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View Full Version : Who should Walt sign in the off season



brm7675
08-27-2010, 12:35 PM
Yes I know we are in a heated race for the playoffs, but it is never to soon to look at WHOM Walt should look at for next year. Of the players listed below in positions we need to fill, anyone stick out?

Catchers:

Josh Bard SEA
John Buck TOR
Ramon Hernandez CIN *
Gerald Laird DET
Victor Martinez BOS
Miguel Olivo COL *
A.J. Pierzynski CWS
David Ross ATL
Yorvit Torrealba SD *
Jason Varitek BOS
Gregg Zaun MIL *


SS:

Alex Gonzalez ATL
Cristian Guzman TEX
J.J. Hardy MIN
Omar Infante ATL *
Cesar Izturis BAL
Derek Jeter NYY
Julio Lugo BAL
Jhonny Peralta DET *
Edgar Renteria SF *
Jose Reyes NYM *
Jimmy Rollins PHI *
Ramon Vazquez HOU


Outfield:

Alfredo Amezaga LAD
Frank Catalanotto NYM
Carl Crawford TB
Coco Crisp OAK *
Michael Cuddyer MIN *
David DeJesus KC *
Jody Gerut MIL
Jose Guillen SF
Willie Harris WAS
Brad Hawpe COL *
Austin Kearns NYY
Jason Kubel MIN *
Magglio Ordonez DET *
Marcus Thames NYY
Jayson Werth PHI

Relief Pitchers:

Jeremy Affeldt SF
Grant Balfour TB
Jesse Crain MIN
Scott Downs TOR
Chad Durbin PHI
Kyle Farnsworth ATL
Pedro Feliciano NYM
Jason Frasor TOR
Brian Fuentes LAA *
Chad Gaudin NYY
Matt Guerrier MIN
Aaron Heilman ARZ
Mike Lincoln CIN
Brian Moehler HOU
J.J. Putz CWS
Chad Qualls TB
Jon Rauch MIN
Arthur Rhodes CIN
David Riske MIL *
Mariano Rivera NYY
J.C. Romero PHI *
Bobby Seay DET
Scott Shields LAA
Brian Shouse BOS
Matt Thornton CWS *
Kerry Wood NYY *

brm7675
08-27-2010, 12:36 PM
To me there is one guy that I feel Walt should go after and convince our owner to pony up the money for. You put this guy in the leadoff spot and in CF for the next 5-6 years you will have with him in leadoff, Phillips batting second and Votto in the 3rd spot and top notch top of the lineup...

Carl Crawford TB

bigred97
08-27-2010, 12:38 PM
To me there is one guy that I feel Walt should go after and convince our owner to pony up the money for. You put this guy in the leadoff spot and in CF for the next 5-6 years you will have with him in leadoff, Phillips batting second and Votto in the 3rd spot and top notch top of the lineup...

Carl Crawford TB

Would be nice, but he is probably going to be a Yankee.

bigred97
08-27-2010, 12:40 PM
Jayson Werth PHI IMO

Kingspoint
08-27-2010, 12:42 PM
Votto...before he gets to arb and then Free Agency.

Offer him 8 years for $100M and see if he bites.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 12:44 PM
Depending on costs, i wouldn't mind seeing Walt look at this guy to pair up with Hanigan next year..

John Buck TOR

KOBasinger
08-27-2010, 12:44 PM
Our own players. I'm happy with this team.

If anybody though, I'm going after Crawford.

GIDP
08-27-2010, 12:52 PM
If they increased payroll some they might be able to grab Werth or Crawford, although Im not sure I want to pay Werth 15 million.

if the Twins let Hardy go id look at him for 4-5 million.

redsfan_12
08-27-2010, 12:56 PM
What will our payroll be at next year? Considering we make the playoffs

brm7675
08-27-2010, 01:27 PM
i wouldn't be shocked to see the payroll next season jump to the mid 90's. You have to be able to at least match what the Twins payroll is given both are in mid market sizes and such.

GIDP
08-27-2010, 01:33 PM
The Reds payroll will increase depending on season ticket sales.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 01:34 PM
Where do people keep coming up with $15 million for Werth or Crawford, or that the Reds will even be able approach their ballpark? Just look at the similar if not worse players who went to free agency or signed just before free agency....

