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MikeThierry
09-01-2010, 02:27 AM
I just want to pick the brains of some of the Reds fans. I am just wondering if Reds fans always hated the Cardinals or is it a new thing? I never noticed any dislike for the Cardinals until this year. Has it always been a rivalry from the Reds fans perspective?

couch_manager
09-01-2010, 02:49 AM
For me it's not really a rivalry. I just don't like them or a lot of their spoiled fans (no offense to you) in the same way I don't like the Steelers and their fans. We had two decades of losing with the Bengals and a decade of losing with the Reds. I guess after a while the losing and opposing fans' laughter at our futility on the field and at our fanbase over the years just kind of gets to you. It fills me with hate for the teams and their spoiled fans that have been winners year in and out and don't know what it feels like to lose so much.

liminal
09-01-2010, 02:50 AM
I just want to pick the brains of some of the Reds fans. I am just wondering if Reds fans always hated the Cardinals or is it a new thing? I never noticed any dislike for the Cardinals until this year. Has it always been a rivalry from the Reds fans perspective?

I actually really respected the Cards for most of the decade. My dislike for them started over the last couple of seasons when they were complaining about Harang's "head hunting" (ie., a day he had no control), improperly "mudded" balls (ie., really?) and even seeing Carpenter chew out Ryan (I think it was Ryan, the SS, anyway), rubbed me the wrong way. Wouldn't you, as a pitcher, rather your SS have a glove he was comfortable with? Intensity is good, but the Cardinals, this year, have crossed the line from intense to desperate and it's kind of ugly.

I think the final straw for me came from listening to their TV broadcasters earlier this year. Admittedly, I'd have never heard them had I not moved to Oklahoma somewhat recently, but they're idiots. The two things that made me hate them?

1. When the Cards were in Cincy, they did a segment on Skyline Chili and were incredibly snide/patronizing etc. I've seen other teams broadcasts feature segments on local culture, and they tend to be pretty supportive. But the broadcasters just kind of made a mocker of the chili and the town.

2. And this is is biggie--I was watching a game (Cards/Dodgers maybe) back in May or June, and Pujols gave a bit of lip to the umpire after a strike 3 call. Rather than ejecting Albert, the umpire just told him to go sit down and the announcers went off, talking about how umpires shouldn't dare speak to a superstar of Albert's stature in such a manner. Even though Pujols didn't really do anything, I haven't been able to look at him the same way ever since. It made me hate him that his town would elevate him to that kind of absurd status where an umpire--who was giving him a break by not ejecting him outright--was vilified for trying to take control of the game.

MikeThierry
09-01-2010, 02:59 AM
Well the un-mudded balls was an issue that was started by John Smoltz. He is the sort of guy who wouldn't complain about something unless there really was an issue. Carp briefly mentioned it in an after game interview in which he won. I think that was taken out of proportion.

As far as the Ryan/Carp thing, I think ESPN made too much of it. Carp specifically requested Ryan since last year to start games when he pitched because of his superior defense. I don't blame Carp for doing what he did. I like Ryan but he is a knucklehead at times and his antics can get annoying. There was no reason for Ryan to be late to a game because he was doing batting practice in the clubhouse minutes before a game starts. I think Carp was just mad because Ryan's head wasn't in the game that was an important divisional game.

It just seems like some of your anger is directed at the TV guys, which really has no barring on the Cardinals themselves. A lot of people in St. Louis can't stand the TV team we have here so I'm just as angry with you about them.

RedsLvr
09-01-2010, 03:21 AM
The Cardinals are a division rival. I hate them as much as I hate the Brewers, Cubs, Astors, and the Pirates. I'm not saying I don't respect them, as I know there are some extremely talented players in the NL Central, but I hate every other team in the Central besides the Reds.

Vottomatic
09-01-2010, 07:17 AM
The Reds have sucked for most of the last 10 years and haven't been to the playoffs since 1995. Not a whole lot of reason to hate any other team when you're not that good to begin with.

Never hated the Cards for the most part, but it's been growing the past few years with the whining and complaining. It's been well documented by columnists and TV sportstalk hosts (PTI) about the Cardinals whining. I never ever liked Tony Larussa, so that just fuels the fire.

They come across as primadonnas. And I think that is biting them in the butt right now. A roster with about 4 stars on it - Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright - who may be more about their own personal numbers than winning (seriously). With a supporting cast that isn't up to snuff.

