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View Full Version : Anyone catch La Russa's rant after the Cards' loss tonight?



RedsFanInBama
08-21-2010, 02:35 AM
Brandon was right.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100820&content_id=13704480&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

aubashbrother
08-21-2010, 02:36 AM
Classic

BurgervilleBuck
08-21-2010, 02:40 AM
What a sundeck.

rolenmvp
08-21-2010, 02:41 AM
he should be more worried about his team. they are lifeless right now with the exception of maybe pujols.

Jr's Boy
08-21-2010, 02:50 AM
Every time he whines he just validates everything Brandon said.And I'm sure the umpires in the future will be ready to give him those close calls based upon his words of wisdom.

texasdave
08-21-2010, 02:53 AM
Every time he whines like that he just sundecks his own team. :)

RedsFanInBama
08-21-2010, 03:04 AM
Every time he whines he just validates everything Brandon said.And I'm sure the umpires in the future will be ready to give him those close calls based upon his words of wisdom.

He doesn't care. He's Tony La Russa. Not only does he have two last names, but he invented baseball, by God. Just ask him.

rolenmvp
08-21-2010, 03:05 AM
wanna hear something funny..

cardsfan wrote:...no passion. Folks lets face it, the Reds are going to win the division and our players will be sitting on boat seats casting fishing poles come the playoffs. none, I hate the REDS, I literally hate them. I hope they fall apart by injuries time the playoffs come.

MikeThierry
08-21-2010, 03:37 AM
The link seems to be broken.

RedsFanInBama
08-21-2010, 03:42 AM
The link seems to be broken.

The link works for me still. Takes you to a story with La Russa whining.

MikeThierry
08-21-2010, 03:47 AM
Ahh, I got it now.

TLR is gone after this season if they fail to make the playoffs. A good number of people in St. Louis are tired of some of the things he does. I have been objective when it comes to LaRussa most of the season but I just think he is worn out and its showing on this club. I don't know who they will get to replace him but he is gone. Mark my words.

Redeye fly
08-21-2010, 04:06 AM
Of course Brandon was right. Everyone here who's not a Cardinals fan pretty much knows Brandon was right, even if they would have phrased it a little different.

Whether he should have said it is another thing.

Whether it actually made any difference in that series or not is another thing still.

But yep, that's Tony LaRussa at his finest, and much of the reason for the Cardinals whining probably comes from the example he sets.

Think maybe if your team had gotten a key hit or two earlier in the game you maybe wouldn't have had to wait until the 9th inning and be at the mercy of an umpire who just wants to pick on you Tony?

MikeThierry
08-21-2010, 04:10 AM
Well, the only interesting thing to watch on this Cardinals team right now is Albert going for the triple crown which is amazing considering he is having an off year. Also, him two away from 400 hrs.

Also, Adam Wainwright going for the Cy Young too.

Redeye fly
08-21-2010, 04:17 AM
Well, the only interesting thing to watch on this Cardinals team right now is Albert going for the triple crown which is amazing considering he is having an off year. Also, him two away from 400 hrs.

Also, Adam Wainwright going for the Cy Young too.

Still a ways to go, but I've gotta think Wainwright is the leader for the Cy Young. ESPN seems to think so too with their Cy Young predictor model having him at the top. Halladay is second though, and he pitched another gem tonight. Ubaldo Jimenez is down to 4th, behind Heath Bell.

CardsFanBob
08-21-2010, 04:19 AM
Still a ways to go, but I've gotta think Wainwright is the leader for the Cy Young. ESPN seems to think so too with their Cy Young predictor model having him at the top. Halladay is second though, and he pitched another gem tonight. Ubaldo Jimenez is down to 4th, behind Heath Bell.

Yup, that's about all we have going for us now. This is the worst team I've seen the Cards put together in years. Good for Cincy. There are a few of your fans I can't stand--RedBlooded, I'm looking at you. But i know you're a historically solid baseball town, and I wish you well, should you solidify the division over the next few weeks.

MikeThierry
08-21-2010, 04:23 AM
Yup, that's about all we have going for us now. This is the worst team I've seen the Cards put together in years. Good for Cincy. There are a few of your fans I can't stand--RedBlooded, I'm looking at you. But i know you're a historically solid baseball town, and I wish you well, should you solidify the division over the next few weeks.

