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Reds Fanatic
08-27-2010, 11:26 PM
According to this article from Hal McCoy the Reds may start Harang on Tuesday August 31st. The title of the article says Wednesday but the story is talking about him being back Tuesday and then being eligible for postseason.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2010/08/27/the_tv_camera_lights_clicked.html

kaldaniels
08-27-2010, 11:31 PM
My favorite Red during the 05 to 08 era. I give him one chance to show me what he's got next week...he's earned it.

Tornon
08-27-2010, 11:36 PM
Who would we be bumping? Volquez?

WMR
08-27-2010, 11:37 PM
How amazing would it be if he came back looking like his old self...

redsfandan
08-27-2010, 11:37 PM
How amazing would it be if he came back looking like his old self...
I'd love to see it. That would be huge right now.

mbgrayson
08-28-2010, 12:02 AM
With Leake going on the DL, and Volquez struggling of late, Aaron Harang putting up a quality start would be huge.

Good luck Aaron!

steig
08-28-2010, 12:07 AM
It would be nice to see him have at least one decent start in Louisville first. His stats on rehab just aren't good enough to bring him back before he is ready. Even if he is ready I don't see him being a post season pitcher i would want to throw out there, he just isn't the same pitcher anymore.

Danny Serafini
08-28-2010, 12:13 AM
According to this article from Hal McCoy the Reds may start Harang on Tuesday August 31st. The title of the article says Wednesday but the story is talking about him being back Tuesday and then being eligible for postseason.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2010/08/27/the_tv_camera_lights_clicked.html

He'd be eligible for the postseason regardless. Players on the DL are eligible.

reds44
08-28-2010, 12:14 AM
How can anybody think this is a good idea? He's getting lit up in AAA right now.

VR
08-28-2010, 12:24 AM
I give him one chance to show me what he's got next week...he's earned it.

There you have it folks. The Reds can afford to give Harang a start, any quality organization is going to do that in August.

RedsMan3203
08-28-2010, 12:28 AM
Rather it be Tuesday than Friday-Sunday... But it seems like if he does start on Tuesday he will fall in line for the start on Sunday.

Brutus
08-28-2010, 12:40 AM
How can anybody think this is a good idea? He's getting lit up in AAA right now.

10 strikeouts, 2 walks and 1 homer allowed in 11 innings.

That's not exactly getting 'lit up' by most people's standards.

If you want to stretch it to say he has a fluke .382 BABIP in an extremely small sample and that, because of that, 62 percent of the baserunners he allowed scored in those 11 innings... well OK then. But lit up? That's something that is absolutely unsupported.

reds44
08-28-2010, 12:50 AM
10 strikeouts, 2 walks and 1 homer allowed in 11 innings.

That's not exactly getting 'lit up' by most people's standards.

If you want to stretch it to say he has a fluke .382 BABIP in an extremely small sample and that, because of that, 62 percent of the baserunners he allowed scored in those 11 innings... well OK then. But lit up? That's something that is absolutely unsupported.
It's not unsupported. I've been hearing about Harang's unlucky BABIP for two years now. The fact of the matter is he makes some God awful pitches and he doesn't get away with it.

He's made two starts:
6 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
6 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 0 BB, 5 K

A 9 ERA in AAA is getting lit up by anyone's standard's.

By comparison, Volquez had a 1.96 ERA in AAA in 23 innings while giving up 11 hits, walking 8, and striking out 21.

There's no reason to replace Volquez with Harang right now.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 12:54 AM
It's not unsupported. I've been hearing about Harang's unlucky BABIP for two years now. The fact of the matter is he makes some God awful pitches and he doesn't get away with it.

He's made two starts:
6 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
6 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 0 BB, 5 K

A 9 ERA in AAA is getting lit up by anyone's standard's.

By comparison, Volquez had a 1.96 ERA in AAA in 23 innings while giving up 11 hits, walking 8, and striking out 21.

There's no reason to replace Volquez with Harang right now.

