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OnBaseMachine
09-25-2010, 02:54 AM
Again, Chapman throws a changeup. Just not out of the bullpen. A lot of relievers only throw two pitches.

But considering Chapman's fastball and slider are both plus-plus pitches, I think he could still be a great starting pitcher. When you have that type of stuff you don't need three or four pitches.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:58 AM
Again, Chapman throws a changeup. Just not out of the bullpen. A lot of relievers only throw two pitches.

But considering Chapman's fastball and slider are both plus-plus pitches, I think he could still be a great starting pitcher. When you have that type of stuff you don't need three or four pitches.

But as I said, if he's going to be a starter, as Jocketty has suggested, two pitches won't cut it. If he's got it, he should be using it now. The only way to develop it and get comfortable with it is by using it in game action.

You do need three or four pitches. That's why some players better project as relievers because if you don't have a quality third pitch, you won't last as a starter. No matter how hard you throw, with two pitches, hitters will start catching up with you after they see you enough.

In the short term, as a reliever, he's fine.

But as I stated immediately, if he doesn't develop (and use in games) a quality third pitch, the ideas of his being a starter should be scrapped.

fearofpopvol1
09-25-2010, 03:05 AM
Chapman made Adrian Gonzalez look absolutely clueless up there. 3 swinging strikes from 1 of the best players in the game. In the words of Thom, "MERCY!"

That 105 pitch...holy smokes. Historical right there. Even the San Diego crowd was "oohing" and "ahhing."

Oxilon
09-25-2010, 03:35 AM
What's Chapman's velocity as a starter? I'm sure there would be some sort of drop-off.

reds44
09-25-2010, 03:43 AM
He's throwing harder then anybody ever has, ever.

I can't wrap my mind around that.

reds44
09-25-2010, 03:50 AM
But as I said, if he's going to be a starter, as Jocketty has suggested, two pitches won't cut it. If he's got it, he should be using it now. The only way to develop it and get comfortable with it is by using it in game action.

You do need three or four pitches. That's why some players better project as relievers because if you don't have a quality third pitch, you won't last as a starter. No matter how hard you throw, with two pitches, hitters will start catching up with you after they see you enough.

In the short term, as a reliever, he's fine.

But as I stated immediately, if he doesn't develop (and use in games) a quality third pitch, the ideas of his being a starter should be scrapped.
You want Chapman developing a third pitch in the middle of a pennant race? We're trying to win the World Series here. Let him work on his other pitch in the AFL and send him back to AAA to start next year if they have to.

You're already assuming he doesn't have a third pitch without ever seeing it.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 04:09 AM
You want Chapman developing a third pitch in the middle of a pennant race? We're trying to win the World Series here. Let him work on his other pitch in the AFL and send him back to AAA to start next year if they have to.

You're already assuming he doesn't have a third pitch without ever seeing it.

The fact he's willing to throw 25 fastballs in 25 pitches should be telling enough that he doesn't have it. He's throw exactly two pitches so far in over 10 innings.

Even in a relief setting, he would do himself a favor by throwing a third pitch. Having a changeup or some other offspeed pitch in addition to the slider would only serve to benefit him, even if he's just in 'trial' mode.

fearofpopvol1
09-25-2010, 04:52 AM
The fact he's willing to throw 25 fastballs in 25 pitches should be telling enough that he doesn't have it. He's throw exactly two pitches so far in over 10 innings.

Even in a relief setting, he would do himself a favor by throwing a third pitch. Having a changeup or some other offspeed pitch in addition to the slider would only serve to benefit him, even if he's just in 'trial' mode.

He's thrown a changeup before in past appearances, albeit not often. The pitch looked good too...not as devastating as his fastball or his slider, but at least an average pitch.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 04:57 AM
He's thrown a changeup before in past appearances, albeit not often. The pitch looked good too...not as devastating as his fastball or his slider, but at least an average pitch.

According to Fangraphs, which gets its' data from Baseball Info Solutions (a pretty reputable source), he has only thrown 2 different pitches this year. Fangraphs does not register him as throwing a changeup.

mth123
09-25-2010, 09:47 AM
The fact he's willing to throw 25 fastballs in 25 pitches should be telling enough that he doesn't have it. He's throw exactly two pitches so far in over 10 innings.

