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View Full Version : Say it ain't so.. Harang might start on 8/31



sivman17
08-27-2010, 08:03 PM
John Fay reports that Baker said Harang might start next Tuesday against Milwaukee. I know it's Milwaukee, but still. I can't believe he is going to let him start.

I realize Leake is done and Volquez has been awful, but I would much rather pitch Maloney, who's 4-3 with a 3.16 ERA in his last 10 starts.

In two starts at AAA, Harang is 0-2 with a whopping 9.00 ERA.

Here's the link
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/08/27/harang-may-start-831-other-updates/

UPRedsFan
08-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Let's have faith in our opening day starter shall we?

But Dusty needs to have Lecure rested just in case.

New York Red
08-27-2010, 10:45 PM
Harang won a lot of games for some bad Reds teams, so now that we're chasing a division title he deserves a chance to start a game. But I can see both sides of the debate. I don't like that he'll be starting against the Brew Crew, a team that hits a lot of dingers.

Boston Red
08-27-2010, 10:50 PM
Doesn't bother me. Harang is serviceable. He generally goes relatively deep and gives the team a chance to win. Not bad if he's the fifth best starter.

Eric the Red
08-27-2010, 10:57 PM
Given the beating our staff took in San Fran, I think the Reds brass realizes the significance of keeping the pitchers fresh. By giving Harang a start they give some guys another day of rest while giving him a chance to prove himself. Granted, he was terrible in Louisville but if healthy he can get hitters out.

scott91575
08-27-2010, 11:47 PM
Doesn't make me feel good about the rotation, and for 1 start, ok, but if he gets rocked I hope they don't keep rolling him out there.

R_Webb18
08-28-2010, 12:15 AM
they said today there trying to change the pitching order for cards series. so my question is this for good or 1 game thing?

JKam
08-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Given the beating our staff took in San Fran, I think the Reds brass realizes the significance of keeping the pitchers fresh.

There is a fine line between keeping guys fresh and keeping them sharp.

I hypothesize that part of Leake's melt down late this season is not only hitting a wall, but also because he was not getting regular work. It is hard to keep guys sharp if they aren't taking the ball every 5 or 6 days. Volquez's arm is certainly fresh, but as we have witnessed, he's not sharp.

We have fresh arms - Bailey, Harang and Volquez - but we need some sharp arms.

It was refreshing to see Cueto pitch tonight. He was dealing tonight. His fastball look crisp and his sinker was tight. Maybe the one missed start let him rest his arm a little bit. Brantley was mentioning that he was working on his mechanics after his last disastrous start.

At any rate, management has to balance fresh with sharp. Let's hope Harang comes back fresh and sharp.

DocRed
08-28-2010, 12:57 AM
I have more confidence in Harang than Volquez, Leake....maybe even Wood at this point.

NeilHamburger
08-28-2010, 01:09 AM
I really don't see the problem in giving Harang one shot. He would be replacing Volquez, he of the 6.00 plus era since he came up over a month ago.

If he gets lit up then at least you gave him a chance, it's a classy thing to do for someone who held the team's pitching (as bad as it still was) at least somewhat together for years.

Those 05-08 years were my college years. Me and my friends used to go to games on Harang days because even if the Reds didn't win, at least they'd be in it.

I know a lot of people here will think it's stupid, but I don't. He's earned one shot at playing for something with the Reds. Let's face it, after this year he's gone.

Besides, how awesome would it be if he had one more month of good baseball left in his arm, and he just let it all fly.



With all that said, if Volquez was pitching lights out of course you don't start him. But, he's not. And maybe harang has another couple quality starts in him.

Hey Meat
08-28-2010, 01:09 AM
Harang was not as bad as the last two years before he hit the DL this year. I think he will be ok. We all know he is no longer a # 1 starter, but he would be a decent 4 or 5 right now. Volquez looks terrible and Leake is done. Give him one shot and if it doesn't pan out send him to the pen.

NeilHamburger
08-28-2010, 01:17 AM
I'm not usually one to just give a veteran something just because of the past (I hated Griffey still hitting 3rd past 07).

But, if your options are Volquez, LeCure, Maloney or Harang. I really don't see how anyone could be that upset about giving Harang one shot considering what he's meant to this team.

arkimadee
08-28-2010, 01:20 AM
Harang being the fifth starter doesnt bother me... although i think that you have to give volquez one more chance against a bad cubs team.. lets face it.. the giants were red hot and beat the crap out of everyone.. just one of those things... now lets see volquez against the cubs and if he gets beat up, take him out of the rotation

texasdave
08-28-2010, 01:21 AM
I would have to agree with some of the previous posters. Harang deserves a start. And I am not a big believer in Aaron Harang at this point in his career.