Cards, I wouldn't even say its the worst team the Cards have put together in years. This team is heads above the team in the World Series year of 2006. I think its the most fundamentally flawed team I have seen since TLR has been managing the Cards. A big part of it has to do with youth but its still inexcusable, for example, that the Cards are only second to the Cubs in most errors at 3rd base this year. I can't even begin to count how many games the Cards lost due to poor defensive plays.

CardsFanBob
08-21-2010, 04:26 AM
Cards, I wouldn't even say its the worst team the Cards have put together in years. This team is heads above the team in the World Series year of 2006. I think its the most fundamentally flawed team I have seen since TLR has been managing the Cards. A big part of it has to do with youth but its still inexcusable, for example, that the Cards are only second to the Cubs in most errors at 3rd base this year. I can't even begin to count how many games the Cards lost due to poor defensive plays.

Very good point. But that 06 team was riddled with injuries. The first time they were healthy is when they began the playoffs, which is why they won. Rolen was back, which helped greatly.

That being said, you hit the nail on the head. This is the most fundamentally flawed team the Birds have fielded in a long time. It has the Redbird nation baffled. I mean, they've just been bad.

And you're right. 3rd base has been an absolute disaster. Lopez is NOT an everyday player. and our GM Mozeliak put too much faith Freese, who has never proved to be a player who's lasted an entire year.

I fully expect you guys to seal the deal this year; but jsut know, I'm sure we'll be back in the hunt next year. The Birds make too much money to allow this type of effort. For my own sake, I hope they blow up the middle infield and get at least one guy who can play both offensively and defensively.

Vottomatic
08-21-2010, 04:26 AM
Well, I said it early on in the season when comparing the Cards and Reds. They have 4 great players (Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, and Wainwright) and the Reds have the overall better lineup, and have better starting pitching if you factor in our #4 and #5 starters, and also the depth beyond that.

The Reds just have a better lineup overall. The Cards have the 4 of the best players in baseball though, but the rest of the team doesn't measure up.

I wondered all along if the Cards having Pujols and Holliday anchoring the batting lineup, and Carpenter and Wainwright anchoring the starting pitching, would put them ahead of the Reds. Or would the Reds having not quite as good starting pitching to match Carpenter and Wainwright, but still very good starting pitching from 1 to 5, and a pretty good lineup from 1 thru 8 be enough to overtake the Cards.

The season isn't over yet, but the answer is getting close to be decided.

And the Cards are headed in the direction of having about 3 or 4 extremely high priced players and a cheap supporting cast for the coming years.

CardsFanBob
08-21-2010, 04:32 AM
Well, I said it early on in the season when comparing the Cards and Reds. They have 4 great players (Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, and Wainwright) and the Reds have the overall better lineup, and have better starting pitching if you factor in our #4 and #5 starters, and also the depth beyond that.

The Reds just have a better lineup overall. The Cards have the 4 of the best players in baseball though, but the rest of the team doesn't measure up.

I wondered all along if the Cards having Pujols and Holliday anchoring the batting lineup, and Carpenter and Wainwright anchoring the starting pitching, would put them ahead of the Reds. Or would the Reds having not quite as good starting pitching to match Carpenter and Wainwright, but still very good starting pitching from 1 to 5, and a pretty good lineup from 1 thru 8 be enough to overtake the Cards.

The season isn't over yet, but the answer is getting close to be decided.

And the Cards are headed in the direction of having about 3 or 4 extremely high priced players and a cheap supporting cast for the coming years.

The Reds are far more consistent throughout their order. I'm just as interested as you as to how they will move forward after this monumentally disappointing year. Their young, bad infield is especially an issue. They are simply not consistent enough to play in the bigs moving forward; that's even more apparent with Freese out.

MikeThierry
08-21-2010, 04:42 AM
Well, I said it early on in the season when comparing the Cards and Reds. They have 4 great players (Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, and Wainwright) and the Reds have the overall better lineup, and have better starting pitching if you factor in our #4 and #5 starters, and also the depth beyond that.