Even in a relief setting, he would do himself a favor by throwing a third pitch. Having a changeup or some other offspeed pitch in addition to the slider would only serve to benefit him, even if he's just in 'trial' mode.

Nope. He's not going through line-ups multiple times. No reason to throw a third pitch that is of lesser quality in a competitive setting. Maybe after the Reds clinch he could experiment a bit, but if he's going back to starting next year, he'll need to build innings in AAA and add that thrd pitch there. The Fastball and Slider is all he shold throw in any game that matters this year. If he stays a reliever, leave the third pitch in the pen.

Big Klu
09-25-2010, 10:31 AM
I got the feeling that Chapman decided not to show the Padres his slider last night, just in case he has to use it against them in an important game later.

Either that, or he couldn't get a feel for it while warming up in the bullpen last night.

BCubb2003
09-25-2010, 10:59 AM
The guy threw 25 pitches, all above 100 mph. Yes, he'll need a changeup, but think about that for a minute.

dougdirt
09-25-2010, 12:16 PM
According to Fangraphs, which gets its' data from Baseball Info Solutions (a pretty reputable source), he has only thrown 2 different pitches this year. Fangraphs does not register him as throwing a changeup.

I don't think he has thrown a change up in the majors yet, but he does have it and does throw it as a starter.

westofyou
09-25-2010, 12:39 PM
According to Fangraphs, which gets its' data from Baseball Info Solutions (a pretty reputable source), he has only thrown 2 different pitches this year. Fangraphs does not register him as throwing a changeup.


Total Pitches 159
Fastball 94 59.00%
Slider 36 23.00%
Not Charted 29 18.00%

vs. RHB vs. LHB
Total Pitches 109 50
Outs Recorded 18 11
Fastball 64 59.00% 30 60.00%
Slider 27 25.00% 9 18.00%
Not Charted 18 17.00% 11 22.00%

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't think he has thrown a change up in the majors yet, but he does have it and does throw it as a starter.

I assumed he had thrown one in the minors when he was starting, but it's just very peculiar he's only thrown two pitches in the majors.

I just think contrary to what people think, he's not better off sticking with two pitches, even for the rest of the year, though I think he could get away with it more times than not. When, on the nights he's throwing fastballs and pitchers are sitting dead red, I don't care how fast you're throwing, you're making it easier for them to hit you.

westofyou
09-25-2010, 12:42 PM
He's throwing harder then anybody ever has, ever.

I can't wrap my mind around that.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=sh-redspadres092410



Aroldis Chapman was summoned from the bullpen one batter too late to make a difference in the game. No matter. The 22-year-old Cincinnati Reds left-hander made do by making history Friday night, throwing the fastest pitch recorded in a major league game, a 105-mph fastball.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:45 PM
Total Pitches 159
Fastball 94 59.00%
Slider 36 23.00%
Not Charted 29 18.00%

vs. RHB vs. LHB
Total Pitches 109 50
Outs Recorded 18 11
Fastball 64 59.00% 30 60.00%
Slider 27 25.00% 9 18.00%
Not Charted 18 17.00% 11 22.00%



Actually, it's strange because on second glance, Fangraphs has the fastball and slider being thrown essentially 73 and 27% of the time, which my A- math skills tells me is 100%.

But what I didn't notice last night was the 18% unknown tucked over on the right. I'm not sure how they're counting those.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10233&position=P#pitchtype


Pitch Type
Show Minor Leagues | Quick Glossary
Season Team FB SL CT CB CH SF KN XX PO
Total
- - -
72.3% (99.9)
27.7% (87.8)
18.2%

Griffey012
09-25-2010, 12:53 PM
But as I said, if he's going to be a starter, as Jocketty has suggested, two pitches won't cut it. If he's got it, he should be using it now. The only way to develop it and get comfortable with it is by using it in game action.

You do need three or four pitches. That's why some players better project as relievers because if you don't have a quality third pitch, you won't last as a starter. No matter how hard you throw, with two pitches, hitters will start catching up with you after they see you enough.

In the short term, as a reliever, he's fine.

But as I stated immediately, if he doesn't develop (and use in games) a quality third pitch, the ideas of his being a starter should be scrapped.