Krawhitham
08-28-2010, 02:06 AM
Harang won a lot of games for some bad Reds teams, so now that we're chasing a division title he deserves a chance to start a game.

and if they miss the playoffs by one game will you still feel he deserved a chance?

RedsFanInBama
08-28-2010, 03:52 AM
If you look at his starts in June before he went on the DL, Harang actually wasn't doing that badly. I can't stand watching him pitch, though. He's so slow out there.

mlh1981
08-28-2010, 11:26 AM
He's good enough to be in this rotation.

I think he knows what's at stake, not only for the team, but for himself personally.

New York Red
08-28-2010, 12:37 PM
and if they miss the playoffs by one game will you still feel he deserved a chance?
Yes. Mainly because we could use a fresh arm right now, even if it's only one game. If we miss the playoffs, it won't be because of one game on August 31.

sivman17
08-28-2010, 12:41 PM
I agree with the point that he has been the Reds awhile and has given us a couple solid seasons, and it'd be a little unfair to not let him be a part of it now that we are finally on the verge of something good this year. However, Baker is the one who said at this point in the season you don't worry about hurting feelings. You put the best players out there each and every day. We all know that's not how Baker operates, though, even if he says that.

But all in all, I guess it's not the end of the world to let him pitch. Especially with how we have had some rocky outings by our starters recently.

sivman17
08-28-2010, 12:43 PM
In 11 of his last 13 starts before getting injured, he went at least 6 innings and gave up 3 or fewer runs in 9 of those 13 starts. If he can give us a quality start against Milwaukee, he will have done his job. We can't expect much more than that from him at this point in his career.

Barney
08-28-2010, 02:08 PM
Krawhitam asked, "and if they miss the playoffs by one game will you still feel he deserved a chance?"

My question is, if we miss the playoffs by one game, why would that single game be identified as the one that Harang just pitched? After all, there have been at least 52 other losses. Just wondering!!!

abish1572
08-28-2010, 02:56 PM
:no: I think the harrang era is done. He simply just can't get batters out witout giving up big hits.

Caveman Techie
08-28-2010, 03:03 PM
I don't have a problem with Harang getting the chance to prove he still has what it takes. Now if he gets rocked I would expect Dusty to be quick with the hook and I wouldn't expect him to get another shot the rest of the year.

Harang should know this is his last shot with the Reds and he should be pitching to find a job next year (for another team). I hope he can find some of that old magic and help push the Reds over the top this year and I would really like for him to be a part of it just because of what he has done for this team in the past.

knoonan991
08-28-2010, 03:20 PM
I do NOT like this if it happens, Harang has been pretty bad for the better part of two years. It has nothing to do with coming off an injury, it's more him just not being a very effective pitcher. I could understand a role in the bullpen, but having him start is not a good idea when we have five other capable starting pitchers.

I know people are concerned over Volquez, but the guy has shown this year that he can still give solid outings. Coming off Tommy John, we probably have had unrealistic expectations for the former Cy Young candidate. I think giving Volquez the opportunity to put it all together before the post season is the best option, because Volquez at his best is clearly better than Harang at his best (unless he can somehow return to his old form).

If Harang comes back and pitches well, I will gladly eat crow, but does anyone get excited thinking about Harang in the post season? I know I sure don't.

malcontent
08-28-2010, 04:23 PM
At least we know Harang's not going to threaten to walk the bases loaded like EV did every game.

He's always around the plate with his *stuff*. Hopefully the opposition has forgotten that simple fact.

LeDoux
08-28-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm not usually one to just give a veteran something just because of the past (I hated Griffey still hitting 3rd past 07).

But, if your options are Volquez, LeCure, Maloney or Harang. I really don't see how anyone could be that upset about giving Harang one shot considering what he's meant to this team.

Why is Maloney a bad option for an emergency 5th? I am not opposed to Harang getting a start, but I would think you would have Maloney ready to jump in on a second's notice.

GIDP
08-28-2010, 05:33 PM
Harang it pitching against the brewers to get Cueto away from the Cardinal series.

Not worth risking the Cardinals trying to hurt cueto.

RedsLvr
08-28-2010, 05:39 PM
Harang it pitching against the brewers to get Cueto away from the Cardinal series.

Not worth risking the Cardinals trying to hurt cueto.

Or maybe we let the Cardinals try to hurt Cueto so a few of their key players get suspended in their hardest stretch of the season. ;)

GIDP
08-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Or maybe we let the Cardinals try to hurt Cueto so a few of their key players get suspended in their hardest stretch of the season. ;)

We need Cueto more than the Cardinals need a couple crappy releivers.

roby
08-28-2010, 06:27 PM
There is a fine line between keeping guys fresh and keeping them sharp.