I would argue that the San Francisco performance would dictate that we replace Volquez with my kid sister. Thats a stretch of course, but you've gotta at least concede Volquez is struggling mightly. To which I say, lets give Aaron one last go-round.

reds44
08-28-2010, 12:55 AM
I would argue that the San Francisco performance would dictate that we replace Volquez with my kid sister. Thats a stretch of course, but you've gotta at least concede Volquez is struggling mightly. To which I say, lets give Aaron one last go-round.
No doubt, I just don't think Harang is the answer to any question right now.

Brutus
08-28-2010, 12:55 AM
It's not unsupported. I've been hearing about Harang's unlucky BABIP for two years now. The fact of the matter is he makes some God awful pitches and he doesn't get away with it.

He's made two starts:
6 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
6 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 0 BB, 5 K

A 9 ERA in AAA is getting lit up by anyone's standard's.

By comparison, Volquez had a 1.96 ERA in AAA in 23 innings while giving up 11 hits, walking 8, and striking out 21.

There's no reason to replace Volquez with Harang right now.

And ERA, especially in two starts, is an absolutely horrible... horrible way to judge a pitcher. Especially in that small a sample, it has absolutely no predictive value. None. You're just as well off using wins and losses.

BTW, yes, Harang has always supported a slightly inflated BABIP (though he's previously played on some bad defenses). But even .382 would be 50 points higher than anyone would be expected to sustain. And it's extremely even more rare to see anyone deviate more than 10 points higher or lower than a 72% strand rate for any period of time.

Bottom line: using earned runs in two starts in the minors... worthless. Absolutely worthless.

VR
08-28-2010, 12:59 AM
It's not unsupported. I've been hearing about Harang's unlucky BABIP for two years now. The fact of the matter is he makes some God awful pitches and he doesn't get away with it.

He's made two starts:
6 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 2 BB, 5 K
6 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 0 BB, 5 K

A 9 ERA in AAA is getting lit up by anyone's standard's.

By comparison, Volquez had a 1.96 ERA in AAA in 23 innings while giving up 11 hits, walking 8, and striking out 21.

There's no reason to replace Volquez with Harang right now.

It's typically not a good idea to look only at stats when evaluating a pitcher who is down in the minors on rehab. They are often working with a differenct set of parameters that they would be in the majors. Fine tuning breaking pitches etc.

It just isn't a good judge.....I'd rather hear what Ted Power, Aaron Harang and the scouts have to say about his form etc.

CTA513
08-28-2010, 01:00 AM
I like Volquez upside but hes made 8 starts and 5 of those have been 5 innings or less.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 01:03 AM
There's a middle ground here people. I'll be the first to say a top-notch EV is better than a top-notch Harang at this point. Can we not afford to give Harang one start to evaluate him vs. major leaguers...he was our opening day pitcher this year for crying out loud. (Spare the Arroyo comebacker) One start. All I ask. Harang has always been a bulldog type pitcher...he just might, just might be able to reach back for something. And if not, its one game. Volquez ain't exactly tearing it up right now.

Danny Serafini
08-28-2010, 01:11 AM
Giving him a start to see what he has probably isn't a bad idea. Giving him that start on 8/31 instead of 9/1 is stupid. By activating him a day early it forces another pitcher off the 25 man roster and reduces the number of playoff eligible pitchers by one. His start can wait one day.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 01:14 AM
Giving him a start to see what he has probably isn't a bad idea. Giving him that start on 8/31 instead of 9/1 is stupid. By activating him a day early it forces another pitcher off the 25 man roster and reduces the number of playoff eligible pitchers by one. His start can wait one day.

If it's Sam "Mr. 1-2-3 9th" LeCure sent down, will that upset you?

sabometrics
08-28-2010, 01:18 AM
I'm not really excited about this possibility, but then again I'm not excited to see Volquez go out there and implode again.

Danny Serafini
08-28-2010, 01:23 AM
If it's Sam "Mr. 1-2-3 9th" LeCure sent down, will that upset you?