Randy Johnson says hello. Randy threw a 3rd pitch, a change or a split finger or both, about 5% of the time in his prime big league career. He threw them much more as he got up there in age and lost velocity. Chapman can apparently throw a change-up, albeit not a good one, but all the needs it for is to let the batters know it is there. He can get by with what he already has, and let the 3rd pitch continue to develop as it goes.

westofyou
09-25-2010, 12:56 PM
Actually, it's strange because on second glance, Fangraphs has the fastball and slider being thrown essentially 73 and 27% of the time, which my A- math skills tells me is 100%.

But what I didn't notice last night was the 18% unknown tucked over on the right. I'm not sure how they're counting those.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10233&position=P#pitchtype


Pitch Type
Show Minor Leagues | Quick Glossary
Season Team FB SL CT CB CH SF KN XX PO
Total
- - -
72.3% (99.9)
27.7% (87.8)
18.2%
Those numbers are from BIS as well as the fangraphs (off the Bill James site)

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:09 PM
Those numbers are from BIS as well as the fangraphs (off the Bill James site)

Thanks. That helps a bit.

Do you know if the uncharted pitches are a pitch not one of the primary two pitches that they weren't sure of, or are they truly uncharted in that it wasn't sure if they were fastballs, sliders or something else? If that was a third/fourth pitch combination, that's actually a solid breakdown IMHO.

IslandRed
09-25-2010, 01:23 PM
I agree the change will be desirable when he moves to the rotation (especially against right-handed hitters), but the Randy Johnson comp is a good one. He threw almost exclusively fastball/slider during his peak years. Many good relievers have the same two-pitch repertoire. If a pitcher's heat is high enough, it basically breaks down to "fastball" or "not fastball" from the hitter's perspective. The offspeed pitch isn't about keeping them from sitting on the fastball, because they have to sit on it to have a chance; it's about punishing them for sitting on the fastball.

RedsManRick
09-25-2010, 01:43 PM
Were he qualified innings-wise, his fastball would be the 2nd most effective fastball in baseball behind Hong Chih-Kuo and his slider would be top 10.

He profiles very similar to Billy Wagner. As a starter, I think you'll see something more like Justin Verlander, which would be a fully legit #1.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 01:46 PM
I agree the change will be desirable when he moves to the rotation (especially against right-handed hitters), but the Randy Johnson comp is a good one. He threw almost exclusively fastball/slider during his peak years. Many good relievers have the same two-pitch repertoire. If a pitcher's heat is high enough, it basically breaks down to "fastball" or "not fastball" from the hitter's perspective. The offspeed pitch isn't about keeping them from sitting on the fastball, because they have to sit on it to have a chance; it's about punishing them for sitting on the fastball.

After the 20th pitch or so over 100MPH last night (can't believe I'm writing that)...I wanted him so bad to just drop a changeup on those guys just to see them flail...gotta think we will see that next year.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 01:49 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=sh-redspadres092410

Gotta think that chart on the page will soon be filled up with nothing but Chapman pitches. (I would think he should be on there more as it is...)

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:49 PM
I agree the change will be desirable when he moves to the rotation (especially against right-handed hitters), but the Randy Johnson comp is a good one. He threw almost exclusively fastball/slider during his peak years. Many good relievers have the same two-pitch repertoire. If a pitcher's heat is high enough, it basically breaks down to "fastball" or "not fastball" from the hitter's perspective. The offspeed pitch isn't about keeping them from sitting on the fastball, because they have to sit on it to have a chance; it's about punishing them for sitting on the fastball.

That's true, but some things that made Johnson effective was that he was close to 50/50 on the fastball/slider, and because he threw it so well, you couldn't decipher the two. Chapman's slider will have to get a lot better, get better command of it and make it look like the fastball to pull that off.

Johnson did occasionally throw a change and (if I remember correctly), a split-finger as well. But his slider was arguably the best in the history of baseball, which allowed him to go back and forth between the two pitches because hitters couldn't distinguish the two out of his hand.

Chapman's stuff is sick. But it's unfair to say that because Randy Johnson was able to do it, he could pull it off. What Randy Johnson did was rare and completely isolated. It takes incredible command and movement of that slider to do what he did. And as mentioned, he did have a few other offspeed pitches that he used effectively at the right times.

OnBaseMachine
09-25-2010, 01:57 PM
That's true, but some things that made Johnson effective was that he was close to 50/50 on the fastball/slider, and because he threw it so well, you couldn't decipher the two. Chapman's slider will have to get a lot better, get better command of it and make it look like the fastball to pull that off.