The Reds just have a better lineup overall. The Cards have the 4 of the best players in baseball though, but the rest of the team doesn't measure up.

I wondered all along if the Cards having Pujols and Holliday anchoring the batting lineup, and Carpenter and Wainwright anchoring the starting pitching, would put them ahead of the Reds. Or would the Reds having not quite as good starting pitching to match Carpenter and Wainwright, but still very good starting pitching from 1 to 5, and a pretty good lineup from 1 thru 8 be enough to overtake the Cards.

The season isn't over yet, but the answer is getting close to be decided.

And the Cards are headed in the direction of having about 3 or 4 extremely high priced players and a cheap supporting cast for the coming years.

Interesting points. To me, it seems the Cards are built to win in the playoffs while the Reds are built to get to the playoffs. However, I would like to note that the Cards have been riddled with injuries this year, much like the Reds were last year. At the beginning of the year, I would have taken the Cards rotation simply because of Penny being the 3rd starter. Penny was dominant until he got injured hitting a grand slam. Not to mention some of the bullpen guys that have been injured along with our starting 3rd baseman.

As far as having 4 good players, I think that could be debated. Certainly I think you would have to add Molina to that list of good players. Though he is having an off offensive year, he has hit close to .300 in the last two years. I don't even have to get into his defense because that speaks for itself. Plus he is extremely durable. I think he has caught 40 more innings than the next closest player on that list. He is still a young guy as well.

I think many of the players on the Cards have potential to be good players but are still question marks because they are very young. Schumaker has hit .300 for the past couple of years and has been a good leadoff man for the Cards but he is having a down year. Brendan Ryan might be the best defensive shortstop the Cards have had since Ozzie Smith (even Ozzie himself has alluded to this) but he is lost at the plate this year. David Freese was in the running for Rookie of the Year until he got injured. I think we are still waiting for Jon Jay to regress to the means but all he still does is hit. He leads even Buster Posey in the batting average department. However I don't know how Jon Jay will do with a full year of ball under his belt. Still, he sort of actually passes the look test to me. Also, right now I don't think you could say you would take any Reds outfielder over Colby Rasmus. He has been in the league for 2 years but has tremendous upside and continues to develop. Will Garcia continue to be Garcia next year? All these are question marks but I see a lot of upside with this team. More maturity will answer these questions.

I appologize, by the way, for being long winded in this response.

757690
08-21-2010, 04:44 AM
I just can't imagine that is good for team moral. You don't want your manager making excuses for you. You want your manager believing that you are good enough to overcome bad calls and other random events that you can't control.

scott91575
08-21-2010, 06:03 AM
I just can't imagine that is good for team moral. You don't want your manager making excuses for you. You want your manager believing that you are good enough to overcome bad calls and other random events that you can't control.

I think it is frustration. La Russa felt like a genius 8 days ago. Since then they have lost 5 1/2 games in the standings, and the St. Louis media has been brutal. Yet it is still a really weak response, especially for someone that has been managing for a long time. You never fix anything by blaming the umps.

On a major side note, my uncle played for LaRussa in the White Sox organization a long, long time ago. Still hates him with a passion to this very day.

jhiller21
08-21-2010, 08:33 AM
This was posted on the MLB.com board by a cards fan :laugh:


Looks like everything Brandon said was 100 % true

TheBigLebowski
08-21-2010, 08:55 AM
I appreciate what the Cards fans are saying in this thread, but methinks their concessions are a bit premature; likewise, I think too many Reds fans are busy hanging pennants.

4.5 game lead is awesome, especially considering we grew the lead on a west coast roadie. But there's plenty of season left, including one more 3 game series in STL vs. these very same Cards who just swept us off our home field.

Being Reds fans, I know it's almost impossible not to be irrationally exuberant right now. I am merely suggesting that we wait a bit to celebrate.

TheBigLebowski
08-21-2010, 08:55 AM
dupe post

Revering4Blue
08-21-2010, 11:28 AM
I appreciate what the Cards fans are saying in this thread, but methinks their concessions are a bit premature; likewise, I think too many Reds fans are busy hanging pennants.