I hypothesize that part of Leake's melt down late this season is not only hitting a wall, but also because he was not getting regular work. It is hard to keep guys sharp if they aren't taking the ball every 5 or 6 days. Volquez's arm is certainly fresh, but as we have witnessed, he's not sharp.

We have fresh arms - Bailey, Harang and Volquez - but we need some sharp arms.

It was refreshing to see Cueto pitch tonight. He was dealing tonight. His fastball look crisp and his sinker was tight. Maybe the one missed start let him rest his arm a little bit. Brantley was mentioning that he was working on his mechanics after his last disastrous start.

At any rate, management has to balance fresh with sharp. Let's hope Harang comes back fresh and sharp.

Excellent post. I doubt that Harang does well. Trying to coddle his feelings is only going to complcate the problems for the other starters. I say, stay in Louisville until you can get it right!

Roush's socks
08-28-2010, 11:09 PM
He's good enough to be in this rotation.

I think he knows what's at stake, not only for the team, but for himself personally.

Agree. If he wants to get a contract next year after the Reds let him walk, he has to show something before the end of the season. He has all the financial motive in the world to have a good start. So let's see what happens.

BRM13
08-29-2010, 01:49 AM
Agree. If he wants to get a contract next year after the Reds let him walk, he has to show something before the end of the season. He has all the financial motive in the world to have a good start. So let's see what happens.

He's had plenty of financial motive for a while. I think he just has lost some of the control in the strike zone he once had. He needed that to pitch effectively with his stuff.

I hope has a good game in him Tuesday because I'll be there. :D

Kingspoint
08-29-2010, 07:21 PM
Harang deserves absolutely nothing.

He has no business making a start for the REDS this season.

He's such a negative for the team, he needs to not sniff the field again.

Kingspoint
08-29-2010, 07:22 PM
I hope Harang has a horrible game, doesn't get anybody out and goes back on the DL. It's the only way to ensure that he doesn't pitch any more games.

RedsFanInBama
08-29-2010, 07:26 PM
I hope Harang has a horrible game, doesn't get anybody out and goes back on the DL. It's the only way to ensure that he doesn't pitch any more games.
I find it hard to believe this would be the attitude of a Reds fan. Amazing, really.

Caveman Techie
08-29-2010, 07:42 PM
Kingspoint has some weird obsession with Harang hate. It's one of the few subjects I wish I had a conditional ignore statement for.

If Poster = Kingspoint and Subject = Harang
Then goto Ignore.

On all other subjects though I do enjoy reading his analysis and insight into.

malcontent
08-29-2010, 08:38 PM
Why is Maloney a bad option for an emergency 5th? I am not opposed to Harang getting a start, but I would think you would have Maloney ready to jump in on a second's notice.
I really don't know, other than it seems like he's always the low man when it comes to the depth chart.

I know a lotta posters think he's a AAAA guy, but when he's started for the Reds he hasn't really been blown up.

scott91575
08-29-2010, 09:06 PM
I really don't know, other than it seems like he's always the low man when it comes to the depth chart.

I know a lotta posters think he's a AAAA guy, but when he's started for the Reds he hasn't really been blown up.

There were a couple of starts last year where he got blown up, and he has given up 10 HR's in just over 50 innings in the majors.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 11:10 PM
Harangs last 13 starts before the DL had a 4.12 ERA.

That honestly is pretty darn similar to what Arroyo has given the Reds this year.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 12:27 AM
Does Harang's two rehab starts in AAA scare anyone? Seems like people aren't really talking about that.

Should we just ignore them like they never happened?

GIDP
08-30-2010, 12:30 AM
Its rehab but they do kinda worry me. They also dont because he likely will have the better D behind him up north.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 12:32 AM
Although Volquez was lights out in his rehab at AAA and we all see what he's done up here. Maybe Harang will be the bizzaro Volquez.

Kingspoint
08-30-2010, 12:38 AM
I guarantee that when Harang has his next start, he will give up at least 1 homerun, and 4 other Extra-Base hits, to go along with at least 4 Runs, while lasting no more than 6.0 innings.

There is nothing left in him, and he's never been a good pitcher mentally, in order to overcome any short-comings in his abilities.

Also, for every 1 out he records on the Ground, he'll record 3 outs in the Air (those that stay in the yard or don't go gapping for a Double or Triple).

I wish it wasn't true. It is what it is.

That said, I like how Walt Jockety does things, and he's got to take at least one look at Harang to see if he has the mental capacity to "step it up". I believe he has little faith that Harang will, but it's always worth a chance to give a Veteran a shot. With a 5-game lead, Walt can roll the dice once (or twice) with Harang this month. He's playing with fire, but at the same time, September is a tryout for Walt to find his best 25 players for the playoffs. Harang, he feels, has to be given one more look.

