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View Full Version : Dare We Say, Chapman to the Rescue?



Sea Ray
08-25-2010, 09:09 PM
If the rest of you are like me, the biggest worry you have watching a Reds game is that they'll blow a big lead. I don't worry about a 5-0 loss or even a 16-5 loss. Sometimes it's just not our day. But losing games after being up 10-1 has the potential to devastate a ballclub.

With that in mind, I think what this team needs more than anything else is a shutdown hammer for the bullpen. I guy who can put a fire, like the 8th inning today, out.

I hate to put this sort of pressure on an untested rookie but I think this team needs Aroldis Chapman more than ever right now. We need a guy who can prevent these sorts of meltdowns. A guy you can put in there and know he won't give up 6 runs. Right now there's not a guy in that pen who isn't vulnerable to giving up a six run inning, although perhaps Coco has turned the corner.

I think we need Chapman and we need him now. He will have a chance of being the guy who puts us over the top in these last 5 weeks. Wouldn't that be a story?

cincrazy
08-25-2010, 09:20 PM
If the rest of you are like me, the biggest worry you have watching a Reds game is that they'll blow a big lead. I don't worry about a 5-0 loss or even a 16-5 loss. Sometimes it's just not our day. But losing games after being up 10-1 has the potential to devastate a ballclub.

With that in mind, I think what this team needs more than anything else is a shutdown hammer for the bullpen. I guy who can put a fire, like the 8th inning today, out.

I hate to put this sort of pressure on an untested rookie but I think this team needs Aroldis Chapman more than ever right now. We need a guy who can prevent these sorts of meltdowns. A guy you can put in there and know he won't give up 6 runs. Right now there's not a guy in that pen who isn't vulnerable to giving up a six run inning, although perhaps Coco has turned the corner.

I think we need Chapman and we need him now. He will have a chance of being the guy who puts us over the top in these last 5 weeks. Wouldn't that be a story?

He could be our version of the 2002 K-Rod. He needs to be ASAP. Smith, Ondrusek, and Bray were brilliant for a while. But their luck is running out, and they need to be relegated to more of a 6th inning role than 7th and 8th.

mdccclxix
08-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Anything but another Bill Bray outing, I've seen enough for now. I like the guy, but he's struggling and, more than that, this team needs some strikeout pitchers - badly. I was upset Masset wasn't used in the 8th because they were connecting with everything all series and he's our best K man. Besides, he's our 8th inning guy.

WVRedsFan
08-25-2010, 10:23 PM
I think the multitudes will be highly disappointed in Chapman once he gets up. He still walks a lot of hitters and being a reliever, that's not good. I'm also concerned about changing him to a relief pitcher and then trying to get him back to starting. We've seen the Danny Graves experiment go sour. I hope this isn't a repeat. I don't like the way they've handled this at all.

WVRedsFan
08-25-2010, 10:26 PM
He could be our version of the 2002 K-Rod. He needs to be ASAP. Smith, Ondrusek, and Bray were brilliant for a while. But their luck is running out, and they need to be relegated to more of a 6th inning role than 7th and 8th.Bray has never been brilliant in my estimation. Leave runners on when he comes in and they will score while Bray looks brilliant. Not a fan.

As for Ondrusek and Smith, they are mere children and will probably improve with time, but we're in a pennant race and there's no time for growing up. Use Arthur in sports, bring Masset in the 8th, and (shudder) Codero in the 9th. And just let the rest be mop-up.

kaldaniels
08-25-2010, 10:43 PM
I think the multitudes will be highly disappointed in Chapman once he gets up. He still walks a lot of hitters and being a reliever, that's not good. I'm also concerned about changing him to a relief pitcher and then trying to get him back to starting. We've seen the Danny Graves experiment go sour. I hope this isn't a repeat. I don't like the way they've handled this at all.

Just remember, its all relative, but in August (which makes up 20 percent of his career as a Red), he has walked 3 in 10.1 innings. Thats alright by me.

