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texasdave
08-29-2010, 11:48 PM
The N.L. hasn't seen a Triple Crown winner since 1937. As the season heads into September there are three legitimate candidates. This is crazy.
Any of the three get hot in the last month and they could end up making history. :beerme:


PLAYER AVE RBI HR
Votto .325-2nd 93-2nd 32-2nd
Pujols .320-3rd 95-1st 35-1st
Gonzalz .326-1st 90-3rd 29-4th

GIDP
08-30-2010, 12:10 AM
I wonder if 3 players have ever finished top 3 in all 3 categories in a single season?

MikeThierry
08-30-2010, 05:11 AM
The thing that is shocking to me is Gonzalez's home/road splits. He is batting .380 at home but is batting only .267 on the road. I think this will have some effect on his standing for triple crown towards the end of the year. I read a ridiculous article written by a person at ESPN where he said he would take Gonzalez over Pujols and Votto. With Pujols and Votto, at least you get consistent great play for them no matter what ball park they play in.

gmt
08-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Imagine Pujols and Votto playing half their games at Coors Field. Barry Bonds "record" would be toast already.

R_Webb18
08-30-2010, 04:04 PM
Imagine Pujols and Votto playing half their games at Coors Field. Barry Bonds "record" would be toast already.

votto plays in a homerun park.

gmt
08-30-2010, 04:17 PM
votto plays in a homerun park.

There is no "homerun park" like the launching pad at Coors.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 04:26 PM
There is no "homerun park" like the launching pad at Coors.

True statement.

Coors is 1st in the ML in runs given up, and 3rd in HRs.
GABP is 8th in runs, 6th in HRs.

Yankee Stadium yields the most, followed by U.S. Cellular.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

Although in 2009 GABP was more of a HR park than Coors

scott91575
08-30-2010, 04:39 PM
There is no "homerun park" like the launching pad at Coors.

Coors is no longer the top home run park since the humidor (GABP gives up more HR's per game). It's about 9th this year in HR/game.

Coors is still a hitters park due to it's dimensions though. Just too much outfield to cover, and the ball still flies more there than most parks.

winks
08-30-2010, 05:19 PM
The thing I see most with Votto (the clear MVP choice) is the HR. he doesnt try to hit HRs. He's trying to get a hit, to drive the ball, if it goes out it goes out. I dont watch the other 2 enough to see what they do, but Votto doesnt seem to try and hit HRs. He just does sometimes. So if he comes up short in a category it will be HRs. But thats fine with me.

gmt
08-30-2010, 05:29 PM
The thing I see most with Votto (the clear MVP choice) is the HR. he doesnt try to hit HRs. He's trying to get a hit, to drive the ball, if it goes out it goes out. I dont watch the other 2 enough to see what they do, but Votto doesnt seem to try and hit HRs. He just does sometimes. So if he comes up short in a category it will be HRs. But thats fine with me.

I don't know anything about Gonzales. Pujols doesn't really look to hit hr's. He hits it hard and they go out, mostly as line drives. McGwire was the home run hitters swing. High towering blasts. Look at the batting averages of the sluggers. Generally, high average with HR's means they are good hitters whose batted balls find themselves clearing the fence often.

RedsLvr
08-30-2010, 06:31 PM
The thing I see most with Votto (the clear MVP choice) is the HR. he doesnt try to hit HRs. He's trying to get a hit, to drive the ball, if it goes out it goes out. I dont watch the other 2 enough to see what they do, but Votto doesnt seem to try and hit HRs. He just does sometimes. So if he comes up short in a category it will be HRs. But thats fine with me.

Nah, it's likely Votto is going to be way short in BA.

Vottomatic
08-30-2010, 06:34 PM
Let's headhunt Pujols this weekend, and knock him out of the triple crown race.







JUST KIDDING.

Natty Redlocks
08-30-2010, 06:45 PM
I'd love to see Votto do it. But Pujols is the better player, and if anyone does it, it probably will be him.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Pujols is the better player

nah

RedsLvr
08-30-2010, 06:52 PM
No one in the NL is even close to the triple crown...

sivman17
08-30-2010, 07:04 PM
No one in the NL is even close to the triple crown...

nah

scott91575
08-30-2010, 08:01 PM
No one in the NL is even close to the triple crown...

