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View Full Version : The Reds will get the big 3 Labor Day weekend



Matt700wlw
08-29-2010, 11:08 AM
From the St. Louis beat writers blog



Rotation Adjusted: The Cardinals will activate Jeff Suppan from the disabled list Sept.1 to start the series finale against the Houston Astros. The move allows rookie lefthander Jaime Garcia to start the Sept. 3 series opener against the Cincinnati Reds followed by Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright La Russa formalized* the move on Saturday after watching Garcia throw 5 1/3 scoreless innings in Friday's 4-2 win over the Nationals. He could have chosen to keep Garcia on regular rest, have Carpenter and Wainwright work the first two games, then employ Jake Westbrook in the third game. Garcia, Carpenter and Wainwright started during the Cardinals' three-game sweep of the Reds in Cincinnati Aug. 9-11.

toledodan
08-29-2010, 11:30 AM
might as well. if and when we make the playoffs it will be the same senerio no matter the team. not a surprise tony baseball would do this. i hope we can pad our lead by a game or two before we get there friday night so the team can just relax. at this point all you need to do is not be swept. losing 2 of 3 only gets the cards one game. they need the sweep so the pressure will all be on them.

Phhhl
08-29-2010, 11:40 AM
The way Houston has been playing, that may not be looking like such a hot decision next week.

LoganBuck
08-29-2010, 11:41 AM
This time the Reds crush them into submission.

Degenerate39
08-29-2010, 11:41 AM
Bring it on Cards

WVRed
08-29-2010, 11:48 AM
Looks like with Volquez going to the pen, Wood is going to be making an earlier start. I'm guessing Cueto will be starting in the St Louis series now (wasnt scheduled to before).

Cueto vs Priss would be a nice matchup.

Tornon
08-29-2010, 11:59 AM
I think I'd almost rather face Garcia than Westbrook

Tornon
08-29-2010, 12:00 PM
Looks like with Volquez going to the pen, Wood is going to be making an earlier start. I'm guessing Cueto will be starting in the St Louis series now (wasnt scheduled to before).

Cueto vs Priss would be a nice matchup.

I'm not sure if Dusty would want to do that to him.. my guess is Cueto will start the Wednesday game against Milwaukee on normal rest. That way we'd have Arroyo - Wood - Homer against St. Louis

MattyHo4Life
08-29-2010, 12:07 PM
I think I'd almost rather face Garcia than Westbrook

good, because I would much rather Garcia pitch against the Reds than Westbrook. I get really nervous when Westbrook or Lohse pitches.

Mario-Rijo
08-29-2010, 12:08 PM
I imagine the Reds figured that was gonna happen I doubt it will as easy for them (the Cards) this time around, just a hunch.

MattyHo4Life
08-29-2010, 12:15 PM
I imagine the Reds figured that was gonna happen

It only made sense for the Cards to do that. The Cards season rides on those three arms anyways. Without those three pitchers, the Cards would probably be burried in the standings.

Redsfan320
08-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I believe Ken Broo was saying yesterday on Sports Talk that someone with the Reds told him they'll make sure Cueto doesn't start in the Cards series.

320

redsfandan
08-29-2010, 01:31 PM
might as well. if and when we make the playoffs it will be the same senerio no matter the team. not a surprise tony baseball would do this. i hope we can pad our lead by a game or two before we get there friday night so the team can just relax. at this point all you need to do is not be swept. losing 2 of 3 only gets the cards one game. they need the sweep so the pressure will all be on them.
Yep, since the Cards last played the Reds they've lost a series to Chicago, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and (depending on today) they could lose the series to Washington. If the Cards keep that up and the Reds just avoid a sweep next weekend the Cards won't have much of a chance to win the division.

Their fans can cling to their record vs the Reds all they want. But, at the end of the season what will matter much more is the final overall record of St Louis and Cincinnati.