4.5 game lead is awesome, especially considering we grew the lead on a west coast roadie. But there's plenty of season left, including one more 3 game series in STL vs. these very same Cards who just swept us off our home field.

Being Reds fans, I know it's almost impossible not to be irrationally exuberant right now. I am merely suggesting that we wait a bit to celebrate.

Exactly

Revering4Blue
08-21-2010, 11:33 AM
The reason the Cards are floundering, IMO, is the Ludwick trade.

This was also posted on the MLB.com board by a Cards fan.

Opinions?

bagz
08-21-2010, 11:44 AM
LaRussa shouldn't be looking to scapegoat the umpire for his teams inability to play well in a game. This thing is indeed far from over and I'm sure we'll hear more complaining from him as the season comes to an end.

arkimadee
08-21-2010, 12:23 PM
here is the Cards problem right now. They have Lopez and Craig hitting before Pujlos. I mean why not hit Holliday before Albert and some more damage might be done with Matt on base.. Oh well I'm not complaining.. And the whole pitcher batting 8th thing. That has drive Cardinal fans crazy.. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is one of the sole reasons they lost that game last night..

RedCanuck
08-21-2010, 12:39 PM
.... so is TLR the Al Gore or Obama of managers??

DocRed
08-21-2010, 12:49 PM
I watched the game and Wilson did get some borderlie calls...but why is that suprising? He's a great closer and he is going to get those calls.

gedred69
08-21-2010, 01:10 PM
This was also posted on the MLB.com board by a Cards fan.

Opinions?

I agree totally with the quote. When they traded Ludwick I did a celebration dance. Takes a minimum of 3 very productive hitters/team to make the post-season, Ludwick was #3. When you can wrap a team around at least 3 guys, everybody else gets pitched to differently and thus better chances to help score runs.

lidspinner
08-21-2010, 01:37 PM
and people wonder why noone likes TLR and Carpenter....Carpenter is a product of his manager, I have to think that if Carp pitched for another team, he would not be so prickish, but TLR just oozes of being a prick and it rubs off on your players.

GIDP
08-21-2010, 01:41 PM
I feel like I'm reading a broken record.

That team seems to emotionally unstable to handle a few losses.

GIDP
08-21-2010, 01:52 PM
Jon Jay since the Ludwick trade

.288 .327 .385

and thats still with a .366 BABIP

11 strike outs 3 walks

they trusted his inflated stats way too much.

FlyerFanatic
08-21-2010, 02:39 PM
whats the reasoning behind batting your pitcher 8th again? isnt it to try to avoid having your pitcher lead off an inning or something?

RedsFanInBama
08-21-2010, 02:46 PM
I think he does it to try to get more people on base for Pujols. Hell, just bat him fourth if that's what you're going for. But he's Tony La Russa. He's smarter than everyone else.

Vottomatic
08-21-2010, 03:01 PM
It ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Vottomatic
08-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Is TLR creating an uptight clubhouse/dugout? If he's this uptight/tense.........think of how his players are? The pressure is definitely mounting.

Unlike Dusty who would say "meh, no big deal, it happens, let's move on and win one today!"

AintlifeGrande
08-21-2010, 03:30 PM
It's all about depth.Pitching and offense.Cards have the big two,I wont go as far and say Garcia is a big 3,not now at least.After that its a toss up rotation.What can you say about the back end of the Reds rotation?Solid as a rock. More talent by far on the Reds bench in Cairo,Heisey,Nix,heck even Corky Miller held his own when he was called upon.
The Randy Winn's,Pedro Feliz's,Aaron Miles's,can not provide many sparks when called upon.
I'm really amazed that their GM did not wheel and deal at the deadline,with the coin he had to throw around.He is as big at fault as the team is in my opinion.

scott91575
08-21-2010, 06:39 PM
whats the reasoning behind batting your pitcher 8th again? isnt it to try to avoid having your pitcher lead off an inning or something?

It's so he can bat Albert 3rd and outside of the first inning have 3 regular hitters in front of him the rest of the game.

It's supposed to get Albert more at bats while essentially playing cleanup for most of the game.

cw0802
08-22-2010, 07:30 PM
first, i agree with a lot of you. The Cards are flat and should the Reds get to the play offs and the Cards don't make it, i hope your boys run the table and break their foot off in A-Rod's a$$.

