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View Full Version : Nyjer Morgan's a nut!!



Redsfan320
09-01-2010, 10:32 PM
1. Last week he gets in an argument with a fan and ends up throwing a ball that hits another fan

2. Over the weekend, he, after scoring, hits the Cards catcher, who's standing way over in the other batter's box Here's this one. (http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11487843)

3. Last night he PUMMELS the Marlins catcher when it was unnecessary, separating his left shoulder. Here's that. (http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11578087)

4. Tonight, Marlins bean him, he takes his medicine. Next AB, they throw behind him he charges the mound. As he walks off the field, he raises his arms. You'd have to see it to get it. Here (http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11615635)

Dude's just a nut. He was moved from 1st to 8th in the lineup right before all this started. Maybe he was irritated 'cause of that. I don't know.

BTW, was one of the best brawls I've ever seen. Gabby Sanchez.

320

edabbs44
09-01-2010, 10:34 PM
You missed one, he stole 2nd and 3rd uncontested after getting pegged tonight in a blowout game. Probably rubbed the Marlins the wrong way, even though they were winning.

He's an idiot. He should get a severe penalty.

Redsfan320
09-01-2010, 10:35 PM
Oh yeah, there's that too.

320

Cyclone792
09-01-2010, 10:43 PM
Not to defend Morgan here for everything, but here's my take on all the above:

1) I've been to Philly. I've attended Reds/Phils games there, and Phillies fans are the worst fans I've ever encountered in any sporting venue. They're worse than drunk West Virginia students at football games in Morgantown (to be fair to West Virginia football fans, their non-student fans were very nice). Morgan shouldn't have done what he did, but at the same time I'm amazed player/fan stuff doesn't happen more often in Philly with as bad as it is.

2) I'm cool with anybody trying to take out the Cardinals.

3) I actually don't think Morgan's collision with the catcher was a bad play. Watching the replay, the third base coach is sending Morgan all the way. The ball was likely going to beat Morgan to the plate so there's two options, slide or plow him. Morgan chose to plow him, and while the catcher held on to the ball, it was a typical home plate collision.

4) Morgan gets drilled once and heads over to first like he should. Then he promptly steals second and third. You know what? If I get drilled intentionally, I'm looking to steal too. That's how you get your piece of the pie back. Florida throws behind him during his next plate appearance, and well, it's game on.

There are certain teams that if Nyjer Morgan was playing for and helping them win consistently, he'd be called a competitive gamer who's trying to go out there and win any way possible. But instead he plays for a last place Washington club so the story has to be told the other way around.

reds44
09-01-2010, 10:45 PM
There's no doubt he's crazy, but that was awesome lol.

guttle11
09-01-2010, 10:45 PM
MLB should just suspended him for the year and make him get some help with his anger. Do it with pay to appease the union if you must. He's a danger to himself and others right now. Can't have that.

RedsManRick
09-01-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm so tired of collisions at home. Unless the catcher is in the middle of the basepath, there is no excuse for it.

I'm glad to see the entire Marlins infield just take him down.

Reds Freak
09-01-2010, 10:51 PM
I kept looking for the Big Donkey in that fight, couldn't find him?

BCubb2003
09-01-2010, 10:53 PM
I kept looking for the Big Donkey in that fight, couldn't find him?

Dunn entered the scrum from the left but was pulled out and down surprisingly quickly.

Redsfan320
09-01-2010, 10:53 PM
Dunner was in there. Wasn't in the very middle, but he was in the pile on the outer edge.

320

Brutus
09-01-2010, 10:54 PM
Nyjer is a nut, but he did absolutely nothing wrong in this series.

The collision last night was unnecessary but not terrible. Tonight... so he stole bases? Big deal. I'm tired of the "unwritten" rules. He got plunked and down 11 runs he decided to steal. If teams don't want him to steal bases... throw him out.

Morgan is a nut. No doubt about it. But I am having a hard time blaming him for anything he did in Florida.

Hoosier Red
09-01-2010, 10:55 PM
Is there any history with this guy though? I mean he's essentially gone from Chris Dickerson to Milton Bradley in the course of a week.

guttle11
09-01-2010, 10:56 PM
Is there any history with this guy though? I mean he's essentially gone from Chris Dickerson to Milton Bradley in the course of a week.

He grew up a hockey player, and IIRC, was pretty good. Pro potential had he stayed with it. Hockey players aren't exactly docile.

Tony Cloninger
09-01-2010, 10:56 PM
Gabby Sanchez gave him a cheap shot. Guy is small and he stood up to the pitcher who had 4 inches on him...then Sanchez nails him with a shot ....tough guy that Sanchez. He had a inch or 2 on Morgan as well as maybe 20 lbs.

Dunn was there trying to pull people off.

It used to be that you could hit a C when you were tying to score. The Marlins C saw what was coming. I saw Brian Jordan law a forearm on a Catcher in ATL....and he got up all full of himself. Everyone said it was clean...even the catcher...I did not think it was considering Jordan was a football player to begin with. But nothing happened after that....no one got thrown at. That was a worse collision that this one.

Spitball
09-01-2010, 11:05 PM
I'm so tired of collisions at home. Unless the catcher is in the middle of the basepath, there is no excuse for it.


The collision at the plate is one of the most exciting plays in the game of baseball. Norm Charlton taking out Mike Sciocia (sp?) was one of my favorite baseball memories. That said, I'd like to see the rules tightened to protect catchers. Really, I'd like to see a slide made mandatory. There is no reason to endanger some young man's career by a cheapshot hothead blasting into some catcher concentrating on a throw to the plate.

Tom Servo
09-01-2010, 11:08 PM
Dude got jacked up by Sanchez.