Walt's a smart man, and if Harang fails in back-to-back starts, I think he'll pull him from the lineup and not let him go again (unless we still have a 5-game lead, and he feels that Harang was so-so, and he wants to get, yet again, one more look).

The bottom-line, the bigger picture, is that Walt's going to pick the best 25-man roster for the playoffs. Whether that's Harang or not, has yet to be determined.

roby
08-30-2010, 01:06 AM
Yes. Mainly because we could use a fresh arm right now, even if it's only one game. If we miss the playoffs, it won't be because of one game on August 31.

If we miss the playoffs by one game it might!

texasdave
08-30-2010, 01:30 AM
Harang's last rehab start was the 20th. Now an 11-day layoff before his start on Tuesday. Yikes.

swaisuc
08-30-2010, 10:15 AM
We need Cueto more than the Cardinals need a couple crappy releivers.

The whole idea that the Cardinals would try to hurt Cueto is way overblown IMO, but lets say you believe that. Thinking that Cueto outlasts guys like Carpenter, Wainwright and Garcia by enough to actually be left in to bat against STL relievers is pretty optimistic.

GIDP
08-30-2010, 10:19 AM
The whole idea that the Cardinals would try to hurt Cueto is way overblown IMO, but lets say you believe that. Thinking that Cueto outlasts guys like Carpenter, Wainwright and Garcia by enough to actually be left in to bat against STL relievers is pretty optimistic.

I think they would take a suspension to knock out Cueto for the year no matter the pitcher especially if they are looking at a 5+ game lead in the division.

swaisuc
08-30-2010, 11:51 AM
I think they would take a suspension to knock out Cueto for the year no matter the pitcher especially if they are looking at a 5+ game lead in the division.

Unfortunately we probably will never know, but I think that is a huge reach.

Also, if the Cards actually did intentionally injure Cueto after all of the buildup and warnings for this series, that player (99% would have to be Carpenter, Wainwright, Garcia facing him) is going to get a way bigger suspension than Cueto got.

When is the last time you saw a team come into a game determined to actually injure a player and then went out and did it?

Old NDN
08-30-2010, 12:20 PM
Given the beating our staff took in San Fran, I think the Reds brass realizes the significance of keeping the pitchers fresh. By giving Harang a start they give some guys another day of rest while giving him a chance to prove himself. Granted, he was terrible in Louisville but if healthy he can get hitters out.

He definitely should have a well-rested arm. Let's hope it can be effective.

New York Red
08-30-2010, 12:42 PM
That said, I like how Walt Jockety does things, and he's got to take at least one look at Harang to see if he has the mental capacity to "step it up". I believe he has little faith that Harang will, but it's always worth a chance to give a Veteran a shot. With a 5-game lead, Walt can roll the dice once (or twice) with Harang this month. He's playing with fire, but at the same time, September is a tryout for Walt to find his best 25 players for the playoffs. Harang, he feels, has to be given one more look.

Walt's a smart man, and if Harang fails in back-to-back starts, I think he'll pull him from the lineup and not let him go again (unless we still have a 5-game lead, and he feels that Harang was so-so, and he wants to get, yet again, one more look).

The bottom-line, the bigger picture, is that Walt's going to pick the best 25-man roster for the playoffs. Whether that's Harang or not, has yet to be determined.
I think that sums it up perfectly. We're in a position to give Harang a shot and that's all it is. If he pitches well he'll likely get another start. If he doesn't pitch well, he'll likely go to the bullpen for an occasional long relief outing. Either way, Harang adds a fresh arm right now, which is something all teams could use in September. This may or may not work out well, but it's something the Reds have to try, IMO.

Red Rover
08-30-2010, 04:39 PM
Just a question reguarding Harang and the August 31 trade deadline line, What time is the official cut off 4PM or midnight? Could he still be traded after his start?

brm7675
08-30-2010, 04:47 PM
you have to look at those AAA numbers a bit. We don't know what his objective was in those games. Maybe he was working on his mechanics or such. We have to see what we have with him and doing it against milwaukee isn't a bad idea.

Kingspoint
08-30-2010, 09:26 PM
you have to look at those AAA numbers a bit. We don't know what his objective was in those games. Maybe he was working on his mechanics or such. We have to see what we have with him and doing it against milwaukee isn't a bad idea.

Louisville was in the thick of a pennant race. You're trying to teach your young guys "how to win" and part of that is to give everything you've got at a time like this.

Hopefully, Harang's only objective was to "win", otherwise, he shouldn't have been out there and should have been in AA, instead.