That being said, come on. Like no other manager has complained about poor calls? Did anyone see those calls? Geez, those calls made Jim Joyce's call look good.

With all your critizism of LaRussa...he is a Hall of Fame manager and currently is #3 on the wins list behind John McGraw and Connie Mack.

MikeThierry
08-24-2010, 12:43 AM
This is the most scizoid Cards team I have ever seen. It now looks like the Cards got their "act" together. Why the hell do they struggle against bad teams but when teams like the Giants come into town, they play like the Yankees?

Razzle
08-24-2010, 01:39 AM
With all your critizism of LaRussa...he is a Hall of Fame manager and currently is #3 on the wins list behind John McGraw and Connie Mack.

He's also #2 on the list of games managed and has had a ton of talent surrounding him. I'm a bigger proponent of Dave Duncan than I am of LaRussa.

10xWSChamps
08-24-2010, 01:44 AM
People usually either love LaRussa or they hate him, including Cardinals fans. But I don't think you can argue with his results.

MikeThierry
08-24-2010, 02:56 AM
He's also #2 on the list of games managed and has had a ton of talent surrounding him. I'm a bigger proponent of Dave Duncan than I am of LaRussa.

I've always hated this argument. There are very few teams that have won the WS without tons of talent surrounding said manager. Torre won all those championships with the Yankees. Should he be penalized for managing a team with a couple of HOF'ers on the roster?

I actually think 2006 was one of Tony's best managing jobs. The Cards had really no business being in the WS that year. Even some national reporters were sarcastically saying that the Tigers would sweep in 3. The Cards were huge underdogs in that series yet found ways to win.

757690
08-24-2010, 03:16 AM
La Russa is a first class tool, but he's a great manager. One of the best in the history of the sport. A certain Hall of Fame manager.

Hate him all you want... I know I do... but you can't argue that's he's not a great manager.

He's managed three teams over 34 years and won everywhere he went. It's no fluke.

Razzle
08-24-2010, 03:53 AM
I've always hated this argument. There are very few teams that have won the WS without tons of talent surrounding said manager. Torre won all those championships with the Yankees. Should he be penalized for managing a team with a couple of HOF'ers on the roster?

I'm not sure Torre should get a ton of credit for the Yankee dynasty, but he will. He was in the right place at the right time with Jeter/Rivera/Posada/Williams as young players and an owner that would fill in spots where needed. He still did better than most would've done there likely, however I don't think managers make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

As for LaRussa, there are things that I like and things that I hate about his managerial style, however most of the decade the Cards were winning so it wasn't as magnified. This year, however, I've noticed more odd in game decisions than what is normal from him (and that is saying something), which is partially caused by 20% of the roster being essentially wasted roster spots for most of the year.

cw0802
08-24-2010, 10:24 AM
He's also #2 on the list of games managed and has had a ton of talent surrounding him. I'm a bigger proponent of Dave Duncan than I am of LaRussa.

Duncan is the key. Who else could take Jeff Weaver and have him pitch like Koufax during the world series? I'm going to be more worried about this team when Duncan retires than i will be when La Russa retires.

jules2
08-24-2010, 11:38 AM
I've stopped listening to the TLR post-game. Better coverage elsewhere.

I don't know if it was that game the link refers to or the previous, but not sure how at the time TLR didn't see lack of offense as a problem when we had two hits in 8 innings. Nevermind usually the # left on base. I hated to lose Ludwick but there's not too many people we can or would want to trade who have enough value IMO.

This team could have done better, but we're not "out" of it so should be an interesting September. I'm not a huge Lohse fan but hey, look at last night - every blind squirrel finds a nut theory. (True, it was the Pirates but he didn't do much against the cubbies)

Magdal
08-24-2010, 04:31 PM
La Russa is a first class tool, but he's a great manager. One of the best in the history of the sport. A certain Hall of Fame manager.

Hate him all you want... I know I do... but you can't argue that's he's not a great manager.