VR
08-29-2010, 01:51 PM
Yep, since the Cards last played the Reds they've lost a series to Chicago, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and (depending on today) they could lose the series to Washington. If the Cards keep that up and the Reds just avoid a sweep next weekend the Cards won't have much of a chance to win the division.

Their fans can cling to their record vs the Reds all they want. But, at the end of the season what will matter much more is the final overall record of St Louis and Cincinnati.

Very good dan.

There are no more starts to be avoided by the black hole 4/5 spots in the Cards rotation.....so lining 1/2/3 up vs. the Reds just means other teams get more of the other guys....not a big deal in my book.

If the Reds can win 1 against them....it's a huge victory.

edabbs44
08-29-2010, 02:02 PM
If the Reds want to be a contender they have to beat guys like them.

Homer Bailey
08-29-2010, 02:02 PM
I still have a very bad feeling about this series. Don't mean to be a debbie downer, but I'm already nervous.

membengal
08-29-2010, 02:16 PM
If the Reds want to be a contender they have to beat guys like them.

Since the Reds are currently "contending", apparently not.

alexad
08-29-2010, 02:24 PM
BRING IT ON!! We can't play scared!! This series is what being a playoff contender is all about.

redsfandan
08-29-2010, 02:41 PM
I just wish I could watch, or at least listen, to those games. Should be interesting.

TheNext44
08-29-2010, 02:46 PM
What this says to me is that the Cards have to manipulate their rotation if they are to have a chance. The Reds don't. They can pitch their starters based on what's best for them overall.

RedLegSuperStar
08-29-2010, 04:15 PM
Wainwright was pulled today in the 5th

Matt700wlw
08-29-2010, 04:23 PM
The Reds will win that series....the knockout punch to the LaRussa's

hebroncougar
08-29-2010, 04:24 PM
Cards better stop worry about the Reds, and start worrying about the game in front of them, or they might be 6-7 games out come Friday.

edabbs44
08-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Since the Reds are currently "contending", apparently not.

Contend for more than the NL Central.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 05:06 PM
The way Houston has been playing, that may not be looking like such a hot decision next week.

They already struggle against Houston as it is, especially Bud Norris. They're (again) throwing all their eggs in the Cincinnati basket, they might trip and crush their eggs against the other teams.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 05:08 PM
I believe Ken Broo was saying yesterday on Sports Talk that someone with the Reds told him they'll make sure Cueto doesn't start in the Cards series.

320

I don't get this. I want my best pitcher(s) going against them. I assume they're fearing for retaliation from St. Louis? I'm sure that's contributing, but I still want him out there.

membengal
08-29-2010, 05:17 PM
May be more Cincy's concern that the moment and emotions do not get into Cueto's head.

WebScorpion
08-29-2010, 05:25 PM
What this says to me is that the Cards have to manipulate their rotation if they are to have a chance. The Reds don't. They can pitch their starters based on what's best for them overall.That's what it says to me too. Larussa is sacrificing his other games to concentrate on the Reds...not very smart when all the games count the same in the standings. In fact, this move may lose them the Wild Card race. Most teams with a weak back end of their rotation move their best starters UP in the rotation at this time of the year. Moving them BACK gives more starts to the worst pitchers. Tony's just TOO smart for me. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

WebScorpion
08-29-2010, 05:29 PM
Contend for more than the NL Central.
We need to GET to the playoffs before we start worrying about the playoffs. ;)

Brutus
08-29-2010, 05:30 PM
May be more Cincy's concern that the moment and emotions do not get into Cueto's head.

That's a good possibility. The fact the Reds aren't taking this seriously as the Cardinals might be working to their advantage. The Reds are grasping the big picture, where the Cardinals continue focusing too much on one team.

membengal
08-29-2010, 05:31 PM
That's a good possibility. The fact the Reds aren't taking this seriously as the Cardinals might be working to their advantage. The Reds are grasping the big picture, where the Cardinals continue focusing too much on one team.