Wait, his slider needs to get better? How much better can it get? It's already filthy. It's the best slider I've seen since Randy Johnson in his prime. I've read quotes from baseball people who have said the same thing. Chapman's slider is already a plus-plus pitch so there's really not much room for improvement on that pitch.

mth123
09-25-2010, 01:58 PM
That's true, but some things that made Johnson effective was that he was close to 50/50 on the fastball/slider, and because he threw it so well, you couldn't decipher the two. Chapman's slider will have to get a lot better, get better command of it and make it look like the fastball to pull that off.

Johnson did occasionally throw a change and (if I remember correctly), a split-finger as well. But his slider was arguably the best in the history of baseball, which allowed him to go back and forth between the two pitches because hitters couldn't distinguish the two out of his hand.

Chapman's stuff is sick. But it's unfair to say that because Randy Johnson was able to do it, he could pull it off. What Randy Johnson did was rare and completely isolated. It takes incredible command and movement of that slider to do what he did. And as mentioned, he did have a few other offspeed pitches that he used effectively at the right times.

OTOH, while Johnson was a great power arm, his fastball never hit triple digits IIRC. The difference between Johnson's FB and Chapman's is the same as between somebody who throws 95 vs somebody who throws 91. Because of that, maybe Chapman won't need the 50/50 split that Johnson had. I also happen to think that Chapman's slider is pretty darned good and I don't know that it needs to improve as much as you are claiming.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 02:06 PM
He's throwing harder then anybody ever has, ever.

I can't wrap my mind around that.

Yeah, I kept blabbering on about that in the game thread last night. fwiw, I think that if MLB is worried about the rating small market teams will get in the playoffs, people will tune in to see Chapman pitch, if they market him.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:06 PM
Wait, his slider needs to get better? How much better can it get? It's already filthy. It's the best slider I've seen since Randy Johnson in his prime. I've read quotes from baseball people who have said the same thing. Chapman's slider is already a plus-plus pitch so there's really not much room for improvement on that pitch.

You're just looking at the speed & break of the pitch. What makes the slider dangerous is when a pitcher can disguise it as a fastball. It looks like a fastball coming out of the hand, as it has the same arm slot and spin, but then snaps off. Further, you have to be able to consistently control the pitch to make it most effective.

The Reds have even stated that Chapman is not confident yet in controlling his slider, and have to continually refine the arm slot.

Yes, it's a filthy break, but a slider is much more than that. You're only looking at one aspect of the pitch.

OnBaseMachine
09-25-2010, 02:09 PM
You're just looking at the speed & break of the pitch. What makes the slider dangerous is when a pitcher can disguise it as a fastball. It looks like a fastball coming out of the hand, as it has the same arm slot and spin, but then snaps off. Further, you have to be able to consistently control the pitch to make it most effective.

The Reds have even stated that Chapman is not confident yet in controlling his slider, and have to continually refine the arm slot.

Yes, it's a filthy break, but a slider is much more than that. You're only looking at one aspect of the pitch.

Well, that, and the fact that it's fooling the heck out of opposing hitters. I'm really not sure what more you could ask for. I've yet to see a hitter put a good swing on his slider.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:13 PM
OTOH, while Johnson was a great power arm, his fastball never hit triple digits IIRC. The difference between Johnson's FB and Chapman's is the same as between somebody who throws 95 vs somebody who throws 91. Because of that, maybe Chapman won't need the 50/50 split that Johnson had. I also happen to think that Chapman's slider is pretty darned good and I don't know that it needs to improve as much as you are claiming.

Couple of things in response...

1. Johnson did hit triple digits. He usually sat 96-99, but did absolutely hit 100, 101 quite a few times.

2. Unlike Johnson, Chapman clearly doesn't yet have confidence in his slider. Johnson was not afraid to throw it anytime, anywhere against anyone. He would start you off with a slider, finish you with a slider or throw it on 3-2. Didn't matter.

3. Right now, Chapman is only primarily using his slider with 2 strikes against batters he's ahead in the count. To me, that's a clear signal he has a lot of room to work on it from a confidence standpoint, and I don't see the ability to throw it on command around the strikezone just yet.

Guys, I think Chapman is enormously talented. I'm tickled to death about his presence. And I do think he will wind up being amazingly good, health permitting.