I do hope that there is a good plan to get him back on track to being a starter.

cincrazy
08-25-2010, 10:48 PM
Bray has never been brilliant in my estimation. Leave runners on when he comes in and they will score while Bray looks brilliant. Not a fan.

As for Ondrusek and Smith, they are mere children and will probably improve with time, but we're in a pennant race and there's no time for growing up. Use Arthur in sports, bring Masset in the 8th, and (shudder) Codero in the 9th. And just let the rest be mop-up.

Well, I wasn't really calling Bray himself brilliant, just the work of the bullpen in general. They played over their heads for an extended stretch, and I think that stretch is coming to a close.

OnBaseMachine
08-25-2010, 11:50 PM
Chapman needs to be up by Friday. Forget about waiting until September 1st, he needs to be immediately. The bullpen is a mess right now. Rick Sweet has said he's ready. Fans who have watched him say he is ready. Jerry Walker from the Reds FO has said he's ready. He needs to be in Cincinnati this weekend.

WVRedsFan
08-25-2010, 11:52 PM
Well, I wasn't really calling Bray himself brilliant, just the work of the bullpen in general. They played over their heads for an extended stretch, and I think that stretch is coming to a close.

Sorry I misunderstood. I thought we got pretty good work out of Masset and Codero today, but really they were the only relievers who pitched well the whole series. I don't count Bray because he came in, threw a wild pitch and a groudout allowing two runs.

You may be right. Then again, maybe the Giants were just "on" those 3 days and things are well. We'll soon see.

Brutus
08-25-2010, 11:53 PM
Chapman needs to be up by Friday. Forget about waiting until September 1st, he needs to be immediately. The bullpen is a mess right now. Rick Sweet has said he's ready. Fans who have watched him say he is ready. Jerry Walker from the Reds FO has said he's ready. He needs to be in Cincinnati this weekend.

There are only 5 games left between now and then. They've waited (and survived) this long, I don't see what will hurt waiting an extra few days.

WVRedsFan
08-25-2010, 11:54 PM
Chapman needs to be up by Friday. Forget about waiting until September 1st, he needs to be immediately. The bullpen is a mess right now. Rick Sweet has said he's ready. Fans who have watched him say he is ready. Jerry Walker from the Reds FO has said he's ready. He needs to be in Cincinnati this weekend.If that's the case, why isn't he here? This makes no sense at all.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2010, 12:01 AM
There are only 5 games left between now and then. They've waited (and survived) this long, I don't see what will hurt waiting an extra few days.

Every game matters at this point. I think Chapman improves the bullpen the minute he's called up. Why not call him up sooner rather than later? What's to lose? Just send down Bray or Lecure and bring up Chapman.

cincrazy
08-26-2010, 12:04 AM
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought we got pretty good work out of Masset and Codero today, but really they were the only relievers who pitched well the whole series. I don't count Bray because he came in, threw a wild pitch and a groudout allowing two runs.

You may be right. Then again, maybe the Giants were just "on" those 3 days and things are well. We'll soon see.

No reason to apologize, I worded it poorly :).

I'm VERY encouraged by Coco's recent performances. And Masset has been nails for a while now. Add Chapman to that mix.... WHEW. Nasty.

The rest of the guys however... big question mark. Rhodes is older than half the stadiums in MLB it seems, and the others are all pups.

Hmmmm..... maybe there's another Rheal Cormier or Gary Majewski out there to save the day! :).

cincrazy
08-26-2010, 12:05 AM
Every game matters at this point. I think Chapman improves the bullpen the minute he's called up. Why not call him up sooner rather than later? What's to lose? Just send down Bray or Lecure and bring up Chapman.

Agreed. I bring him up ASAP. I see no reason to wait. The clock has struck midnight, and this bullpen is turning into a rather large pumpkin. Time to start cleaning it up a bit.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 12:16 AM
Every game matters at this point. I think Chapman improves the bullpen the minute he's called up. Why not call him up sooner rather than later? What's to lose? Just send down Bray or Lecure and bring up Chapman.