Chip R
09-01-2010, 11:09 PM
The collision at the plate is one of the most exciting plays in the game of baseball. Norm Charlton taking out Mike Sciocia (sp?) was one of my favorite baseball memories. That said, I'd like to see the rules tightened to protect catchers. Really, I'd like to see a slide made mandatory. There is no reason to endanger some young man's career by a cheapshot hothead blasting into some catcher concentrating on a throw to the plate.

I've always wondered why a runner couldn't bowl over a 2nd baseman or SS?

reds44
09-01-2010, 11:10 PM
I've always wondered why a runner couldn't bowl over a 2nd baseman or SS?
I'm pretty sure they can, problem there is you're not going to stay on 2nd base if you run over the guy.

Danny Serafini
09-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I have no problem whatsoever with anything Morgan did against the Marlins. It probably would've been smarter to slide into home because he would've had a better chance of scoring, but collisions at home have been part of the game for ages. As for charging the mound, the guy got thrown at twice. One time I get, but the second time was just stupid. It was the Marlins who were asking for that fight, not Morgan.

VR
09-01-2010, 11:17 PM
The problem wasn't so much what he did....it was the litany of f-bombs that he dropped after stealing bases and while 'addressing' the crowd after getting pummelled.

It will not be a short suspension, of that I'm fairly certain.

Brutus
09-01-2010, 11:21 PM
The problem wasn't so much what he did....it was the litany of f-bombs that he dropped after stealing bases and while 'addressing' the crowd after getting pummelled.

It will not be a short suspension, of that I'm fairly certain.

F-bombs by a professional athlete? Say it ain't so!

BTW, I do agree I didn't care for the addressing the crowd. But everything before that is a big old helping of big deal.

kaldaniels
09-01-2010, 11:24 PM
Gaby Sanchez is the hero of the day.. Whoever said he delivered a cheap shot is wrong IMHO.

Orenda
09-01-2010, 11:26 PM
nyjer is a bit chippy lately.

I don't blame the marlins for throwing at him the first time. BTW, Volsted kept his pitch below the shoulder on both throws.
However after the second pitch behind him they pretty much guaranteed a quarrel.

My take aways from this:

1.) Nyjer Morgan won't back down but is reckless. JMO

2.) Chris Volsted was ready to fight but he displayed the worst defense of all time as he drops his arms straight down to his side leaving his face exposed.

3.) My pre-season pick for under the radar player to perform, Gaby Sanchez, demonstrates that he can anticipate well. I can't believe how quick he was there to clean house.

VR
09-01-2010, 11:28 PM
F-bombs by a professional athlete? Say it ain't so!

BTW, I do agree I didn't care for the addressing the crowd. But everything before that is a big old helping of big deal.

yep.....but he couldn't overcome himself. That's an issue in baseball.

blumj
09-01-2010, 11:29 PM
The collision at the plate is one of the most exciting plays in the game of baseball. Norm Charlton taking out Mike Sciocia (sp?) was one of my favorite baseball memories. That said, I'd like to see the rules tightened to protect catchers. Really, I'd like to see a slide made mandatory. There is no reason to endanger some young man's career by a cheapshot hothead blasting into some catcher concentrating on a throw to the plate.
It's Scioscia, but it looks just as wrong when you spell it right as it does when you spell it wrong. I hate that.

kaldaniels
09-01-2010, 11:31 PM
Mandatory slide at home? Not for me.

WVPacman
09-01-2010, 11:38 PM
You can't tell me if you was in Morgans shoes and they threw at you twice that you would'nt have charged the mound also? I personally thought the Marlins first baseman threw the cheap shot.If Morgan gets suspended for a while then the Marlins first baseman should to.





They're worse than drunk West Virginia students at football games in Morgantown (to be fair to West Virginia football fans, their non-student fans were very nice). Yes the WVU students can get pretty bad but that happens in almost every college stadium and that schools college students.

GADawg
09-01-2010, 11:38 PM
not only did the benches clear but it looked like the stands cleared too!!

Griffey012
09-01-2010, 11:41 PM
Although with HanRam's throw being high, I am pretty sure Morgan is safe if he slides in feet first. Instead he rams the guy and is out.

westofyou
09-01-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm so tired of collisions at home. Unless the catcher is in the middle of the basepath, there is no excuse for it.

I'm glad to see the entire Marlins infield just take him down.

The catcher is really not allowed to block the plate is he?

The Operator
09-01-2010, 11:54 PM
Weren't The Nationals just oh so offended when Brandon bowled over their catcher?

Hypocrisy is fun.

kaldaniels
09-01-2010, 11:54 PM
You can't tell me if you was in Morgans shoes and they threw at you twice that you would'nt have charged the mound also? I personally thought the Marlins first baseman threw the cheap shot.If Morgan gets suspended for a while then the Marlins first baseman should to.




Yes the WVU students can get pretty bad but that happens in almost every college stadium and that schools college students.

Pause for a second and think. What if you were Gaby Sanchez? Do you just let your pitcher get pummelled - regardless of events leading up to the charge - ? I have not spoken about whether Morgan was right or wrong so don't head down that path...I was simply defending Sanchez.

Should Gaby have
a) done nothing
b) in the heat of the moment politely wrapped his arms around Nutty Morgan
c) protect his pitcher by any means necessary i.e. take down Morgan

You tell me.

Ghosts of 1990
09-02-2010, 12:02 AM
I've had firsthand interactions with Nyjer before and I can tell you that he gave me a very bad vibe. He is a dangerous man with a very unstable temper. I'm not surprised by this at all. That's my two cents.

WVPacman
09-02-2010, 12:15 AM
Pause for a second and think. What if you were Gaby Sanchez? Do you just let your pitcher get pummelled - regardless of events leading up to the charge - ? I have not spoken about whether Morgan was right or wrong so don't head down that path...I was simply defending Sanchez.