But he still has a long way to go. The book isn't out on him yet, but it soon will be. While not everyone late in the game will catch up to his (dirty) stuff, his tendencies will allow them to have a better chance of it until he starts mixing in other pitches, or at least can be more unpredictable with his FB/Slider mix. To do that, he needs to control it, be confident in it and make it look like it's one of his otherwordly fastballs, until it's too late to adjust to the break.

SirFelixCat
09-25-2010, 02:15 PM
Of all qualified pitchers in the majors, according to Fangraphs, only two pitchers are throwing a higher percentage of fastballs than Chapman is right now. And that was before tonight when he was 25 for 25.

Throwing a slider 27% is decent, but not when you don't have any other pitches.

He's got to, absolutely got to start throwing a third and possibly fourth pitch if he has any chance of reaching his potential as a starter. Otherwise, say hello to your closer.


Just so you know, Chapman has had every pitch taken away from him, other than his slider and fastball, while in the BP this season, per management.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Well, that, and the fact that it's fooling the heck out of opposing hitters. I'm really not sure what more you could ask for. I've yet to see a hitter put a good swing on his slider.

There's barely even a scouting report on him yet. As teams start seeing him a few times, and know his tendencies, they'll make adjustments.

This is not new. A lot of pitches come in and have success right away until they're figured out. Then hitters adjust to them. The really good ones will continue to adjust to the adjustments, changing tendencies, location, working on pitches. I have no doubt Chapman will do that, but the current trend of only using it on 0-2 or 1-2 counts... that's not going to fly for too long.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Just so you know, Chapman has had every pitch taken away from him, other than his slider and fastball, while in the BP this season, per management.

Do you have a link?

SirFelixCat
09-25-2010, 02:23 PM
Do you have a link?

Nope, I was told first-hand.

OnBaseMachine
09-25-2010, 02:23 PM
Do you have a link?


Eventually, Chapman will return to starting, but for now his work in the bullpen has allowed him to concentrate on his fastball and slider. His repertoire also features a changeup, but the pitch is primarily used when he starts a game, appears in long relief or faces a predominantly right-handed-hitting lineup.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100831&content_id=14128972&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

westofyou
09-25-2010, 02:26 PM
Yeah, I kept blabbering on about that in the game thread last night. fwiw, I think that if MLB is worried about the rating small market teams will get in the playoffs, people will tune in to see Chapman pitch, if they market him.

MLB doesn't care about a small market getting in, the networks do though.

It's a double edged sword, MLB wants a good TV contract (big markets help there) but they also want a wide array of markets to get in... that sort of thing keeps folks for clamoring for a salary cap. So in essence Chapman helps both parties.

mth123
09-25-2010, 02:49 PM
Couple of things in response...

1. Johnson did hit triple digits. He usually sat 96-99, but did absolutely hit 100, 101 quite a few times.

2. Unlike Johnson, Chapman clearly doesn't yet have confidence in his slider. Johnson was not afraid to throw it anytime, anywhere against anyone. He would start you off with a slider, finish you with a slider or throw it on 3-2. Didn't matter.

3. Right now, Chapman is only primarily using his slider with 2 strikes against batters he's ahead in the count. To me, that's a clear signal he has a lot of room to work on it from a confidence standpoint, and I don't see the ability to throw it on command around the strikezone just yet.

Guys, I think Chapman is enormously talented. I'm tickled to death about his presence. And I do think he will wind up being amazingly good, health permitting.

But he still has a long way to go. The book isn't out on him yet, but it soon will be. While not everyone late in the game will catch up to his (dirty) stuff, his tendencies will allow them to have a better chance of it until he starts mixing in other pitches, or at least can be more unpredictable with his FB/Slider mix. To do that, he needs to control it, be confident in it and make it look like it's one of his otherwordly fastballs, until it's too late to adjust to the break.

So Johnson touched triple digits once in a while. He worked at around 97 while Chapman works in the 101 and 102 range. That is still the difference I'm referring to. As for the slider, I think you may be overblowing the fact that he didn't throw any last night. He was blowing guys down w/o it. Maybe it wasn't good in the pen so he wisely decided to leave it alone. I think that's the smartest thing a pitcher can do. The stupid ones are the ones who go away from what is working just to throw something else. Keebler says cookies come from elves in a hollow tree. I say they come from pitchers who can tell that certain pitches aren't working in warm-ups and insist on using them anyway. Its why a starter needs 3 or 4 pitches. Its not because he needs that many in any one at bat or even any one outing. He needs that many so he still has two or three even if one isn't working that day.

