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Reds
08-21-2010, 06:02 PM
Who ya got as of today?

GIDP
08-21-2010, 06:05 PM
Ron "cocaine" washington

Reds
08-21-2010, 06:07 PM
I threw Francona in there as an AL choice because I felt like he deserved mention. I also really think Cito Gaston has done a tremendous job in the AL.

knoonan991
08-21-2010, 06:08 PM
Dusty, while Bud Black is a very close second.

Perhaps I'm a little biased since he is the manager of the team I get to watch every night, but the turnaround that the Reds have had this year with a very similar roster to that of last year's is truly remarkable IMO. I mean the biggest offseason aqquistion was Jonny Gomes. :eek:

scott91575
08-21-2010, 06:21 PM
Dusty, while Bud Black is a very close second.

Perhaps I'm a little biased since he is the manager of the team I get to watch every night, but the turnaround that the Reds have had this year with a very similar roster to that of last year's is truly remarkable IMO. I mean the biggest offseason aqquistion was Jonny Gomes. :eek:

The Padres were worse last year than the Reds and right now have a better record than the Reds. They did get John Garland, but shipped out Jake Peavy last year. Outside of that the big acquisitions were Jerry Hairston and Yorvit Torrealba. No one thought the Pads would do anything, yet many people thought the Reds could contend.

At this point Bud Black is the leader, and if it was voted on today I have no doubt he would win it.

ThornWithin81
08-21-2010, 06:53 PM
I went with Baker out of simple bias. Black probably deserves it more.

They are the only two legitimate choices IMO.

Reds
08-21-2010, 07:17 PM
I went with Baker out of simple bias. Black probably deserves it more.

They are the only two legitimate choices IMO.

I tend to agree for the NL. Cox is just the sentimental choice, retirement and all. Heck, today the Cubs had a sign in right field thanking Bobby for his 29 seasons.

Defacto
08-21-2010, 07:29 PM
NL Manager of the Year: Bud Black. No one expected San Diego to be leading the West.

AL Manager of the Year: Cito Gaston or Ron Washington. The Blue Jays have competed this year, when no one thought they would and most people expected the Rangers to be good, but not this good.

bshall2105
08-21-2010, 07:35 PM
It's Bud Black and he should be leading by a lot more. The Reds actually had expectations coming into the year. The only thing the Padres were thinking about was who they were going to get for Adrain Gonzales.

knoonan991
08-21-2010, 07:50 PM
The Padres were worse last year than the Reds and right now have a better record than the Reds. They did get John Garland, but shipped out Jake Peavy last year. Outside of that the big acquisitions were Jerry Hairston and Yorvit Torrealba. No one thought the Pads would do anything, yet many people thought the Reds could contend.

At this point Bud Black is the leader, and if it was voted on today I have no doubt he would win it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that my answer was slightly homer biased. :D

Looking at the race objectively, unless the Padres collapse, Black deserves it for sure.

texasdave
08-21-2010, 07:52 PM
I think in the American League you could give it to Ron Gardenhire every year and not be too far off.

Defacto
08-21-2010, 08:30 PM
The Padres were worse last year than the Reds and right now have a better record than the Reds. They did get John Garland, but shipped out Jake Peavy last year. Outside of that the big acquisitions were Jerry Hairston and Yorvit Torrealba. No one thought the Pads would do anything, yet many people thought the Reds could contend.

At this point Bud Black is the leader, and if it was voted on today I have no doubt he would win it.

If you include in season acquisitions, the Padres got Ludwick.

jhc2010
08-21-2010, 08:36 PM
Would voters give it to Bobby Cox since it's his final season?

Defacto
08-21-2010, 08:39 PM
Would voters give it to Bobby Cox since it's his final season?

Probably not, the Braves were expected to compete this year.

Redeye fly
08-21-2010, 09:29 PM
Screw it, it's a homer vote and it's kind of a surprising one since I wasn't overly thrilled when he was hired and still don't like everything he does... but I'm voting Dusty.

I completely understand the Bud Black votes for the reasons mentioned. But I'm not sure how much he has to do with their success. It could be he has a great deal to do with it. But he also has the luxury of what I'd have to imagine is the best bullpen in baseball, and also good starting pitching (particularly Latos and Garland) and getting to do it mostly in pitcher's parks.

Then again, he might be doing something, because as far as their lineup goes, it really is pretty much Adrian Gonzalez and a bunch of nobodies. Gonzalez was OPS'ing at .903, and the next highest OPS was actually our friend Chris Denorfia at .831. Of course, guys like Tejeda and Ludwick will and do help, but they obviously were on other teams for most of the year.

I'm just not privy to what Bud Black does or doesn't do for San Diego. I have some idea of what Dusty does for Cincinnati, although I think a guy like Scott Rolen does a lot of the same kind of thing.

Defacto
08-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Screw it, it's a homer vote and it's kind of a surprising one since I wasn't overly thrilled when he was hired and still don't like everything he does... but I'm voting Dusty.