That's certainly crossing my mind at this point.

The Cardinals certainly have not responded well to their success in Cincy, perhaps they built that series up to be more important than it was, as nothing was settled when they boarded the plane after the sweep.

Again, I give a lot of credit to Dusty for how the Reds refocused after that series.

Caveat Emperor
08-29-2010, 05:47 PM
May be more Cincy's concern that the moment and emotions do not get into Cueto's head.

I'm actually more worried about a fastball going right for Cueto's head. He may be our guy, but he kicked another man in the head and put him out for the year. I'm not putting it past ANYONE on the Cardinal's staff to go headhunting if Cueto gets into the batter's box.

Brutus
08-29-2010, 05:53 PM
I'm actually more worried about a fastball going right for Cueto's head. He may be our guy, but he kicked another man in the head and put him out for the year. I'm not putting it past ANYONE on the Cardinal's staff to go headhunting if Cueto gets into the batter's box.

He's only out for the year because the Cardinals wanted an excuse to put him on the DL and complain.

I know that sounds funny to say, but I mean it. I honestly don't believe for a second he would be out more than a couple of weeks if they really wanted. They're just trying to exaggerate the extent of the incident to vilify Cueto and the Reds. They can afford to do it because it was a player that wasn't performing for them.

redsfandan
08-29-2010, 05:53 PM
That's what it says to me too. Larussa is sacrificing his other games to concentrate on the Reds...not very smart when all the games count the same in the standings. In fact, this move may lose them the Wild Card race. Most teams with a weak back end of their rotation move their best starters UP in the rotation at this time of the year. Moving them BACK gives more starts to the worst pitchers. Tony's just TOO smart for me. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
C'mon man, don't ya know LaRussa is a genius? :rolleyes:

sabometrics
08-29-2010, 07:11 PM
I'm fine with the Cards beating us around like a ragdoll as long as they're playing at a .333 clip against the rest of the league. Let them tinker as much as they want. We'll probably still take one no matter what they do, maybe two I hope.

Caseyfan21
08-29-2010, 07:16 PM
I'm actually more worried about a fastball going right for Cueto's head. He may be our guy, but he kicked another man in the head and put him out for the year. I'm not putting it past ANYONE on the Cardinal's staff to go headhunting if Cueto gets into the batter's box.

I really doubt the Cards would do that. Umps will know the history going into the series so if Cueto gets beaned I'm guessing the Cards pitcher will get an automatic boot out of the game. And if the Cards want to get into beanball war I'm sure a Chapman fastball wouldn't feel to good in Pujols' ribs. :)

mth123
08-29-2010, 07:36 PM
He's only out for the year because the Cardinals wanted an excuse to put him on the DL and complain.

I know that sounds funny to say, but I mean it. I honestly don't believe for a second he would be out more than a couple of weeks if they really wanted. They're just trying to exaggerate the extent of the incident to vilify Cueto and the Reds. They can afford to do it because it was a player that wasn't performing for them.

I think this is probably true, but the fastball to Cueto's head will still do the same amount of damage. I agree with keeping him off the field against the Cards. Heck I'd just send him straight to Colorado and not even have him with the team in St. Louis.

Ghosts of 1990
08-29-2010, 08:02 PM
I don't know how I feel about this series yet, but I think we'll see Cueto. I remember Dusty saying something to the effect of "he has to pitch against them (St. Louis) again at some point".

I would love to go into St. Louis with a 6 game cushion instead of a 5-game lead, making the Cardinals needing a sweep to even be able to sniff. That would allow our guys to play extremely relaxed no matter what happens. Then if they take one, we're still sitting pretty and with time and games still eating away at that magic #. Time is the Cardinals biggest enemy right now, and they're running out of nights to make a move with each day we cross off on the calendar. I have faith in our guys to play a few tight games out there and come away with at least a win, that's not asking for much from a team whom is 20 games over at this point in the season.

muddie
08-29-2010, 08:05 PM
I guess it is already stated here at some point, but Cueto will not start in the St. Louis series according to Brennaman and 'Cowboy' today. The flip side of this is it sounds like Travis Wood will get a start in that series unless his performance today changes some minds on this.

