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View Full Version : Pirates are doing fine, financially



UKFlounder
08-23-2010, 08:43 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947


Don't feel too sorry for the cellar-dwelling Pittsburgh Pirates. Losing has been profitable.

The Pirates made nearly $29.4 million in 2007 and 2008, according to team financial documents, years that were part of a streak of futility that has now reached 18 straight losing seasons. The team's ownership also paid its partners $20.4 million in 2008.

Redlegs
08-23-2010, 09:17 AM
That's unfortunate for the fans of Pittsburgh. They used to be such a proud group. I remember how tough a three game series at Three Rivers used to be.

This is where the business aspect of the game comes in. MLB should do everything in their power to ensure the Pirates are making an effort to win. As long as the moneys are rolling in, nothing will be done. This is why the NFL has taken over as America's favorite game, IMO. Every fan needs to go into spring training with the hope of this being there team's year.

UKFlounder
08-23-2010, 09:30 AM
But MLB says the Pirates are handling their finances within the rules, so MLB is basically approving of how they spend their money. Maybe they are actually spending it on development (the article said they spend about the same as others in that area, but if they are getting so much revenue sharing and spending so much on payroll, shouldn't their expenditures on development be HIGHER than most teams?), but it's tough to see that.

Roy Tucker
08-23-2010, 09:49 AM
Reading the ESPN article reminded me of this SI article from a few weeks back...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1171810/2/index.htm

The conversation with Bob Nutting towards the end doesn't quite jive with the published numbers.

I'm glad I'm not a Pirates fan.

vaticanplum
08-23-2010, 09:52 AM
I'm glad I'm not a Pirates fan.

I feel bad for Pirates fans a lot of the time but then I remember that most of them support the Steelers. That quashes my sympathies pretty quickly.

RichRed
08-23-2010, 01:11 PM
I feel bad for Pirates fans a lot of the time but then I remember that most of them support the Steelers. That quashes my sympathies pretty quickly.

Very good point. I'll have to remember that.

Roy Tucker
08-23-2010, 01:30 PM
I feel bad for Pirates fans a lot of the time but then I remember that most of them support the Steelers. That quashes my sympathies pretty quickly.

That is a very true statement. But even when the Pirates were good, the Pirate fan was a far different animal than a Steeler fan.

It's like I used to feel a little sorry for Cubs fans. After all, 1908 is a long time ago. But then when they experienced some success during the 2000's and your average Cub fan went from pathetic to obnoxious, any sympathies I had for them rapidly dissapated and I don't anticipate them *ever* coming back.

oneupper
08-23-2010, 02:34 PM
I become a Pirates fan, a Cubs fan, a Brewers fan, etc...every time those teams play the Cardinals.

Can't begin to say how much I have appreciated the wins the Cubs and Brewers managed last week.

Thanks, guys! :thumbup:

OesterPoster
08-23-2010, 03:11 PM
The Pirates did spend money on the draft this year, going 180% over slot to sign 6 of their top 10 picks.

The problem to me is that they only signed 6 picks out of the top 10. Betting on those 6 guys seems risky.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2935

traderumor
08-23-2010, 03:38 PM
That is a very true statement. But even when the Pirates were good, the Pirate fan was a far different animal than a Steeler fan.
It's like I used to feel a little sorry for Cubs fans. After all, 1908 is a long time ago. But then when they experienced some success during the 2000's and your average Cub fan went from pathetic to obnoxious, any sympathies I had for them rapidly dissapated and I don't anticipate them *ever* coming back.Such as they didn't show up even when the team was good. I still recall the significant amount of empty seats in the 1990 NLCS.

15fan
08-23-2010, 03:53 PM
This is where the business aspect of the game comes in. MLB should do everything in their power to ensure the Pirates are making an effort to win. As long as the moneys are rolling in, nothing will be done. This is why the NFL has taken over as America's favorite game, IMO. Every fan needs to go into spring training with the hope of this being there team's year.

Good for the Pirates owners. They bought the team, so they should run it as they see fit.

Bad for the Pirates fans. All 3 of them.

And good for Reds fans, too. As one of the teams in the only 6 team division in MLB, the fact that one franchise has 0 interest in competing increases the odds that the Reds can get to the post-season in any given season.

This is nothing new, and nothing unique to baseball. Regardless of the financial structures in place in a league, there are always going to be hapless franchises like the Clippers, Warriors, Pirates and Browns. Teams that even when they try, always manage to get it wrong.

KronoRed
08-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Eh this doesn't bother me, I wish during the lost decade the Reds would have avoided the Eril Milton type signings and pocketed the cash instead, teams record certainly wouldn't have been that diffrent.

I do like the Pirates, they and the Reds have quite a similar history and they do have by far the best of the new parks in baseball.

Rojo
08-23-2010, 04:13 PM
Good for the Pirates owners. They bought the team, so they should run it as they see fit.

Bad for the Pirates fans. All 3 of them.

And maybe not so good for Pittsburgh taxpayers.

UKFlounder
08-23-2010, 04:57 PM
Or for MLB who gave them revenue sharing monies that obviously have not worked for their competitiveness. The Pirate owners can spend their money how they wish, but can they spend other teams' money how they wish? MLB has approved their plan, so I guess so. And maybe in a few years it will prove to have been a good plan, but I guess there is a bit more waiting to do


And maybe not so good for Pittsburgh taxpayers.