I do agree that Chapman will get exposed a little as he goes around the league, but short outings that don't involve facing a hitter multiple times in a game are not the same as going through a line-up multiple times.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:51 PM
Nope, I was told first-hand.

I assume you meant out there in Denver a few weeks ago? Not to be too picky, but wouldn't that be third-hand?

Team to Phillips to his wife.

I do appreciate the info. That at least makes some sense of it.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 02:57 PM
So Johnson touched triple digits once in a while. He worked at around 97 while Chapman works in the 101 and 102 range. That is still the difference I'm referring to. As for the slider, I think you may be overblowing the fact that he didn't throw any last night. He was blowing guys down w/o it. Maybe it wasn't good in the pen so he wisely decided to leave it alone. I think that's the smartest thing a pitcher can do. The stupid ones are the ones who go away from what is working just to throw something else. Keebler says cookies come from elves in a hollow tree. I say they come from pitchers who can tell that certain pitches aren't working in warm-ups and insist on using them anyway. Its why a starter needs 3 or 4 pitches. Its not because he needs that many in any one at bat or even any one outing. He needs that many so he still has two or three even if one isn't working that day.

I do agree that Chapman will get exposed a little as he goes around the league, but short outings that don't involve facing a hitter multiple times in a game are not the same as going through a line-up multiple times.

The average speed of fastballs has gone up the last 10 years. When Johnson was consistently hitting 98 or 99, that was arguably as big a deal as Chapman consistently hitting 101. Those extra 2-3 MPH can be a big deal, though really fast is really fast. But the key is not just how fast, but how fast relative to what you're accustomed to seeing.

As far as why a starter needing 3 or 4 pitches, I disagree completely. It's got nothing to do with one or two not working that day. It's got everything to do with being able to keep hitters off-balance, guessing what's coming next, and knowing that they're going to have 3 to 5 chances during a game to figure you out. It goes without saying that with two pitches, they've a 50/50 chance of guessing what's coming. With three pitches, a one in three chance. Four pitches, one in four, etc. Obviously you don't want to throw a pitch down the middle and also have no vertical or lateral movement. So mixing it up for the sake of mixing it up isn't always a good idea. But there are empirical reasons to have more quality pitches.

I completely agree that short outings aren't the same as going through the order several times. No disagreements there. But that's not my issue. My issue is that A) he'll have to add something going forward as a starter, and B) even as a reliever, I don't believe long term his current pitch sequence and tendencies would fly. The really good 2-pitch pitchers in the Majors mix and match their pitches much better than this.

Superdude
09-25-2010, 03:46 PM
So Johnson touched triple digits once in a while. He worked at around 97 while Chapman works in the 101 and 102 range. That is still the difference I'm referring to.

Bullpen Chapman works at 102. Starting Chapman only touched triple digits a couple times a game, but generally sat in the 93-99 range in the games I saw.

MikeS21
09-25-2010, 04:31 PM
At some point, the Reds will have to let Chapman work on that change. Hopefully Mario Soto will be around at that point. If Chapman can refine his change to even a tick above average, look out.

Now, concerning high velocity fastballs, I remember hearing an interview of Johnny Bench back in the 70's discussing Tom Seaver's fastball. I think the question stemmed from Bench hitting against Seaver all those years and finally catching him in games (by the time Seaver came to the Reds, the Reds were looking for excuses to move Bench out from behind the plate). But I remember Bench describing Tom Seaver's fastball as an "exploding" fastball. Bench said that either due to velocity or movement, that as a hitter focused on the incoming fastball, it seemed to explode mid-air. Bench said that it was basically an optical illusion caused by the fact that the eyes could not focus on the ball fast enough. He said the only chance the hitter had was to "guess" where the pitch was going to be in the zone and rely on timing. I always thought Tom Seaver sat around the 93-95 mph mark.

I have never heard a player since talk about an exploding fastball. But you gotta wonder if any one has seen it from Chapman?