Should Gaby have
a) done nothing
b) in the heat of the moment politely wrapped his arms around Nutty Morgan
c) protect his pitcher by any means necessary i.e. take down Morgan

You tell me.

Kal,I did'nt say you said anything wrong and that post was for everybody to answer.To answer your question if Morgan would have charged the mound the fist time they threw at him then I would'nt have minded if the first baseman closelined him or not...but the pitcher was dumb enough to throw at Morgan a second time and caused the fight imo so yeah if I was the first baseman I would have let his butt get stomped b/c the pitcher was clearly to blame.So we will have to agree to dissagree

reds44
09-02-2010, 12:20 AM
How do baseball players have such awful fighting form? Why does Volstad drop his hands and pretty much give Morgan a free shot at his face? Dear God.

I'll forever like Gaby Sanchez after that. That's how you protect your teammates.

I'm sure Morgan will get the longest amount of time, but Volstad and Sanchez are going to go bye bye for awhile too.

CTA513
09-02-2010, 02:11 AM
According to gameday Volstad hit 3 Nationals and tried to hit Morgan a 2nd time.

Don't try to hit a guy twice if you don't want to start a brawl.
It was actually pretty funny to see one of the Nationals coaches jump right in the middle of it.
Dunn was in the video he went into the pile and tossed #59 of the Marlins on the ground and then stumbled/tripped doing so.
Morgan will probably be suspended but I would give Volstad the same length of suspension.

CTA513
09-02-2010, 02:12 AM
Weren't The Nationals just oh so offended when Brandon bowled over their catcher?

Hypocrisy is fun.

The Nationals didn't have a problem with Phillips running over him, they thought Phillips acted like an ass on his way back to the dugout.

reds44
09-02-2010, 02:46 AM
The Nationals didn't have a problem with Phillips running over him, they thought Phillips acted like an ass on his way back to the dugout.
Did you see what Morgan did while leaving the field?

CTA513
09-02-2010, 03:02 AM
Did you see what Morgan did while leaving the field?

Not really the same situation but he did act like an ass and will probably get a longer suspension then what Cueto got.

Redsfaithful
09-02-2010, 03:19 AM
Morgan stealing second and third was hilarious.

I have no problem with anything he did, maybe apart from yelling at the crowd. Sports are too sanitized, baseball especially with all of its unwritten rules.

Volstad is 6'8 btw, upthread someone said he had 4 inches on Morgan ... it's more like 8.

membengal
09-02-2010, 03:37 AM
The only part I don't get Florida being upset about are the stolen bases. Florida was up 11 when he swiped 2nd and 3rd, and it was somewhere around the 4th inning.

Is the unwritten rule really that if you are down 10 or so you should stop trying to come back?

Morgan managed to manufacture a run there, and Washington ultimately pulled that game to a more manageable down 6 before losing.

What unwritten rule is it that says if you are down a bunch you can't steal? And, if you do, that you should be thrown at?

That's the part that confuses me a bit.

mth123
09-02-2010, 04:00 AM
The only part I don't get Florida being upset about are the stolen bases. Florida was up 11 when he swiped 2nd and 3rd, and it was somewhere around the 4th inning.

Is the unwritten rule really that if you are down 10 or so you should stop trying to come back?

Morgan managed to manufacture a run there, and Washington ultimately pulled that game to a more manageable down 6 before losing.

What unwritten rule is it that says if you are down a bunch you can't steal? And, if you do, that you should be thrown at?

That's the part that confuses me a bit.

When I was a kid, Stolen bases were for close games as a way to manufacture a run. Stealing at other times was viewed as simply trying to pad your stats while showing up the opposing pitcher and catcher. That changed a bit when 80+ SB seasons started becoming fairly common in the late 70s and early 80s.

Not sure it warrants being thrown at and if a guy is plunked and gets even by stealing, that seems preferable to charging the mound. I don't know much about Morgan, but I'm guessing he must not be well liked and it brings out a reaction that somebody else wouldn't get.

The Operator
09-02-2010, 04:18 AM
The only part I don't get Florida being upset about are the stolen bases. Florida was up 11 when he swiped 2nd and 3rd, and it was somewhere around the 4th inning.

Is the unwritten rule really that if you are down 10 or so you should stop trying to come back? Yea, I agree.

I could understand Florida being upset about the steals if the score had been the other way around, but if you're the winning team - you gotta expect the other team's gonna try to come back in whatever way possible until the last out is made. Station to station baseball sucks.

muddie
09-02-2010, 07:02 AM
Morgan had a little bit of Ty Cobb in him there. Ty would have been proud of the kid.

cumberlandreds
09-02-2010, 07:18 AM
I used to wonder why the Reds didn't try to pick up Morgan from the Pirates when they basically traded him to the Nats for a song. Now I know why. Morgan obviously has problems that go way beyond the baseball field. For his accumulation of actions in the last week or so he should get the rest of the season off,IMO.

Deepred05
09-02-2010, 07:55 AM
This guy reminds me of Pete Rose with his intensity.

edabbs44
09-02-2010, 08:14 AM
I used to wonder why the Reds didn't try to pick up Morgan from the Pirates when they basically traded him to the Nats for a song. Now I know why. Morgan obviously has problems that go way beyond the baseball field. For his accumulation of actions in the last week or so he should get the rest of the season off,IMO.

Accumulation factor is key. He knew what he was doing and what the likely reaction would be. It's called common sense and the crap he has pulled lately is the kind of stuff that incites the next Artest like riot.

