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westofyou
08-20-2010, 03:03 PM
Interesting read on catching



Buster Posey showed up in the big leagues as a polished, patient hitter, setting a tone for plate discipline that even veteran players had to admire. He also has one of the strongest, most accurate throwing arms in the National league. There are aspects of the catcher's art, however, that he needs to learn.

When Raul Ibanez tripled off reliever Jeremy Affeldt in the seventh inning last night, scoring Chase Utley from second base for a 6-2 lead, Mike Krukow told his audience that "Posey tipped that pitch."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/threedotblog/detail?entry_id=70461#ixzz0xAsKd92r

TheNext44
08-20-2010, 03:07 PM
very interesting. But wasn't Krukow a pitcher? Maybe he was a catcher in the minors before hei was a pitcher, but he definitely was a pitcher in the majors.

marcshoe
08-20-2010, 03:08 PM
I'm not going to be the picky guy who points out that Krukow was a pticher, not a catcher. Somebody else can do that.

marcshoe
08-20-2010, 03:08 PM
See? 44 did it.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 03:09 PM
See? 44 did it.

yeah someone did it in the comments of the blog as well

marcshoe
08-20-2010, 03:10 PM
And Wiki says he was drafted as a catcher. Looked it up because such things bug me.

Mario-Rijo
08-20-2010, 03:26 PM
Interesting though that it was again the Phillies stealing signs, alledgedly.

Ghosts of 1990
08-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Nice find, WOY.

I hate to think of them wasting Posey's career behind the dish but it sounds like he's just that good that he's got to be back there.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Interesting though that it was again the Phillies stealing signs, alledgedly.

That's not stealing a sign per se, in essence that's taking advantage of someone who doesn't think the other team is paying attention.

That's money.

hebroncougar
08-20-2010, 04:08 PM
So next time, he drills Utley. And they both learn a lesson.

traderumor
08-20-2010, 04:16 PM
I find no wrongdoing in breaking someone else's code of communication in a competitive environment. Another way of saying it is that if someone flashes their cards at you, is it wrong to look at their hand?

Mario-Rijo
08-20-2010, 04:36 PM
I find no wrongdoing in breaking someone else's code of communication in a competitive environment. Another way of saying it is that if someone flashes their cards at you, is it wrong to look at their hand?

Apparently neither do the Phillies. And to answer your question no it's not wrong if they flash them at you, but it's debatable at the very least least to look just because if you do you can see their cards without them flashing them.

RedsManRick
08-20-2010, 04:48 PM
I wish more ex-player analysts would talk about things like this rather than citing a guy's batting average during day games when he's wearing blue boxers. Good stuff.

_Sir_Charles_
08-20-2010, 04:56 PM
I more ex-player analysts would talk about things like this rather than citing a guy's batting average during day games when he's wearing blue boxers. Good stuff.

IMO, Brantley's actually VERY good about this kind of stuff. When he's actually talking about the pitchers and not his appetite, his insights are nice to hear.

traderumor
08-20-2010, 05:04 PM
Apparently neither do the Phillies. And to answer your question no it's not wrong if they flash them at you, but it's debatable at the very least least to look just because if you do you can see their cards without them flashing them.Signals are used for communication, but are not a necessity. The pitcher could call his own pitches, batters could bunt, squeeze, hit & run without flashing a sign, for example. That makes it difficult to say a team is cheating for cracking a code on signals and using it to their advantage. If you're not smart enough to develop a code that cannot be easily broken, then someone else smart enough to read the code is simply winning at a part of the game.

Food for thought, if it is ethically wrong for the offense to tip pitches to the batter, then it is wrong for the catcher to use deceptive glove smacks to deceive a hitter on the location of a pitch.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Food for thought, if it is ethically wrong for the offense to tip pitches to the batter, then it is wrong for the catcher to use deceptive glove smacks to deceive a hitter on the location of a pitch.

Back when Connie Mack caught (when the catcher was a few feet back from the current position) he was adept at two tricks that he was not caught doing often, but was known to do at least every game.

He would lift the batters bat a tad with his glove when he did move up a bit closer to the dish (generally done when a man was on base) when he wasn't close in he was known for the ability to make a sound with fingers that sounded like the batter had foul tipped the pitch, which he would then catch the ball for the out and he was probably responsible for the 1891 rule change to make a batter not out if the catcher caught a foul tip with fewer than two strikes.

RedsManRick
08-20-2010, 06:53 PM
IMO, Brantley's actually VERY good about this kind of stuff. When he's actually talking about the pitchers and not his appetite, his insights are nice to hear.

And Joe Morgan is (gasp) actually quite good as well when he's talking about how you actually play the game instead of things about which he knows very little...

RedsManRick
08-20-2010, 06:56 PM
He would lift the batters bat a tad with his glove when he did move up a bit closer to the dish (generally done when a man was on base)

How in the world did that work? Was he purposefully interfering on the swing?

marcshoe
08-20-2010, 06:58 PM
woy, that's a great story.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 07:11 PM
How in the world did that work? Was he purposefully interfering on the swing?

Yes, and mostly he did it when the lone umpire would take a spot in the field to call pitches, I guess without being on top of him he couldn't detect it. Also note that bats were heaver, swings more calculated and thus a tad slower back then.

_Sir_Charles_
08-20-2010, 07:26 PM
Yes, and mostly he did it when the lone umpire would take a spot in the field to call pitches, I guess without being on top of him he couldn't detect it. Also note that bats were heaver, swings more calculated and thus a tad slower back then.

Wait...back up. They played with no umpire behind the catcher? The ump called pitches from the infield?

VR
08-20-2010, 07:28 PM
IMO, Brantley's actually VERY good about this kind of stuff. When he's actually talking about the pitchers and not his appetite, his insights are nice to hear.

The Volquez game he did from behind home plate was spectacular.

_Sir_Charles_
08-20-2010, 07:31 PM
The Volquez game he did from behind home plate was spectacular.

Good point (plus that huge order placed to the usher was hilarious). But in general, he's outstanding when discussing pitching mechanics. He's ALWAYS been spot on when it comes to Harang too.

westofyou
08-20-2010, 07:53 PM
Wait...back up. They played with no umpire behind the catcher? The ump called pitches from the infield?
Until they instituted the rule that each game have 2 umpires, of course back then guys could cut bases, trip runners, hide balls in the OF and get away with it too. Hence why 2 guys were needed to make the game less of a farce.

traderumor
08-20-2010, 08:00 PM
Until they instituted the rule that each game have 2 umpires, of course back then guys could cut bases, trip runners, hide balls in the OF and get away with it too. Hence why 2 guys were needed to make the game less of a farce.

Brings new meaning to the hidden ball trick. Reminds me of a golf buddy who hit one in the woods, walked up in the woods, threw the ball out with his hand wedgie, then swung the club to make it look like he hit it. Of course he denied it...

_Sir_Charles_
08-20-2010, 08:03 PM
Until they instituted the rule that each game have 2 umpires, of course back then guys could cut bases, trip runners, hide balls in the OF and get away with it too. Hence why 2 guys were needed to make the game less of a farce.

Wow. Good stuff. I'd looked at stats and stuff from early baseball, but I had never heard about this with the umpires. I knew there was more cheating and dirty play and stuff...but only 1 umpire and calling balls & strikes from the infield. Thanks WoY. Learn somethin' new everyday.