Torri Hunter - 5 years, $18 per year
Matt Holliday - 7 years, $17 per year
Jason Bay - 4 years, $16.5 per year
Manny Ramirez - 2 years, $22.5 per year
Andrew Jones - 2 years, $18 million per year
Mark Texiera - 8 year, $22.5 per year (not an outfielder, but still in the same ballpark)

Heck, Jose Freaking Guillen got $12 million per season. Effin Arron Rowand got 5 year at $12 million per season (thanks to one good year).

I would take Crawford or Werth over anyone on that list not named Texiera, as would most of baseball, and the Reds are going to be able to get them to take less than those guys? If they can, great! Highly, highly unlikely.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 01:37 PM
Depending on costs, i wouldn't mind seeing Walt look at this guy to pair up with Hanigan next year..

John Buck TOR

Going to take a long term deal, plenty of money, and no need to go after a long term guy with Mesaraco, Grandal, and Hanigan who are all cheap.

Give Hernandez his option next year, and then move onto Mesaraco in 2012 (if not earlier). By the time Hanigan is gone Grandal should be ready.

RedsFanInBama
08-27-2010, 01:41 PM
I second the Votto motion. We've got a chance to lock this guy up for probably the rest of his good years. I'd like to see us at least get him on a six-year deal.

I'd also like to re-sign Arroyo.

Past that, I'd like to get an outfielder that can bat leadoff.

It would be nice to have the $12 million we are going to be paying CoCo to work with.

GIDP
08-27-2010, 01:51 PM
One good thing the Reds have going for them is a lot of options they can either pick up or decline. A chunk of that money is going to arbitration cases, but they do have the ability to clear a lot of money up if they need to.

Arroyo not being back could clear 11
Harang not being back could clear 10 or so
Ramon not being back could clear 3
Cab clears 3 or something. His contract is weird I'm not sure how his option works
Gomes something like 1.5

thats around what 28 million that could be cleared for arbitration raises not counting expiring contracts.

who knows how it all works itself out but they Reds do have the ability to decline a lot of money due to guys.

schmidty622
08-27-2010, 01:52 PM
I think Hawpe is a pretty perfect target for the Reds for Left. Take a look at his numbers over the last four years and I think it's clear that this year is an aberration. While he doesn't play the best D he can't be any worse than Gomes and left in Cincinnati is pretty small compared to some of the ball parks out west.

His home/road splits aren't that bad but a move to the NL central could help there too. I think he'd be a darn near perfect fit for a team like Cincy to go after while the big boys shell out huge amounts for Crawford and Werth.

Phillips
Heisey/Stubbs
Votto
Rolen
Hawpe
Bruce
Hanigan/Hernandez
Janish/Cozart

redsfan_12
08-27-2010, 01:58 PM
I think Hawpe is a pretty perfect target for the Reds for Left. Take a look at his numbers over the last four years and I think it's clear that this year is an aberration. While he doesn't play the best D he can't be any worse than Gomes and left in Cincinnati is pretty small compared to some of the ball parks out west.

His home/road splits aren't that bad but a move to the NL central could help there too. I think he'd be a darn near perfect fit for a team like Cincy to go after while the big boys shell out huge amounts for Crawford and Werth.

Phillips
Heisey/Stubbs
Votto
Rolen
Hawpe
Bruce
Hanigan/Hernandez
Janish/Cozart

Agree 100%

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:03 PM
BTW...I saw that same list. He is wrong on Cuddyer. He is a 2012 FA. He was one of the guys I liked. Maybe take a look at him at the end of next year.

Only one guy on that list intrigues me because he could be affordable and a definite upgrade....Magglio Ordonez.

His injuries and age are a concern, but when healthy he can still hit and definitely still gets on base. His defense is slightly below average, but better than Gomes. It would be an upgrade that would not cost and arm or a leg, and won't be a long term deal that would affect the signings of the young players. Offer him an incentive laden deal, and I could see the Reds actually swing that one.

Marcus Thames might be worth a shot. That would be an upgrade over Gomes/Nix and not cost a ton. He is not going to light the world on fire, but he is affordable. Hawpe is a thought, but who knows what he will be worth. His defense is Gomesesque, but his bat is better. Yet some idiot team might bid him up to $10 million, and no way I would pay him that.