Easy to hate.

corwinator3407
09-01-2010, 07:52 AM
I believe I made my "Cardinals GO HOME" shirt about 5 years ago for a sold out game when they had "dollar night" or some promotion. I have always hated them, even more than the Cubs.

Caveman Techie
09-01-2010, 08:44 AM
For me it really starts with Larussa and Carpenter.

The whole mudded balls thing is just one example, the way Larussa, Smoltz, and Carpenter went crying to the press. By the way the Cincinnati Enquirer did an interview with the guys responsible for mudding the balls and if I remember correctly they stated they mud the balls in batches and not just for one series and it's only ever been the Cardinals complain publicly. They did say some guys would complain wanting more or less mud on the balls based on their personal preferences, and that with the same balls they had complaints of too much mud from one pitcher while having another pitcher complain of too little mud. Or Carpenter complaining about the bullpen mound being "flat" in Colorado (I think), the guy is just a whiner and I can't stand it. I think Brandon Phillips was wrong for calling out the entire Cards organization with his comments but if you scope his comments down to just Carp and Larussa, he was dead on.

I have a lot of respect for many of the players on the Cardinals; Wainwright, Pujols, Molina, and till recently Ludwick. I have a lot of respect for the city of St. Louis, it is a similar city to Cincinnati in size and demographics. I also have a lot of respect for the fans of St. Louis, however I do think there are an awful lot of spoiled "best fans in baseball" that are being exposed right now as bandwagoners.

For me though there is nothing sweeter than seeing Carpenter lose a game and Larussa being on the hot seat. Ok, except maybe watching the Cubs in their never ending quest for mediocrity.

TStuck
09-01-2010, 09:27 AM
Never really hated the Cardinals. It was always the Cubs I despised - just because of their boorish fans and the times they've ruined my experience in my own favorite team's ballpark. Really envied the Cards and their success over the years and looked at their team as the measuring stick of success in the NL Central.
However, this past year or so has changed my outlook on the Cardinals. I don't view it as a reflection of the organization as a whole, but more a reflection of their Manager and his poor leadership. The excuse-laden arrogance and disrespect he has shown to his competition, his own team, etc. has really rubbed off on the team as a whole and made them a real target for dislike. Carpenter's antics is a good example. Intensity is great, but when it becomes a distraction or venom towards teammate(s), it's time to be taken aside and talked to, to channel that emotion into the game and his performance. While some might say it's a different situation, I still liken it to Phillips and his HR trot. When it obviously became a distraction, the guys reeled him back in for the sake of the team. BP and the team were both better for it.
So, I don't hate the Cardinals organization, but this year's team's schtick and poor sportsmanship has worn thin on me - to the point of wishing they'd lose the rest of the season so I could watch them implode.

swaisuc
09-01-2010, 09:46 AM
Of course I am biased, but I actually think the Cards fans changed more this year than the Reds fans or the rivalry itself. Even when they were crushing us, I never really hated the Cards because in general they had fans that were great sports and fun to talk baseball with. They never really threw success in our face that much. This year, with them actually losing, it has been totally different. The bitterness and attitude from them makes me want to blow them away in this division so badly. I don't know if they were just spoiled or what, but I think we are learning that it is much easier to be classy from on top.

Oh, and I already hated Carpenter and LaRussa.

Flea
09-01-2010, 10:05 AM
I have been a member of this Forum for a Long time. I rarely if ever post, however this one got my attention. After growing up in NortherKY I joined the Air Force in 1996. Since 1996 I have lived outside of the St. Louis area while working at Scott AFB. It was then that my hatred for the Cardinals began. Numerous times I have gone to Cards/Reds games with my wife and small children and have had to endure numerous heckles and extremely profane language. Their fans are arrogant and pompus, and no matter what they tell will jump off the bandwagon in a heartbeat. Their announcers are horrendous, and their manager is butthole. It has been especially funny this year. I haven't heard anything nasty from people these year except for when they swept the Reds. Nothing before, and not a peep the last couple of weeks. I especially hate how they call themselves the best fans in baseball. I hate the Cardinals.

TeamSelig
09-01-2010, 10:12 AM
I've always hated the Cards, but I'll admit it's grown more and more recently. I'm still not sure they have surpassed the Cubbies.