Well there are certainly other ways to get creative, but the difference is that you're maximizing your roster flex on August 31. The more options you give yourself for the playoffs the better shape you're in.

kaldaniels
08-26-2010, 12:21 AM
Well there are certainly other ways to get creative, but the difference is that you're maximizing your roster flex on August 31. The more options you give yourself for the playoffs the better shape you're in.

I may be wrong but I don't think it will matter.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 12:23 AM
I may be wrong but I don't think it will matter.

It may or may not matter, but you still have to plan for it as an organization.

nemesis
08-26-2010, 03:34 AM
It may or may not matter, but you still have to plan for it as an organization.

But would a loss or two in those 5 games due to an ineffective bullpen cost you the playoffs. It wouldn't do you much good then...

Brutus
08-26-2010, 03:36 AM
But would a loss or two in those 5 games due to an ineffective bullpen cost you the playoffs. It wouldn't do you much good then...

The pen, on the whole, has been pretty good the last few months. Conjuring up doomsday scenarios over what could happen by not calling up one reliever, who would only pitch once or twice tops in that 5-day span, is quite hyperbolic.

nemesis
08-26-2010, 03:40 AM
Conjuring up doomsday scenarios over what could happen by not calling up one reliever, who would only pitch once or twice tops in that 5-day span, is quite hyperbolic.

Agreed. It could be nothing more than a what if. But it could virtually come down to a one game difference in playoffs or no playoffs. So would you just as comfortable trotting Bray out there in a tight spot or Chapman over the next 5 games a couple times? Ask the '99 team how much difference one game makes.

kaldaniels
08-26-2010, 07:48 AM
It may or may not matter, but you still have to plan for it as an organization.

What I mean is, I don't think calling him up today rather than Sept 1 would negatively affect the postseason roster.

Hoosier Red
08-26-2010, 09:30 AM
That's a good point Kal, so long as the extra players on the 60 man DL are all pitchers, wouldn't the "exemption" apply to any two pitchers who are in AAA?
And if Springer is moved to the 60 man DL, does that open up another exemption where if the pitcher isn't on the 25 man roster on Sept. 1 he can still be on the playoff roster?

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 09:38 AM
I think the multitudes will be highly disappointed in Chapman once he gets up. He still walks a lot of hitters and being a reliever, that's not good. I'm also concerned about changing him to a relief pitcher and then trying to get him back to starting. We've seen the Danny Graves experiment go sour. I hope this isn't a repeat. I don't like the way they've handled this at all.

Supposedly his walk rate has improved since he got accustomed to relieving. My model for him is more along the lines of David Price than Danny Graves

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 09:42 AM
The rest of the guys however... big question mark. Rhodes is older than half the stadiums in MLB it seems, and the others are all pups.



A lot more than half. I'd say he's older than all but three, Wrigley, Fenway and Dodger stadium. Good line...:thumbup:

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 09:44 AM
The pen, on the whole, has been pretty good the last few months. Conjuring up doomsday scenarios over what could happen by not calling up one reliever, who would only pitch once or twice tops in that 5-day span, is quite hyperbolic.

My guess is if they'd lost yesterday there'd be posts today about the historic nature of a team losing 6 run leads in the 8th inning or later in one major league season. They can't afford to lose anymore 10-1 leads...

Brutus
08-26-2010, 02:18 PM
My guess is if they'd lost yesterday there'd be posts today about the historic nature of a team losing 6 run leads in the 8th inning or later in one major league season. They can't afford to lose anymore 10-1 leads...

But they didn't lose yesterday. They still managed to get it together despite the pen. In fact, they held it together for 4 scoreless innings to end the game.

And prior to the last 3 days, they had just gone 8-1 in the previous 9 games. Obviously the bullpen hasn't been in dire need to this point.

