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View Full Version : Sometimes WP is a really stupid stat



redssince75
08-29-2010, 05:57 PM
If he had pitched to the end of his rough inning, wouldn't Rhodes have gotten the W today? For the honor of giving up several hits and the tying run in 1 inning's work?

I know the official scorer has the power to do something about that, but I've never seen one do it.

sivman17
08-29-2010, 06:04 PM
wins and losses are pretty pointless for relievers.. but someone has to get the win

GIDP
08-29-2010, 06:06 PM
Its pointless no matter it reliever or starter. Wins and Losses have zero to do with what the pitcher on the mound does. Felix Hernandez is going to lose the AL Cy Young this year because his team scores 3 runs a game.

Wins and losses are bad ways to judge pitchers.

RedsFanInBama
08-29-2010, 06:18 PM
Wins and Losses have zero to do with what the pitcher on the mound does.
I get the argument that wins and losses to a degree are out of a pitcher's hands, but to say they have zero to do with what the pitcher does on the mound is foolish. The best pitchers GENERALLY win the most games. Not always, but generally.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 06:59 PM
I get the argument that wins and losses to a degree are out of a pitcher's hands, but to say they have zero to do with what the pitcher does on the mound is foolish. The best pitchers GENERALLY win the most games. Not always, but generally.

Its a total team dependent stat. Its the same as giving a first baseman a win/loss record.

redssince75
08-29-2010, 07:07 PM
Its a total team dependent stat. Its the same as giving a first baseman a win/loss record.

Actually no, that's a ridiculous comparison. For relievers it's often an absurd stat, but starting pitchers have far more control over how many runs the opposing team scores than 1B do (or any other baseman or fielder).

Therefore it's a pretty relevant stat for a starting pitcher. But not for a relief pitcher, especially in a situation like today's.

RedsLvr
08-29-2010, 07:18 PM
So is batting average a bad statistic for batters since they often get robbed of a hit by a great defensive play? No.

Tampa Red
08-29-2010, 07:24 PM
So is batting average a bad statistic for batters since they often get robbed of a hit by a great defensive play? No.

I dunno. I'd say BA is more useless than W/L but that's just me. Neither stat is ideal when examining a player's abilities.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 07:53 PM
Actually no, that's a ridiculous comparison. For relievers it's often an absurd stat, but starting pitchers have far more control over how many runs the opposing team scores than 1B do (or any other baseman or fielder).

Therefore it's a pretty relevant stat for a starting pitcher. But not for a relief pitcher, especially in a situation like today's.

The stat is useless anyways. At a glance it could tell you something about how good a pitcher is but it really tells you nothing.

Felix Hernandez is striking out 8.5 per 9 walking 2.5 per 9 with a whip of 1.11 and an ERA of 2.47

Hes 10-10.

Phil hughes 7.6 K/9 and 2.7 bb/9 WHIP of 1.25 and an ERA of 4.12

Hes 15-6

Sorry but wins and losses are really pointless no matter who you put them on. You can go through history and find guys who stink yet win games, and find guys like Nolan Ryan in 87 when he had the leagues lowest ERA and went 8-16.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 07:55 PM
So is batting average a bad statistic for batters since they often get robbed of a hit by a great defensive play? No.

Batting average is a bad way to judge how good or productive a hitter is.

RedsLvr
08-29-2010, 08:08 PM
I dunno. I'd say BA is more useless than W/L but that's just me. Neither stat is ideal when examining a player's abilities.

I think your getting ability and POTENTIAL mixed up..

RedsLvr
08-29-2010, 08:10 PM
Batting average is a bad way to judge how good or productive a hitter is.

Um, not really...BA, BA w/ RISP, RBIs, and OBP are the most important batting statistics to me.

Krawhitham
08-29-2010, 08:41 PM
The stat is useless anyways. At a glance it could tell you something about how good a pitcher is but it really tells you nothing.

Felix Hernandez is striking out 8.5 per 9 walking 2.5 per 9 with a whip of 1.11 and an ERA of 2.47

Hes 10-10.

Phil hughes 7.6 K/9 and 2.7 bb/9 WHIP of 1.25 and an ERA of 4.12

Hes 15-6

Sorry but wins and losses are really pointless no matter who you put them on. You can go through history and find guys who stink yet win games, and find guys like Nolan Ryan in 87 when he had the leagues lowest ERA and went 8-16.


It is the only stat that matters, if you have 5 starters all with 20 wins, guess what that team is going to the playoffs even if the team ERA is 10.86


The most useless stat for a pitcher is strikeouts, I do not care if they strike them out, ground them out, fly ball them out. An out is an out PERIOD


As a general rule Wins will let you know how good a pitcher is, there are a couple exceptions every year. But to rule out Wins as being relevant because of a couple exceptions is bat s**t crazy

Boston Red
08-29-2010, 08:48 PM
The most useless stat for a pitcher is strikeouts, I do not care if they strike them out, ground them out, fly ball them out. An out is an out PERIOD


I sense a lecture on BABIP coming. (Definitely not from me, though)

Vottomatic
08-29-2010, 08:57 PM
It's no coincidence that Arroyo is probably going to have his best season wins-wise because he's playing on his best team.

Yeah, you have to be a good pitcher, but if you play on a lousy club, those win totals will be alot less than you deserve.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 10:11 PM
Um, not really...BA, BA w/ RISP, RBIs, and OBP are the most important batting statistics to me.

They shouldnt be, well other than OBP since that really is a important stat.

GIDP
08-29-2010, 10:14 PM
It is the only stat that matters, if you have 5 starters all with 20 wins, guess what that team is going to the playoffs even if the team ERA is 10.86


The most useless stat for a pitcher is strikeouts, I do not care if they strike them out, ground them out, fly ball them out. An out is an out PERIOD


As a general rule Wins will let you know how good a pitcher is, there are a couple exceptions every year. But to rule out Wins as being relevant because of a couple exceptions is bat s**t crazy

Well that would be true because the team would score a ton of runs to make up for the 10 runs a game. The terrible pitching didnt earn those wins, the offense that scored 3000 runs did.

RedsFanInBama
08-29-2010, 11:34 PM
Its a total team dependent stat. Its the same as giving a first baseman a win/loss record.
It is heavily team dependent, but it's not totally team dependent. The pitcher has more say in how many runs the opposition scores than any other position. Of course there are going to be anomalies, but to say that wins and losses have nothing to do with the pitcher is absurd.