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RedsRoll19
08-20-2010, 04:30 PM
http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=742915&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

WOW!!!!!

GIDP
08-20-2010, 04:33 PM
Should charge LaRussa with assault for the way he runs Molina out there so much that he only had LaRue play 16 games worth of innings behind the plate this year.

RedsRoll19
08-20-2010, 04:36 PM
LaRue's out, Cueto's in: Is that fair?
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BY ROGER HENSLEY | Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:03 pm | (22) Comments

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buy this photo Jason LaRue goes on the 60-day DL and his season is likely over after being kicked in the head by Johnny Cueto at a game in Cincinnati. Meanwhile, Cueto gets a 7-game suspension (essentially, one start). Does that seem fair? (AP Photo/Tom Uhlman)
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If justice can be attained in the whole LaRue-Cueto affair, how do you think it should come?
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* Related: Cards Talk: File charges on the LaRue assault

QUESTION: An agreement between the commissioner’s office and the Players Association stipulates that punishment for on-field incidents should be handed down within 48 hours. Given the news Thursday that catcher Jason LaRue is headed for the 60-day DL, essentially ending his season, due to being kicked in the head last week by Reds’ pitcher Johnny Cueto, two questions arise: 1) Was Cueto’s 7-game suspension nearly enough for ending another player’s season? And, 2) Should the league and the PA allow for exceptions to be made on punishment deadlines, or for those punishments to be amended, until the full extent of a player’s injury in such an incident can be determined?

RICK HUMMEL

Cueto’s suspension probably was a little light, but you may not know the full extent of LaRue’s concussion for months – or even years into his retirement – so punishment needed to be meted out when it was, and there isn’t much reason to go back into it now. The Cardinals needed a way to get Pedro Feliz on the 40-man roster and they put LaRue on the 60-day DL, not figuring he would be able to play the rest of the season but not really knowing that either. In theory, LaRue would be eligible for the postseason even though in practice he probably wouldn’t play.

But rest assured the Cardinals haven’t forgotten what happened. Not that there will be any vigilante justice the next time the teams play because the games should be too important for shenigans, but there will come a day, perhaps even next year, when someone will try to get even. Ballplayers sometimes can’t remember what pitch they hit from one day to the next but they don’t forget something like the Cueto matter.

JOE STRAUSS

Of course the punishment appears inadequate. But MLB follows precedent and that is what the violation brings. Juan Marichal got 8 games in 1965 for hitting John Roseboro over the head with a bat, but a PED user gets 50 games. Sounds out of whack. However, any attempt to “push the envelope” on on-field discipline would result in a grievance. This stuff needs to be hashed out with the Players Association. However, it has not appeared a priority in the past. The player is fined by MLB but doesn’t even lose salary during term of suspension. There does seem to be a need for more teeth. Doctoring a baseball and seriously injuring an opponent shouldn’t bring similar penalties.

DERRICK GOOLD

It would be a bad precedent for the league to go back and revise a suspension based on information or injury that developed after the ruling had been finalized. Perhaps the 48-hour window isn’t long enough, or perhaps baseball could consider injuries and not just actions when leveling punishments. Either would be fine.

What seems to be the biggest whiff here is the seven-day (read: one-start) suspension for Cueto. Yeah, yeah, I know some will throw the word used above around: precedent. MLB reportedly compared Cueto’s kicking to Chan Ho Park’s flying kick attempt back in 1999. Park received a seven-game suspension, so Cueto did, too. This a convenient use of the word precedent, and a fraudulent application of it. The events aren’t similar, not remotely enough to call the Park suspension precedent. Park was facing pitcher Tim Belcher, had just exchanged forearm blows with Belcher, and made one laughable, unsuccessful sweep with his foot as he lost his balance. Cueto? Cueto was cornered against a net and lashed out repeatedly, wildly with his cleats. He strafed players who had their backs to him. Kenny Rogers got a 20-game suspension for shoving a TV cameraman. In hindsight, he should have kicked him. Apparently, there’s precedent.

I went looking for actual precedent, not “reach” precedent and found ... not much. Izzy Alcantara once suddenly kicked a catcher in the chest after a pitch and then charged the mound in the minors. He got six games from the International League. Heck, that’s closer to Cueto than Park. Delmon Young fired a bat at an umpire after disagreeing with a call, and he got 50 games. At least that has the “weapon” element that Cueto’s cleats brings to the discussion. No, the closest I’ve found was in 2000. Detroit coach Juan Samuel was suspended 15 games for entering a brawl and wildly throwing punches. Isn’t that akin to what happened here? Substituting kicking for punching, and maybe there’s a precedent. Or maybe there was no precedent for what Cueto did. It and other actions in that scrum deserved punishments all their own.

