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View Full Version : 3 RBI in the last 28 games???



Redsnake
08-23-2010, 12:14 PM
How can Gomes continue to be put in the 4, 5, 6 spot in the line up, let alone be starting at all.

New York Red
08-23-2010, 12:23 PM
How can Gomes continue to be put in the 4, 5, 6 spot in the line up, let alone be starting at all.
I'm still shocked that Dusty allowed Gomes to bat late in yesterday's game, and then immediately replaced him for defensive purposes. If a guy is struggling as badly as Gomes has been, why give him an extra AB in a clutch situation, when you already know you're pulling him the same inning? Crazy. Gomes played a big part in us being atop our division at the break, but he's been really bad since. Can't understand Dusty's thinking here at all.

scott91575
08-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm still shocked that Dusty allowed Gomes to bat late in yesterday's game, and then immediately replaced him for defensive purposes. If a guy is struggling as badly as Gomes has been, why give him an extra AB in a clutch situation, when you already know you're pulling him the same inning? Crazy. Gomes played a big part in us being atop our division at the break, but he's been really bad since. Can't understand Dusty's thinking here at all.

He did a double switch. If he was replaced for that at bat, then you would need to use a PH in the pitcher's spot. Instead he got the at bat, then the double switch, and the the pitcher's spot is moved further back. The order did get back to Gomes's spot and a PH was eventually needed, but only becuase 7 batters went to the plate in the 9th.

texasdave
08-23-2010, 12:32 PM
Dusty loves him some needless double switching.

Griffey012
08-23-2010, 12:49 PM
He is wayyy overdue guys!

texasdave
08-23-2010, 01:16 PM
He is wayyy overdue guys!

One would think.

DocRed
08-23-2010, 01:20 PM
Dunno, but if it hasn't changed yet I don't think it wil. Might as well get used to it and hope Gomes comes around.

Trace's Daddy
08-23-2010, 01:30 PM
Give him a week off, then he'll turn it around at the plate. I don't know about his defense though.

New York Red
08-23-2010, 01:31 PM
He did a double switch. If he was replaced for that at bat, then you would need to use a PH in the pitcher's spot. Instead he got the at bat, then the double switch, and the the pitcher's spot is moved further back. The order did get back to Gomes's spot and a PH was eventually needed, but only becuase 7 batters went to the plate in the 9th.
I understood Dusty's thinking at the time. I just thought he could have pinch hit for Gomes initially and then made the double switch afterwards. I just don't understand giving a slumping hitter an extra AB in an extremely important late-game situation. But I guess my real problem is with what the OP posted to start this thread. Why is Gomes still hitting in the middle of the lineup? And still playing every day?

:confused:

Griffey012
08-23-2010, 01:35 PM
I really don't think there is any logical answer to the original question. I have done my fair share of defending Dusty and generally like him as a manager. But his continued infatuation with playing Gomes is just putrid, as Gomes has been the worst regular in the MLB for a majority of the season (and he's not even fast). I really thought after his 2nd debacle in LF and horrible night at the plate against Arizona, we would see him ride the pine for a while.

Wow was I wrong, and wow I can't believe Dusty is really that ignorant when it comes to Gomes.

krm1580
08-23-2010, 01:56 PM
I look at Gomes this way. He is in the lineup for one reason and that is power. He hit 20 HRs last year in 281AB so there was a reasonable expecation he would hit 30+ playing full time. Well he is on a pace for 17.

If the guy is only going to hit 17 HRs I would much rather Heisey playing full time. He is a better hitter, much better defender and runner. Since power cannot differentiate them I would think playing Heisey full time is a no brainer.

scott91575
08-23-2010, 02:01 PM
I understood Dusty's thinking at the time. I just thought he could have pinch hit for Gomes initially and then made the double switch afterwards. I just don't understand giving a slumping hitter an extra AB in an extremely important late-game situation.

Well, that would use two guys instead of one sooner than you need to use them. Then once you got around to that spot again it would be 3 guys used off the bench instead of two. It just saves a bench player just in case.


But I guess my real problem is with what the OP posted to start this thread. Why is Gomes still hitting in the middle of the lineup? And still playing every day?