OnBaseMachine
09-25-2010, 06:44 PM
From Jeff Passan:

Almost as amazing as the 105.1-mph reading on Aroldis Chapman's fastball was that it crossed the plate at 96.5 mph. Hardest thrower ever.

http://twitter.com/JeffPassan

RBA
09-25-2010, 08:24 PM
Gets the loss today. Maybe he can fill Codero's shoes afterall? ;)

oregonred
09-25-2010, 08:27 PM
Inexcusable to use Chapman less than 24 hours after 25 straight 100 MPH pitches.

This organization is nuts sometimes.

SirFelixCat
09-25-2010, 08:29 PM
I assume you meant out there in Denver a few weeks ago? Not to be too picky, but wouldn't that be third-hand?

Team to Phillips to his wife.

I do appreciate the info. That at least makes some sense of it.

Yes and no. It wasn't BP's fiancee. It was someone who works for the Reds. But yeah, he's been told to only use his FB and slider.

sivman17
09-25-2010, 08:29 PM
Inexcusable to go 0 for 5 at the dish and give a lackadaisical back-handed effort and allow a ball to go under your glove to lose the game because you're too old/slow to get in front of it.

MWM
09-25-2010, 08:32 PM
Really? We're criticizing Rolen for his effort now? And his defense? Gotta love Redszone.

sivman17
09-25-2010, 08:37 PM
Really? We're criticizing Rolen for his effort now? Gotta love Redszone.

Not criticizing. Just pointing out facts. He looks a little sluggish. He should get a lot of days off in the next week. He needs it.

MWM
09-25-2010, 08:47 PM
Seems like calling someting "inexcusable" is a criticism. And criticising his defense seems entirely myopic. Rolen's defense has been stellar all year.

westofyou
09-25-2010, 08:51 PM
Inexcusable to go 0 for 5 at the dish and give a lackadaisical back-handed effort and allow a ball to go under your glove to lose the game because you're too old/slow to get in front of it.

Inexcusable??

The guy has been there all year, has a bad game at the dish and now a back handed slap at his age?

That's crap.

Mario-Rijo
09-25-2010, 08:52 PM
Inexcusable to go 0 for 5 at the dish and give a lackadaisical back-handed effort and allow a ball to go under your glove to lose the game because you're too old/slow to get in front of it.

Inexcusable? When does he ever get in front of that ball? He always plays it the same way, can't fault him for that. I would however knock Gomes for the poor angle he took to the ball, he may have been able to hold the guy at third if not.

sivman17
09-25-2010, 09:01 PM
I would however knock Gomes for the poor angle he took to the ball, he may have been able to hold the guy at third if not.

To me it looked like he held up for a second, as if he thought it was a foul ball or something. I agree that he could have given a better effort in trying to stop the runner.

Tony Cloninger
09-25-2010, 09:11 PM
"Inexcusable" the way this team knows they have this thing won and really just are not playing with much concern if they win these games or not.
At least Dusty took Phillips out of the top hole and needs to drop Cabrera as well.

Ron Madden
09-25-2010, 09:17 PM
"Inexcusable" the way this team knows they have this thing won and really just are not playing with much concern if they win these games or not.
At least Dusty took Phillips out of the top hole and needs to drop Cabrera as well.


I wouldn't mind seeing Gomes moved out of the five hole.

edabbs44
09-25-2010, 09:32 PM
To me it looked like he held up for a second, as if he thought it was a foul ball or something. I agree that he could have given a better effort in trying to stop the runner.

I'm pretty sure he was playing that ball in case it hit that part of the wall that just sticks out of nowhere.

macro
09-27-2010, 02:14 PM
How is it that the Guinness Book of World Records is lagging behind so far with regard to the record for fastest pitch? They're still listing Nolan Ryan's 100.9 MPH in 1974 as the fastest ever.

Furthermore, they reference a claim from 2005 that anything over 100 MPH is physically impossible...


Scheiber says, the 100-mph ceiling is not an illusion - "it's a basic property of human physiology".

Turns out that if a ball were thrown any faster than 100 mph it could literally rip a pitcher's tendons and ligaments from bone and muscle. He'd throw his arm off!

Here's the complete article they cited: http://www.slate.com/id/2116402

Does anyone know if Chapman still has both arms?

Chip R
09-27-2010, 02:45 PM
How is it that the Guinness Book of World Records is lagging behind so far with regard to the record for fastest pitch? They're still listing Nolan Ryan's 100.9 MPH in 1974 as the fastest ever.

