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View Full Version : Cardinals adjust rotation for Reds' Series



SWIndRed
08-28-2010, 11:19 PM
The Cardinals announced Jeff Suppan will start in place of Garcia in their series finale against the Astros. This will allow the Redbirds to go with Garcia (on six days rest) to open the series against the Reds on Friday night with Carpenter and Wainwright to follow on Saturday and Sunday. This information comes from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

Wish we could have picked up another game in the standing tonight. Thank you Adam Dunn and Kyle Lohse for your contributions to tonight win by the Nationals.

bshall2105
08-28-2010, 11:21 PM
It seems like they need Garcia to beat the Astros more than they do to beat us.

AintlifeGrande
08-29-2010, 12:45 AM
Sounds like the Burds are a little scurred.

BPhil4
08-29-2010, 12:52 AM
They're definetly desperate. They need a sweep of us in the worst possible way. If we were to go down there and take 2 games, mixed with their 30 games in 30 days... I think it'd crack them for good.

snowstorm
08-29-2010, 01:09 AM
I hope Suppan gives up 10 runs against the Astros. :D

Sean_CaseyRules
08-29-2010, 01:37 AM
Good move for the Cards. Hopefully it comes back and bites them.

I believe we're gonna take 2 of 3.

Magdal
08-29-2010, 02:07 AM
It does not matter WHO they pitch vs. the Reds. It does not matter if they sweep the Reds. Since the last Reds series the Cards have won 3 of 11 games vs. the worst teams in the NL. The infield is a mess, the starting pitching is starting to wither on the FRONT end...forget about the back end! That is 2 guaranteed loses every 5 games.

On a deeper level the team is fairly gutless. Carp and Yadi seem to be the only 2 guys on the team with a pair. Did you see how some punk player knocked over the Cards rookie back-up catcher last nite? Total cheap shot. Disrespect from the Nationals has got to be hard to swallow for a "front line" team.

Will LaRussa have Wainwright drill him tomorro? I doubt it.

crazyjdawg
08-29-2010, 02:59 AM
Last time they did this, they swept us. But after that, since they completely messed up the rhythm of every single one of their pitchers, they gave us the lead right back.

And now they're gonna try it again?

La Russa is one of the worst managers in the game now. (not saying he has never good a good manager. I just think he's lost his marbles at this point).

The cardinals stink of desperation.

10xWSChamps
08-29-2010, 03:16 AM
IMO it would be completely stupid for us to NOT do it again if we could.

10xWSChamps
08-29-2010, 03:20 AM
They're definetly desperate. They need a sweep of us in the worst possible way. If we were to go down there and take 2 games, mixed with their 30 games in 30 days... I think it'd crack them for good.

Yep, the Cardinals can't afford to lose this series, wildcard or division outcomes will, obviously, both be effected. A series loss would kill a chance to win the division but a sweep would put us right back in it. If we win the series chances are we'll still be in the thick of things in the wild card and possibly in the lead.

So basically a series loss would be a double whammy as far as playoff spots go. I can't believe anyone on this thread thinks the Cardinals stacking the rotation like this is a bad idea. Especially considering the outcome last time, there's nothing to lose and everything to gain.

RedsFanInBama
08-29-2010, 03:40 AM
The last time they came out roses because not only did the adjusted rotation hand us our butts, but they were lucky enough to get rained out in Florida and completely skip Suppan's start. They'd probably be another half game back right now if not for that. Oh well. I'm glad they're doing this. We need to prove we can beat good pitching in September. We'll get that opportunity.

lidspinner
08-29-2010, 07:24 AM
crazy to adjust like that for a 3 game series.....its not what you do against the Reds, its what you do those other 31 games that will determine if you make the playoffs or not...Jaime is got to hit a wall at some point, he is getting into unchartered territory.....but I do say bring it.....not the least scared.....if they sweep us, we will just go right back to winning and they will go right back to losing..

Reverend Doo-Rag
08-29-2010, 08:15 AM
What do you want to bet that yadi or somebody starts some kind of incident right before the first game? That seems to be the card's sharpest tool in their bag, and it kind of worked last time.

ThornWithin81
08-29-2010, 09:04 AM
I think the Reds are going to dominate this series. I know STL plays us well but they are just not playing well right now as a team. The Reds weren't ready for the first series, thankfully, work AFTER that series has Cincinnati in position to effectively end the Division race right here and now, especially if the gap increases before the series starts this weekend.

I'll be shocked if the Cardinals manage another sweep.