Slyder
08-26-2010, 02:26 PM
But they didn't lose yesterday. They still managed to get it together despite the pen. In fact, they held it together for 4 scoreless innings to end the game.

And prior to the last 3 days, they had just gone 8-1 in the previous 9 games. Obviously the bullpen hasn't been in dire need to this point.

Who exactly were we playing in those 9 games? Arizona, Florida, and Los Angeles? Ya wins are wins but I dont think you'll find two teams playing to end the season WORSE than LA and Arizona.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 02:34 PM
Who exactly were we playing in those 9 games? Arizona, Florida, and Los Angeles? Ya wins are wins but I dont think you'll find two teams playing to end the season WORSE than LA and Arizona.

LA is above .500. And it's still Los Angeles--a place that has given the Reds nightmares.

But even pretending for a second the Dodgers are as bad right now as you say... the Reds play the Cubs and Brewers before September 1. If the Reds' bullpen is benefiting from a poor schedule, then shouldn't the fact they're about to play two pretty soft teams be even more reason not to panic about the pen for five days? It's not like the Reds are getting to face the Cardinals and Phillies again. On the contrary, they're playing the Cubs & Brewers.

If you can't get past 5 more days with the staff you have, against these two teams, then the one reliever you were going to bring up wasn't going to be enough to help you get to the playoffs anyhow.

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 03:21 PM
But they didn't lose yesterday. They still managed to get it together despite the pen. In fact, they held it together for 4 scoreless innings to end the game.

And prior to the last 3 days, they had just gone 8-1 in the previous 9 games. Obviously the bullpen hasn't been in dire need to this point.

I'm awfully glad they didn't but what I'm trying to do is prevent a loss. It's called being proactive rather than reactive.

Let me try to understand your point. Are you saying if they'd have lost yesterday you'd admit that the bullpen needs an arm like Chapman? How does whether they won or lost yesterday affect this debate?

Brutus
08-26-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm awfully glad they didn't but what I'm trying to do is prevent a loss. It's called being proactive rather than reactive.

Let me try to understand your point. Are you saying if they'd have lost yesterday you'd admit that the bullpen needs an arm like Chapman? How does whether they won or lost yesterday affect this debate?

No, my point is that any reliever is going to have a max of 1-2 appearances in the next 5 games. If the Reds' plan, whatever their reasoning, is to bring up Chapman on September 1, waiting an extra 4-5 days is not going to mkae much of a difference at this point.

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 03:34 PM
No, my point is that any reliever is going to have a max of 1-2 appearances in the next 5 games. If the Reds' plan, whatever their reasoning, is to bring up Chapman on September 1, waiting an extra 4-5 days is not going to mkae much of a difference at this point.

Fine but you didn't mention winning yesterday. My question is what does the fact that they won yesterday have to do with it?

Brutus
08-26-2010, 03:39 PM
Fine but you didn't mention winning yesterday. My question is what does the fact that they won yesterday have to do with it?

Just to point out, that in spite of everyone's dire predictions of doom, they're still winning games. And that's the most important aspect of whether or not quick, radical change is needed.

I'm not saying that people don't have a legitimate concern with getting Chapman up here. Just that it's going to be 5 more days and he'll be in Cincinnati. I just don't think there's a reason to circumvent the Reds' plan for an extra couple days. It really isn't that big of an issue, especially since the Reds are playing two teams between now and then that they should beat most of the time with or without Chapman.

Big Klu
08-26-2010, 03:41 PM
Rhodes is older than half the stadiums in MLB it seems...


A lot more than half. I'd say he's older than all but three, Wrigley, Fenway and Dodger stadium. Good line...:thumbup:

Actually, he's older than all but five:

Fenway Park (b. 1912)
Wrigley Field (b. 1914)
Dodger Stadium (b. 1962)
Anaheim Stadium (b. 1966)
Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum (b. 1966, first baseball game in 1968)
Arthur Rhodes (b. 1969)

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 03:43 PM
Just to point out, that in spite of everyone's dire predictions of doom, they're still winning games. And that's the most important aspect of whether or not quick, radical change is needed.

