mostly always be competitive. I think these minor league organizations (along with everyone else) need to recognize this.

mace
08-20-2010, 03:56 PM
Here is the issue with looking at W/L records and using it to gauge the talent.... some places have a bunch of older guys who are better players now than other guys, but aren't going to be better players in 5 years. The Twins for example move guys extremely slow, almost always a league per year. It should be expected that their teams are going to be better than most others simply by the fact that they are going to have more experience and likely better current players even if they may not be better prospects because of it. Prospects are about what they will become, not so much what they are today. Look at Dayton for example. DiDi Gregorius, in my opinion, is the best prospect on that team. He currently has a sub .700 OPS. He isn't the best current player. But he is likely the best prospect on the team.

I can buy that . . . if it can be demonstrated that the Reds' clubs are typically younger or less experienced than their competition. Is that the case? (I'm not challenging the statement . . . just asking.)

mace
08-20-2010, 04:00 PM
This is an organization just freshly littered with prospects (past half a dozen seasons or so) and additionally sometimes there is a lull. I have faith that every level will eventually mostly always be competitive. I think these minor league organizations (along with everyone else) need to recognize this.

And there might be an addendum to that. The pipeline, as you say, has been filled more recently than in other organizations . . . plus the fact that the big-league club had so many holes and/or was so lacking in talent. The upshot has been that a lot of the best prospects were elevated quickly to Cincinnati, leaving some holes behind them at the minor-league level.

Mario-Rijo
08-20-2010, 04:43 PM
And there might be an addendum to that. The pipeline, as you say, has been filled more recently than in other organizations . . . plus the fact that the big-league club had so many holes and/or was so lacking in talent. The upshot has been that a lot of the best prospects were elevated quickly to Cincinnati, leaving some holes behind them at the minor-league level.

Right, this F.O. has a tendency to move guys fairly slow as well so in time I think every level will have a smooth, steady flow of talent. That's the idea anyway.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2010, 08:01 PM
Slowly? For lesser lights. Perhaps.

Just this season, however, Mesoraco has jumped three levels.

Donnie Joseph, too.

Perez has gone through four, though that's a special case.

I would agree that the Reds typically are conservative in where they place prospects at the beginning of their careers and the beginning of seasons. Though Mike Leake is the exception that proves the rule.)

Mario-Rijo
08-21-2010, 07:15 AM
Slowly? For lesser lights. Perhaps.

Just this season, however, Mesoraco has jumped three levels.

Donnie Joseph, too.

Perez has gone through four, though that's a special case.

I would agree that the Reds typically are conservative in where they place prospects at the beginning of their careers and the beginning of seasons. Though Mike Leake is the exception that proves the rule.)

Well once we are pretty solid at the major league level all the way around that should start to trickle down. Ideally at some point there won't be as many opportunities for guys to move so fast. Though that is more like a dream scenario but you get the idea and I'd imagine we should be farily solid at most levels at eventually.

Mes has been at 3 levels but has only been promoted twice. While somewhat rapid not unheard of.

Scrap Irony
08-21-2010, 01:08 PM
You didn't complain or ask about the Reds doing things unheard of. You complained about them not moving prospects fast enough.

Three levels in one year is as fast as any team moves their prospects.

Too, while your scenerio about kids not being able to move up so fast sounds awesome, I don't know if it's possible. Is there a minor league system that has so many solid position prospects?

Why does that matter? Because you don't want to set up unrealistic expectations.

Mario-Rijo
08-22-2010, 04:09 PM
You didn't complain or ask about the Reds doing things unheard of. You complained about them not moving prospects fast enough.

Three levels in one year is as fast as any team moves their prospects.

Too, while your scenerio about kids not being able to move up so fast sounds awesome, I don't know if it's possible. Is there a minor league system that has so many solid position prospects?

Why does that matter? Because you don't want to set up unrealistic expectations.

I have complained about their slow moving nature before but wasn't complaining about it here was just stating fact. Sure they have some guys every season for one reason or another who move fast but they are usually the exception and not the rule.

It may not be possible but the idea is to have most minor league teams competitive at any given time and I think that is doable and especially once the Major League team has few to no holes. Sure every season it's likely some affiliate (maybe even 2) will be suffering but I doubt every year 3-4 of them will be.