He's managed three teams over 34 years and won everywhere he went. It's no fluke.Sir, you need to stop swilling the LaRussa Kool-Aid my friend. If you managed for 34 years you would have as many wins, and LOSSES as he. His winning % is nothing to shout about. And as has been stated, he is an ego-maniacal, senile old fool that manages games bass acwards. His use of his pen is comical, as are his 150 different lineups per season.

Pitcher batting 8th, playing Chris Duncan and Ankiel over Ludwick and then TRADING him to the best team in the West. Just laughable.

Captain13
08-24-2010, 04:37 PM
La Russa is a first class tool, but he's a great manager. One of the best in the history of the sport. A certain Hall of Fame manager.

Hate him all you want... I know I do... but you can't argue that's he's not a great manager.

He's managed three teams over 34 years and won everywhere he went. It's no fluke.

LaRussa is NOT a great manager...he led the most powerful team of the 80's to 1, count 'em...1, WS championship. I'm guessing you could have gotten more than that out of those A's. Without Dave Duncan's magic, LaRussa wouldn't be anything at all...he is an egomaniacal tool, and a LOSER.

MikeThierry
08-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Pitcher batting 8th, playing Chris Duncan and Ankiel over Ludwick and then TRADING him to the best team in the West. Just laughable.

Well, there are some stats that show batting the pitcher 8th actually slightly increased the average run production for the Cards.

Also, Ludwick was injured last year at times so of course he would play Duncan and Ankiel over an ailing Ludwick. The Ludwick trade even if you don't like it was a management decision. LaRussa didn't talk to the other GM's and get the deal done. Please at least show some objectivity.

757690
08-25-2010, 03:06 AM
LaRussa is NOT a great manager...he led the most powerful team of the 80's to 1, count 'em...1, WS championship. I'm guessing you could have gotten more than that out of those A's. Without Dave Duncan's magic, LaRussa wouldn't be anything at all...he is an egomaniacal tool, and a LOSER.


Sir, you need to stop swilling the LaRussa Kool-Aid my friend. If you managed for 34 years you would have as many wins, and LOSSES as he. His winning % is nothing to shout about. And as has been stated, he is an ego-maniacal, senile old fool that manages games bass acwards. His use of his pen is comical, as are his 150 different lineups per season.

Pitcher batting 8th, playing Chris Duncan and Ankiel over Ludwick and then TRADING him to the best team in the West. Just laughable.

La Russa W/L%: .536
Herzog W/L%: .532
Sparky W/L%: .545
Torre W/L%: .539
Cox W/L%: .556
Stengal W/L%: .508
Pinella W/L%:.517
Duroucher W/L%: .540
Leland W/L%: .496

These guys are in the Hall or should be.

Also... Of managers with at least 2000 wins, he is 8th all time in W/L%.

BTW, I need to shower after defending La Russa... twice.

Magdal
08-25-2010, 05:04 AM
Well, there are some stats that show batting the pitcher 8th actually slightly increased the average run production for the Cards.

Also, Ludwick was injured last year at times so of course he would play Duncan and Ankiel over an ailing Ludwick. The Ludwick trade even if you don't like it was a management decision. LaRussa didn't talk to the other GM's and get the deal done. Please at least show some objectivity.Objectivity??? You don't know what you are talking about. Ludwick sat in favor of others EVERY 5 days last year. Are you saying that he was hurt every 5 days all season long?

And you say that it was a management decision... based on what? You think LaRussa has no input on player aquisition? You don't think he has more juice than that flakey GM?

I don't know why I even responded to your silly statements, kid. Go sell your BS at Cards Talk where you belong.

cw0802
08-25-2010, 10:20 AM
Objectivity??? You don't know what you are talking about. Ludwick sat in favor of others EVERY 5 days last year. Are you saying that he was hurt every 5 days all season long?

And you say that it was a management decision... based on what? You think LaRussa has no input on player aquisition? You don't think he has more juice than that flakey GM?

I don't know why I even responded to your silly statements, kid. Go sell your BS at Cards Talk where you belong.

LaRussa, much like other managers, plays the numbers. If Ludwick doesn't hit right handed pitchers very well, and Duncan or Ankiel had more success, sure he would be sat in favor of the lefty/righty matchup.