I'm not saying that people don't have a legitimate concern with getting Chapman up here. Just that it's going to be 5 more days and he'll be in Cincinnati. I just don't think there's a reason to circumvent the Reds' plan for an extra couple days. It really isn't that big of an issue, especially since the Reds are playing two teams between now and then that they should beat most of the time with or without Chapman.

I take it you'd feel the same way regardless of whether Sandoval's throw went into the stands or not in the 9th.

If the Reds think they're a better team with Chapman sans Bray or whoever then they ought to do it

Brutus
08-26-2010, 03:51 PM
I take it you'd feel the same way regardless of whether Sandoval's throw went into the stands or not in the 9th.

If the Reds think they're a better team with Chapman sans Bray or whoever then they ought to do it

I would feel the same way. I don't subscribe to the reactionary 1 of 162 panic.

The Reds have their reasons for bringing Chapman up September 1. Part of it is probably strategic. Part of it is probably monetary (there are admittedly some financial issues with expenses they pay a player by starting his service before September 1) and there may be some other issues too. Bottom line is the Reds, in their planning, have determined that September 1 is the best date to bring him up. I'm sure they have their reasons.

It's hard for me to question those reasons since I don't know what they are for certain. But since they seem to know what they're doing, I'll have faith that it's been well thought out (and clearly it has).

bucksfan2
08-26-2010, 04:07 PM
This whole Chapman situation is odd to me.

First off the Reds sign Chapman and declare that he will be a starter. He is given the chance to win a starting role in the spring. He loses out and is sent to AAA as a stater. A little over midway through the season Chapman, who has been as expected as a starter, is converted into a reliever because that is the position the Reds deem they can use him in 2010. The Reds aren't planning on calling him up until the rosters expand which makes me wonder if the Reds aren't planning on using Chapman in the pen for an extended period of time. I may underestimate the impact he can have over the course of 30 games or so.

BRM
08-26-2010, 04:16 PM
I would feel the same way. I don't subscribe to the reactionary 1 of 162 panic.


The Reds bullpen ranks in the bottom half of the NL in ERA, OPSA, BAA among others. I'd hardly call it 1 of 162 panic that folks have a concern there and want to see it improved.

membengal
08-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Yup, seems to me chapman would be an upgrade and would help. If so, then sooner beats later, even if it is "just" five games. In Chapman's side of the ledger, he went to the pen w/ no complaints and has really sharpened his control in the last two months.

This team could use him.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 04:25 PM
The Reds bullpen ranks in the bottom half of the NL in ERA, OPSA, BAA among others. I'd hardly call it 1 of 162 panic that folks have a concern there and want to see it improved.

Again, as I said in a previous post, I didn't say concern wasn't legit. I said it's not worthy of the overreaction, "oh my, we can't wait 5 more days" type stuff.

Despite the numbers you cite, they are in first place, 19 games over .500 on August 26. I think we can wait 5 more days without disaster. My point isn't that the bullpen can't be improved, it's that we're 5 months into the season and the Reds have survived with what they have... I think we can get by for 5 more days. Has nothing to do with whether or not they can stand to improve... it's that 5 more days won't make or break the season by not adding one more reliever--who at most would pitch twice in those 5 games.

Cedric
08-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Again, as I said in a previous post, I didn't say concern wasn't legit. I said it's not worthy of the overreaction, "oh my, we can't wait 5 more days" type stuff.

Despite the numbers you cite, they are in first place, 19 games over .500 on August 26. I think we can wait 5 more days without disaster. My point isn't that the bullpen can't be improved, it's that we're 5 months into the season and the Reds have survived with what they have... I think we can get by for 5 more days. Has nothing to do with whether or not they can stand to improve... it's that 5 more days won't make or break the season by not adding one more reliever--who at most would pitch twice in those 5 games.