Roy Tucker
09-02-2010, 08:25 AM
I think everything would have been OK if Florida hadn't thrown at Morgan the second time. Before that, everything was happening according to rules, both written and unwritten.

If the Marlins were upset about Morgan stealing bases down by 11, I think that's bunk. It was the 4th inning. Lord knows this year we've seen big leads blown. If it were the 8th or 9th inning, I could see them having a beef. But in the 4th inning, the game is far from over. Play on boys.

All the rest was a hoot (as long as nobody got hurt). Sanchez de-cleated Morgan. A 60's-style NFL clotheline.

SunDeck
09-02-2010, 08:29 AM
All the rest was a hoot (as long as nobody got hurt). Sanchez de-cleated Morgan. A 60's-style NFL clotheline.

I think it's hilarious when a guy charges the mound and gets hammered. Like Robin Ventura charging Nolan Ryan.

NJReds
09-02-2010, 09:00 AM
Not to defend Morgan here for everything, but here's my take on all the above:

3) I actually don't think Morgan's collision with the catcher was a bad play. Watching the replay, the third base coach is sending Morgan all the way. The ball was likely going to beat Morgan to the plate so there's two options, slide or plow him. Morgan chose to plow him, and while the catcher held on to the ball, it was a typical home plate collision.

4) Morgan gets drilled once and heads over to first like he should. Then he promptly steals second and third. You know what? If I get drilled intentionally, I'm looking to steal too. That's how you get your piece of the pie back. Florida throws behind him during his next plate appearance, and well, it's game on.

There are certain teams that if Nyjer Morgan was playing for and helping them win consistently, he'd be called a competitive gamer who's trying to go out there and win any way possible. But instead he plays for a last place Washington club so the story has to be told the other way around.

I agree with what you said 100%.

And after he got hit the first time, he stole second and third and scored on a sac fly, but his team was losing by 10, not winning. They actually came back to within a few runs later in the game. So he should stop playing?

Then Volstad threw behind him again.

I don't understand why the Marlins are being completly absolved of wrongdoing by ESPN and other sports media types. Volstad hit three players and threw behind Morgan. He should be suspended. Sanchez, too, for his cheap shot.


Which brings up another question. In the NBA and NHL, if a third person enters a fight there's an automatic suspension ... same if you leave the bench. Why not in MLB?

durl
09-02-2010, 09:05 AM
While I don't have a problem with running over the catcher if it's the best option, Morgan's actions, in my opinion, were reckless and unnecessary.

Against the Cards, he went out of his way, missing the plate, to run into the catcher. Result of his decision: he made an out because he put more focus on hitting the catcher (who had no play) than touching the plate.

Against the Marlins, he chose to run into the catcher who was standing up rather than slide. Result of his decision: he made an out because he put more focus on hitting the catcher than touching the plate.

That's not hard-nosed baseball. That's dumb baseball. He could have easily scored twice.

I'm all for playing hard. If a catcher is down low and blocking the plate, then go in hard if you want. Morgan had no justification for either of the collisions.

I believe he'll sit for 5-10 games due, in part, to his actions when he walked off the field last night. When you look at his antics over the past week and combine that with his taunting as he was walked off the field, I believe the commissioner's office will suspend him.

traderumor
09-02-2010, 09:27 AM
Don't forget that Morgan earlier in the season missed a ball in CF that stayed in play, threw his glove down on the ground in disgust as the hitter circled the bases. Going for the Milton Bradley Angriest MLB Player ESPY award, I guess.

_Sir_Charles_
09-02-2010, 09:37 AM
The problem wasn't so much what he did....it was the litany of f-bombs that he dropped after stealing bases and while 'addressing' the crowd after getting pummelled.

It will not be a short suspension, of that I'm fairly certain.

This.

The play was clean...possibly slightly excessive, but clean. The reaction he had...not so much.

MattyHo4Life
09-02-2010, 09:43 AM
Last night he PUMMELS the Marlins catcher when it was unnecessary, separating his left shoulder.

This is all the Cardinals fault. He only did this because like everyone else in the Majors... he hates the Cardinals. Afterall, Washington is one of the most passive teams in the Majors. Maybe he just forgot that they weren't playing the Cardinals anymore. His hatred for the Cardinals is so bad that it has turned him into a raging lunatic. Didn't you hear him after he charged the mound? He clearly said "LaRussa.... You're Next!"

WVRed
09-02-2010, 09:57 AM
Yes the WVU students can get pretty bad but that happens in almost every college stadium and that schools college students.

Yep, and WVU has been voted among the rudest in college football and the worst in the Big East.

Loved the haymaker by Sanchez. As for the St Louis series, just wish it was Yadier Molina instead.

Roy Tucker
09-02-2010, 09:58 AM
This is all the Cardinals fault. He only did this because like everyone else in the Majors... he hates the Cardinals. Afterall, Washington is one of the most passive teams in the Majors. Maybe he just forgot that they weren't playing the Cardinals anymore. His hatred for the Cardinals is so bad that it has turned him into a raging lunatic. Didn't you hear him after he charged the mound? He clearly said "LaRussa.... You're Next!"

You can blame global warming on the Cards as well.

;)

MattyHo4Life
09-02-2010, 12:12 PM
You can blame global warming on the Cards as well.

;)

Right, because Chris Carpenter is the devil, and he is heating the earth up. :cool:

GoReds
09-02-2010, 12:43 PM
When Morgan stole 2nd and 3rd, he actually slide through the base quite a bit, which seemed excessive and unnecessary. Also saw after he stole 3rd, he got up and was mouthing off then, too.

Don't care about unwritten rules, but as a pro athlete making better money than the vast majority of the people paying to see you play, show that you can take their money with a modicum of class.