New York Red
09-01-2010, 10:29 AM
The Reds have sucked for most of the last 10 years and haven't been to the playoffs since 1995. Not a whole lot of reason to hate any other team when you're not that good to begin with.

Never hated the Cards for the most part, but it's been growing the past few years with the whining and complaining. It's been well documented by columnists and TV sportstalk hosts (PTI) about the Cardinals whining. I never ever liked Tony Larussa, so that just fuels the fire.

They come across as primadonnas. And I think that is biting them in the butt right now. A roster with about 4 stars on it - Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright - who may be more about their own personal numbers than winning (seriously). With a supporting cast that isn't up to snuff.

Easy to hate.
That's an excellent summary of my feelings also. Good job. :thumbup::D

Parliament
09-01-2010, 10:43 AM
I find your question condescending Mike. Of course the great cardinals and their world renown super fans might not of cared about the lowly reds in the past. That is why all the fretting and hand wringing by cardinals fans this year is so awesome! Here's to hoping the astro's get the sweep today! :)

Magdal
09-01-2010, 10:53 AM
I have been a member of this Forum for a Long time. I rarely if ever post, however this one got my attention. After growing up in NortherKY I joined the Air Force in 1996. Since 1996 I have lived outside of the St. Louis area while working at Scott AFB. It was then that my hatred for the Cardinals began. Numerous times I have gone to Cards/Reds games with my wife and small children and have had to endure numerous heckles and extremely profane language. Their fans are arrogant and pompus, and no matter what they tell will jump off the bandwagon in a heartbeat. Their announcers are horrendous, and their manager is butthole. It has been especially funny this year. I haven't heard anything nasty from people these year except for when they swept the Reds. Nothing before, and not a peep the last couple of weeks. I especially hate how they call themselves the best fans in baseball. I hate the Cardinals.Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Sprorts Illustrated that called them that? "Best fans" is so subjective as to be silly. To me hating any team that changes 80% of it's players every 3 years makes no sense. (Only 4 players left from '06)

Even hating LaRussa makes no sense as he is so awful that all Central teams should LOVE him.

double2gap
09-01-2010, 10:59 AM
My dislike for the Cardinals lies solely with the players. Fans are going to be fans. There are going to the pompus, arrogant kind and there are going to be the objective, sensible kind. Every team has both.

My rub started last year with certain Cardinal players whining about this and that. It irritated me, but I looked at it a reflection of the manager due to his responses about said whine sessions. This year however, has risen to a new level. I think when LaRussa made the comment about doing things "the Cardinal way" and then over the next two weeks, made whiney comments to the press about umpires, opposing teams and players. I'm am sure that is not the true "Cardinals way" and I hope his schtick is getting tiresome for city of St Louis. He is/was a very good manager, but now he has become too full of himself and IMO bad for baseball.

Parliament
09-01-2010, 11:00 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Sprorts Illustrated that called them that? "Best fans" is so subjective as to be silly. To me hating any team that changes 80% of it's players every 3 years makes no sense. (Only 4 players left from '06)

Even hating LaRussa makes no sense as he is so awful that all Central teams should LOVE him.

This whole thread is pointless. Yes there has always been dislike between the teams and their fans. That is how it is supposed to be! Stop trying to rationalize why reds fans don't like you. We don't like you because you are a cardinals fan. Period. What am I missing?

Now that being said I think St. Louis is nice and would love to tour the Budweiser brewery someday :beerme:

Flea
09-01-2010, 11:00 AM
I don't care who called them that. They like to use it when describing their fan base, and I will NEVER like Larussa, ever. It is so funny to me that 1 season Cardinal fans think he is a genius and the next they want him fired. Choo Choo, the train has left the station, and it's empty now!!

CincyReds2003
09-01-2010, 11:19 AM
It's LaRussa!! Clearly!!! I used to have tremendous respect for this team, and even enjoyed watching them when they had the likes of Ozzie Smith, Willie McGee, John Tudor, Darrell Porter, Keith Hernandez, and others. But lately, I've grown a large disdain towards this team because of their cocky, elitist, and self centered attitude. Just play the game instead of complaining about what others are doing or how they're acting. And I think this is a clear reflection of LaRussa, and it's tainted that team. When other teams and fan bases state that maybe Brandon shouldn't have made those comments, but understand where he is coming from, that should say something. If LaRussa is gone after this year, the organization might want to think about acquiring someone outside the organization who can deal with the stress, esp in a tight pennant race, rather than allowing internal and external BS, as well as their own self centeredness taint the core of the team.