JEFF GORDON

An easy solution: Allow the other party to appeal any punishment meted out for fights, beanballs, etc. and argue for harsher sanctions. The resulting time lapse would allow the league to gain a clearer view of the impact. If Johnny Cueto has the right to appeal his suspension, why shouldn’t Jason LaRue have the right to appeal the verdict too?

LARRY BOROWSKY (Founder of Viva El Birdos and editor of “Maple Street Press Cardinals Annual”)

Cueto clearly got off easy. I agree with the opinion (expressed by Bernie and others) that the league didn’t want to impose too harsh a sentence for fear of being perceived as hurting the Reds’ chances. I wonder if the league would have issued a stiffer penalty if the player kicked in the head had been Chris Carpenter instead of Jason LaRue.

Regarding changing the enforcement policies, some changes may be in order but there will never be a perfect system. In this case, the Cardinals will have an opportunity to get justice when the Reds visit over Labor Day weekend. Should be a lively series . . .

Reds
08-20-2010, 04:37 PM
LaRue is nothing more than a reminder of bad seasons gone by.

bshall2105
08-20-2010, 04:38 PM
Everytime somebody starts a thread about that board about 20 people come trolling.

scott91575
08-20-2010, 04:45 PM
What is funny is no one realizes that the Cards needed a spot on the 40 man, and 60 day DL'ing Larue was the easiest way to clear room. They hardly ever use their backup catcher, and this way they didn't need to expose anyone else on the 40 man to waivers.

Of course that would be logic instead of stupid, ignorant fandom.

RedsRoll19
08-20-2010, 04:49 PM
WOW


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Leroy GoCUBSGo is offline
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Post subject: Re: File charges on the LaRue assault
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:38 pm
he should be brought up on charges and deported back to Mexico where he came from. (I wish he'd take Ozzie Guillen wiht him too)

LaRue was a big piece to cardinals contending rest of year. cueto new wut he was doing. i though BIG Z had a tempur

AintlifeGrande
08-20-2010, 05:01 PM
Ah yes the pwnage continues.Had the jerks been winning you would have never heard anything else about this incident.

AintlifeGrande
08-20-2010, 05:07 PM
If Cards do get ''payback'',it may well be in vain.Hopefully by the time we face those stiffs again we will have won the division.

gmt
08-20-2010, 05:26 PM
Cueto was lucky that the suspension was imposed within 48 hours of the incident. Bob Watson even said had they known the extent of LaRue's condition, the punishment may have been different. If LaRue had been knocked unconscious and carried off of the field, I would guess a couple to few weeks may have been imposed. LaRue was of marginal importance to the Cardinals with only a role of pinch hitting in an emergency or giving Molina an occasional break. All this additional talk with LaRue's placement on the 60 day DL will only serve to create an uglier scene in St. Louis come Labor day weekend.

Hey Meat
08-20-2010, 05:29 PM
Man, they let them get away with murder on that board. If I had no life I still wouldn't go trolling over there.

scott91575
08-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Cueto was lucky that the suspension was imposed within 48 hours of the incident. Bob Watson even said had they known the extent of LaRue's condition, the punishment may have been different. If LaRue had been knocked unconscious and carried off of the field, I would guess a couple to few weeks may have been imposed. LaRue was of marginal importance to the Cardinals with only a role of pinch hitting in an emergency or giving Molina an occasional break. All this additional talk with LaRue's placement on the 60 day DL will only serve to create an uglier scene in St. Louis come Labor day weekend.

He is not lucky. They do that for a reason, and for every suspension.

If LaRue had any importance to the Cards he would not be on the 60 day DL, and it's questionable if he would have been put on the 15 day DL. Yet there is no doubt the only reason he is on the 60 day DL is the Felix deal. Amazing how they happened at the same time, isn't it?

Heck, they have 5 catchers on their 40 man. LaRue was as expendable as it gets, and that is why he is on the 60 day DL. The guy only has 63 plate appearances and is hitting below the Mendoza line. He has 5 freaking RBI. A case could be made he would have been released after the Felix trade anyway. He is 36, a free agent at the end of the year, is not playing above replacement level, and the Cards have 4 other catchers on the 40 man. Perfect guy to kick to the curb when in need of a spot on the 40 man.

Vottomatic
08-20-2010, 05:59 PM
It's all for show. Just part of the Larussa drama machine. That's all.

Tell Carpenter to keep his mouth shut and it never happens.

Stray
08-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Lol, going over there and reading some of those comments had me cracking up.
...and they wonder where their crybaby reputation comes from.