:confused:

That, in the end, is the real issue. I won't fight anyone who wants Gomes warming a seat on the bench.

tobttr
08-23-2010, 02:07 PM
But is anybody really surprised that he has cooled off? He had a really nice year in 09, playing part-time. He wasn't a hot commodity in the free agent market in the offseason. I for one never really thought our LF problems were solved when we signed him. He's OK but I think some of us set our expectations a little high. I would take 17 HR from him for the season, but I would sit him down for a while, too. It's a long grind from April to October & maybe he could use the time off. Yes, play Heisey out there.

GIDP
08-23-2010, 02:09 PM
Dusty tends to give guys who had good streaks long leashes. Dusty really seems to be blinded by a blazing hot streak instead of a consistent player. Dusty sees better than stats do.

texasdave
08-23-2010, 02:11 PM
Dusty, IMO, wasted an out. And no double-switch was necessary. Simply pinch hit and be done with it. Masset was only going to pitch one inning anyway. And no matter when the pitcher's spot came up in the ninth, a pinch hitter was going to be used.

Griffey012
08-23-2010, 02:13 PM
This is the 1st topic that has ever been a unanimous agreement on RedZone I believe.

texasdave
08-23-2010, 02:18 PM
This is the 1st topic that has ever been a unanimous agreement on RedZone I believe.

The only person that disagrees is the only person that counts - Dusty Baker. :)

defender
08-23-2010, 02:38 PM
It would be nice if either Heisey or Edmonds could play themselves into the Job. Edmonds is 3 for his last 20, Heisey 2 for his last 20.

Griffey012
08-23-2010, 02:42 PM
It would be nice if either Heisey or Edmonds could play themselves into the Job. Edmonds is 3 for his last 20, Heisey 2 for his last 20.

Gomes is OPS'ing .590 in August with some horrible defense, his defense has recently became much worse than it was through most of the year. He has played himself out of the job, no matter what other people are doing. And shoot, Nix has been playing some pretty good baseball for about a month now. That should at least take care of Gomes never playing against RHP.

couch_manager
08-23-2010, 02:59 PM
Could this huge slump have anything to do with the fact that has been sitting on 99 homeruns since July 19th? We saw how Alex Rodriguez slumped when he was at 599 for so long. A-Rod's .avg went from .275 to .264 when he was going for his 600th. Gomes has gone from .283 to .261 since his last one. It's pathetic to me that a player would actually value a "milestone" like this.

GIDP
08-23-2010, 03:00 PM
Hes been in a slump all year long other than May though.

scott91575
08-23-2010, 03:02 PM
Dusty, IMO, wasted an out. And no double-switch was necessary. Simply pinch hit and be done with it. Masset was only going to pitch one inning anyway. And no matter when the pitcher's spot came up in the ninth, a pinch hitter was going to be used.

That spot was up 7th in the 9th. You think 7 batters in an inning is a normal number? It was actually unlikely that a pinch hitter would be needed in the 9th.

Anytime you push back the pitcher's spot you reduce the likelihood of needing a pinch hitter. Can can you end up using the same number of hitters? Sure. Yet the double switch moved the pitcher's spot back 4 spots, reducing the percentage you need that additional pinch hitter by 44%.

You have no confidence in Gomes, but apparently Dusty does. That is a different issue. Making the double switch there was the right call. You get the defensive replacement, don't use a pinch hitter, and you push back the pitcher's spot in the order

texasdave
08-23-2010, 03:31 PM
I see what you are saying. Once Gomes hit, the double switch was necessary. I approached it from the point of view that if you PH for Gomes the double switch was not necessary.

Reds
08-23-2010, 04:00 PM
Of anyone on the team I'd feel safe saying he is more concerned about this than we are. Gomes plays the game the right way, and still makes it look bad sometimes, but I've never questioned the guys hustle and ambition. I was hoping he turned the corner the night he drew 4 walks, but he continues to spiral downward.