Vottomatic
08-29-2010, 10:05 AM
If we win 1 of 3, they pick up one lousy game and then they send out Suppan and Lohse the next 2 games, get their brains beat in, and lose a couple of more games while our next two starting pitchers keep us in the game.

I'm not worried at all.

If we take 2 of 3, we're in the driver's seat, and again, Suppan and Lohse put them either further back in the next 2 games.

And the Cardinals players seem to exhaust themselves emotionally and mentally when they play the Reds, and will go in the tank offensively immediately after that series, like they did last time.

They have the better 2 pitchers in Carpenter and Wainwright. They may have the better two players in Pujols and Holliday. BUT, they don't have the better starting rotation overall from 1 thru 5, and they don't have the better offensive lineup either.

Just don't put Gomes in LF for that series to misplay the ball and spot them some runs.

Krawhitham
08-29-2010, 10:20 AM
They will not sweep the Reds again, it is almost impossible for a team to win 7 straight games against another team, any team and the Reds are a good team

Quatitos
08-29-2010, 11:58 AM
IMO it would be completely stupid for us to NOT do it again if we could.

I think if the cards keep throwing the same pitchers at the Reds, eventually they are going to get to know their pitches very well.

So far this year the Reds have seen Wainwright 3 times, Garcia 3 times, and Carpenter 4 times. Eventually the Reds are going to get these pitchers down and if that happens this move will not look so good in retrospect. This also bodes well for if the Reds meet the cards in the playoffs, because you know they will pitch Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia (assuming he is not shut down at an inning limit).

Also what might hurt the cards is the fact they are taking people off of their normal rest cycle, which can mess a pitcher up for several starts until he gets back into a rhythm.

bshall2105
08-29-2010, 12:02 PM
I think if the cards keep throwing the same pitchers at the Reds, eventually they are going to get to know their pitches very well.

So far this year the Reds have seen Wainwright 3 times, Garcia 3 times, and Carpenter 4 times. Eventually the Reds are going to get these pitchers down and if that happens this move will not look so good in retrospect. This also bodes well for if the Reds meet the cards in the playoffs, because you know they will pitch Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia (assuming he is not shut down at an inning limit).

Also what might hurt the cards is the fact they are taking people off of their normal rest cycle, which can mess a pitcher up for several starts until he gets back into a rhythm.

You might be right about Garcia or Wainright, but I don't think they will ever figure out Carpenter. He's the new Roy Oswalt.

New York Red
08-29-2010, 12:06 PM
They may have the better two players in Pujols and Holliday.
Say what?! :eek:

Aces Wild
08-29-2010, 12:24 PM
No suprise here at all. The Cards have to sweep or they are all but done. It might hurt them down the stretch but they really don't have a choice. Desperation sucks...lol

Fon Duc Tow
08-29-2010, 03:16 PM
Sounds like the Burds are a little scurred.

:D

Maker_84
08-29-2010, 04:23 PM
we CANNOT get swept again. winning one game would be a success

Jefferson24
08-29-2010, 04:26 PM
we'll win 1, but they may be down 6 or 7 by then so even if we don't win one it will be ok.

mlh1981
08-29-2010, 04:56 PM
What I would give to go.......

I hope Reds nation is well supported there.

Jr's Boy
08-29-2010, 05:04 PM
Just reading today,Larussa stated that Lohse is not a lock for the rotation for the final 5 weeks.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 05:43 PM
So they are pushing Garcia back a day to let Suppan pitch... How does that help them at all?

foxfire123
08-29-2010, 06:26 PM
What I would give to go.......

I hope Reds nation is well supported there.

This Reds Nation member won't go within 50 miles of Busch next weekend. The attitude of Cardinal fans towards the Reds right now, coupled with the potential of too much AB product consumed by young hotheaded idiots? Um, no. I'll stay safe on my couch and cheer on the boys from here thankyouverymuch. :thumbup:

Girevik
08-30-2010, 09:34 AM
I hope Suppan gives up 10 runs against the Astros. :D

I'd rather Garcia give up 10 runs to the Reds.

athinnes
08-30-2010, 09:41 AM
The idea of a Red's sweep in STL gives me goosebumps. I know, it's unlikely it will happen, but still, just imagine if we were like 7 or 8 games up with a month to go.

In a more realistic sense, as others have pointed out, let's just not get swept, then the only damage they can do is one game.

Redeye fly
08-30-2010, 10:04 AM
Yep, the Cardinals can't afford to lose this series, wildcard or division outcomes will, obviously, both be effected. A series loss would kill a chance to win the division but a sweep would put us right back in it. If we win the series chances are we'll still be in the thick of things in the wild card and possibly in the lead.