No one in the AL has a pitcher batting 3 spots in front of him except maybe 9 times a year (hence why it's broken up into leagues).

RedsLvr
08-30-2010, 08:09 PM
No one in the AL has a pitcher batting 3 spots in front of him except maybe 9 times a year (hence why it's broken up into leagues).

Ok let me clarify. No one in the NL is close to the NL Triple Crown..

texasdave
08-30-2010, 08:10 PM
Ok let me clarify. No one in the NL is close to the NL Triple Crown..

Can you clarify a little further please?

RedsLvr
08-30-2010, 08:14 PM
Can you clarify a little further please?

Does the name Omar Infante ring a bell? He is currently batting .341 and will soon reach the minimum at bats for his BA to register for the batting title. So basically, it would make the current to leaders in BA (Votto in Pujols) to raise their BA about another .020 points in the last month of the season if Infante keeps his current pace, and I have no reason to believe that he wont.

texasdave
08-30-2010, 08:15 PM
RBI opportunities:

ROB = Runners on Base
IBB = Intentional Base on Balls


Name ROB IBB
Pujols 374 32
Votto 319 4
Gonzalz 285 5

texasdave
08-30-2010, 08:22 PM
Does the name Omar Infante ring a bell? He is currently batting .341 and will soon reach the minimum at bats for his BA to register for the batting title. So basically, it would make the current to leaders in BA (Votto in Pujols) to raise their BA about another .020 points in the last month of the season if Infante keeps his current pace, and I have no reason to believe that he wont.

Is this the same Omar Infante that came into the season with over 2300 PA and a lifetime .264 BA? Yes, no reason to think he won't keep hitting .340.

RedsLvr
08-30-2010, 08:28 PM
Is this the same Omar Infante that came into the season with over 2300 PA and a lifetime .264 BA? Yes, no reason to think he won't keep hitting .340.

Look at his batting in THE LAST 3 YEARS. Obviously he's improved in his batting. Even if he doesn't keep pace, it would be unlikely for him to finish under .330, which would still make it hard for anyone else to pass him.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 08:43 PM
Does the name Omar Infante ring a bell? He is currently batting .341 and will soon reach the minimum at bats for his BA to register for the batting title. So basically, it would make the current to leaders in BA (Votto in Pujols) to raise their BA about another .020 points in the last month of the season if Infante keeps his current pace, and I have no reason to believe that he wont.

He was also batting .350 just a week ago and now he's down to .341. He didn't even get above .320 until mid July. He had an outstanding July but has since cooled off since he started playing every day.

He's only .015 points above CarGo. I could easily see him dropping his BA in the last month.

sivman17
08-30-2010, 08:47 PM
Also, he isn't that close to even qualifying. Braves have played 130 games, which means he would need 403 PA to qualify. He's at 360 PA. By the end of the season he will need at least 502 PA. It comes out to 4.44 PA per game for the rest of the season. That doesn't sound like much, but that means he can't really afford to miss any games or he risks not qualifying.

And he's definitely not going to qualify soon as you said.

scott91575
08-30-2010, 08:53 PM
Look at his batting in THE LAST 3 YEARS. Obviously he's improved in his batting. Even if he doesn't keep pace, it would be unlikely for him to finish under .330, which would still make it hard for anyone else to pass him.

He will barely make the minimum plate appearances if he keeps playing at his current pace. Troy Glaus comes off the DL soon, and will see some time at 3B. Prado moves to 2B on those days. Of course PA's short just turn into outs, but if he comes up 20 short (very possible) that is 20 more outs. That would drop his current BA to .322. Right now he needs to average over 4.4 PA's a game to get to 502. That is right about what he averages for the past month, but he has played in every game (pretty much every inning). If he gets 4 or 5 days off in the next month (very possible), then he is essentially tied in BA. If he goes cold (like his last 22 PA's) for another week you can pretty much guarantee he will start sitting, and that will destroy his chances.

davereds24
08-31-2010, 01:56 AM
I don't think Bobby is going to bench his best player for Troy Glaus.

scott91575
08-31-2010, 05:42 AM
I don't think Bobby is going to bench his best player for Troy Glaus.