shan12stones
09-01-2010, 11:22 AM
i started dislikng the cardinals and their fans years ago.to make a long story short i use to be friends with a ex cardinals player.well when i moved to the stl area the now ex baseball player was still playing for the cardinals and he was not doing well and cards fans harassed me for liking him and being a reds fan.i have lived in the stl area 2 diffrent times.i noticed the last 17 years the cards fans have gotten worse.i don't remember the cardinals fans being rude like when i was a kid.plus i hate tony.use to dislike him a little.but in 2004 at the old busch stadium i was waiting outside the old busch stadium.was wearing reds stuff and tony larussa walked up to me and told me how he thought the reds suck.i was minding my own business when tony did that.tony is as rude as the typical cardinals fan.cardinal fans tend to be bullies.

CincyReds2003
09-01-2010, 11:32 AM
.but in 2004 at the old busch stadium i was waiting outside the old busch stadium.was wearing reds stuff and tony larussa walked up to me and told me how he thought the reds suck.i was minding my own business when tony did that.tony is as rude as the typical cardinals fan.cardinal fans tend to be bullies.

Because he still can't get over the fact that we swept his A's in 1990! :D

shan12stones
09-01-2010, 12:07 PM
maybe so

MikeThierry
09-02-2010, 07:40 PM
I find your question condescending Mike. Of course the great cardinals and their world renown super fans might not of cared about the lowly reds in the past. That is why all the fretting and hand wringing by cardinals fans this year is so awesome! Here's to hoping the astro's get the sweep today!

I've been away for the past couple of days so I just now have had time to look at the forum. By no means was I trying to be condescending though I can see how it may have come off like that. If it did, I appologize. I was just mainly curious because it seems that there has been a little more fighting between the fan base's this year and I was just wondering if there has been some hate brewing from the Reds side of things for the past couple of years. Now, I will not slit my wrists if someone doesn't like the Cards, but it was just more of a simple inquiry on my part.

As far as being spoiled, I admit we are. However look at it from our perspective. We have been to the playoffs 8 times since LaRussa has become managers with two World Series appearances and one World Series win. We expect to be competitive every single year. I really became a Cards fan in 1996 when I moved to St. Louis from Kansas City. I do not know of a single year of my fandom where the Cards haven't been competitive, except for maybe 98 or 99. From my perspective, if the Cards didn't make the NLCS this year it would have been a failure of a year. These are just the sort of expectations that Cards fans have been putting on the team. Is it a case of being spoiled? Yes, absolutely. However, is that spoiled nature justified? I think so.

LeDoux
09-02-2010, 07:49 PM
For me it really starts with Larussa and Carpenter.


+ 1

..the fans that believe their team is entitled to win don't help either. But, every team has those fans.

MikeThierry
09-02-2010, 08:00 PM
I don't believe we think we are entitled to win the division. We expect to win it. Big difference.

texasdave
09-02-2010, 08:04 PM
I dislike everything about the Cardinals. But don't feel so all alone. I feel the same way about the Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Astros and 24 other teams.

MikeThierry
09-02-2010, 08:07 PM
Really.. how could you hate the Pirates, they are harmless? Really the only teams I hate with a passion are the Cubs and Red Sox. Oddly enough, both fan bases share similar personality traits.

DocRed
09-02-2010, 08:09 PM
I hate Carpenter...he is a jerk. But then again it's hard to hate someone you lead by 8 games...

LeDoux
09-02-2010, 10:03 PM
I don't believe we think we are entitled to win the division. We expect to win it. Big difference.

You are a brave individual to speak for the entire fanbase. What happens one of your comrades takes a page out of the Official Phillies Fan Guidebook?

vol. 14 p. 3112: Gaging yourself to induce vomit directed on the person seated in front of you

foxfire123
09-02-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm not a life long baseball fan. I didn't start following the sport until I married a sports nut Reds fan in 1994. We moved to St Louis that same year, and what made me have an undying hatred of the Cardinals is the lack of respect for the fans of other teams that I see here all the time. From being told "you have to be a Cards fan" to ridicule for following my "loser" of a team. Unfortunately, 90% of the fans I'm around are bandwagon fans, only following the team because they were winning, or because they have the "greatest player in the world" in Puhols.