So basically a series loss would be a double whammy as far as playoff spots go. I can't believe anyone on this thread thinks the Cardinals stacking the rotation like this is a bad idea. Especially considering the outcome last time, there's nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Really? I understand the motivation for doing it, but we're not in the playoffs yet. The Cardinals did this once, swept the Reds and took over first place. The Reds shrugged their shoulders and won the next 7. The Cardinals won the next game then lost 5 in a row. Even though they won 2 out of 3 against the Giants, they really haven't been "right" since the Reds series, losing every other series since to teams like the Cubs, the Brewers, the Pirates, and the Nationals. The Reds, meanwhile, have won every series since with the exception of the series against the Giants.

It just seems to me that Tony and the Redbirds seem to think that if they manage to kick the Reds teeth in, Cincinnati will wither and collapse and the division will be theirs. But they've already been proven wrong once, so if they're fooled twice it will definitely be shame on them.

The Reds just seem to be much more aware of the fact that there's other teams in the league and other games to show up for and play than games against the Cardinals. The Cardinals just seem to be content to "prove something to the Reds", as if winning or even dominating the season series head to head means anything if you finish second in the division, and perhaps don't even grab the wild card.

I don't know how a Cardinals fan or player could be happy to say, "We went 13-5 against the Reds, but they won the division and we watched the playoffs at home.

Redeye fly
08-30-2010, 10:31 AM
On another note, I know he won't do it, but if I were Dusty, I'd be so tempted to screw with that team's head in that series. I'd send Janish out to the mound and put Arroyo at SS, and switch them back after 1 hitter, or before he pitched to a hitter (which actually you might not be able to do), but just something to get in their head. I'd send a little chin music to Molina to say "hey Yadi, how ya doin?" I'd have Phillips start the game, take a couple of swings, wait until Garcia was ready to come to the plate, and at the last minute, call "time", step out of the box, and smile and wave at him on the mound before stepping back in.

Ok, you do have to be careful, so maybe I wouldn't do that. But, point being this move reeks, I mean reeks of desperation. Maybe I'll be proven wrong this time, but I don't think Tony is doing his team any favorites. He's basically sending the message to every guy on his roster that once again this is the most important series of the year. So the guys on that team have to once again pull themselves out of the rut that they will hopefully still be in heading into that series, pour all their intensity and effort into that series, and then try not to have another letdown after it's over. I don't care how good you are, that's tough to do.

The Reds on the other hand will approach it as a key series, but well aware that no matter what happens, there's baseball to play after it's over, and those games will be just as important as the 3 games in St. Louis.

So I say bring it Cardinals. Sweep us again if you can, but try not to hurt yourselves too bad if you fall on your face again afterward.

Red Rover
08-30-2010, 10:37 AM
I can see this backfiring on the Redbirds. They need to win as many games as possible, not just the game against the Reds. They are closer in the wildcard race than the division. Most smart teams, at the juncture in the season are trying to skip their 4/5 pitchers, not giving them more starts. Don't you want to give your 1/2/3 pitchers as many starts as possible till the end of the season, instead the Redbirds are pusing them back?

At this point, I think the Redbirds should be focusing on the wildcard as that race seems to be within grasp. Focusing on the Reds may end up hurting their wildcard chances, and still might not be able to catch the Reds.

krm1580
08-30-2010, 10:39 AM
I just watched a couple of cellar dwellars in the Pirates and Nationals go 3-0 in games started by Carpenter and Wainwright so don't really care who the Cardinals put out there. The bottom line is the Reds need to step up against this team. NO EXCUSES!

If the Reds make the playoffs, the days of seeing the likes of Jeff Suppan or Kyle Kendrick are over. Its going to be guys like Halladay, Latos, Hammels, Carpenter and Wainwright every night. They need to start getting the job done against good pitching and it might as well start this weekend.

Stray
08-30-2010, 11:05 AM
I think it's the right thing to do from St. Louis' perspective. Garcia is still young and not used to this many innings, so pushing him back to start against us with a little more rest seems logical.

They have all of the pressure on them to sweep this series, whether they should be thinking like that is another argument, but that's how they think and okay then. We just need to play solid baseball from here on out, and they have to play out of their minds to make it into the postseason.