I wouldn't exactly shed tears, but wouldn't it be smarter to have an extra guy eligible than not eligible? You never know, there might be some injuries in that last month that make LeCure a higher priority than he is now. Probably not, but why needlessly burn a spot?

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 01:27 AM
I wouldn't exactly shed tears, but wouldn't it be smarter to have an extra guy eligible than not eligible? You never know, there might be some injuries in that last month that make LeCure a higher priority than he is now. Probably not, but why needlessly burn a spot?

And the difference I suppose is that today, I would choose Harang over LeCure for October if we are discussing those 2 players.

Danny Serafini
08-28-2010, 01:36 AM
And the difference I suppose is that today, I would choose Harang over LeCure for October if we are discussing those 2 players.

So would I. I'm just saying, it makes more sense to have both eligible, just in case, than only one. There's no pressing need to have Harang pitch on the 31st instead of the 1st.

Cedric
08-28-2010, 01:37 AM
So would I. I'm just saying, it makes more sense to have both eligible, just in case, than only one. There's no pressing need to have Harang pitch on the 31st instead of the 1st.

How would Harang be eligible if he didn't pitch before the 1st? There are only 2 possible exempt roster spots and Chapman has one already used on Sep 1.

VR
08-28-2010, 01:38 AM
How would Harang be eligible if he didn't pitch before the 1st? There are only 2 possible exempt roster spots and Chapman has one already used on Sep 1.

If you are on the DL....you are eligible.

Cedric
08-28-2010, 01:41 AM
If you are on the DL....you are eligible.

Only a player on the 60 day DL can be replaced by another player on the 40 man roster who plays same position.

sabometrics
08-28-2010, 01:43 AM
Yes, but any player on either the 15 day or 60 day DL is still playoff eligible. You are correct that only 60 day-ers can be replaced though.

Brutus
08-28-2010, 01:44 AM
Only a player on the 60 day DL can be replaced by another player on the 40 man roster who plays same position.

You can only be replaced if you're on the 60-man, but you're still eligible to be used (instead of someone on the 25-man roster) if you're on the 15-day DL.

Cedric
08-28-2010, 01:45 AM
You can only be replaced if you're on the 60-man, but you're still eligible to be used (instead of someone on the 25-man roster) if you're on the 15-day DL.

That's obviously true. I don't know what I was thinking in the above two posts.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 01:47 AM
That's obviously true. I don't know what I was thinking in the above two posts.

I'm in this camp as well.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 01:50 AM
The more I think about this, the more I think McCoy messed up the facts (the title does say Wednesday).

Captain Hook
08-28-2010, 04:00 AM
I thought we might have seen the last of Harang in Cincinnati but looks like he'll get one last chance.If he does well then who knows.With the potential playoff rotation being far from a lock, one good month from just about anyone could have them starting playoff games or even game 1 of the world series.RZ would melt down.

fearofpopvol1
08-28-2010, 04:45 AM
I feel more confident in Harang than I do Volquez right now. Aaron deserves the start for sure. I hope he does well. We're going to need all the arms we can get for the month of September.

mth123
08-28-2010, 06:29 AM
I think the purpose here is to push everyone back a day to set-up Cueto for the St. Louis Series. I doubt that anyone is skipped.

I agree that the 1st would be better than the 31st to maximize post-season eligibility. It also allows the Reds to have a couple extra guys handy with the expanded roster if Harang is toast by the 3rd inning.

oneupper
08-28-2010, 09:01 AM
The best situation for Harang is against a low-slugging team in a large ballpark.

Against the Brewers at GABP doesn't fit the bill. :eek:

nate
08-28-2010, 09:30 AM
Harang's pitched 11 innings in AAA with nice peripherals:

K/9: 8.18, BB/9: 1.64, HR/9: 0.82

Which are all more or less in line with his career numbers if not slightly better. It _is_ 11 so it's hard to say but if you're looking at a pitcher on rehab, one would desire numbers like this rather than poor numbers.