In the end, the only spot the Reds should look at is LF. No reason to spend a ton anywhere else.

schmidty622
08-27-2010, 02:08 PM
What I would really like is for Alonso to be able to play some left but he would without a doubt be a butcher out there.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:14 PM
One good thing the Reds have going for them is a lot of options they can either pick up or decline. A chunk of that money is going to arbitration cases, but they do have the ability to clear a lot of money up if they need to.

Arroyo not being back could clear 11
Harang not being back could clear 10 or so
Ramon not being back could clear 3
Cab clears 3 or something. His contract is weird I'm not sure how his option works
Gomes something like 1.5

thats around what 28 million that could be cleared for arbitration raises not counting expiring contracts.

who knows how it all works itself out but they Reds do have the ability to decline a lot of money due to guys.

Cabrera is only making about 2, and has a $1 million buyout. He really doesn't clear much of anything. Gomes is only making $800,000.

I spent a long post on this a while ago. Assuming the Reds let Cabrera and Gomes go, keep Arroyo and Hernandez, and all players go to arbitration the payroll will increase by over $5 million next year.

If you let Arroyo go you do clear up some money next year, but it's only a one year thing (he is gone by 2012 anyway). More players are going to hit arbitration after that, and the young players salaries are going to continue to escalate.

We will certainly get a clearer picture this Winter. Until we know what Cueto and Votto are getting (hopefully long term), it will be very murky. In the mean time the last thing this team should do is go out and sign a Crawford or Werth. If the Reds do that, in 3 years it could be Carl Crawford his merry band of misfits.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:15 PM
What I would really like is for Alonso to be able to play some left but he would without a doubt be a butcher out there.

There is a reason he is back to playing first in AAA.

GIDP
08-27-2010, 02:18 PM
Gomes option for next year is 1.5 million
Cabrera option for next year is 4 million with a 1 million dollar buy out if the Reds decline.

Just ignore me if you hate everything I post so much you want to try to expose any non flaw you see.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 02:25 PM
One good thing the Reds have going for them is a lot of options they can either pick up or decline. A chunk of that money is going to arbitration cases, but they do have the ability to clear a lot of money up if they need to.

Arroyo not being back could clear 11
Harang not being back could clear 10 or so
Ramon not being back could clear 3
Cab clears 3 or something. His contract is weird I'm not sure how his option works
Gomes something like 1.5

thats around what 28 million that could be cleared for arbitration raises not counting expiring contracts.

who knows how it all works itself out but they Reds do have the ability to decline a lot of money due to guys.

The Reds will pick up Arroyo's option for 2011
Harang option will not be picked up for 2011
Ramon will be a tough call
I have a sick feeling they will pick up Orlando's option
Gomes probably won't be back.

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 02:26 PM
Yes I know we are in a heated race for the playoffs, but it is never to soon to look at WHOM Walt should look at for next year. Of the players listed below in positions we need to fill, anyone stick out?

Catchers:

Josh Bard SEA
John Buck TOR
Ramon Hernandez CIN *
Gerald Laird DET
Victor Martinez BOS
Miguel Olivo COL *
A.J. Pierzynski CWS
David Ross ATL
Yorvit Torrealba SD *
Jason Varitek BOS
Gregg Zaun MIL *


SS:

Alex Gonzalez ATL
Cristian Guzman TEX
J.J. Hardy MIN
Omar Infante ATL *
Cesar Izturis BAL
Derek Jeter NYY
Julio Lugo BAL
Jhonny Peralta DET *
Edgar Renteria SF *
Jose Reyes NYM *
Jimmy Rollins PHI *
Ramon Vazquez HOU


Outfield:

Alfredo Amezaga LAD
Frank Catalanotto NYM
Carl Crawford TB
Coco Crisp OAK *
Michael Cuddyer MIN *
David DeJesus KC *
Jody Gerut MIL
Jose Guillen SF
Willie Harris WAS
Brad Hawpe COL *
Austin Kearns NYY
Jason Kubel MIN *
Magglio Ordonez DET *
Marcus Thames NYY
Jayson Werth PHI

Relief Pitchers:

Jeremy Affeldt SF
Grant Balfour TB
Jesse Crain MIN
Scott Downs TOR
Chad Durbin PHI
Kyle Farnsworth ATL
Pedro Feliciano NYM
Jason Frasor TOR
Brian Fuentes LAA *
Chad Gaudin NYY
Matt Guerrier MIN
Aaron Heilman ARZ
Mike Lincoln CIN
Brian Moehler HOU
J.J. Putz CWS
Chad Qualls TB
Jon Rauch MIN
Arthur Rhodes CIN
David Riske MIL *
Mariano Rivera NYY
J.C. Romero PHI *
Bobby Seay DET
Scott Shields LAA
Brian Shouse BOS
Matt Thornton CWS *
Kerry Wood NYY *

Reds 25-man next year:

1B Votto----------$10M
2B Phillips---------$11M
3B Rolen----------$ 8.2M
SS Janish---------$ .45M
C Hanigan--------$ .45M
C Hernandez------$ 3M
INF Cairo----------$ 1M
INF Valaika--------$ .42M
OF Bruce----------$ 5M
OF Stubbs---------$ .42M
OF Heisey---------$ .42M
OF Nix-------------$ .6M
OF Dorn-----------$ .4M

SP Arroyo----------$12.5M
SP Cueto-----------$ 5M
SP Bailey-----------$ .45M
SP Wood-----------$ .42M
SP Leake-----------$ .42M
CL Cordero---------$12.12M
RP Masset----------$ 1.55M
RP Rhodes----------$ 3M
RP Bray-------------$ .5M
RP Chapman--------$ 3.7M
RP Ondrusek--------$ .42M
RP Smith------------$ .42M

Others
Alonso--------------$ 1M
Harang-------------$ 2M buyout
Cabrera------------$ 1M buyout
Volquez------------$ .5M
12 more x $.4M = $ 4.8M
Total Payroll = $91.16M

If they don't unload Cordero somehow, they may not bring back Arroyo. Phillips could be the surprise traded player.

I don't really see them active in free agency at all. And a #1 starter is out of the question with this payroll the way it is.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 02:27 PM
What I would really like is for Alonso to be able to play some left but he would without a doubt be a butcher out there.

Reds already tried that, sent him to AA to try it and it was a failure, he is now back at 1st at AAA.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Gomes option for next year is 1.5 million
Cabrera option for next year is 4 million with a 1 million dollar buy out if the Reds decline.

Just ignore me if you hate everything I post so much you want to try to expose any non flaw you see.

Hell, I didn't even realize it was you.

Stop making posts that need clarification, and I won't need to correct you.

Not paying a guy an option does not clear up money unless you post the total salary for next year with options, state "this is the top end next year," and then "not picking up these options subtracts x amount." You have not done that. I have on multiple occasions. Your posts are simplistic and no where near realistic.

Using their future salary makes is sound like the team saves that money vs. this year. It doesn't.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 02:30 PM
Reds 25-man next year:

1B Votto----------$10M
2B Phillips---------$11M
3B Rolen----------$ 8.2M
SS Janish---------$ .45M
C Hanigan--------$ .45M
C Hernandez------$ 3M
INF Cairo----------$ 1M
INF Valaika--------$ .42M
OF Bruce----------$ 5M
OF Stubbs---------$ .42M
OF Heisey---------$ .42M
OF Nix-------------$ .6M
OF Dorn-----------$ .4M

SP Arroyo----------$12.5M
SP Cueto-----------$ 5M
SP Bailey-----------$ .45M
SP Wood-----------$ .42M
SP Leake-----------$ .42M
CL Cordero---------$12.12M
RP Masset----------$ 1.55M
RP Rhodes----------$ 3M
RP Bray-------------$ .5M
RP Chapman--------$ 3.7M
RP Ondrusek--------$ .42M
RP Smith------------$ .42M

Others
Alonso--------------$ 1M
Harang-------------$ 2M buyout
Cabrera------------$ 1M buyout
Volquez------------$ .5M
12 more x $.4M = $ 4.8M
Total Payroll = $90.16M

If they don't unload Cordero somehow, they may not bring back Arroyo. Phillips could be the surprise traded player.

I don't really see them active in free agency at all. And a #1 starter is out of the question with this payroll the way it is.

Trust me there is no way the Reds don't pick up Bronson's option, he will be back no matter what. Votto won't get 10 million unless the Reds give him a long term deal, at most he might get 6-7 million in arbitration.