In a way I like it, it gives us another crack at those three, and you aren't going to find a better three in the National League. So with the postseason (hopefully) around the corner and our record against those guys, I love that we're going to be tested in a tough environment. I think we're more prepared to respond well this time.

arkimadee
08-30-2010, 11:17 AM
1 out of 3 would not be horrible.. we would just lose 1 game in the standings.. 2 out of 3 gains us a game and it would look pretty good.. A sweep of them pretty much gives us the division... Hopefully we will be 8 up when the series starts so even a sweep wouldn't matter all that much.

Vottomatic
08-30-2010, 02:25 PM
I'd love to mess with the Cards, but my better self says we need to keep our mouths shut, and just go out and play some ball.

Let the Cardinals mouth off, stir up trouble, and let's be the bigger men and not fall prey to it. Just walk away and if they want to go that route, just let them make fools of themselves.

If we lose all 3, we may still win the division and the Cards may fail to even win the wild card.

With what happened last time, it proved that this series isn't everything.

mlh1981
08-30-2010, 04:29 PM
This Reds Nation member won't go within 50 miles of Busch next weekend. The attitude of Cardinal fans towards the Reds right now, coupled with the potential of too much AB product consumed by young hotheaded idiots? Um, no. I'll stay safe on my couch and cheer on the boys from here thankyouverymuch. :thumbup:

They still have the Rams and Blues to look forward to this fall/winter, after their Summer dreams are crushed.. :D

gmt
08-30-2010, 04:37 PM
They still have the Rams and Blues to look forward to this fall/winter, after their Summer dreams are crushed.. :D

The Cubs mantra... glad we have the bulls, blackhawks and bears...

cw0802
08-31-2010, 04:20 PM
Coming from a Cardinals fan...i realize just how little you guys know about St. Louis and the Cardinals.

1st. I'll address all those who have said the Cardinal fans hatred for the Reds would spawn some sort of brawl in the stands. A very small portion of the Cardinal fans are the disturbers, just like every other team in the league. There's always those fans who think they need to get physical with a visiting fan, these are the people that have no sense of humor. If you come to a game in St. Louis, never get bleacher seats. That's where the bums sit. You can usually get a decently priced seat down the 1st or 3rd baseline. I also recommend the Bank of America Club, Cardinal Club or Champions Club. These tickets are all inclusive, all you can eat and drink. They usually have a roast beef and BBQ brisket carving station, brats, dogs, salad, nachos, ice cream, cookies and brownies. You can get any type of AB beer (of course) and mixed drinks. Usually not a bad call and some games are only $70 or $80. That's a pretty good price considering a soda costs around $6 and a beer is $9.

I was born and raised in St. Louis. I practically grew up on Cardinal baseball and if any of you were to go to the game this weekend and sat next to me, sure there would be some playful razzing but I would definitely buy you a beer and take you over to Paddy O's after the game. If any so called "fans" got in your face cause you were a Reds fan, i'd be right there to have your back and i'll tell you that I wouldn't be the only one. The good fans outnumber the bad ones greatly. Heck, during the 04 NLCS, i saw large groups of Astro fans mingling with Cards fans after the games at the bars. I never once saw a fight. The same thing goes for when the Cubs come to town. As with every other city, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Well...i think we could all agree that Philly fans are nuts.

Next, many have said they fear for the health of the Reds players. Think what you will about La Russa, but he does not exact revenge by throwing high and tight or trying to harm the opposing team's players. He always orders for the player to get his in the butt and he's always been very clear with that. I've seen La Russa yank pitchers for throwing high at tight. I've seen those pitchers get sat down and fined by the club before MLB can even pass judgment. Say what you want, but he doesn't tolerate his players going or taking matters into their own hands.

Lastly, as much as i'm looking forward to this series, i can say the Reds have a great team. And i don't think the Cardinals have a chance in hell to win. It seems as if they've packed it in and mentally they're down at the Ozarks fishing already.

Much luck in the playoffs and if the Birds don't grab the wild card, i'll be pulling for you guys to destroy the AL.

mckbearcat48
08-31-2010, 04:23 PM
cw...you found them? lol

cw0802
08-31-2010, 04:34 PM
no...actually...i havn't. lol

Vottomatic
08-31-2010, 05:03 PM
Coming from a Cardinals fan...i realize just how little you guys know about St. Louis and the Cardinals.