The guys made a good point, why would you subject one of your better starters to standing at the plate and getting thrown at, or worse. LaRue is gone for the year as a result of Cueto kicking him in the face. Brantley stated that if he was a player for St. Louis and Cueto was pitching against his team, he'd expect some retaliation in this series. Cueto or not, there may be some issues in this series. Between Phillips comments and the push and shove...and kick, I think this is going to be interesting.

The Operator
08-29-2010, 08:05 PM
And if the Cards want to get into beanball war I'm sure a Chapman fastball wouldn't feel to good in Pujols' ribs. :)

Forget the ribs, go for the eye socket. If they decide to play that game (and by that I mean trying to seriously injure Cueto or another one of our guys), they can do it knowing full well that we have a 105 MPH weapon sitting out in the bullpen. Kinda tough to top that.

I don't think anything happens though. MLB and the umps are well aware of the bad blood and I don't think The Cards will risk getting ejected in an important game like that.

WebScorpion
08-30-2010, 01:06 AM
I still can't believe he's going to start Suppan against Figueroa whose ERA is under 3.00 IIRC... This sets them up for another possible sweep by the Astros depending upon who they put up against Rodriguez on Tuesday. Also, are they going to make up their game with the Marlins on Thursday? If so, who would pitch that? I can't help but think this whole thing is going to backfire on geniussa. :rolleyes:

kaldaniels
08-30-2010, 01:09 AM
Cueto has his comeuppance coming. It may be 2011, but he will get his. I just hope he gets stung with a pitch and life goes on...but to think the Cardinal clubhouse doesn't have some sort of bounty on him is naive.

The Operator
08-30-2010, 01:34 AM
Cueto has his comeuppance coming. It may be 2011, but he will get his. I just hope he gets stung with a pitch and life goes on...but to think the Cardinal clubhouse doesn't have some sort of bounty on him is naive.
They'd best be careful, though.

We do have The Cuban Missile.

The Operator
08-30-2010, 01:36 AM
I still can't believe he's going to start Suppan against Figueroa whose ERA is under 3.00 IIRC... This sets them up for another possible sweep by the Astros depending upon who they put up against Rodriguez on Tuesday. Also, are they going to make up their game with the Marlins on Thursday? If so, who would pitch that? I can't help but think this whole thing is going to backfire on geniussa. :rolleyes:

I say let Tony keep genius-ing his way along. He's already looking past The Astros toward our weekend series, and The Astros have already proven they can take it to The Cardinals.

Captain Hook
08-30-2010, 01:50 AM
Bring em on.This sends a message to the Reds after the last series when they were shut down by the big 3.It seems to me that this Reds team is much better at answering messages then sending them.

muddie
08-30-2010, 08:55 AM
They'd best be careful, though.

We do have The Cuban Missile.

Here too, I don't believe it wise to expect a kid just getting off the bus from Louisville to be thrown head first into this situation. I hope the brass are smarter than this. Chapman has enough on his plate when he gets here without this.

PuffyPig
08-30-2010, 09:02 AM
Cueto isn't pitching becuase it's not his turn.

The Reds aren't going to hold him back (having to start Volquez, or Maloney etc.) simply to accomodate matchups.

As someone said, this is the time to move up your best starters with off days, not move them back.

OnBaseMachine
08-30-2010, 12:32 PM
The Reds have to win at least one of these three games in St. Louis. By winning one game, the Reds would only lose one game in the standings. I would pitch Arroyo/Bailey/Wood in the series. The Cards have yet to see Wood, Bailey has pitched well against them in his last three starts, and Arroyo has had some good games against them, including a complete game win earlier in the season.