RedsBaron
08-23-2010, 05:40 PM
Such as they didn't show up even when the team was good. I still recall the significant amount of empty seats in the 1990 NLCS.

IIRC correctly there were empty seats at Three Rivers way back in 1970 when the Reds and Pirates met in the NLCS.

traderumor
08-23-2010, 07:29 PM
IIRC correctly there were empty seats at Three Rivers way back in 1970 when the Reds and Pirates met in the NLCS.

Just looked this up
Game 1 and 2 at Three Rivers, 33,088 and 39,317, respectively. Capacity was over 47,000 for baseball.

But before we pile on, the Reds clinched Game 3 at Riverfront to the tune of 40,538 to see that Titanic struggle, which was about 12,000 empty seats.

macro
08-23-2010, 07:37 PM
This story is old, but may fit this discussion. Apparently PNC Park is threatening to leave Pittsburgh...


"I love the city of Pittsburgh, but the Pirates are an old, dilapidated club built from other teams' spare parts, and its very foundation is rotting away," the stadium said to reporters assembled in its press box. "I had every intention to stay here for the duration of my career as a ballpark, but given that I haven't seen any realistic long-term plans for improving my resident team's ramshackle condition, I would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about taking my services elsewhere."

Full article: http://www.theonion.com/articles/pnc-park-threatens-to-leave-pittsburgh-unless-bett,2003/

Big Klu
08-23-2010, 08:13 PM
This story is old, but may fit this discussion. Apparently PNC Park is threatening to leave Pittsburgh...



Full article: http://www.theonion.com/articles/pnc-park-threatens-to-leave-pittsburgh-unless-bett,2003/

I haven't clicked that article, but if memory serves me correctly, the Mets were very interested in acquiring PNC's services. (Of course, this was before they built Citi Field.) :D

KronoRed
08-23-2010, 09:41 PM
If PNC is on the market the Reds have to make an offer, perhaps try and trade GABP to Oakland.

TeamBoone
08-23-2010, 10:08 PM
Too bad they can't beat the Cardinals.

KronoRed
08-24-2010, 03:27 AM
You can spend a few hours reading the Pirates docs and other teams as well here
http://deadspin.com/5615096/mlb-confidential-the-financial-documents-baseball-doesnt-want-you-to-see-part-1

I love that the Rays made LESS money when they went to the world series then when they lost 96 games.

bucksfan2
08-24-2010, 08:34 AM
I head an interview with a front office exec for the Marlins a few months ago. It was more in talking about how the economy turned south and teams had to reign in their spending. The point was had the Marlins freely spent money that off season they probably would have signed Dontrell Willis to a long term extension. I guess my point is you have to be careful when you mandate or dictate that another organization spends money. Its one thing if you go out and spend $.5B in one off season buying the top notch FA on the market. Its another thing if you go out and spend 30% of your payroll on a Meche, Milton, or Morris type.

FWIW I think the Pirates have somewhat of a "plan" but I don't know how well it will work. For the ladder part of a decade they have been trading their prospects whenever they got expensive. Unfortunately they have whiffed on most, if not all trades they have made. Its one thing to sign, develop, and then in turn trade a player when he gets expensive. But you need to get value out of him.

jojo
08-24-2010, 08:41 AM
I head an interview with a front office exec for the Marlins a few months ago. It was more in talking about how the economy turned south and teams had to reign in their spending. The point was had the Marlins freely spent money that off season they probably would have signed Dontrell Willis to a long term extension. I guess my point is you have to be careful when you mandate or dictate that another organization spends money. Its one thing if you go out and spend $.5B in one off season buying the top notch FA on the market. Its another thing if you go out and spend 30% of your payroll on a Meche, Milton, or Morris type.

FWIW I think the Pirates have somewhat of a "plan" but I don't know how well it will work. For the ladder part of a decade they have been trading their prospects whenever they got expensive. Unfortunately they have whiffed on most, if not all trades they have made. Its one thing to sign, develop, and then in turn trade a player when he gets expensive. But you need to get value out of him.

The Pirates current ownership is building an organization from the ground up. It may have a rich history but it was a crater when the last turnover happened.

Expecting the Pirates to dump a ton of cash into their 25 man roster probably isn't acting in the organization's best interests.

Blimpie
08-24-2010, 09:30 AM
Such as they didn't show up even when the team was good. I still recall the significant amount of empty seats in the 1990 NLCS.I am testing my memory here, but I seem to remember that one of those NLCS games actually started during the afternoon on a weekday?

Zane Smith was the Pirates pitcher that day IIRC. I remember sneaking to the breakroom at work to watch portions of the game.

traderumor
08-24-2010, 10:11 AM
The Pirates current ownership is building an organization from the ground up. It may have a rich history but it was a crater when the last turnover happened.

Expecting the Pirates to dump a ton of cash into their 25 man roster probably isn't acting in the organization's best interests.Taking significant distributions from the profits doesn't smell like an ownership group that is acting in anyone's best interest but their own. I'm a contrarian by nature, but making any apology for that franchise is difficult to impossible, whether its the Pirates or the "Pirates."

traderumor
08-24-2010, 10:12 AM
I am testing my memory here, but I seem to remember that one of those NLCS games actually started during the afternoon on a weekday?

Zane Smith was the Pirates pitcher that day IIRC. I remember sneaking to the breakroom at work to watch portions of the game.Yep, remember getting home from a college class to see Mariano Duncan circle the bases and the Reds win the game in a blowout at Three Rivers.