ERA and hits involve the defense so they're not an definitive indicator of him getting "lit up."

In any event, I'd rather have Harang out there than the current incarnation of Volquez.

redsmetz
08-28-2010, 09:35 AM
Regardless of how Aaron does in this final month, he's in his final days with the Reds. They won't pick up his option; he's been up and down performance wise and, more important, there's no room for him in next season's rotation. There are younger and better pitchers ahead of him. Come season's close, it will be "thanks alot" and his buyout.

Question for anyone who may have seen Harang's 2nd game at AAA. How did he look physically? In his first outing, he wasn't driving with his legs and some pitches looked flat. I like that folks see his peripherals as good, but I've wonder if physical mechanics were better in the 2nd game.

Redsfan320
08-28-2010, 10:02 AM
I'm terrified. I never want to see AH in a Reds uniform again. Sorry,

320

mth123
08-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Harang's pitched 11 innings in AAA with nice peripherals:

K/9: 8.18, BB/9: 1.64, HR/9: 0.82

Which are all more or less in line with his career numbers if not slightly better. It _is_ 11 so it's hard to say but if you're looking at a pitcher on rehab, one would desire numbers like this rather than poor numbers.

ERA and hits involve the defense so they're not an definitive indicator of him getting "lit up."

In any event, I'd rather have Harang out there than the current incarnation of Volquez.

People in the minor league forum reported that it wasn't good. The opposition was hitting the ball very hard and even the outs were crushed. IIRC, Goya was at the game and said Harang's performance was worse than his numbers.
Perhaps he can chime in and verify or correct me.

nate
08-28-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm terrified. I never want to see AH in a Reds uniform again. Sorry,

320

I'm terrified of Volquez starting at this point.

_Sir_Charles_
08-28-2010, 12:11 PM
10 strikeouts, 2 walks and 1 homer allowed in 11 innings.

That's not exactly getting 'lit up' by most people's standards.

If you want to stretch it to say he has a fluke .382 BABIP in an extremely small sample and that, because of that, 62 percent of the baserunners he allowed scored in those 11 innings... well OK then. But lit up? That's something that is absolutely unsupported.

I agree. The ERA looks bad, but the peripherals look solid. And besides, it was a rehab assignment. Who knows what he was working on.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 12:35 PM
And even in audtioning as a starter this week, he is probably just a long man for the playoffs...unless Harang is lights-out, don't worry...our playoff rotation is Bronson,Johnny,Homer,Wood (no particular order there). If Aaron or EV wants to step up...thats a good thing, right?

mth123
08-28-2010, 12:46 PM
And even in audtioning as a starter this week, he is probably just a long man for the playoffs...unless Harang is lights-out, don't worry...our playoff rotation is Bronson,Johnny,Homer,Wood (no particular order there). If Aaron or EV wants to step up...thats a good thing, right?

Homer is rehabbing and iffy. Cueto and Wood are going to be in uncharted waters from an innings standpoint. Who knows if they'll be effective? Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Wood isn't exactly a lights out advantage going into the post-season. Lots of questions and we need them all to be answered positively. I'm sure it won't all go bad, but we need pretty much all of it to go well come play-off time. It would be nice if there was at least a more established guy in one of those spots.

kaldaniels
08-28-2010, 02:28 PM
Homer is rehabbing and iffy. Cueto and Wood are going to be in uncharted waters from an innings standpoint. Who knows if they'll be effective? Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Wood isn't exactly a lights out advantage going into the post-season. Lots of questions and we need them all to be answered positively. I'm sure it won't all go bad, but we need pretty much all of it to go well come play-off time. It would be nice if there was at least a more established guy in one of those spots.

And I agree. I want Harang to give it a go. I'm just trying to calm people down by stating the obvious...if Harang stinks, he ain't gonna be around the starting rotation long at all.