SunDeck
09-02-2010, 12:50 PM
I'd like to see if there are any camera angles showing the Marlins all leaning towards the mound on the pitch. As quickly as they got to him, it looked like they were ready for it.

NJReds
09-02-2010, 12:53 PM
I'd like to see if there are any camera angles showing the Marlins all leaning towards the mound on the pitch. As quickly as they got to him, it looked like they were ready for it.

Volstad was as a much a part of the problem as Morgan and he's skating on this. He hit three guys (including Morgan) and threw behind Morgan a second time.

And Sanchez is a coward. In any other sport he'd be out for a while being the third man in a fight and throwing a punch.

That's not to say Morgan wasn't out of control, because he was.

RichRed
09-02-2010, 01:02 PM
The only part I don't get Florida being upset about are the stolen bases. Florida was up 11 when he swiped 2nd and 3rd, and it was somewhere around the 4th inning.

Is the unwritten rule really that if you are down 10 or so you should stop trying to come back?

Morgan managed to manufacture a run there, and Washington ultimately pulled that game to a more manageable down 6 before losing.

What unwritten rule is it that says if you are down a bunch you can't steal? And, if you do, that you should be thrown at?

That's the part that confuses me a bit.

Exactamundo. Except they actually cut the deficit to 5 briefly in the 7th inning. Ask Reds fans if a 5-run lead is always safe at that point in the game. Barry Larkin said on MLB Network that he would've done the exact same thing, for what it's worth.

Having said that, it's pretty clear Morgan has some maturity and temper issues to deal with.

puca
09-02-2010, 01:05 PM
When Morgan stole 2nd and 3rd, he actually slide through the base quite a bit, which seemed excessive and unnecessary. Also saw after he stole 3rd, he got up and was mouthing off then, too.

Don't care about unwritten rules, but as a pro athlete making better money than the vast majority of the people paying to see you play, show that you can take their money with a modicum of class.

That was my impression as well. It wasn't that Morgan stole 2nd and 3rd, it was how he stole them. In both cases he slid well over the bag and looked like he was trying to make contact.

UKFlounder
09-02-2010, 01:14 PM
This is a great thread. From what little I had seen, I had assumed Morgan was completely in the wrong (except for the FL pitcher throwing at him twice) but there are a lot of good points - both ways - in this thread.

Roy Tucker
09-02-2010, 01:42 PM
I'd like to see if there are any camera angles showing the Marlins all leaning towards the mound on the pitch. As quickly as they got to him, it looked like they were ready for it.

Whatever the Marlins' sign is for "hit this guy", I think the whole team saw it. They sure seemed ready. Conversely, it seemed like the calvary was a little late and a little weak for the Nationals. Nothing but white jerseys piled on Morgan.

HeatherC1212
09-02-2010, 01:51 PM
Whatever the Marlins' sign is for "hit this guy", I think the whole team saw it. They sure seemed ready. Conversely, it seemed like the calvary was a little late and a little weak for the Nationals. Nothing but white jerseys piled on Morgan.

I thought the same thing especially after seeing how Volstad threw his glove down. They were ready to fight and that's probably why so many white jerseys got there so fast. The Nats probably didn't see it coming after the earlier HBPs in the game and couldn't get out there fast enough to do much.

This whole thing has just blown my mind. Just when you think you've seen everything, you see a drop down, all out brawl between two teams at the bottom of their division not playing for anything but pride. Anyone who says there's no passion in baseball simply isn't watching the games, LOL :laugh:

Count me as another who thinks the Marlins need to take some blame for this too. There's plenty of blame to go around here and I hope they don't just punish Nyger for everything. Nyger, Volstad, Sanchez, that Marlins third base coach who threw himself onto the pile (don't know his name), and anyone else who threw a punch or kick in that pile should find themself with a suspension. Nyger was being a total jerk but those guys were asking for a fight and that's not right either. I can't believe the Marlins manager stood up for his pitcher saying that they were 'just pitching him inside and the ball got away from him'. That wasn't just pitching inside that I saw last night. Wow. :eek:

SunDeck
09-02-2010, 01:52 PM
Whatever the Marlins' sign is for "hit this guy"

What I wouldn't give to have that sign at work some days.

Chip R
09-02-2010, 02:00 PM
Whatever the Marlins' sign is for "hit this guy", I think the whole team saw it. They sure seemed ready. Conversely, it seemed like the calvary was a little late and a little weak for the Nationals. Nothing but white jerseys piled on Morgan.


Since the Nats were batting, it would have been a little difficult to get out there before the Marlins did.

PuffyPig
09-02-2010, 03:52 PM
I like Morgan. I like what he did. He could play hockey on my team anytime.

They threw at him twice? For stealing while down 11 runs? He did what he had to do.

I like how he pissed off Larussa. I really liked that.

TheNext44
09-02-2010, 03:58 PM
The only part I don't get Florida being upset about are the stolen bases. Florida was up 11 when he swiped 2nd and 3rd, and it was somewhere around the 4th inning.

Is the unwritten rule really that if you are down 10 or so you should stop trying to come back?

Morgan managed to manufacture a run there, and Washington ultimately pulled that game to a more manageable down 6 before losing.

What unwritten rule is it that says if you are down a bunch you can't steal? And, if you do, that you should be thrown at?

That's the part that confuses me a bit.

Whitey Herzog would get in trouble in the '80's for stealing with up by more than 5 runs. He would reply, "We'll stop stealing bases if you guys promise to stop scoring runs."

It's a really stupid unwritten rule if you ask me. Baseball is the one sport where it's never over till it's over. You can't ask a team so stop competing when there is always an opportunity for the other team to comeback and win.

durl
09-02-2010, 04:10 PM
I like Morgan. I like what he did. He could play hockey on my team anytime.