I guess the question is what is worth more? I'd much rather have a guy who will probably be your 1st or 2nd best reliever over losing someone like Bill Bray off the playoff roster.

BRM
08-26-2010, 04:29 PM
Again, as I said in a previous post, I didn't say concern wasn't legit. I said it's not worthy of the overreaction, "oh my, we can't wait 5 more days" type stuff.

Despite the numbers you cite, they are in first place, 19 games over .500 on August 26. I think we can wait 5 more days without disaster. My point isn't that the bullpen can't be improved, it's that we're 5 months into the season and the Reds have survived with what they have... I think we can get by for 5 more days. Has nothing to do with whether or not they can stand to improve... it's that 5 more days won't make or break the season by not adding one more reliever--who at most would pitch twice in those 5 games.

I guess we just disagree. If he's better than what's currently in the pen, he should be up. I just don't see it as an overreaction that Reds fans want the best available arms in the pen.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 04:30 PM
I guess the question is what is worth more? I'd much rather have a guy who will probably be your 1st or 2nd best reliever over losing someone like Bill Bray off the playoff roster.

It's a fair question, but one that can't be answered in a vaccuum. The Reds apparently have their reasons why they're playing it this way. It might be mostly financial. I don't know for sure. But absent the knowledge of their rationale, it's hard to really critique the move because it wouldn't be fully for the right reasons.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 04:31 PM
I guess we just disagree. If he's better than what's currently in the pen, he should be up. I just don't see it as an overreaction that Reds fans want the best available arms in the pen.

I think parsing 5 more days is an overreaction, when clearly the club has motives for why they're playing it this way.

The season has gone on for over 140 days thus far. If people can't patiently wait 5 more, I think that's an overreaction.

BRM
08-26-2010, 04:35 PM
I think parsing 5 more days is an overreaction, when clearly the club has motives for why they're playing it this way.

The season has gone on for over 140 days thus far. If people can't patiently wait 5 more, I think that's an overreaction.

Every loss hurts when you're in a pennant race. Again, all folks want is the best available arms in the pen. Improve a weakness on the team.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 04:38 PM
Every loss hurts when you're in a pennant race. Again, all folks want is the best available arms in the pen. Improve a weakness on the team.

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. No one is saying there's something wrong with wanting the best available arms. But that still doesn't change the fact we're talking about less than a week to wait for the help to arrive.

kaldaniels
08-26-2010, 04:40 PM
if Bray is stinking it up and Aroldis is tearing it up, you adapt and call Chapman up 5 days earlier. That simple.

Brutus
08-26-2010, 04:46 PM
if Bray is stinking it up and Aroldis is tearing it up, you adapt and call Chapman up 5 days earlier. That simple.

Bray isn't exactly stinking it up. He's got a 4.58 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 22 K's in 19 innings and 8 walks. Heck, he just pitched 3 scoreless innings in 3 appearances in LA & San Fran -- which seems to be the basis in which suddenly the Reds are desperate for help.

Those are pedestrian numbers, but they don't exactly scream, "HELP!"

kaldaniels
08-26-2010, 04:48 PM
Brutus, you didn't just act like Bray pitched well out west did you?

Hoosier Red
08-26-2010, 04:49 PM
I think Brutus' point is that many who say we need him up now 5 days before September 1 were probably saying they needed him up a week ago or two weeks ago or whatever. That's fine, as he said the Reds had their reasons for September 1 being the call up date and it's hard to criticize the logic without knowing it fully.

Is there anyone who thinks it's important for Chapman to be up now instead of 5 days from now who thought a week ago he should be up?
If so, what has changed your opinion in the last week?

kaldaniels
08-26-2010, 04:57 PM
I think Brutus' point is that many who say we need him up now 5 days before September 1 were probably saying they needed him up a week ago or two weeks ago or whatever. That's fine, as he said the Reds had their reasons for September 1 being the call up date and it's hard to criticize the logic without knowing it fully.