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 02:31 PM
Trust me there is no way the Reds don't pick up Bronson's option, he will be back no matter what. Votto won't get 10 million unless the Reds give him a long term deal, at most he might get 6-7 million in arbitration.

Dream on about Votto.

And while I totalled everything up to $91M, my comments pointed out that someone will be the odd man out.......either Phillips, Arroyo or if they can unload Cordero (doubtful). But I don't see the Reds having a $90M+ payroll next season.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:38 PM
Dream on about Votto.

And while I totalled everything up to $91M, my comments pointed out that someone will be the odd man out.......either Phillips, Arroyo or if they can unload Cordero (doubtful). But I don't see the Reds having a $90M+ payroll next season.

We went through the same thing on Votto in another thread. If he gets the MVP then Ryan Howard is the most similar case, and he got $10 million. If he doesn't get the MVP, then it's probably in the $8-9 million range (maybe $10, no one really knows the top end). Of course the Reds probably settle, and we won't know what that will be becuase it will be a multi year deal. That will bring down next years number, but we have no clue how long it will be for. Therefore no idea on the future numbers.

edit: I don't think Bruce gets anywhere near $5 million. Of course I think Volquez gets more than $500,000. Yet overall a good list.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:40 PM
Trust me there is no way the Reds don't pick up Bronson's option, he will be back no matter what. Votto won't get 10 million unless the Reds give him a long term deal, at most he might get 6-7 million in arbitration.

I really think Arroyo will be a budget call. The Reds may go conservative and not bump it much. As much as we all think they should, who knows what they actually do. If they can afford Arroyo, I agree, I think they pick up his option.

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 02:45 PM
1. The fact still remains that Votto, Bruce, and Cueto will all significant raises in arbitration.

2. Their raises may or may not be what I guessed them at. But it won't be significantly more or less than I projected.

3. If the Reds keep those 3 arbitration guys, Phillips, Arroyo, Rolen, and Cordero (highest paid guys).........the payroll will be somewhere between about $87-$92M.

Ain't gonna happen.

Alpha Zero
08-27-2010, 02:47 PM
I don't know that I want the Reds to mess around too much with the free agent market next year. There isn't much out there, so the few top flight guys will command some big bucks. I'd look to trade to fill the Reds' holes since the 40 man is already jammed, and it'll only get worse next year.

I would target Grady Sizemore or Matt Kemp to help in the OF. I'd also try to acquire a front of the rotation starter, but that's probably a pipe dream. I can live with some combination of Cozart, Janish, and Cabrera at SS if the Reds can somehow find a way to plug the holes in the outfield and at the top of the rotation.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 02:51 PM
1. The fact still remains that Votto, Bruce, and Cueto will all significant raises in arbitration.

2. Their raises may or may not be what I guessed them at. But it won't be significantly more or less than I projected.

3. If the Reds keep those 3 arbitration guys, Phillips, Arroyo, Rolen, and Cordero (highest paid guys).........the payroll will be somewhere between about $87-$92M.

Ain't gonna happen.

Ain't gonna happen refers to the payroll getting that high, or FA signing?

I think the Reds can approach the mid 80's for overall payroll. That would be about $10 million more than today (the payroll for the 25 man is less than $75, but I believe the overall is right around $75 million).

As for FA, I agree. Hence why I was looking at very affordable options, and even then I am not sure it's possible.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 03:10 PM
Dream on about Votto.

And while I totalled everything up to $91M, my comments pointed out that someone will be the odd man out.......either Phillips, Arroyo or if they can unload Cordero (doubtful). But I don't see the Reds having a $90M+ payroll next season.

No dream, if Votto goes to arbitration he will end up with around 6-7 million next seaon. He and his agent will ask for 10-11 million, the Reds will counter with 3-4 million and they will meet in the middle around 6-7 million.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Dream on about Votto.

And while I totalled everything up to $91M, my comments pointed out that someone will be the odd man out.......either Phillips, Arroyo or if they can unload Cordero (doubtful). But I don't see the Reds having a $90M+ payroll next season.

Why not, the Twins have a similar fan base and such and have a 90+ million payroll. The Reds tet 80-85 million from MLB before a single ticket/souvinoer or such is sold. I see no reason, especially if the make the playoffs this payroll won't be 90 million or more.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 03:14 PM
I really think Arroyo will be a budget call. The Reds may go conservative and not bump it much. As much as we all think they should, who knows what they actually do. If they can afford Arroyo, I agree, I think they pick up his option.