That being said, I was in the majority of people who much rather have Ludwick play every day over Ankiel and Duncan...hell i'd rather have a wet bag of crap play over Chris Duncan. That guy was horrible, and i think the only reason he made it that long in the majors was due to his being a Cardinal. Uncle Tony protected him. Bad.

Now, if you look at the stats, you can't deny that he's a great manager. There have been and forever will be hundreds of mangers who won't even sniff 2000 wins. Hell, your beloved Dusty Baker, with as great as many may seem to think he is, is 1300 wins behind LaRussa. Let's also not mention that LaRussa hasn't been charged with ruining many pitchers careers by over using them...much like Baker.

Let's go alittle deeper, LaRussa has managed 3 teams, the White Sox, A's and Cardinals. He has 12 division titles (1 with the Sox, 4 with the A's and 7 with the Cardinals), 5 league championships (3 with the A's and 2 with the Cardinals) and two World Series titles (1 with the A's and 1 with the Cardinals). Since coming to the Cardinals, he has lead the team to the post season 8 times, winning the division (a weak division)7 times.

Regardless of how you feel about him, you can't argue with the succcess.

Vottomatic
08-25-2010, 04:30 PM
Larussa is a good manager, not great, who has had tons of talent everywhere he goes.

Not every coach with a great winning percentage is a great coach. Perfect example, John Calipari. Calipari is a terrible coach in my opinion. Great recruiter and rumored slimeball and cheater. But I digress.

A great coach to me is someone given average talent and getting them to overachieve. And you do see that from time to time.

I'm not stupid enough to say Larussa is a bad manager, but I do not think he is a great one. I'm 45 years old and remember major league baseball vividly since the early 70's. Larussa is one of those managers I've questioned repeatedly time and time again.

Whitey Herzog, on the other hand, I rarely questioned. I thought he was a great manager and got his players to overachieve, even though he did have some talent.

MikeThierry
08-25-2010, 09:54 PM
Objectivity??? You don't know what you are talking about. Ludwick sat in favor of others EVERY 5 days last year. Are you saying that he was hurt every 5 days all season long?

And you say that it was a management decision... based on what? You think LaRussa has no input on player aquisition? You don't think he has more juice than that flakey GM?

I don't know why I even responded to your silly statements, kid. Go sell your BS at Cards Talk where you belong.

Of course I know what I'm talking about. Do you even look at stats? Let me give you the total Plate Appearances for a couple of players since 2008 for the Cardinals. Albert Pujols- 1884, Yadi- 1460, Skip Schumaker-1528, Ryan Ludwick-1560. The fact is that even with Ludwick being traded before the trade deadline this year, he still is second only to Pujols in total Plate Appearances since 2008 for the Cardinals core players. In fact, if you look at the 2009 season, Only Pujols, Molina, Skip, and Yadi had more PA than Ludwick. Of course this was affected due to him being on the DL last year at one point in the season. The opinion of "Tony chose to play other players over Ludwick" is sort of one of those false arguments that has little to no basis behind it.

Now I don't know why you are so angry at my opinion when I wasn't even flaming you or anyone on this board. I find it ironic that you would call me a kid than flame me like a child over a simple opinion.

Brisco
08-25-2010, 10:12 PM
For over thirty years La Russa has held a position as a manager in major league baseball. That stat alone means he is one of the best ever. The people who get paid the big bucks to pick, hire and fire managers have let him keep one of the most difficult jobs in the world to hold onto for over three decades. If these GMs are smart enough baseball minds to build a roster full of talent, I think they are also smarter than us fans (who only see a small portion of the managerial picture) when it comes to picking who should run their teams.

scott91575
08-25-2010, 10:29 PM
For over thirty years La Russa has held a position as a manager in major league baseball. That stat alone means he is one of the best ever. The people who get paid the big bucks to pick, hire and fire managers have let him keep one of the most difficult jobs in the world to hold onto for over three decades. If these GMs are smart enough baseball minds to build a roster full of talent, I think they are also smarter than us fans (who only see a small portion of the managerial picture) when it comes to picking who should run their teams.

He has incriminating photos of the owners.

Anyone know a way of killing a thread? Oh I know.