He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

NJReds
09-02-2010, 04:41 PM
He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0711/sn_1970_rose_200.jpg

Roy Tucker
09-02-2010, 04:47 PM
He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

That was was a stupid play. And he got plunked for that. That really should have been the end of it.

The Marlins getting their noses out of joint about him stealing bases was out of line IMO.

I suppose they have a case if they didn't like his yapping when he did all that. But if it was just the stealing bases, then all is fair in love and war and it ain't over till its over.

OldRightHander
09-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Since the Nats were batting, it would have been a little difficult to get out there before the Marlins did.

Thanks for that astute observation.

_Sir_Charles_
09-02-2010, 05:51 PM
He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

Here's the thing though in regards to that. The ball was beating him to the dish. This is the kind of thing you have to decide about halfway down the line and then COMMIT to that decision. A late, last second decision on a slide or a bowling-over is an easy way for the runner to get hurt.

MattyHo4Life
09-02-2010, 06:24 PM
He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

I don't think Morgan cares about scoring runs. He just wants to hurt people.

TheNext44
09-02-2010, 06:36 PM
I don't think Morgan cares about scoring runs. He just wants to hurt people.

Seriously There really is no evidence for such a hyperbolic statement.

Nugget
09-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Serioiusly? There really is no evidence for such a hyperbolic statement.

Look at his reaction after he hits Hayes. He basically just runs back to the dugout like he's a thug. Its "players" like Nyjer Morgan who should be drilled out of the game.

TheNext44
09-02-2010, 07:00 PM
Look at his reaction after he hits Hayes. He basically just runs back to the dugout like he's a thug. Its "players" like Nyjer Morgan who should be drilled out of the game.

So I guess Gomes, Phillips and about half the majors should be drilled out of the game, then. :rolleyes:

durl
09-02-2010, 07:15 PM
So I guess Gomes, Phillips and about half the majors should be drilled out of the game, then. :rolleyes:

I don't think ANY player should be smug after running down a catcher. I thought Phillips was out of line when he did it.

Given that Morgan avoided the plate entirely against the Cards simply so he could run into their catcher who wasn't blocking the plate, it seems as though Morgan is more focused on who to run into rather than reaching the plate.

I've avoided using this word, but that's just stupid baseball.

TheNext44
09-02-2010, 07:21 PM
I don't think ANY player should be smug after running down a catcher. I thought Phillips was out of line when he did it.

Given that Morgan avoided the plate entirely against the Cards simply so he could run into their catcher who wasn't blocking the plate, it seems as though Morgan is more focused on who to run into rather than reaching the plate.

I disagree with your description of that play, so obviously we come to different conclusions about Morgan.

I just see a Gomes like player who plays hard, plays to win, and doesn't worry about making friends on the field of play during a game.

RedEye
09-02-2010, 07:23 PM
Not to stall the scintillating discussion of Morgan's character, but does anyone know where the name "Nyjer" comes from? Just curious. Oh, and is the "j" silent?

PuffyPig
09-02-2010, 07:53 PM
He separated the catcher's shoulder and now he's out for the rest of the year. But he didn't have to go in that hard. He could have slid and been safe by a mile. I like hockey, too, but this ain't hockey. Basically, all he did was make an out and injure another player.

The catcher was blocking the plate. When Rose ended Fosse's career, everyone idolized him.

edabbs44
09-02-2010, 09:20 PM
The catcher was blocking the plate. When Rose ended Fosse's career, everyone idolized him.

The Florida catcher wasn't blocking anything.

durl
09-03-2010, 09:22 AM
I disagree with your description of that play, so obviously we come to different conclusions about Morgan.

I just see a Gomes like player who plays hard, plays to win, and doesn't worry about making friends on the field of play during a game.

Check out the video of that play. The Cards catcher was standing on the plate but moved to the first base side and Morgan took two more steps to get to the plate. Morgan stepped in front of the plate, took two more steps, and then put his shoulder into the catcher and shoved him off to his left. Even his manager called it "unprofessional."

In the play where Rose ended Fosse's career, Fosse was 3 steps up the 3rd base line, facing 3B, and hunkered down straddling the line. Morgan is running into catchers that are not blocking the plate entirely, or not at all.

HeatherC1212
09-03-2010, 01:01 PM
Here's the suspension list per Heyman on Twitter:


@SI_JonHeyman - nyjer morgan getting well-deserved 8-game suspension after 3 incidents this week. that's in addition to the 7 games hes appealing. #nats


@SI_JonHeyman - others suspended besides morgan: volstad 6 games, sanabia 5, gaby sanchez 3, slaten 3.

TheNext44
09-03-2010, 01:07 PM
Check out the video of that play. The Cards catcher was standing on the plate but moved to the first base side and Morgan took two more steps to get to the plate. Morgan stepped in front of the plate, took two more steps, and then put his shoulder into the catcher and shoved him off to his left. Even his manager called it "unprofessional."

In the play where Rose ended Fosse's career, Fosse was 3 steps up the 3rd base line, facing 3B, and hunkered down straddling the line. Morgan is running into catchers that are not blocking the plate entirely, or not at all.

It was a stupid play. But I didn't see any malice or intent to injure. I just saw a player playing with too much emotion and not enough thinking.

CTA513
09-03-2010, 01:15 PM
Here's the suspension list per Heyman on Twitter:

I wonder what Sanabia did.
He was the guy that Dunn yanked out of the pile but you couldn't really see what he was doing.

Redsfan320
09-03-2010, 01:33 PM
I don't think Gaby Sanchez should've gotten anything. It's a principle thing. Even if you're pitcher's the biggest guy on the field, if you're an infielder, you protect him. And he did. Oh, he did.