PuffyPig
08-28-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm terrified. I never want to see AH in a Reds uniform again. Sorry,

320

After a poor April, Harang pitched pretty good in May and June.

He might be able to help down the stretch.

TheNext44
08-29-2010, 01:57 PM
Fay reports Harang will definitely start on Tuesday. I don't understand this.

I have no problem with Harang starting down the stretch, but starting him on Tues. Forces the Reds to make a roster move. Pitch LeCure, who will likely give you similar results, and the Reds won't have to make any roster moves. I don't get the logic behind this.

JaxRed
08-29-2010, 02:10 PM
Maybe the plan is to have Lecure go back and start for AAA in playoffs, then come back

RED VAN HOT
08-29-2010, 08:34 PM
I am confused. If the plan was to start Harang on the 31st, wouldn't it have made sense to get him into a game in Louisville between the 20th and now?...a start on the 25th or 26th? Bullpen sessions and simulated games aside, Harang has not had much rehab time compared to the length of time he was inactive. I suspect that he will be on a strict pitch count. The Reds could afford to go the pen early as the roster expands the next day and Thursday is an off day.

ESPN is showing the Reds pitcher on the 31st as TBD. They are also showing Volquez starting the second game against the Cardinals. That would be Wood's normal turn. Perhaps Dusty is reluctant to start a LHP against the Cardinals.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 08:46 PM
Perhaps it has something to do with their rotation for St. Louis.

Ghosts of 1990
08-29-2010, 08:52 PM
If the Cardinals are indeed going to climb back into this thig and we are going to collapse, Aaron Harang is going to be a contributor to that. There is simply no need for him on this team, none.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 09:25 PM
If the Cardinals are indeed going to climb back into this thig and we are going to collapse, Aaron Harang is going to be a contributor to that. There is simply no need for him on this team, none.

I don't even know what to say to that.

There are a lot of pitchers the last few years that have been worse...far, far worse than Aaron Harang. I trust him out there pitching. The Reds were surviving some absolutely putrid, terrible starts by Edinson Volquez. If they can survive that, they can survive a guy that's been giving 4.50 baseball the last few seasons.

The Operator
08-29-2010, 09:45 PM
I can't possibly fathom how anyone is scared of seeing Aaron Harang pitch after we've been subjected to Volquez's last two starts.

Aaron doesn't even have to pitch well and he's still an improvement over Edinson. If he pitches as well as he was when he got injured, we may have something heading down the stretch.

The Reds gave Volquez 8 starts and he stunk the joint up. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Reds starter get owned like he did in SF. The prospect of Harang coming back isn't exactly exciting but at least he's not going to do worse than Volquez. Ain't gonna happen.

WVRedsFan
08-29-2010, 10:03 PM
In his last 8 starts, Edinson has pitched 35 innings (less than 5 innings per start), allowed 42 hits and 24 runs, walked 27 and struck out 36. His ERA is over 6 and is a mess all around. Even Harang at his worst isn't that bad. I fear he will be worse out of the bullpen. He came up too early.

edabbs44
08-29-2010, 10:04 PM
In his last 8 starts, Edinson has pitched 35 innings (less than 5 innings per start), allowed 42 hits and 24 runs, walked 27 and struck out 36. His ERA is over 6 and is a mess all around. Even Harang at his worst isn't that bad. I fear he will be worse out of the bullpen. He came up too early.

Volquez should be the mop up guy until further notice.

fearofpopvol1
08-29-2010, 10:06 PM
If the Cardinals are indeed going to climb back into this thig and we are going to collapse, Aaron Harang is going to be a contributor to that. There is simply no need for him on this team, none.

Aaron doesn't have the same mileage on his arm this year that most of the Reds pitchers have. Guys are (getting more) tired. He could be a big help. He may not be amazing, but he can certainly be useful. He throws strikes and will have a good defense behind him. As long as he keeps the ball in the yard he'll be fine.

edabbs44
08-29-2010, 10:10 PM
Aaron doesn't have the same mileage on his arm this year that most of the Reds pitchers have. Guys are (getting more) tired. He could be a big help. He may not be amazing, but he can certainly be useful. He throws strikes and will have a good defense behind him. As long as he keeps the ball in the yard he'll be fine.