I completely understand the Bud Black votes for the reasons mentioned. But I'm not sure how much he has to do with their success. It could be he has a great deal to do with it. But he also has the luxury of what I'd have to imagine is the best bullpen in baseball, and also good starting pitching (particularly Latos and Garland) and getting to do it mostly in pitcher's parks.

Then again, he might be doing something, because as far as their lineup goes, it really is pretty much Adrian Gonzalez and a bunch of nobodies. Gonzalez was OPS'ing at .903, and the next highest OPS was actually our friend Chris Denorfia at .831. Of course, guys like Tejeda and Ludwick will and do help, but they obviously were on other teams for most of the year.

I'm just not privy to what Bud Black does or doesn't do for San Diego. I have some idea of what Dusty does for Cincinnati, although I think a guy like Scott Rolen does a lot of the same kind of thing.

Look at where the Reds were last year and look at the Padres. The Padres had the same players as last year(except Garland, Ludwick, Tejada, Jerry Hairston Jr.)

Redeye fly
08-21-2010, 09:55 PM
The Padres were worse last year than the Reds and right now have a better record than the Reds. They did get John Garland, but shipped out Jake Peavy last year. Outside of that the big acquisitions were Jerry Hairston and Yorvit Torrealba. No one thought the Pads would do anything, yet many people thought the Reds could contend.

At this point Bud Black is the leader, and if it was voted on today I have no doubt he would win it.

They really weren't that much worse than the Reds last year. The Reds won 78 games, the Padres won 75. Of course, you can certainly argue that without all the injuries and the issue Joey Votto had, that the Reds would have won more than 78 games and even had a winning season last year.

The big acquisition the Reds made was Orlando Cabrera, and he's taken his share of criticism on this board, as he's had one of his worst years offensively.

I don't think even those who thought the Reds could contend expected them to be 20 games over .500 and leading the division by nearly 5 games in late August. Perhaps some did, but I would imagine most did not.

That said, I understand the Bud Black support. I will say the Padres haven't been down as long as the Reds. They were very bad 2 years ago when they went 63-99, but prior to that had 4 winning seasons in a row, and won 89 games in 2007 with not a dissimilar makeup to their team. The team in 07 had more sock with guys like Mike Cameron, Khalil Greene (he hit 27 homers that year) and Kevin Kouzmanoff than this year's bunch. I'd say the pitching is a bit better in 2010 than it was in 07, top to bottom.

Redeye fly
08-21-2010, 10:21 PM
Look at where the Reds were last year and look at the Padres. The Padres had the same players as last year(except Garland, Ludwick, Tejada, Jerry Hairston Jr.)

And again, how much of that is due to Bud Black, and how much of it is due to players maturing and getting better? I really don't know is all I'm saying. And, as I said in my latest post before this one, the Padres won 3 fewer games than the Reds last year. It's not as if they were a 60 win team a year ago, or had 15 fewer wins than the Reds.

I'm just saying I have no idea what Bud Black does for the San Diego Padres. I wouldn't say it's the same team either, as last year Kevin Correria lead the pitching staff in starts, with 33. After that you had Chad Gaudin (4-10,5.13), Josh Geer (1-7, 5.96), Chris Young, who would be injured and not really himself with an ERA over 5.00, Tim Stauffer, who actually pitched decently but is hardly a guy who comes to mind when you think of good starters in the National League, and Jake Peavy, who of course they traded.

Now what they had on the horizon was Mat Latos, who's taken a HUGE leap forward, Wade LeBlanc, who's pitched decently last year and this year, Clayton Richard, who came to them in the Peavy deal, and Garland, who's pitched very well for them. Their pitching staff is almost completely different from what it was last year, at least to start the year. And it's been basically all about pitching for San Diego.

The Reds have kind of had the same good fortune. Last year they had to rely on guys like Micah Owings, a less than effective Homer Bailey early in the year, a less than effective Aaron Harang, and Justin Lehr, and even Kip Wells later on. This year Cueto has taken another step forward, Arroyo has pitched very well, Leake was terrific early on, Wood has been great, and guys who have filled in or returned from injury (Lecure,Maloney,Bailey, Volquez) have all had their moments.

The Reds have gone from an organization that has known nothing but losing (although they've had moments of being an almost .500 team, 80-82 just a few years ago) the last 9 years to a team 20 games above .500. I can admit to being homerish, but that still counts for something for me. I don't think it's just Dusty, but I think he does have a good bit to do with it.

scott91575
08-22-2010, 01:13 AM
They really weren't that much worse than the Reds last year. The Reds won 78 games, the Padres won 75.

Check out run differential. The Padres were worse by 81 runs last year. Now they are better by 20 (probably more after today).

That is over 100 run turnaround more than the Reds.

mu4103
08-22-2010, 01:41 AM
I think it says a lot about a manager when his own fans don't vote for him despite the team being in first place. The team is also playing above everyone's expectations. I think it is a good thing.