The Reds can afford Arroyo, they can afford Votto and they can afford to go out and spend money on FA if they want. This team, as with most MLB teams are making millions, so this idea that they can't spend monies on players is a bald face lie.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 03:15 PM
1. The fact still remains that Votto, Bruce, and Cueto will all significant raises in arbitration.

2. Their raises may or may not be what I guessed them at. But it won't be significantly more or less than I projected.

3. If the Reds keep those 3 arbitration guys, Phillips, Arroyo, Rolen, and Cordero (highest paid guys).........the payroll will be somewhere between about $87-$92M.

Ain't gonna happen.

why not?

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
why not?

Bob Castellini

Enuff said.

GIDP
08-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Hell, I didn't even realize it was you.

Stop making posts that need clarification, and I won't need to correct you.

Not paying a guy an option does not clear up money unless you post the total salary for next year with options, state "this is the top end next year," and then "not picking up these options subtracts x amount." You have not done that. I have on multiple occasions. Your posts are simplistic and no where near realistic.

Using their future salary makes is sound like the team saves that money vs. this year. It doesn't.

I just cant handle this nit picking petty responses from you any more. Welcome to my ignore list.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 03:47 PM
Bob Castellini

Enuff said.

When did Bob say he wouldn't spend money?

mound_patrol
08-27-2010, 03:52 PM
I think Hawpe is a pretty perfect target for the Reds for Left. Take a look at his numbers over the last four years and I think it's clear that this year is an aberration. While he doesn't play the best D he can't be any worse than Gomes and left in Cincinnati is pretty small compared to some of the ball parks out west.

His home/road splits aren't that bad but a move to the NL central could help there too. I think he'd be a darn near perfect fit for a team like Cincy to go after while the big boys shell out huge amounts for Crawford and Werth.

Phillips
Heisey/Stubbs
Votto
Rolen
Hawpe
Bruce
Hanigan/Hernandez
Janish/Cozart

I dont see the Reds going after Hawpe. They could have basically had him for nothing right now and passed on him.
I'd love to see Crawford, but just dont see that happening. Werth is a good target but I think he'll be too expensive for his worth. I also like Kubel but think the Twins will pick up his option. Outside of that there isnt really anyone I like as a target in FA. We need to make a trade.

texasdave
08-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Maybe the light finally went on for Wladimir Balentien and the Reds already have the answer in-house.

Kingspoint
08-27-2010, 04:15 PM
Maybe the light finally went on for Wladimir Balentien and the Reds already have the answer in-house.

He's got unreal talent. If it can transfer to the bigs, we have ourselves a winner.

Hey Meat
08-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Jayson Werth PHI IMO

Oh No. After what he did to that fan in that series before the break I wouldn't want him.

mound_patrol
08-27-2010, 04:17 PM
I would love to see Balentien take that spot in left and run with it.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 04:32 PM
The Reds can afford Arroyo, they can afford Votto and they can afford to go out and spend money on FA if they want. This team, as with most MLB teams are making millions, so this idea that they can't spend monies on players is a bald face lie.

They can, but won't. Teams like to make money. It's a business. Business makes profit. As much as you want to scream that can, it doesn't change the fact they won't.

Very few teams like to operate in the red. The Reds are not one of them.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 04:33 PM
I just cant handle this nit picking petty responses from you any more. Welcome to my ignore list.

Thank you, now I can correct your erroneous, ignorant posts and not have to deal with your ignorant responses.

Krawhitham
08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Arroyo would only clear 9 million (2 million buyout)
Arroyo is a bargain at 9 million

Votto will get a 7 year 100 million contract this off season

scott91575
08-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Arroyo would only clear 9 million (2 million buyout)
Arroyo is a bargain at 9 million

Votto will get a 7 year 100 million contract this off season

He does have an escalator on his option that depends on innings pitched. Not sure of the innings, but that could take it to $13 million. Hence the $11 million number.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 05:13 PM
They can, but won't. Teams like to make money. It's a business. Business makes profit. As much as you want to scream that can, it doesn't change the fact they won't.

Very few teams like to operate in the red. The Reds are not one of them.