I have no issue with a person who is a true baseball fan and who can see both the good and bad in their team, and practices good sportsmanship. I enjoy discussing our teams and talking baseball with a true fan, even if I despise their team normally. But sadly, I've been little of that around here. I have little tolerance or patience with unsportsmanlike nonsense like the "Completely Useless By September" shirts and crap.

foxfire123
09-02-2010, 11:00 PM
1. When the Cards were in Cincy, they did a segment on Skyline Chili and were incredibly snide/patronizing etc. I've seen other teams broadcasts feature segments on local culture, and they tend to be pretty supportive. But the broadcasters just kind of made a mocker of the chili and the town.



Wait, they had the nerve to run down a regional food when their regional foods are gawd awful, downright *nasty* toasted ravioli, gristly, fatty pork steaks and every party/wedding/whatever has to have dried up, crusty cold Mostacolli?? Ummm, OK. Culinary masterpieces there. :rolleyes:

the only St Louis regional food worthwhile is Gooey Butter Cake, which moves in and takes up permanent residence on your butt, but you don't care because it *is* so good.

texasdave
09-02-2010, 11:46 PM
This whole thread is pointless. Yes there has always been dislike between the teams and their fans. That is how it is supposed to be! Stop trying to rationalize why reds fans don't like you. We don't like you because you are a cardinals fan. Period. What am I missing?
:beerme:

This sums it up nicely. Why would Reds fans like the Cardinals? Or any other team for that matter?

MikeThierry
09-03-2010, 08:13 AM
I have little tolerance or patience with unsportsmanlike nonsense like the "Completely Useless By September" shirts and crap.


Well, we are talking about the Cubs here. They are Completely Useless By September. They are our most heated rival so I don't understand why you have a problem with fans making tee shirts and other things to show their disdain for the Cubs. The Cubs are probably one of the most worthless franchises in North American sports and deserve no respect... none what so ever.

MikeThierry
09-03-2010, 08:18 AM
This sums it up nicely. Why would Reds fans like the Cardinals? Or any other team for that matter?


I was just asking the question because it just seemed like there was an underlying hate there that I wasn't even aware of. I was more curious than anything.

I personally like the Reds. They play the game the right way and are an exciting team to watch. There are very few teams that I actually dislike or hate in this game. The Red Sox and Cubs are the exception. I feel that you don't have to hate or dislike another team simply because its not your team.

Parliament
09-03-2010, 08:26 AM
I was just asking the question because it just seemed like there was an underlying hate there that I wasn't even aware of. I was more curious than anything.


I think some of it was attributable to this forum being overrun by cardinals fans before the last series too. That was pretty classless IMO. A lot of cardinals chest thumping and backhanded compliments. You seem to be the exception to the rule though, so kudos.

bounty37h
09-03-2010, 10:30 AM
I actually really respected the Cards for most of the decade. My dislike for them started over the last couple of seasons when they were complaining about Harang's "head hunting" (ie., a day he had no control), improperly "mudded" balls (ie., really?) and even seeing Carpenter chew out Ryan (I think it was Ryan, the SS, anyway), rubbed me the wrong way. Wouldn't you, as a pitcher, rather your SS have a glove he was comfortable with? Intensity is good, but the Cardinals, this year, have crossed the line from intense to desperate and it's kind of ugly.

I think the final straw for me came from listening to their TV broadcasters earlier this year. Admittedly, I'd have never heard them had I not moved to Oklahoma somewhat recently, but they're idiots. The two things that made me hate them?

1. When the Cards were in Cincy, they did a segment on Skyline Chili and were incredibly snide/patronizing etc. I've seen other teams broadcasts feature segments on local culture, and they tend to be pretty supportive. But the broadcasters just kind of made a mocker of the chili and the town.

2. And this is is biggie--I was watching a game (Cards/Dodgers maybe) back in May or June, and Pujols gave a bit of lip to the umpire after a strike 3 call. Rather than ejecting Albert, the umpire just told him to go sit down and the announcers went off, talking about how umpires shouldn't dare speak to a superstar of Albert's stature in such a manner. Even though Pujols didn't really do anything, I haven't been able to look at him the same way ever since. It made me hate him that his town would elevate him to that kind of absurd status where an umpire--who was giving him a break by not ejecting him outright--was vilified for trying to take control of the game.