Yep, I can't see how giving him a start or 2 at this point is such a bad idea.

kaldaniels
08-29-2010, 11:30 PM
If the Cardinals are indeed going to climb back into this thig and we are going to collapse, Aaron Harang is going to be a contributor to that. There is simply no need for him on this team, none.

Who is your 5th starter then?

REDREAD
08-29-2010, 11:58 PM
If the Cardinals are indeed going to climb back into this thig and we are going to collapse, Aaron Harang is going to be a contributor to that. There is simply no need for him on this team, none.

Harang is going to be perfectly fine for the 4th or 5th starter for the rest of the year. Volquez needs out of the rotation. There's no better option.
I'm glad the team is showing Harang some loyalty instead of burying him in AAA the rest of the year. That's what classy clubs do. And I disagree that LeClure is guaranteed to produce similiar results.. I am underwhelmed by LeClure.. If Harang is healthy (which I presume he is), let's give him a shot.

We all forget that Harang might actually pitch decent for us the last month if he's healthy.. I like his odds better than Volquez or LeClure at this point.

Cedric
08-30-2010, 12:19 AM
Harang is going to be perfectly fine for the 4th or 5th starter for the rest of the year. Volquez needs out of the rotation. There's no better option.
I'm glad the team is showing Harang some loyalty instead of burying him in AAA the rest of the year. That's what classy clubs do. And I disagree that LeClure is guaranteed to produce similiar results.. I am underwhelmed by LeClure.. If Harang is healthy (which I presume he is), let's give him a shot.

We all forget that Harang might actually pitch decent for us the last month if he's healthy.. I like his odds better than Volquez or LeClure at this point.

I highly doubt class has much to do with it. If Volquez was pitching good you wouldn't see Harang anytime soon.

Captain Hook
08-30-2010, 12:39 AM
I highly doubt class has much to do with it. If Volquez was pitching good you wouldn't see Harang anytime soon.

Things have fallen into place nicely with the pitchers.Somehow the Reds have managed to use Arroyo,Cueto,Wood,Leake,Bailey,Volquez and Harang when they've been able to pitch.

I know Lecure and Maloney have had a handful of starts but for the most part the Reds have had guys that are/have been/could be #1 or #2 starter on most MLB teams.In past years you'd be hard pressed to find a starter in the whole organization that any one of those three things could be said about.

WVRedsFan
08-30-2010, 12:47 AM
Things have fallen into place nicely with the pitchers.Somehow the Reds have managed to use Arroyo,Cueto,Wood,Leake,Bailey,Volquez and Harang when they've been able to pitch.

I know Lecure and Maloney have had a handful of starts but for the most part the Reds have had guys that are/have been/could be #1 or #2 starter on most MLB teams.In past years you'd be hard pressed to find a starter in the whole organization that any one of those three things could be said about.You speak the truth. There were years when no one on the pitching staff seemed like they could get anyone out. No lead was sufficient and everyone drilled us. No more. We have our lapses, but always come back. Aaron Harang will be fine.

Plus Plus
08-30-2010, 01:09 AM
The Reds gave Volquez 8 starts and he stunk the joint up. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Reds starter get owned like he did in SF. The prospect of Harang coming back isn't exactly exciting but at least he's not going to do worse than Volquez. Ain't gonna happen.

Arroyo in Toronto was equally dismal.

kaldaniels
08-30-2010, 01:14 AM
Arroyo in Toronto was equally dismal.

One of the culprits in that game (2008)...none other than Scottie Rolen with a 3 run home run. Not that one is worse than the other, but BA got beat around in Toronto, while EV looked lost in SF. Just my opinion.

The Operator
08-30-2010, 01:33 AM
Arroyo in Toronto was equally dismal.