Not every day, but he is going to get some rest in the final month. Glaus will get some time at 3rd to rest Prado and Infante.

gmt
08-31-2010, 11:51 AM
Why would Bobby Cox rest his leadoff hitter if he is still getting the job done. It's not like they are out of the playoff race or so far ahead they have the division clinched. Infante will probably play daily as long as the race is close in the eastern division. 4.4 PA's per game is not much. He had 5 PA's last night. It's easy to get 4 PA's at the leadoff spot because unless your team has just had a perfect game thrown at it or if you are the home team and only need to play 8 innings, the leadoff hitter will almost always get 4 PA's. Turn over the lineup once (9 players get on base) which isn't an uncommon occurence, and the leadoff hitter gets 5 PA's. Infante might not get to ecactly or exceed 502 PA's but if not he will likely be very close. A lot closer than 20 less.

He had 2 hits out of 4 AB's last night. If he hit .300 with the remaining PA's/AB's needed he would still be at .330 by the end of the year. It would be disappointing for sure for a triple crown to be lost in this manner, especially if hittless AB'sare added on to get Infante to the required PA's and he still wins the batting title.

cw0802
08-31-2010, 05:41 PM
nah


Disagree greatly. When Votto has 10 seasons in a row of hitting 30+ HR, .300 + BA and 100 + RBI...then you can say Votto is in the same league as Pujols.

bshall2105
08-31-2010, 05:52 PM
Disagree greatly. When Votto has 10 seasons in a row of hitting 30+ HR, .300 + BA and 100 + RBI...then you can say Votto is in the same league as Pujols.

This season they are in the same league.

mckbearcat48
08-31-2010, 05:54 PM
This season they are in the same league.

I think they've been in the same league their entire career. J/K, Votto's having a great year this year, and is moving up the ranks of the elite quickly. Albert made the same move 10 years prior.

gmt
08-31-2010, 06:14 PM
Votto will be fine. He has a long way to catch up to Pujols as an established consistent slugger with high average. If he can stay healthy he has a chance to be right up there. Pujols has been for the most part healthy for his entire 10 year career despite a few nagging injuries to slow him down. It's great to see the players come along who really distance themselves from their peers of theur generation. Votto could have a chance to be one of those players.

MikeThierry
09-01-2010, 03:38 AM
Well, I wouldn't call what Pujols has gone through as a couple of nagging injuries. This guy has had bone spurs in his elbow, torn ligaments in his elbow, leg problems. He has said that in most years he is only about 80-85 percent healthy.

I think the thing that might hurt Votto's career when compared to Pujols career is that Pujols entered the league at age 21 while Votto entered the league at age 23 but really had his first full year at age 24. While that 3 year difference might not be much, it will hurt him towards the end of Votto's career. Its just like Pujols will not have a chance to touch Alex Rodriguez's home run total, for example, simply because A-Rod started playing when he was 18. I still think Votto has a good chance of being great for years to come.

gmt
09-01-2010, 08:55 AM
Well, I wouldn't call what Pujols has gone through as a couple of nagging injuries. This guy has had bone spurs in his elbow, torn ligaments in his elbow, leg problems. He has said that in most years he is only about 80-85 percent healthy.

I think the thing that might hurt Votto's career when compared to Pujols career is that Pujols entered the league at age 21 while Votto entered the league at age 23 but really had his first full year at age 24. While that 3 year difference might not be much, it will hurt him towards the end of Votto's career. Its just like Pujols will not have a chance to touch Alex Rodriguez's home run total, for example, simply because A-Rod started playing when he was 18. I still think Votto has a good chance of being great for years to come.

I'm not saying Pujols' injuries didn't affect his play. What they didn't do was keep him out of the lineup, probably beacuse of his insistance that he not be disabled. His stats, if you can believe it, suffered during those times. Who knows where he would be today if he didn't have bone spurs, and what appear to be chronic leg/hip problems.

defender
09-01-2010, 03:29 PM
Right now, Votto leads in Ave and RBI. Before Howard got hurt, it did not seem likely he could lead in RBI. I think Infante will reach 502 PAs, but I doubt he keeps his average in the .340s.