1st. I'll address all those who have said the Cardinal fans hatred for the Reds would spawn some sort of brawl in the stands. A very small portion of the Cardinal fans are the sh!t disturbers, just like every other team in the league. There's always those fans who think they need to get physical with a visiting fan, these are the *****s that have no sense of humor. If you come to a game in St. Louis, never get bleacher seats. That's where the bums sit. You can usually get a decently priced seat down the 1st or 3rd baseline. I also recommend the Bank of America Club, Cardinal Club or Champions Club. These tickets are all inclusive, all you can eat and drink. They usually have a roast beef and BBQ brisket carving station, brats, dogs, salad, nachos, ice cream, cookies and brownies. You can get any type of AB beer (of course) and mixed drinks. Usually not a bad call and some games are only $70 or $80. That's a pretty good price considering a soda costs around $6 and a beer is $9.

I was born and raised in St. Louis. I practically grew up on Cardinal baseball and if any of you were to go to the game this weekend and sat next to me, sure there would be some playful razzing but I would definitely buy you a beer and take you over to Paddy O's after the game. If any so called "fans" got in your face cause you were a Reds fan, i'd be right there to have your back and i'll tell you that I wouldn't be the only one. The good fans outnumber the bad ones greatly. Heck, during the 04 NLCS, i saw large groups of Astro fans mingling with Cards fans after the games at the bars. I never once saw a fight. The same thing goes for when the Cubs come to town. As with every other city, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Well...i think we could all agree that Philly fans are f**kin' nuts.

Next, many have said they fear for the health of the Reds players. Think what you will about La Russa, but he does not exact revenge by throwing high and tight or trying to harm the opposing team's players. He always orders for the player to get his in the a$$ and he's always been very clear with that. I've seen La Russa yank pitchers for throwing high at tight. I've seen those pitchers get sat down and fined by the club before MLB can even pass judgment. Say what you want, but he doesn't tolerate his players going or taking matters into their own hands.

Lastly, as much as i'm looking forward to this series, i can say the Reds have a great team. And i don't think the Cardinals have a chance in hell to win. It seems as if they've packed it in and mentally they're down at the Ozarks fishing already.

Much luck in the playoffs and if the Birds don't grab the wild card, i'll be pulling for you guys to destroy the AL.

I went skiing on Lake of the Ozarks while doing Basic Training at Ft. Leonardwood. Remember it well. Our boat ran out of gas and they had to tow us back in. LOL. It was only 24 years ago, but still vividly remembered.

Redeye fly
08-31-2010, 05:14 PM
I actually do buy that LaRussa won't stand for his guys head hunting, even for "payback" reasons. I seem to recall something about that when he was basically trying to say that Aaron Harang was trying to throw at someone's head, because Harang was known to have good control. Naturally, I thought that was a little short sighted if not low class, because you can have the best control in baseball, but that doesn't mean that if you throw 90-100 plus pitches almost every game that you're not going to lose control of 1 pitch every so often. But I do seem to recall him being adamant that his pitchers never go for the head.

foxfire123
08-31-2010, 05:50 PM
CW, buddy, pal, you sound like a generally decent guy for a Cards fan , but I have to disagree with you about not knowing Cards fans. I've lived here for 17 years, and frankly, I've seen more bad cards fans than I care to really think about. (I'd like to have a dime for every time I've been told "you live here now, you HAVE to be a Cards fan!" I could retire and move back to Ohio quite comfortably! They don't much like my comeback of "OK, but only if you move to Chicago and become a Cubs fan!

Still not going near Busch this weekend. No how, no way. and I have a sinking feeling that it's going to turn into another free-for-all. Tho, for some reason, I think it's going to happen *in the stands* rather than on the field.

Kingspoint
08-31-2010, 10:33 PM
Cardinals adjust rotation for Reds' Series

Why?

It's over.

GIDP
08-31-2010, 10:37 PM
7 games. They have a chance to lose to the Stros tomorrow also with Suppan starting. Cardinals are hoping for a sweep because any thing less will really destroy their central chances.

Vottomatic
08-31-2010, 10:57 PM
Cardinals adjust rotation for Reds series.

Does it really matter?

cw0802
09-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Votto...I do enjoy the Lake. Party Cove is a little much but I am very grateful for those young ladies that showed me so many wonderful things in my youth!

FireFox123. I'll agree, there are many people that move here from other cities and there are plenty of dummies that pull the "root for the cards cause you live here" junk. But you'll have to agree, that anywhere you live you'll experience bad fans, and I don't know if it's just me but people generally remember the bad more than the good. And plus, once the jerks get some liquid courage in them it only multiplies their ignorance.

I know some folks that moved here that held onto their home team allegiance and i really don't care...the only person i give trouble too is the die hard Mariners fan who has never been to Seattle....that's only cause i don't get it.