I would like to talk to you guys about Jesus.

Vottomatic
08-25-2010, 10:31 PM
For over thirty years La Russa has held a position as a manager in major league baseball. That stat alone means he is one of the best ever. The people who get paid the big bucks to pick, hire and fire managers have let him keep one of the most difficult jobs in the world to hold onto for over three decades. If these GMs are smart enough baseball minds to build a roster full of talent, I think they are also smarter than us fans (who only see a small portion of the managerial picture) when it comes to picking who should run their teams.

GM's get fired all the time because they suck at decision-making.

Most likely, most of the GM's that ever hired Larussa have been fired soon after. Look at Jocketty? :D

MikeThierry
08-25-2010, 10:43 PM
I wouldn't say Jocketty was fired soon after LaRussa was hired. They had a nice run for pretty much a decade and they are still good friends. That decision was more based on the changing philosophy of the minor league system more than anything LaRussa did.

Vottomatic
08-26-2010, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't say Jocketty was fired soon after LaRussa was hired. They had a nice run for pretty much a decade and they are still good friends. That decision was more based on the changing philosophy of the minor league system more than anything LaRussa did.

109 posts from a Cards fan on a Reds message board.

I guess St. Louis is pretty lame.

MikeThierry
08-27-2010, 03:48 AM
What does checking a message board after a long day of work and school have to do with a city being lame? Maybe I like the baseball chat here.

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 04:12 AM
What does checking a message board after a long day of work and school have to do with a city being lame? Maybe I like the baseball chat here.

Yeah, we know we have one of the best, if not THE BEST, message boards in mlb.

St. Louis is just a lame town anyway. I coulda gone to college there. I got a scholarship to Washington University. My brother graduated from there.

He always said he really didn't like St. Louis much. Said it was a pretty lame town.

And having to go search for an opponents message board to post on because your own team has a lame one..........well, that pretty much says it all.

757690
08-27-2010, 07:04 AM
I just want to be on the record that I like St. Louis. It's a very nice city. Not as awesome as Cincinnati and the entire Cincinnati Tri-State area, but it is a very nice city.

I also am glad that there are a bunch of St. Louis fans on Redszone. It represents one thing that I love about baseball, that it brings millions of people together to argue, discuss and just have fun around the greatest sport ever.

Cub fans on the other hand... ;)

lidspinner
08-27-2010, 08:52 AM
keep on keeping on Mike.....I like having ya here....but you will get "nookied" every now and then....just as we would if we hung out at your board.

bounty37h
08-27-2010, 11:18 AM
Haha, think you mean "noogied", "nookied" is an entirely different concept :)

MikeThierry
08-27-2010, 11:27 AM
Well I lived in San Fransisco and New York state. I have to say that living in St. Louis I have had my most favorable experiences with this city.

Pony Boy
08-27-2010, 11:31 AM
Yeah, we know we have one of the best, if not THE BEST, message boards in mlb.

St. Louis is just a lame town anyway. I coulda gone to college there. I got a scholarship to Washington University. My brother graduated from there.

He always said he really didn't like St. Louis much. Said it was a pretty lame town.

And having to go search for an opponents message board to post on because your own team has a lame one..........well, that pretty much says it all.

I went to Wash U. for law school. I liked living in St. Louis. Not the greatest city I have ever lived in, but not a bad place to spend 3 years. Bar scene is pretty good. Some beautiful old neighborhoods and very good food. The downtown sucks and the weather is not to my liking. But overall I give it a thumbs up.

MikeThierry
08-27-2010, 11:35 AM
Yeah, the downtown does suck but once you get into the county and the other surrounding areas, there is a lot to do.

I think the most surprising city I have ever been to was Milwaukee. You hear Milwaukee and you think fat women and beer. There is an awesome bar scene there and it has a feel of a college town almost. The downtown is great and the waterfront is amazing.

The worst city I have ever been to is Buffalo. It might be the dirtiest place I have ever seen.

Pony Boy
08-27-2010, 11:37 AM
The Central West End area (where I lived), and the U City area make up for the bad downtown.

MikeThierry
08-27-2010, 11:42 AM
True and the Soulard area during Mardi Gras is quasi epic.