Kingspoint
08-20-2010, 06:08 PM
The whining never stops from that town.

RedsRoll19
08-20-2010, 06:11 PM
Touche

ThornWithin81
08-20-2010, 06:16 PM
We're up 3.5 games. I can't wait to hear their complaints when we're up 7+.

Nothing to see here. :)

lidspinner
08-20-2010, 06:22 PM
so if one of the cards hits our players out of retailiation, and said player is out for the season for cause of say broken wrist, then we should charge them with assault? The crime does not get any worse dependant on how injured a player is...geesh.

Cueto only got 7 games cause their is no video proof of him kicking Jason in the head....Jason could have just as easily got kicked by someone on the bottom of the pile while he was on the ground....not saying that is what happened but that is the jist of the 7 game suspension...

you cant get a speeding ticket because a cop seen you driving down the road and he "thought" you were speeding....he has to have proof, sure he could look and see that you were driving 90mph, but if he was walking out of the local 7-11 with his coffee in hand, then he cannot write you a ticket...its as simple as that. Why cardinal fans have an issue with this is beyond me.

scott91575
08-20-2010, 06:33 PM
you cant get a speeding ticket because a cop seen you driving down the road and he "thought" you were speeding.

Actually you can in Ohio. Look it up. It went to the state supreme court.

edit: here it is.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Media/ohio-cops-radar-gun-ticket-drivers/story?id=10815868

Krawhitham
08-20-2010, 07:19 PM
Ceuto gave the Cards a way out with LaRue now instead of releasing him the can DL him, he is horrible behind the plate and with a bat. They wanted to bring up Bryan Anderson but did not want to force LaRue into retirement. The were claiming he was concussed 24 hours before he saw a doctor, 1 hours after being "concussed" he was seen in the dugout looking fine and telling the Reds to suck his manhood

Pujols4MVP
08-20-2010, 07:22 PM
It's all for show. Just part of the Larussa drama machine. That's all.

Tell Carpenter to keep his mouth shut and it never happens.

So this whole thing boils down to Carp opening his mouth?

Lets recap real quick:

1) Cards make comments in reference to displeasure with the Reds.
2) Phillips expresses sentiments that probably shouldn't have been expressed publically.
3) Cards rightfully take exception to these comments.
4) BP thinks all is well the next day and trys to be friendly with Yadi.
5) Yadi does what most would do, and doesn't take that lightly.
6) Heated words are exchanged and benches clear.
7) During this, Dusty reacts to something Jose says and tells him to shut up.
8) La Russa stupidly interjects and starts yelling at dusty.
9) Carp ignorantly starts yelling at dusty.
10) Rolen stands up for both his manager, and former teamate and tries to defuse the situation, but its perceived as an aggressive act towards Carp.
11)Shoving pursues which leads to cuetos little flailing act, and LaRue getting kicked in the face and ending his season.

I know I probably left a ton out, but what i was really getting at is that this was all started by Carp opening his mouth? laughable. Honestly, this all could have been avoided by any ONE of these people taking the high road. It takes two to tango my friend.

And as far as this being a ploy by La Russa to over dramatize the situation is an incredibly stupid thought. I am sure if LaRue was feeling well enough to play, he would totally be game for being shut down for the remainder of the season. Like some have stated on here, as well as some of the writers in the article posted above, the ruling came out, and we should all just move on. And for whatever its worth, the ignorant posters over at STLtoday that stated Cueto should charged are just that, ignorant.

texasdave
08-20-2010, 07:23 PM
Can we not rehash this for the one millionth time please? People have made up their minds one way or the other and nothing is going to change them. Thank you.

lidspinner
08-20-2010, 07:33 PM
Actually you can in Ohio. Look it up. It went to the state supreme court.

edit: here it is.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Media/ohio-cops-radar-gun-ticket-drivers/story?id=10815868


come on, are ya with me or against me? :D

just kidding pal, good find...I did not know that but still good find.

Caveman Techie
08-20-2010, 07:36 PM
Posted this over on Cards talk too, but here it is. At the time of the brawl Molina was on his 21st (think that the number) straight start. That is an awful lot of starts behind the plate for a guy with a healthy backup. I've had a concussion before and believe me I would not of been sitting in the dugout laughing and joking around with the guys afterwards. I'm not saying that Larue isn't hurt, but I don't think it started with the brawl.

paintmered
08-20-2010, 07:40 PM
Can we not rehash this for the one millionth time please? People have made up their minds one way or the other and nothing is going to change them. Thank you.

Agreed. Go over there if you want to respond.