Kingspoint
08-23-2010, 04:05 PM
Seems to me that he's being fazed out.

kfm
08-23-2010, 04:14 PM
This is simply a guess, but I think it could be a couple of things. One, while many of us simply dismiss Dusty as stubborn, the line between stubborn and paticence is just as fine as the line between confidence and arrogrance. People tend to make that decision based upon their feelings about the person. I think for one Dusty is pretty patient with guys and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it does not. He has shown great patience with the young outfielders and Cordero just to name a few players. I think players appreciate this far more than fans do. Second, I think it is fair to say that the Gomes is perhaps the emotional leader of the team. It is hard to be the emotional leader from the bench and perhaps Dusty is concerned about striking the proper balance. Finally, I think Dusty knows when Gomes was on how special the offense was, and that he thinks Gomes probably has another streak like that in him especially if he could get that 100th homerun out of the way. For what it is worth, I would probably just go with a straight platoon at this point with Gomes only playing against lefties with the occaisional start agains righthanders he has had good success against. But there is probably a reason he is the manager, and I am just a guy typing on a computer.

TheBigLebowski
08-23-2010, 04:37 PM
I see what you are saying. Once Gomes hit, the double switch was necessary. I approached it from the point of view that if you PH for Gomes the double switch was not necessary.

I am going to pretend I didn't see you post that a double-switch was not necessary.....I am going to try and PRETEND I didn't see that.....

Redsnake
08-23-2010, 04:55 PM
This is the 1st topic that has ever been a unanimous agreement on RedZone I believe.

Sweet! Maybe this topic will give me enough street cred to get the call up to the Old Red Guard. i've only been trying since 2008.

bshall2105
08-23-2010, 05:06 PM
Sweet! Maybe this topic will give me enough street cred to get the call up to the Old Red Guard. i've only been trying since 2008.

Why would you want to be the baby of the ORG when you could be the king of the SunDeck?

New York Red
08-23-2010, 07:02 PM
Gomes not in the lineup tonight.

mound_patrol
08-23-2010, 07:13 PM
I've wanted Gomes DFA'd for some time now, but we're to the point in the season where Sept 1st is right around the corner. But if we had to fill out the playoff rosters today I don't see how Gomes could be on it. He's easily our 6th best of'er on the current roster and I'd take a few guys down in AAA over him for the playoffs. If the Reds make the playoffs it'll be interesting to see who makes the cut. Hope we get that opportunity.

KOBasinger
08-23-2010, 07:19 PM
I'm not sure if we will ever see the Gomes of April/May again. He did win us maybe 5-6 games but there is no reason why he should be playing right now. Nix is better than Gomes right now IMO.

GIDP
08-23-2010, 07:29 PM
I just dont understand why Dusty refuses to play Edmonds in left.

mlh1981
08-23-2010, 07:55 PM
So sad, because there are few guys on this team that I root for more than Gomes.

All it takes is one or two games where he performs well, and perhaps that gets him going, but A). how long do you have to wait around for that, and B). when will Dusty just perhaps accept that Gomes is Gomes. He is who he is.

New York Red
08-23-2010, 09:57 PM
I just dont understand why Dusty refuses to play Edmonds in left.
I assumed LF would be Edmonds' spot as soon as we got him. Another head scratcher. :dunno:

Vottomatic
08-23-2010, 10:36 PM
Another case of "too long of a leash".

Dusty believes in letting players work their way out of a slump. Problem is, it hurts the rest of the team while they do it.

Eric the Red
08-23-2010, 11:02 PM
Gomes not in the lineup tonight.

He'll be in the lineup the next three games I bet, however. Tomorrow against LHP Jonathan Sanchez, Wednesday vs LHP Madison Bumgarner and Friday vs yet another LHP in Tom Gorzelanny.

Billy Bates
08-24-2010, 01:50 AM
Injuries to Nix and Edmonds tonight may have just shortened the OF platoon. It's unfortunate b/c Nix has been tearing the cover off the ball lately, and Edmonds has been hitting the ball hard as well. Pick your poison right now with Gomes (whose struggles have been well documented), Heisey (2 for his last 20) and Stubbs. Good thing Bruce is starting to find his swing

Kingspoint
08-24-2010, 04:20 AM
Hopefully, Nix won't miss much time. He's been great during this stretch run.