Not all the same points I would have used, but the message is the same as what I would have said.

mckbearcat48
09-03-2010, 04:09 PM
The Cards TV team is god-awful. If that was part of it, we are on the same page.

foxfire123
09-03-2010, 06:59 PM
Well, we are talking about the Cubs here. They are Completely Useless By September. They are our most heated rival so I don't understand why you have a problem with fans making tee shirts and other things to show their disdain for the Cubs. The Cubs are probably one of the most worthless franchises in North American sports and deserve no respect... none what so ever.

The definition of sportsmanship according to Merriam-Webster:

conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport.

Those Completely Useless.. shirts are just flat out rude. You don't have to like a team, gawd knows I hate the Cards, but I certainly don't disrespect them and their true fans by running around in a t-shirt that makes rude comments about them. I think I've evolved above such behaviour.

Newman4
09-03-2010, 10:52 PM
I hate them and have hated them for at least the last 10-12 years. When I say I hate them I REALLY hate them. I was listening to Lex and Terry the other day and Lex said he wished the Cardinals and all their fans would die in a plane crash. I was like, um, yeah that just about sums it up for me too. Everyday I wake up and wish hate upon the Cardinals and their fans.

Defacto
09-03-2010, 11:55 PM
I find your question condescending Mike. Of course the great cardinals and their world renown super fans might not of cared about the lowly reds in the past. That is why all the fretting and hand wringing by cardinals fans this year is so awesome! Here's to hoping the astro's get the sweep today! :)

That's far from the truth. We, Cardinals fans, loved it when Griffey came to Busch. Do you think it's fun to watch a baseball city have a below .500 team for years going against the Cardinals? No, it isn't. I'd rather have the Cardinals lose to the Reds in the Central than the Cubs, I have more respect for the Reds than I have for any team in the Central, excluding the Cardinals. I hate Dusty Baker but I loved what Walt did in his time with the Cardinals. I wish Scott Rolen was still a Cardinal, but he isn't. If the Reds make the playoffs, I'll root for them. I don't like the Phillies or Braves. I'd love a NLCS matchup Reds vs Padres.

gedred69
09-05-2010, 12:24 AM
As a life long Reds fan, for a longer period of time than most posters here have been alive, I find the original question rather effusively snotty. But, I have always found Cards fans (and Brewers fans), to be far more welcome at GABP to Cubs fans (or Bosox fans). However, my dislike for the Cards began last year, with Carpenter whining about the balls in Cincinnati, rejecting by firing one ball after another offered by the umpire, into the corner of the Reds dugout where the Ball boy is positioned. (Rejected balls are usually "rolled" to the ball boy). He later complained in an interview the balls are always too slick in Cincinnati. What a whiny----what was that term BP used? For his information, the baseballs are always rubbed down before a game by the umpires, not the home team. If that isn't enough, Scott Rolen was beaned by a Cards pitcher last year, ending up on the DL shortly after coming here. And dang! Come to recollect, there was the bean ball war during the Bob Boone era here, that the Cards won by hitting Reds batters 2 to 1..........

MikeThierry
09-07-2010, 01:53 AM
I hate them and have hated them for at least the last 10-12 years. When I say I hate them I REALLY hate them. I was listening to Lex and Terry the other day and Lex said he wished the Cardinals and all their fans would die in a plane crash. I was like, um, yeah that just about sums it up for me too. Everyday I wake up and wish hate upon the Cardinals and their fans.

If you have this kind of hate, you really need to seek some professional help. I hate the Cubs with a passion but I would never wish their players or fans to die in a plane crash.

Firefox, please dude, this is one of the oldest rivalries in baseball. It would be like trying to tell a Yankees or Red Sox fan or even a Giants and Dodger fan to be nice to each other. I will never respect the Cubs and they should never deserve respect from any person... ever.

Defacto
09-07-2010, 06:47 PM
I hate them and have hated them for at least the last 10-12 years. When I say I hate them I REALLY hate them. I was listening to Lex and Terry the other day and Lex said he wished the Cardinals and all their fans would die in a plane crash. I was like, um, yeah that just about sums it up for me too. Everyday I wake up and wish hate upon the Cardinals and their fans.


Why? What have we done to you make you hate us with such a passion? We respect your players and we have high respect for your GM. The owner of the Reds helped DeWitt buy the Cardinals and was part of the ownership group. I thought the rivalry was friendly.