Is there anyone who thinks it's important for Chapman to be up now instead of 5 days from now who thought a week ago he should be up?
If so, what has changed your opinion in the last week?

Nothing has changed I wanted him up before the trip.

Hoosier Red
08-26-2010, 05:05 PM
Nothing has changed I wanted him up before the trip.

Right, so the Reds in their infinite wisdom decided to disagree with you then.(And Now.)

Why should they change their plans now as opposed to waiting until September 1?

That's not to say the Reds are correct in keeping him in AAA, I want him up too. But rather if they give up the plan now, 5 days away from September 1, it would be a purely reactionary move.

You may not like the Reds reasoning, but they're being consistent.

mth123
08-26-2010, 07:45 PM
Right, so the Reds in their infinite wisdom decided to disagree with you then.(And Now.)

Why should they change their plans now as opposed to waiting until September 1?

That's not to say the Reds are correct in keeping him in AAA, I want him up too. But rather if they give up the plan now, 5 days away from September 1, it would be a purely reactionary move.

You may not like the Reds reasoning, but they're being consistent.

But the reasoning before the roadtrip was that there was no one pitching poorly enough to be demoted. Now there are lots of candidates: Lecure, Leake, Bray are all scuffling and even Ondrusek has gone south.

What is the downside to bring Chapman up now?

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2010, 07:53 PM
I doesn't sound like we'll see Chapman before September 1st, unfortunately. I don't understand that.

From John Fay:


The bullpen was heavily worked in the San Francisco series. But the Reds will not likely add an arm before tonight’s game.

“We don’t plan on it,” Jocketty said. “We’ll probably wait until Sept. 1.”

If I were in ticket department, I’d ask nicely if they could move it up to Aug. 30 with Aroldis Chapman — might sell some tickets for the Milwaukee series.


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/08/26/jocketty-on-nix-harang-relief-help/

Sea Ray
08-26-2010, 11:09 PM
Is there anyone who thinks it's important for Chapman to be up now instead of 5 days from now who thought a week ago he should be up?
If so, what has changed your opinion in the last week?

38 runs in three games

RedLegSuperStar
08-26-2010, 11:17 PM
No Chapman yesterday and no Chapman tonight. I still think he's coming up.

TheNext44
08-26-2010, 11:24 PM
I believe that whoever gets sent down would be off the post season roster. Some strange rule about sending guys down after the trade deadline and before Sept. 1st.
Someone who knows these rules please correct me if I'm mistaken.

If that's true, then you are calling up Chapman for a few games and eliminating an option for the post season roster. Might not seem like a big deal, but it could be if a reliever or two gets hurt, or becomes ineffective, including Chapman.

OnBaseMachine
08-26-2010, 11:27 PM
I believe that whoever gets sent down would be off the post season roster. Some strange rule about sending guys down after the trade deadline and before Sept. 1st.
Someone who knows these rules please correct me if I'm mistaken.

If that's true, then you are calling up Chapman for a few games and eliminating an option for the post season roster. Might not seem like a big deal, but it could be if a reliever or two gets hurt, or becomes ineffective, including Chapman.

Nothing against Sam Lecure, but I'm not going to shed a tear if he's unavailable to be added to the playoff roster.

TheNext44
08-27-2010, 12:03 AM
Nothing against Sam Lecure, but I'm not going to shed a tear if he's unavailable to be added to the playoff roster.

Me either. But what if Bray and Masset get hurt? Or if Chapman is terrible and Ondrusek gets hurt? Or Leake needs to be shut down and Rhodes gets hurt?

Then you need LeCure just to have enough arms in the pen for the playoffs. Again, you risk that just for 5 days of Chapman.

Anyway, I'm not worried about the pen these next few days. A few guys had some tough games. It happens, and every time this year, they bounced back. If this had lasted two weeks, maybe I'm worried, but three days?

