PDA

View Full Version : Division of power...



brm7675
09-03-2010, 02:40 PM
It's nice to see the Reds successful. But it begs the question, who is responsible for this incredible season? Did Walt do his job and bring in the right talent? Or can we look back at previous GM's and the scouting team who got the Reds good draft choices? What about Dusty? What share of the credit does he deserve? Each year he has been here there has been some increase in improvement. We know in the end it's the players but if you had to assign credit where and how much do the non players get?

Captain13
09-03-2010, 02:47 PM
You have to start at the top. Walt has done it again. He built a winner in Oak-town he built a winner in St. Looey, and he's building a winner in Cincy (this time without TLR). Dusty deserves credit for keeping a happy clubhouse (and that is no small feat when dealing with 40+ atheletes, 25 at a time).

zacharync
09-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Credit has to go to the players as well. Votto, Rolen, Phillips, Bullpen, Cueto, Arroyo to name more than a few.

brm7675
09-03-2010, 04:33 PM
You have to start at the top. Walt has done it again. He built a winner in Oak-town he built a winner in St. Looey, and he's building a winner in Cincy (this time without TLR). Dusty deserves credit for keeping a happy clubhouse (and that is no small feat when dealing with 40+ atheletes, 25 at a time).

Outside of Leake and the addition of Rolen what other key players has Walt brought in? The other young players were drafted and brought in by previous GM's were they not?

New York Red
09-03-2010, 04:38 PM
You have to start at the top. Walt has done it again. He built a winner in Oak-town he built a winner in St. Looey, and he's building a winner in Cincy (this time without TLR). Dusty deserves credit for keeping a happy clubhouse (and that is no small feat when dealing with 40+ atheletes, 25 at a time).
It definitely starts with Walt. I can't thank him enough for bringing competitive and exciting baseball back to Cincinnati, and to longtime Reds fans like myself all over the country. With so much young talent within the organization now, this year should just be the beginning of a extended stretch of success for the Reds. Jocketty also gets credit for not making any major moves leading up to the trade deadline. He stayed put and we have a serious WS contender in place.

Kudos of course to Dusty Baker for getting the most out of the talent we have, especially the younger guys. I've never been on the DB bandwagon, but he's done a helluva job this year. Should be chosen MOY.

And big props to the players. It's hard to single out one, but since Joey Votto is on the verge of winning an MVP - and possibly even the Triple Crown - we once again have a superstar in a Cincinnati Reds uniform. Four Reds made the all-star team and at the break Scott Rolen was a legitimate MVP candidate too. We have talent in depth in the pitching staff for the first time in what seems like forever, and as of this week we have the most talked about young pitching prospect in the entire league.

Lots to be excited about, and to look forward to, but Walt Jocketty is where it began. I had my doubts as to whether or not he could be successful here, but he's completely erased those doubts quickly. Thank you, Walt!

:beerme:

mckbearcat48
09-03-2010, 05:08 PM
From the outside, you can't deny how good a job Dusty has done with the squad he has. Walt has been great at his last two stops. I owe Dusty Baker an apology, I thought he was a detriment until this year.

OpeningDay
09-03-2010, 06:53 PM
In 15 seasons as a GM Walt Jocketty:
Record: 1269-1140
Winning Percentage: .527
Average Rank in Division: 2.46

In 16 seasons as a manager Dusty Baker:
Record: 1314-1213
Winning Percentage: .519
Average Rank in Division: 2.81

In 15 seasons as a franchise Cincinnati Reds
Record: 1166-1247
Winning Percentage: .483
Average Rank in Division: 3.6

First and foremost, the reason why this season is as successful as it is because of the players. Without Votto, Brandon, Rolen, Rhodes and yes even Gomes, this season would not be as successful thus far. However, in order to give justice to the success of the 2010 Cincinnati Reds, one must account for the pieces still in play in this strategic game of chess. Without Walt Jocketty it would be a completely different team (for better or worse) with most likely a completely different locker room presence, team makeup, yada yada yada and most importantly win-loss record.

But is it a coincidence that the Giants had a .502 winning average in the 5 years prior to Dusty becoming manager and when he became manager they posted a .540 average in the next 10 years under his control? Or is it a coincidence that the Cardinals had a .494 winning average in the 5 years before the time of Walt Jocketty as a GM and then when he took over they posted a .535 winning percentage over 13 seasons? You can be the judge, but I am a firm believer that history tends to repeat itself.