Furthermore, they reference a claim from 2005 that anything over 100 MPH is physically impossible...



Here's the complete article they cited: http://www.slate.com/id/2116402 (http://www.slate.com/id/2116402)

Does anyone know if Chapman still has both arms?


Just found a picture of him after throwing that pitch.

http://blog.timesunion.com/running/files/2010/08/HolyGrail017.jpg

Big Klu
09-27-2010, 03:57 PM
How is it that the Guinness Book of World Records is lagging behind so far with regard to the record for fastest pitch? They're still listing Nolan Ryan's 100.9 MPH in 1974 as the fastest ever.

Furthermore, they reference a claim from 2005 that anything over 100 MPH is physically impossible...



Here's the complete article they cited: http://www.slate.com/id/2116402

Does anyone know if Chapman still has both arms?

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/arnold%20arm.jpg

WebScorpion
09-28-2010, 12:42 AM
Just found a picture of him after throwing that pitch.



'Tis but a scratch!... I've had worse! :D

OnBaseMachine
09-28-2010, 02:14 PM
Chapman is getting swings and misses 15.9% of the time. That's the second best whiff rate in all of baseball among pitchers with 10 innings or more.

George Anderson
09-28-2010, 02:17 PM
Does anyone know if the people of Cuba have an idea of the success Chapman is having?? I would think Castro and his people would want to hide the money and success he is having from the Cuban people in order to not encourage more people from defecting.

Sea Ray
09-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Does anyone know if the people of Cuba have an idea of the success Chapman is having?? I would think Castro and his people would want to hide the money and success he is having from the Cuban people in order to not encourage more people from defecting.

In the press conference after his first game someone asked if his wife knew he was pitching in the big leagues and the reporter was told by the interpreter that she didn't.

nemesis
09-28-2010, 09:20 PM
In the press conference after his first game someone asked if his wife knew he was pitching in the big leagues and the reporter was told by the interpreter that she didn't.

She probably does. He can't reveal it to the world though.

Supposedly there is 0 contact between the US and Cuban citizens. There is obviously lines of communication but those are the types of things you have to keep on the down low to keep your family safe.

Some of the questions reporters ask sometimes amazes me.

Hey, can you sell out your Wife and child so Cincinnati citizens can have a feel good story while she faces a firing squad?

OnBaseMachine
10-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Chapman's final regular season stats:

13.1 IP, 9 H, 0 HR, 5 BB, 19 K, 2.03 ERA, 3.44 BB/9, 13.05 K/9.

Dominance.

paulrichjr
10-06-2010, 01:02 AM
Chapman will be featured in Sports Illustrated this week. David Price is on the front cover but the article on Chapman is mentioned on the front.

(Thankfully his pic isn't there what with the SI jinx and all)

OnBaseMachine
10-08-2010, 03:05 PM
Nice article by John Erardi:


The most amazing pitch Chapman threw on Clinch Night was not one of his breathtaking fastballs or devastating sliders (which is his strikeout pitch, a wickedly diving pitch that is unhittable when it's on), but rather an 84-mile-per-hour curveball for a strikeout.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101006/SPT04/10070356/Chapman-s-major-launch-all-that-could-be-expected

Homer Bailey
10-10-2010, 12:48 AM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5661690&categoryid=2378529

Video on Chapmans fastball

_Sir_Charles_
10-10-2010, 02:18 PM
I just watched this one on Fay's blog. Nice stuff. A really interesting watch. Highly recommended.

NJReds
10-10-2010, 04:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5661690&categoryid=2378529

Video on Chapmans fastball

Brilliant. Thanks for posting.

Brutus
10-10-2010, 05:17 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5661690&categoryid=2378529

Video on Chapmans fastball

I honestly think this is worthy of its own thread. Very, very informative. Great find, Homer.

SirFelixCat
10-10-2010, 06:26 PM
W


O


W!

OnBaseMachine
10-12-2010, 03:21 PM
John Sickels on Chapman:


6) Aroldis Chapman, LHP, Reds: 3.57 ERA, 125/52 K/BB in 96 innings, 77 hits in Triple-A. 2.03 ERA, 19/5 K/BB in 13 innings in the majors. He'll need a few command refinements if used as a starter, but that 105 MPH fastball could make him the Cuban Randy Johnson.


http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/10/12/1747148/top-50-pitching-prospects-for-2010-in-review