New York Red
08-22-2010, 01:08 PM
Would voters give it to Bobby Cox since it's his final season?
Probably get some sympathy votes, but I'm guessing Bud Black will win in a landslide.

10xWSChamps
08-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Manager of the year = team that has overachieved the most = San Diego Padres (Bud Black)

10xWSChamps
08-22-2010, 03:24 PM
And again, how much of that is due to Bud Black, and how much of it is due to players maturing and getting better?

How would you quantify that for any manager/team? As I said above, they issue it to the team who is the biggest surprise and unless the Padres really tank and miss the playoffs that will be San Deigo.

They deserve it even more when you consider they have the second lowest payroll in baseball, 37m! Even the Rays have a payroll of almost twice that amount.

Kingspoint
08-22-2010, 07:20 PM
No-brainer.

It's Bud Black.

Redeye fly
08-22-2010, 07:31 PM
How would you quantify that for any manager/team? As I said above, they issue it to the team who is the biggest surprise and unless the Padres really tank and miss the playoffs that will be San Deigo.

They deserve it even more when you consider they have the second lowest payroll in baseball, 37m! Even the Rays have a payroll of almost twice that amount.

I don't know that you can quantify it. I'm not voting for the award officially, none of us are. People close to San Diego know what Bud Black does or doesn't do, people close to Cincinnati have some idea of what Dusty does.

improbus
08-22-2010, 07:47 PM
I voted for Black, but Dusty is a very close second. Black is ahead of more quality teams (Dodgers, Giants, Rockies), but the Reds are leading a team that is better than all three of them (Cardinals). But, the Reds have the luxury of playing the Pirates, Cubs, Astros, and Brewers around 60+ times this year. The West has more depth, so I will go with Black.

But, I think we tend to forget two things with Dusty.
1) He got the CHICAGO CUBS within a few outs of the world series. Think about that one for a while.
2) He got the SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS within a few outs of winning the World Series.

Those two franchises haven't won a world series in around 150 years combined. That's a pretty solid resume.

BAKER12
08-22-2010, 11:31 PM
I think Bobby Cox will get the award, for obvious reasons. The guys is a legend, players and baseball people love him.

Dusty in my opinion has really done some excellent mixing and matching and keeping the guys alive when a couple of times (Swept by Seattle) and the three game debacle versus St Louise, most teams would have packed it in.

When your a players manager you often do not get credit for success (which Dusty openly states it's a players game) and take the bullets when things go sour.

I actually liked the Padres (love the arms and pen) before the season and (call me nuts) do not think they are playing over their heads as much as everyone thinks.

Redeye fly
08-23-2010, 08:07 AM
I think Bobby Cox will get the award, for obvious reasons. The guys is a legend, players and baseball people love him.

Dusty in my opinion has really done some excellent mixing and matching and keeping the guys alive when a couple of times (Swept by Seattle) and the three game debacle versus St Louise, most teams would have packed it in.

When your a players manager you often do not get credit for success (which Dusty openly states it's a players game) and take the bullets when things go sour.

I actually liked the Padres (love the arms and pen) before the season and (call me nuts) do not think they are playing over their heads as much as everyone thinks.


I don't think you're that nuts. I understand everyone saying Bud Black and wouldn't be surprised to see him win. But again, with everyone saying it's the same team as last year, it's not. Or at least, it's not the team they started with last year.

Last year they had a collection of pitchers in which the one with the lowest ERA was 5.13 make 65 starts for them. That means 40% of the time they had a starting pitcher take the mound that had a pretty good likelihood of putting an offensively challenged club at a pretty large disadvantage.

You know how many of those pitchers, it was 7 pitchers total last year, and do you know how many of them have started a game for San Diego in 2010? 1... 1 of those pitchers from last year with an ERA of 5.13 or higher has made a start for the Padres in 2010, and it was 1 start total. That was Chris Young, who's had injury problems and actually used to be pretty good when healthy.

You know how many starts have been made by pitchers with an ERA over 5.00 by San Diego starters this year? How about none. Now Correia is close, he's at 4.82. He may see his ERA slide over 5.00 for the year if he has some bad starts in September. But the point is, the pitching has been a lot better. They're not giving starts to Chad Gaudin, Josh Geer, Josh Banks, or an injured and less than his usual self Chris Young. The return, or part of the return for Jake Peavy has done well, Garland has done well, and Latos and Leblanc have done well.

Someone mentioned run differential, but even looking at that, you could almost argue Black did a better job last year, because their Pythagorean record figured up to 67-95 last year, and they won 75 games. This year they're actually 2 wins shy of their Pythagorean.

Dusty and the Reds finished a couple of wins ahead of Pythagorean last year, and basically are right where they should be this year.

Reds
11-17-2010, 09:59 PM
This poll was even closer than the voting!

Girevik
11-18-2010, 08:11 AM
There. I voted for Dusty to give him the win here. Who's gonna call him and let him know where to pick up the trophy?