320

durl
09-03-2010, 01:40 PM
Here's the suspension list per Heyman on Twitter:

I have a feeling that Morgan won't appeal this one, but I wonder if you can appeal a suspension when you're already appealing another one? :D

HeatherC1212
09-03-2010, 01:50 PM
Here's the official press release: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20100903&content_id=14235108&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Skipping the Morgan stuff which we all know pretty well by now, here's how they broke down the rest of the suspensions. Honestly, I can't argue with any of it after seeing that brawl a few times. It wasn't just one person involved and the main person in the middle of all of it (Morgan) may not see the field again for the rest of the season if all the suspensions play out (that's 15 games total so he could see time at the very end of the season). It all seems fair IMO.


Discipline has been issued to others as a result of the September 1st incident. Marlins pitcher Chris Volstad has received a six-game suspension and an undisclosed fine for intentionally throwing at Morgan on two occasions and for fighting during the bench-clearing incident. Marlins pitcher Alex Sanabia has received a five-game suspension for fighting during the bench-clearing incident. Marlins first baseman Gaby Sanchez has received a three-game suspension for his aggressive actions and fighting during the bench-clearing incident. Marlins pitcher Jose Veras has been fined for his aggressive actions and comments during the incident.

Nationals pitcher Doug Slaten has received a three-game suspension for intentionally throwing a pitch at Sanchez in the bottom of the seventh after a warning had been issued in the sixth inning. The suspensions of all players are scheduled to begin tonight, unless appealed, with the exception of Sanabia, whose suspension is scheduled to begin on Wednesday, pending appeal, in order to avoid overlapping with Volstad's scheduled suspension. If any players choose to appeal, their discipline will be held in abeyance until the process is complete.

In addition, the two managers have been disciplined as a result of the September 1st incident. Nationals manager Jim Riggleman has been suspended for two games and fined an undisclosed amount. Watson cited Riggleman for his aggressive actions during the bench-clearing incident and for the intentional actions of his pitcher Slaten after a warning had been issued earlier in the game. Frank Robinson, Senior Vice President of Major League Operations, has imposed an additional fine to Riggleman for his inappropriate comments regarding the incident. Riggleman is scheduled to serve his suspension on Friday and Saturday, when the Nationals are to play at Pittsburgh. Marlins manager Edwin Rodriguez has been suspended for one game and fined an undisclosed amount for his aggressive actions during the bench-clearing incident. Rodriguez is scheduled to serve his suspension tonight, when the Marlins are to host the Atlanta Braves.

Nationals third base coach Pat Listach has been suspended for three games and fined an undisclosed amount for his aggressive actions during the bench-clearing incident. In order to avoid overlapping with the suspension of Riggleman, Listach's suspension will be scheduled to begin on Sunday, when the Nationals are scheduled to continue their series at Pittsburgh.

cumberlandreds
09-03-2010, 01:57 PM
I forgot about Morgan appealing his first suspension. I doubt he wins that appeal now. That would be 15 games in all for him. That takes about half of the rest of the season.

I don't understand why Riggleman got two games while Rodriquez only got one game? He obviously ordered that 2nd brushback to Morgan. I would think that would warrant more than 1 game?

CTA513
09-03-2010, 02:09 PM
I don't think Gaby Sanchez should've gotten anything. It's a principle thing. Even if you're pitcher's the biggest guy on the field, if you're an infielder, you protect him. And he did. Oh, he did.

320

Sanchez was fighting and was suspended for doing so.
He protected Volstad for a few seconds and then Volstad ended up on the bottom of the pile anyway.

westofyou
09-03-2010, 02:18 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/09/03/code/



I spent nearly five years researching and writing The Baseball Codes, talking (in conjunction with my collaborator, Michael Duca) to some 250 ballplayers and ex-ballplayers about the topic, Never once did I encounter such a blatant spate of disregard for the Code, in such a consistent manner, as that shown by Morgan over recent days.

TheNext44
09-03-2010, 02:44 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/09/03/code/

After reading that article, the only conclusion I was able to draw was that these "unwritten rules" are asinine and need to be re-"unwritten."

I also believe that many players, both present and past would disagree with the authors' definition of these rules.

Brutus
09-03-2010, 02:49 PM
After reading that article, the only conclusion I was able to draw was that these "unwritten rules" are asinine and need to be re-"unwritten."

I also believe that many players, both present and past would disagree with the authors' definition of these rules.

100% agree.

If stealing bases down 10 runs is a violation of unwritten code, it's the code not the player that needs plunked.

You bean me and I'm trying to win a game and it's not OK for me to steal? In my best italian voice, "forget that."

The game is 9 innings long. Why should players stop stealing when they have 5 more innings to try and come back? That's the dumbest logic I've ever heard.

Cedric
09-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Unwritten rules are dumb..

Nyjer Morgan is a head case still. He over slid the bag both times and almost took out the fielder for no reason other than trying to pick a fight.

The guy is a ticking time bomb who is mad at getting demoted. The hit on Hayes for Florida was one of the most bush league moves I have ever seen.

He took away the winning run for his team because he wanted to land a cheap shot! Just think of how how selfish this guy is.

TheNext44
09-03-2010, 03:08 PM
Unwritten rules are dumb..

Nyjer Morgan is a head case still. He over slid the bag both times and almost took out the fielder for no reason other than trying to pick a fight.

The guy is a ticking time bomb who is mad at getting demoted. The hit on Hayes for Florida was one of the most bush league moves I have ever seen.

He took away the winning run for his team because he wanted to land a cheap shot! Just think of how how selfish this guy is.

The guys got issues, no doubt, but to me, it seems like he's just overly competative and makes dumb decisions. I don't think he was thinking that he wanted to take Hayes out, I think he was thinking that barralling over the guy was the best way to score. A dumb decision, but not a malicious one.