WebScorpion
08-27-2010, 02:55 AM
Anyway, I'm not worried about the pen these next few days. A few guys had some tough games. It happens, and every time this year, they bounced back. If this had lasted two weeks, maybe I'm worried, but three days?

That's my take on it too. This is what bullpens do...no relief pitcher is perfect all year long. They pitch very well for a stretch and then experience a little melt down. The best relievers minimize the number of melt downs in a season. If we called up another guy every time a reliever had a rough patch, we'd have lost most of them through waiver claims by now. :rolleyes: We aren't even sure Chapman won't get clobbered when they call him up...after all, he's dominating AAA hitters at the moment, Major League hitters are quite a bit more capable. Bottom line is, don't get your panties in a bunch, Chapman will be up in time to get a good evaluation of his current Major League ability and guage whether we could use him on the post-season roster or not. :thumbup:

Right now, we need to focus on the (now Derrek Lee-less) Cubs and take care of business in Cincinnati. GO REDS! :redcap:

reds44
08-27-2010, 03:08 AM
I have a REALLY hard time believing somebody who has the ability to throw 104 is going to get clobbered coming out of the pen.

TheNext44
08-27-2010, 05:04 AM
I have a REALLY hard time believing somebody who has the ability to throw 104 is going to get clobbered coming out of the pen.

Mark Kroon?

bucksfan2
08-27-2010, 09:09 AM
Nothing against Sam Lecure, but I'm not going to shed a tear if he's unavailable to be added to the playoff roster.

I may be wrong but I think LeCure was added to be the long man with Smith going down to AAA. Its not always the top 25 men on the roster rather the meshing 25 men to make the best team. LeCure and Chapman don't do the same thing and aren't really comparable.

Its been along time but I would imagine that you don't put long men on your playoff roster. You want to go with the 7 highest leverage arms in the post season. If having Chapman in AAA until Sept 1st allows that to happen then I don't have an issue with it.

medford
08-27-2010, 02:42 PM
Mo Egger has a poston his blog, from OMGreds I think that says Coco, Juan Franscisco & Chapmann were seen at Auntie Ann's in the Kenwood Mall yesterday. Juan played in the Bats game last night, Chapmann was listed as eligible, but never saw action. True or not? Certainly Juan could have made it back to Louisville in time for the game, perhaps they had him up in case Brandon's 2nd x-rays showed a fracture that required a DL stint. Of course, if you were planning to bring Chapmann up for this weekend, you would think you'd announce it by now to help drum up some extra ticket sales, so I remain skeptical of that ORGreds report, but in all honesty, what is the point in waiting until Sep 1st at this point? If you're planning on using him for as a 60 day DL replacement for postseason roster purposses, couldn't you use that on another pitcher that you sent down (Bray, lecure or whomever?)

http://omgreds.com/2010/

OnBaseMachine
08-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Mo Egger has a poston his blog, from OMGreds I think that says Coco, Juan Franscisco & Chapmann were seen at Auntie Ann's in the Kenwood Mall yesterday. Juan played in the Bats game last night, Chapmann was listed as eligible, but never saw action. True or not? Certainly Juan could have made it back to Louisville in time for the game, perhaps they had him up in case Brandon's 2nd x-rays showed a fracture that required a DL stint. Of course, if you were planning to bring Chapmann up for this weekend, you would think you'd announce it by now to help drum up some extra ticket sales, so I remain skeptical of that ORGreds report, but in all honesty, what is the point in waiting until Sep 1st at this point? If you're planning on using him for as a 60 day DL replacement for postseason roster purposses, couldn't you use that on another pitcher that you sent down (Bray, lecure or whomever?)

http://omgreds.com/2010/

FWIW, Juan Francisco isn't in Louisville's lineup tonight.

BrooklynRedz
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
FWIW, Juan Francisco isn't in Louisville's lineup tonight.

Francisco recalled. Leake to the 15-day DL, retroactive with shoulder fatigue