The Reds can pay all these salaries and still walk home with a chunk of change. They get over 80 million from MLB over what they make off of ticket sales and everything else. These teams make in the 100+ millions, it's time to pay up. If the Twins can afford a 90+ million dollar payroll so can the reds.

bagz
08-27-2010, 05:25 PM
Would be nice, but he is probably going to be a Yankee.

They do have the deepest pockets in baseball but even they have their limits. Jeter will be signed to another big contract and end his career with the Yanks. Crawford would be the one guy I would want to go after. I'd also resign Arroyo.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 05:30 PM
The Reds can pay all these salaries and still walk home with a chunk of change. They get over 80 million from MLB over what they make off of ticket sales and everything else. These teams make in the 100+ millions, it's time to pay up. If the Twins can afford a 90+ million dollar payroll so can the reds.

The Twins averaged 4,000 more per game last year than the Reds this year (Twins are way above the Reds this year). That is 324,000 more in attendance. That may be reduced to 3000 by the end of the year, but still a nice chunk of change (probably around $8-10 million). So thinking the Reds will have about $85-90 million to spend is a very reasonable number.

Who knows what they will decide the budget will be. Just because they can spent it won't mean they will. Just look at Pittsburgh, Florida, Tampa Bay, etc. Yet if they do, don't expect a salary as high as the Twins. Maybe close, but I would very surprised it they jumped to the $95 million+ range.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 05:32 PM
They do have the deepest pockets in baseball but even they have their limits. Jeter will be signed to another big contract and end his career with the Yanks. Crawford would be the one guy I would want to go after. I'd also resign Arroyo.

If they have a limit, I have not seen it. A couple of years ago their payroll was much higher than it is now, plus they have a new ballpark which helps not only with revenue but reduces their revenue sharing number.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 05:46 PM
The Twins averaged 4,000 more per game last year than the Reds this year (Twins are way above the Reds this year). That is 324,000 more in attendance. That may be reduced to 3000 by the end of the year, but still a nice chunk of change (probably around $8-10 million). So thinking the Reds will have about $85-90 million to spend is a very reasonable number.

Who knows what they will decide the budget will be. Just because they can spent it won't mean they will. Just look at Pittsburgh, Florida, Tampa Bay, etc. Yet if they do, don't expect a salary as high as the Twins. Maybe close, but I would very surprised it they jumped to the $95 million+ range.

There is an old business saying...To make money you have to spend money. If "Bob" wants to see more butts in the seat you do that 1 way, you win. We know you can spend and not win, but if the spending is done right (like inking votto to a long term deal) the odds are greater you will win over losing. I am not advocating spending just to spend, but to think the Reds can't handle an increast to the 90 million level just isn't true. "Bob" keeps saying he wants a winner, well "Bob" it's now time to show you mean it.

brm7675
08-27-2010, 05:48 PM
They do have the deepest pockets in baseball but even they have their limits. Jeter will be signed to another big contract and end his career with the Yanks. Crawford would be the one guy I would want to go after. I'd also resign Arroyo.

The one thing I will give the Yankees and the Strienbrenner ownership, it was never about "making" money, it was and will remain about winning. Now they did spend stupidily at times, but there goal is to win, while I do believe a number of team owners could care less about winning and just about making money.

mlh1981
08-27-2010, 06:00 PM
Derek Jeter :cool:

scott91575
08-27-2010, 06:41 PM
There is an old business saying...To make money you have to spend money. If "Bob" wants to see more butts in the seat you do that 1 way, you win. We know you can spend and not win, but if the spending is done right (like inking votto to a long term deal) the odds are greater you will win over losing. I am not advocating spending just to spend, but to think the Reds can't handle an increast to the 90 million level just isn't true. "Bob" keeps saying he wants a winner, well "Bob" it's now time to show you mean it.

I never said they can't, the question is if they will. I don't know their books. Plenty of teams seem to think the most profitable idea in baseball is not to spend money, and that has been proven, to the best of our knowledge, thanks to revenue sharing.

The old adage is sort of true, in order to make money you have to spend money. Yet spending more money does not mean you make more. The Pirates and Marlins spend money, just not a lot of it, and they make a ton of money.

Vottomatic
08-27-2010, 08:46 PM
When did Bob say he wouldn't spend money?

He didn't. But he never has.