I really don't see much difference between what Morgan has done and what Freel did when he played.

VR
09-03-2010, 03:12 PM
100% agree.

If stealing bases down 10 runs is a violation of unwritten code, it's the code not the player that needs plunked.

You bean me and I'm trying to win a game and it's not OK for me to steal? In my best italian voice, "forget that."

The game is 9 innings long. Why should players stop stealing when they have 5 more innings to try and come back? That's the dumbest logic I've ever heard.

Yeah....I agree. What I saw out of Morgan was him stealing a base...then standing up and dropping 'you mother effer blah blah blah'. I think thats what got the boys a bit fired up.

Do it, fine, Keep your head down and carry on.


Thats the beauty of baseball over football in this regard....it keeps the game much more 'civil'.

VR
09-03-2010, 03:13 PM
The guys got issues, no doubt, but to me, it seems like he's just overly competative and makes dumb decisions. I don't think he was thinking that he wanted to take Hayes out, I think he was thinking that barralling over the guy was the best way to score. A dumb decision, but not a malicious one.

I really don't see much difference between what Morgan has done and what Freel did when he played.

That's a good question 44. To me....Freel did everything at 100% to help his team. It seems Morgan does it with only himself in mind.

TheNext44
09-03-2010, 03:16 PM
That's a good question 44. To me....Freel did everything at 100% to help his team. It seems Morgan does it with only himself in mind.

That's a good analysis. But I would just adjust it to say that Morgan does it with himself more in mind than Freel did. Morgan wants to win too, and I think that is his main driving force. Although I think we need a therapist to really understand either of these two knuckleheads.

Brutus
09-03-2010, 03:22 PM
Yeah....I agree. What I saw out of Morgan was him stealing a base...then standing up and dropping 'you mother effer blah blah blah'. I think thats what got the boys a bit fired up.

Do it, fine, Keep your head down and carry on.


Thats the beauty of baseball over football in this regard....it keeps the game much more 'civil'.

I don't care for the conduct, but again, he's hardly the only one that does that and no one else is getting plunked for it, or at least not terribly often. If that's the reason why he was beaned, then let's drop the pretense of the 'unwritten rules that you don't steal bases down by 10 or 11 runs.' Problem is, everyone is saying that's why he got beaned and that's a bunch of hooey.

He's a showboat, no doubt. But frankly that's a stupid reason to plunk someone, just as it is stealing a base down 10.

SunDeck
09-03-2010, 03:25 PM
I think we're getting caught up over the term "unwritten rule". There is no such thing, except to say that anytime a player acts like a jerk, shows up another player or intentionally tries to hurt an opponent, then there is a systematic way to retaliate. If anything, Morgan ignored the system and the Marlins decided to emphasize their point.

It's really not too different than the social systems of the typical workplace. For instance, it's not cool to show up at work on your first day and act like you own the place...unless you recently bought the place. There are "unwritten" rules of civility, seniority, pecking order, etc. and people act accordingly when expectations for "appropriate" behavior are not met. Of course, a big difference is that the sanction in the office is not getting invited out for the after office beer, as opposed to getting drilled in the ribs with the office rubber band ball.

edabbs44
09-03-2010, 03:43 PM
The guys got issues, no doubt, but to me, it seems like he's just overly competative and makes dumb decisions. I don't think he was thinking that he wanted to take Hayes out, I think he was thinking that barralling over the guy was the best way to score. A dumb decision, but not a malicious one.

I really don't see much difference between what Morgan has done and what Freel did when he played.

That hit on Hayes was both dumb and malicious.

Brutus
09-03-2010, 03:46 PM
That hit on Hayes was both dumb and malicious.

Dumb, absolutely. I didn't see anything malicious about it. I've seen far, far worse. I thought the Anderson hit last week was malicious because he went out of his way to do it. The Hayes thing was unnecessary, but it wasn't out of bounds.

edabbs44
09-03-2010, 04:02 PM
Dumb, absolutely. I didn't see anything malicious about it. I've seen far, far worse. I thought the Anderson hit last week was malicious because he went out of his way to do it. The Hayes thing was unnecessary, but it wasn't out of bounds.

He scores without drilling him. Kind of like a linebacker blindsiding a QB and calling it a block when he is on the other side of the field. There was zero need.

edabbs44
09-03-2010, 04:09 PM
ACtually, I'm going to have to rewatch. I might be confusing the plays.

TheNext44
09-03-2010, 04:09 PM
Here's my controversial, politically volatile view on the unwritten rules of baseball.

For the most part they were written (or unwritten) when baseball was a segregated game played in a few states that were physically close and culturally similar. Baseball back then was more like a closed country club with less than half the number of players than the game has currently, who pretty much looked, acted and sounded alike. A uniform code of conduct made sense and was easy to apply.

But now the game is more diverse than it's country of origin. Nearly every skin color, language and culture is represented in the game today. A uniform code of conduct just doesn't make sense, and doesn't work. A code that makes sense to Scott Rolen probably doesn't make the same amount of sense to Bronson Arroyo, whose code doesn't make much sense to Jonny Gomes, whose code doesn't make much sense to Brandon Phillips, whose code doesn't make much sense to Carlos Fisher, whose code doesn't make much senes to Joey Votto, whose Canadian, so who knows what kind a of crazy code he has.

The point is that baseball really can't have a one size fits all universal code of conduct between it's players. There still needs to be rules, which the league has, and inforces. But these unwritten rules should be a thing of the past.

Brutus
09-03-2010, 04:16 PM
ACtually, I'm going to have to rewatch. I might be confusing the plays.

I think you are referring to the incident against the Cardinals. That one was completely unwarranted.