Yes, but I didn't see that game on TV. :D

I'd rather watch a guy get beat around though, then to watch a guy walk batter after batter after batter and then serve up a fat pitch that gets hammered. It's demoralizing.

bucksfan2
08-30-2010, 10:40 AM
I want nothing to do with Harang. But, I can say the same about Volquez and if I had to pick the one pitcher I had more confidence in going 6ip with ~4ER then that guy is Harang. Volquez could all likely go out and throw 7 shutout innings but he could also go out and pitch 2IP with 5 ER.

If it were up to me I would see if BA could pitch every 4th day with the bye days giving him an extra day of rest.

Chip R
08-30-2010, 10:58 AM
If it were up to me I would see if BA could pitch every 4th day with the bye days giving him an extra day of rest.


Bronson has said before he'd take the ball every 4th day. But it may mess up the other pitchers who are used to pitching on 4 days rest.

REDREAD
08-30-2010, 11:10 AM
I highly doubt class has much to do with it. If Volquez was pitching good you wouldn't see Harang anytime soon.

Sure, if Volquez was pitching great, then it's an easy call to put Harang in the pen..
But since Volquez is pitching like crap, it makes sense to give Harang a start.

At bare mimimum, Harang will be one of the best 5th starters in the league. He might give us more than that.
He might even be an asset in the postseason We have to find out by giving him some playing time now.

membengal
08-30-2010, 11:26 AM
Put me down as glad to give Harang another run at it in EV's place. Just too much post-TJ uncertainty with EV for 2010 for a team in a pennant race.

If this team clinches early, I would love to see EV get a start last week of the season.

As it stands, for now, I am glad they have Harang to plug back in and see if he can help in the next few weeks. At the very least, his arm should be fresh.

oneupper
08-30-2010, 11:37 AM
Classic Risk/Reward dilemma

Harang: Lower Volatility, Lower Potential Reward.
He's not that good anymore, but you figure he can keep you in the ballgame (if he can keep it in the park).

Volquez Higher Risk, Higher Potential Reward.
Dr. Jeklyl/Mr. Hyde.
If the good Volquez shows up, the game is practically in the bag.

Who do I want to pitch?

If the opposing pitcher is a Jeff Suppan/Dave Bush type, I might prefer Harang.
If it's Halladay or Jimenez, give me Volquez. Losing 4-2 is the same as 9-2.

Ghosts of 1990
08-30-2010, 12:13 PM
Who is your 5th starter then?

I go with a 4 man down the stretch if need be.

Cueto, Arroyo, Wood, Bailey. You take the best three into the playoffs for your rotation. Harang has had a case of the 'hit me's down in AAA Louisville.

nate
08-30-2010, 12:25 PM
Harang has had a case of the 'hit me's down in AAA Louisville.

I keep hearing this but I see good peripherals and a high BABIP in 11 IP. Did anyone actually see these two outings? Were there line drives being blasted all over the park or were there a bunch of GB w/eyes like we've seen the past two series vs. the Cubs and Giants?

I ask in earnest.

Not that it matters, he's pitching tomorrow no matter what level of anxiety one feels.

oneupper
08-30-2010, 12:25 PM
BTW. The REDS are 6-2 in Volquez's 8 starts.
He managed to shut down Colorado, Atlanta and Florida (albeit high pitch counts).

Let him work with Price on his command. If he gets it, he's an asset.

kaldaniels
08-30-2010, 12:25 PM
I go with a 4 man down the stretch if need be.

Cueto, Arroyo, Wood, Bailey. You take the best three into the playoffs for your rotation. Harang has had a case of the 'hit me's down in AAA Louisville.

With a 5 game cushion there's no way I start sending JC,HB,and TW out there every 4 days. If it was down to the wire I'd allow Bronson to go every 4, but not the youngsters.

Hoosier Red
08-30-2010, 12:34 PM
Volquez should be the mop up guy until further notice.

He already grew his hair out to look the part.