And if you read between the lines, you can see that they plan to both be competitive and make money. They weren't willing to add much payroll at the trading deadline this year. Cliff Lee was only making about $6 to $7M this season, and they would have owed about 2 months worth. No big deal there. But reading between the lines you can tell they aren't going to approach $80M in payroll, just because they don't want to.

Can they? Who knows.

Do I wish they would? Yes. I'd love to see them spend $90+M.

I'm just convinced it won't happen. That is MY OPINION.

NeilHamburger
08-28-2010, 12:56 AM
The Reds are at a point were they are almost going to have to deal some of the prospects like Alonso and one of the arms (Bailey, Leake, Wood, Volquez) if they keep Arroyo.

Personally, I think they keep Arroyo for his vet. presence on an otherwise very young staff.

I think they package Alonso and one of the young arms for a stud type LF.

One very interesting team in my opinion is Arizona. They desperatly need pitching, and at this point have to be willing to move some pieces.

I wonder if an Alonso, Burton and Bailey/Volquez for Justin Upton proposal would have any legs.

bshall2105
08-28-2010, 12:58 AM
The Reds are at a point were they are almost going to have to deal some of the prospects like Alonso and one of the arms (Bailey, Leake, Wood, Volquez) if they keep Arroyo.

Personally, I think they keep Arroyo for his vet. presence on an otherwise very young staff.

I think they package Alonso and one of the young arms for a stud type LF.

One very interesting team in my opinion is Arizona. They desperatly need pitching, and at this point have to be willing to move some pieces.

I wonder if an Alonso, Burton and Bailey/Volquez for Justin Upton proposal would have any legs.

Justin Upton has a massive contract that he just signed. There would be no way to keep Arroyo if we're taking on Upton.

NeilHamburger
08-28-2010, 01:07 AM
I'm just talking about picking up Arroyo's option. After next year I fully expect Cueto, Leake, Wood, Chapman and either Bailey or Volquez to make out the rotation.

Upton signed a 6 year 51 million dollar deal. He doesn't get expensive until 2013.

He gets a $1.25 million signing bonus, half on April 15 and the rest on July 15. He receives salaries of $500,000 this year, $4.25 million in 2011, $6.75 million in 2012, $9.75 million in 2013, $14.25 million in 2014 and $14.5 million in 2015.


Near the end of the deal you would probably need to make some tough decisions, but the Reds would have about a 3 year window of potential awesomeness.

GIDP
08-28-2010, 01:13 AM
Upton is the Dbacks Jay Bruce. I honestly cant see them dealing him at least for another few years.

NeilHamburger
08-28-2010, 01:17 AM
Yeah, I don't have any idea if the Dback's would move him.

But, depending on how Bailey does down the stretch I'd have to imagine, Alonso, Bailey and any reliever in the system not named Chapman would at least get them to listen. Especially if Bailey is lights out.

bshall2105
08-28-2010, 01:38 AM
Yeah, I don't have any idea if the Dback's would move him.

But, depending on how Bailey does down the stretch I'd have to imagine, Alonso, Bailey and any reliever in the system not named Chapman would at least get them to listen. Especially if Bailey is lights out.

I don't think Bailey is the guy I would want to get rid of. I'd trade Leake or Wood before Homer just based on potential. I think Bailey could be a very solid #2 some time soon.

Old NDN
08-30-2010, 11:17 AM
He's not on your original list, but I would take a serious look at Brandon Webb. I know he's had surgery and on the mend, but he's a definite TOR guy, if/when he's healthy. Maybe an incentive-laden deal close to home might get him.

GIDP
08-30-2010, 11:36 AM
He's not on your original list, but I would take a serious look at Brandon Webb. I know he's had surgery and on the mend, but he's a definite TOR guy, if/when he's healthy. Maybe an incentive-laden deal close to home might get him.

I think its a very strong possibility that the Reds give him a look. He has said he wants to play near his home, and honestly only Cincinnati is within driving distance.

Old NDN
09-01-2010, 09:02 AM
For the first time in a long time, Cincinnati could become a serious contender for free agents. This year's success, nucleus of young talent, veteran leaders (players and management), would be attractive. I know, money is always the deal maker. But, most players also want to play where they have the best chance to win. Right now, the Reds have to be high on that list. Cincy could become a destination instead of a stopover. Man, that would be big-time (as Dusty might say).