Degenerate39
08-30-2010, 12:39 PM
If the Reds were to sweep the Cards (unlikely but possible) would the magic number drop by 6?

oneupper
08-30-2010, 12:40 PM
If the Reds were to sweep the Cards (unlikely but possible) would the magic number drop by 6?

yes it would :thumbup:

kaldaniels
08-30-2010, 12:40 PM
If the Reds were to sweep the Cards (unlikely but possible) would the magic number drop by 6?

You bet.

bucksfan2
08-30-2010, 12:43 PM
The Reds have to win at least one of these three games in St. Louis. By winning one game, the Reds would only lose one game in the standings. I would pitch Arroyo/Bailey/Wood in the series. The Cards have yet to see Wood, Bailey has pitched well against them in his last three starts, and Arroyo has had some good games against them, including a complete game win earlier in the season.

I agree with the first part. If the Reds take one game they only lose one in the standings at worst. I get what the Cards are doing in starting their best 3 starters against the Reds but it really front loads the rotation. It has them lead up to and following the Reds series with 2 sub-par pitchers. Sure they outclassed the Reds starting their 3 games series in Cincy but since leaving town with a 1 game lead they have lost 6 games in the standings.

I guess the way I look at it its 3 games out of 162. If the Reds win a game or more it makes this move by LaRussa counter productive.

WebScorpion
08-30-2010, 04:45 PM
If the Reds were to sweep the Cards (unlikely but possible) would the magic number drop by 6?
Yes, it would and that is exactly why the series is so important to the Cards! Each win is worth a whole game in the standings instead of a half game and having to wait to see if the competition wins or loses. I think the Cards fear the Reds now...they know in their hearts the Reds are a better team and they're hoping the young Reds players don't figure it out before this weekend. This team picks each other up...when Votto and Rolen have off days, Bruce or Stubbs or Janish steps up. Even Cairo, Nix, and Heisey are in on it. They all excel at different times. The one thing I haven't seen these guys do is fire on all cylinders. To have all the key players hot at the same time would make this team unstoppable.

medford
08-30-2010, 04:57 PM
random question generated by this thread.

Situation 1: A pitcher gets hurt throw a pitch, a guy from the bullpen comes in and has as long as he wants to warm up and get ready.

Situation 2: A pitcher gets hurt by a thrown pitch and has to come out of the game for a pinch runner. The next batter is quickly retired for the final out, before the guy in the bullpen can get up and warmed up enough for his typical 8 pitches b/w innings. Would the next pitcher get as many pitches as he needs to warm up, or would he only get 8? I assume the easy way around this, is to get someone up quickly and even if the prior inning ends quickly, the pinch runner goes to the mound while the reliever continues to warm up, then the manager makes a switch at the start of the next frame so he can be sure he's warmed up.

WebScorpion
08-31-2010, 12:09 AM
With Suppan finishing up that Houston series the Cards will be lucky to win one game now. The Reds should have at least a 6 game lead going into the series...it could possibly be as much as 8. :eek: The Redbirds are fading fast...a series win for the Reds in St. Louis would be the end of any real threat. :thumbup:

reds44
08-31-2010, 12:10 AM
This is a horrible attitude to have and I would normally yell at people for saying this, but just go in there and don't get swept. Win one and I'll be happy.

Captain Hook
08-31-2010, 03:41 AM
This is a horrible attitude to have and I would normally yell at people for saying this, but just go in there and don't get swept. Win one and I'll be happy.

I agree to an extent but the thing is, the Reds have a 6 game lead.If things were the other way around we'd be giving up.There is now good reason to be very confident.

nemesis
08-31-2010, 04:04 AM
What amazes me is the Reds 6 game lead is the BIGGEST in all of the NL. {eople are still cowering in fear. This isn't any team before this. It's a brand new bag... Heck they are only a .5 game out of home field advantage thought out the playoffs. (Thanks Bud)

Start to look up instead of down...