Note: Of course these calculations can be skewed to the fact that the Giants are in a 5 team league which is where Dusty managed a large portion of his career. As well these calculations do not factor this year.

bshall2105
09-03-2010, 06:55 PM
I think that Paul Janish is pretty much the only reason for the great season.

Kingspoint
09-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Who's responsible?

100% Castellini

By G.M.:

30% O'Brien for firing nearly everybody in nearly every aspect of Management and replacing them with better people and for establishing a real scouting department in Latin America. Also, he had good drafts.

40% for Krivsky for recognizing what O'Brien did, adding some even better people in different Management, Scouting, and Player Development areas, and for making trades that enhanced the entire organization. Also, for improving the development of the pitchers throughout the organization and for doing a better job of keeping them healthy. Also, good drafts.

30% for Walt for recognizing what his two previous G.M.'s did before him and not getting rid of some good people in Management, which would have been easy to do by bringing in his own people. For being patient and letting everything develop, while only tweaking everything. For improving the quality of the monitoring of pitchers by not over-extending them as they develop through the system. For taking a chance and acquiring Scott Rolen and Aroldis Chapman. Also, good drafts.

New York Red
09-03-2010, 10:46 PM
Who's responsible?

100% Castellini

By G.M.:

30% O'Brien for firing nearly everybody in nearly every aspect of Management and replacing them with better people and for establishing a real scouting department in Latin America. Also, he had good drafts.

40% for Krivsky for recognizing what O'Brien did, adding some even better people in different Management, Scouting, and Player Development areas, and for making trades that enhanced the entire organization. Also, for improving the development of the pitchers throughout the organization and for doing a better job of keeping them healthy. Also, good drafts.

30% for Walt for recognizing what his two previous G.M.'s did before him and not getting rid of some good people in Management, which would have been easy to do by bringing in his own people. For being patient and letting everything develop, while only tweaking everything. For improving the quality of the monitoring of pitchers by not over-extending them as they develop through the system. For taking a chance and acquiring Scott Rolen and Aroldis Chapman. Also, good drafts.
Good post, man.

Being in NY the past several years, I've admittedly been, in some ways, out of the loop in regards to my sports teams, including the Reds. Hence my leaving Castellini completely out of the equation. Maybe I've given Jocketty too much credit in these threads, but I know he deserves a lot of credit. But now that you've laid it out that way, I have to give Castellini even more of the credit. Together these two guys (and many others) have helped bring winning baseball back to Cincinnati - and I love it.

One thing I really enjoy about this site is being able to read posts from fans who are more knowledgeable of off-the-field things than I'm able to be the past few years. And I am very appreciative of those posters. Thanks!

Kingspoint
09-04-2010, 09:54 AM
I glean a tremendous amount of information from this site, too.

I really enjoy the Minor League section.

Fullboat
09-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Who's responsible?

100% Castellini

By G.M.:

30% O'Brien for firing nearly everybody in nearly every aspect of Management and replacing them with better people and for establishing a real scouting department in Latin America. Also, he had good drafts.

40% for Krivsky for recognizing what O'Brien did, adding some even better people in different Management, Scouting, and Player Development areas, and for making trades that enhanced the entire organization. Also, for improving the development of the pitchers throughout the organization and for doing a better job of keeping them healthy. Also, good drafts.

30% for Walt for recognizing what his two previous G.M.'s did before him and not getting rid of some good people in Management, which would have been easy to do by bringing in his own people. For being patient and letting everything develop, while only tweaking everything. For improving the quality of the monitoring of pitchers by not over-extending them as they develop through the system. For taking a chance and acquiring Scott Rolen and Aroldis Chapman. Also, good drafts.

Nice Post!

improbus
09-04-2010, 03:54 PM
I agree with many of the things said above. But, I would also like to add that the trading of Junior and Dunn have played a huge roll in this turnaround and also in the positive future of the ballclub. Now, I'm not going to do the typical Dunn bashing that you may think, but instead I want to point out that getting rid of Dunn and Griffey was the final move in the trend of investing our money in pitching instead of hitting.

Also, with Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero coming off the books, the Reds will have the payroll flexibility to lock up their young guys long term (unlike the Brewers, Indians, Marlins, etc...). The future looks bright in Cincinnati.