LoganBuck
08-31-2010, 08:36 AM
What amazes me is the Reds 6 game lead is the BIGGEST in all of the NL. {eople are still cowering in fear. This isn't any team before this. It's a brand new bag... Heck they are only a .5 game out of home field advantage thought out the playoffs. (Thanks Bud)

Start to look up instead of down...

Death to the Padres!

traderumor
08-31-2010, 10:00 AM
I wonder if LaRussa will stick to his guns or throw Garcia Wednesday if they are facing a sweep at Houston? It would seem to me if they are 6 or 7 out going into tomorrow's game, that Wednesday becomes a must win for them and it is all moot if they head into the weekend 6-8 games out.

Regardless, come on Wandy, shut down the Cards two nights in a row with soft-tossing lefties.

Chip R
08-31-2010, 12:51 PM
I just hope the Reds advance scouts are watching these games the Cards are playing and can tell the Reds how to beat them because the way they have tried previously didn't work but all these scrub teams are like kryponite to the Cards.

George Anderson
08-31-2010, 01:02 PM
Situation 2: A pitcher gets hurt by a thrown pitch and has to come out of the game for a pinch runner. The next batter is quickly retired for the final out, before the guy in the bullpen can get up and warmed up enough for his typical 8 pitches b/w innings. Would the next pitcher get as many pitches as he needs to warm up, or would he only get 8? I assume the easy way around this, is to get someone up quickly and even if the prior inning ends quickly, the pinch runner goes to the mound while the reliever continues to warm up, then the manager makes a switch at the start of the next frame so he can be sure he's warmed up.

According to NFHS rules, the relief pitcher would get as many pitches as needed regardless of how or when the original pitcher was hurt. The spirit of the rule in regards to unlimited warmups pitches is so the replacement pitcher is not hurt warming up with so few pitches being allowed. How the pitcher was hurt would not factor in how many warmup pitches the reliever would get. I would assume MLB has the same rule.

It is a good question BTW...made me think.

medford
08-31-2010, 01:04 PM
According to NFHS rules, the relief pitcher would get as many pitches as needed regardless of how or when the original pitcher was hurt. The spirit of the rule in regards to unlimited warmups pitches is so the replacement pitcher is not hurt warming up with so few pitches being allowed. How the pitcher was hurt would not factor in how many warmup pitches the reliever would get. I would assume MLB has the same rule.

It is a good question BTW...made me think.

Thanks, makes sense as its in the spirit of the rule, but you tony Tony Baseball would make it a point to argue the rule if given the opportunity.

George Anderson
08-31-2010, 01:06 PM
Thanks, makes sense as its in the spirit of the rule, but you tony Tony Baseball would make it a point to argue the rule if given the opportunity.

I thought the exact same thing when typing this. He was the first Manager to pop in my mind who would do that.

Chip R
08-31-2010, 01:14 PM
I think I've seen this before - or something similar - and the relief pitcher got as much time to warm up as he needed.

LoganBuck
08-31-2010, 02:59 PM
I think I've seen this before - or something similar - and the relief pitcher got as much time to warm up as he needed.

Seems like a few years back a pitcher from a team with grey and blue uniforms, while playing the Reds, tweaked something running the bases, and the relief pitcher got all the time he needed. I can draw a mental picture of it happening, but can't remember the exact circumstances.

bucksfan2
09-02-2010, 09:47 AM
Backfired!

I thought of this as soon and the Cards got swept by the Stros. They frontloaded their rotation for the Reds series but got beat soundly by the Astros while the Reds swept the Brewers. LaRussa basically puts a weaker team out there two days leading up to the Reds series and two days after the Reds series. When you look at the grand scheme of things, in a 162 game season all 162 game count the same.

I know LaRussa invented baseball but it doesn't make much sense to me to have your 1 and 2 pitchers pitching back to back.