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Redsfan320
09-08-2010, 06:17 PM
Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Gomes 7
Hanigan 2
Heisey 9
Janish 6
Arroyo 1

vs. Aaron Cook (5-8, 5.21 ERA, 1.57 WHIP, 58 K)

Thought I'd try to break the losing streak.

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BRM
09-08-2010, 06:28 PM
Looks like OCab and Janish are alternating games now. Each one playing every other day.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm glad Stubbs and Heisey were split apart. I was tiring of the back-to-back strikeouts.

kaldaniels
09-08-2010, 06:58 PM
I'm glad Stubbs and Heisey were split apart. I was tiring of the back-to-back strikeouts.

Yeah I know...cause thats happened like 2 entire times over the past week...its been brutal.

SirFelixCat
09-08-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm glad Stubbs and Heisey were split apart. I was tiring of the back-to-back strikeouts.

Yeah, Stubbs was brutal last night.:rolleyes:


You really should take a day off or two. I think it would do you and the board, both, some good.


Go Reds and seats behind HP again tonight!:beerme:

oneupper
09-08-2010, 07:14 PM
Looks like OCab and Janish are alternating games now. Each one playing every other day.

Hernaningan at C and Janrera at SS? :D

Redsfan320
09-08-2010, 07:16 PM
Go Reds and seats behind HP again tonight!


Seats behind home plate??? How the HECK did you get those???

320

The Operator
09-08-2010, 07:17 PM
Looks like OCab and Janish are alternating games now. Each one playing every other day.I think that's a great idea.

BRM
09-08-2010, 07:20 PM
I think that's a great idea.

I don't really have a problem with it either. Hanigan and Hernandez are basically doing that as well.

reds44
09-08-2010, 07:29 PM
Bring up another OFer.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 07:38 PM
Yeah, Stubbs was brutal last night.:rolleyes:


You really should take a day off or two. I think it would do you and the board, both, some good.


Go Reds and seats behind HP again tonight!:beerme:

Why don't you take a day off or two? I'm just expressing an opinion.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 07:45 PM
Yeah I know...cause thats happened like 2 entire times over the past week...its been brutal.

It was hyperbole to express a point that, collectively, they have not been very productive. The two are 10-for-46 so far this month with 15 strikeouts.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 08:16 PM
It was hyperbole to express a point that, collectively, they have not been very productive. The two are 10-for-46 so far this month with 15 strikeouts.

We are talking about 6 games.

In baseball, with the inherent randomness, one good game and they could be hot for the last week.

If Stubbs goes 1-4 tonight with a walk and HR, his OPS for the month goes to about his yearly level.

Remember the Reds this month have faced 4 of the NL's best pitchers this season.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 08:23 PM
We are talking about 6 games.

In baseball, with the inherent randomness, one good game and they could be hot for the last week.

If Stubbs goes 1-4 tonight with a walk and HR, his OPS for the month goes to about his yearly level.

Remember the Reds this month have faced 4 of the NL's best pitchers this season.

Stubbs' OPS is down to .711 this season. That's talking about 138 games. Heisey's is still a respectable .774 but has been sinking like a rock considering he had a .673 OPS in the month of August as well.

We're not just talking about inherent randomness right now with these two.

Redsfan320
09-08-2010, 08:28 PM
What the HECK is Gomes still doing in the lineup?!?!?! COME ON DUSTY!!!!!!

















;)

320

kaldaniels
09-08-2010, 08:45 PM
It was hyperbole to express a point that, collectively, they have not been very productive. The two are 10-for-46 so far this month with 15 strikeouts.

In other words, an exaggeration.

I love how that is passed off as "hyperbole to express a point". I'm gonna remember that one for my own use someday I think.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 08:54 PM
In other words, an exaggeration.

I love how that is passed off as "hyperbole to express a point". I'm gonna remember that one for my own use someday I think.

This forum is filled with hyperbole on all sides of debates every single day. The only difference is that I'm admitting to using it purposefully. Some people seem to be buying into the exaggerations they make.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 09:02 PM
Stubbs' OPS is down to .711 this season. That's talking about 138 games.

Stubb's OPS has been around .700 most of the season, after a very slow start.

It hasn't suddenly nosedived.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Stubb's OPS has been around .700 most of the season, after a very slow start.

It hasn't suddenly nosedived.

I never said it nosedived. I said it's 'down' to .711 because last time I looked, that wasn't very productive. The league split for ALL centerfielders this year is 729. So Stubbs isn't producing very well.

I don't care if it's nosedived or stayed almost static... .711 OPS isn't good enough from a centerfielder.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:08 PM
I never said it nosedived. I said it's 'down' to .711 because last time I looked, that wasn't very productive. The league split for ALL centerfielders this year is 729. So Stubbs isn't producing very well.

I don't care if it's nosedived or stayed almost static... .711 OPS isn't good enough from a centerfielder.

Seems good enough to be on a first place team by 6 games. Good enough is relative.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 09:10 PM
Seems good enough to be on a first place team by 6 games. Good enough is relative.

You could say the same about Gomes, but it hasn't stopped people from carrying on about needing to get him out of the lineup, has it?

By your logic, we can't criticize anyone on the team or anything about the team because they're in first place. Right?

You were criticizing Cueto yesterday in the first inning. Leake a few weeks ago. etc. etc. Does that nullify your argument since they were in first?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:21 PM
You could say the same about Gomes, but it hasn't stopped people from carrying on about needing to get him out of the lineup, has it?

By your logic, we can't criticize anyone on the team or anything about the team because they're in first place. Right?

You were criticizing Cueto yesterday in the first inning. Leake a few weeks ago. etc. etc. Does that nullify your argument since they were in first?

Criticizing and saying they shouldn't play are different. I'm saying it's relative based on who are the other options.

Degenerate39
09-08-2010, 09:24 PM
What the HECK is Gomes still doing in the lineup?!?!?! COME ON DUSTY!!!!!!

Who else you going to put in the outfield right now?

LvJ
09-08-2010, 09:35 PM
Votto needs to step it up in September. Pretty awful showing by him lately.

Carlos Gonzalez on the other hand... it'd be hard not to give the MVP to him if the Rockies make the playoffs.

Redsfan320
09-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Who else you going to put in the outfield right now?

Notice the wink at the end of the post. Also, check out last night's game thread. That should clear some things up. :D

320

Brutus
09-08-2010, 09:43 PM
Criticizing and saying they shouldn't play are different. I'm saying it's relative based on who are the other options.

Well I never said they shouldn't play. Right now, there's not even a choice. They pretty much have to play. I'm just pointing out they haven't been terribly productive recently (Stubbs for the year and Heisey especially the last month)... and that I prefer they be split up in the order.

Degenerate39
09-08-2010, 09:45 PM
A Vottomatic RBI

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 09:46 PM
Reds are great again.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Didn't Rolen have 17 homers by late June? Would be nice if he got hot again.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:50 PM
Rolen and Gomes both K.. Btm 1st 1-0.

RedsMan3203
09-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Didn't Rolen have 17 homers by late June? Would be nice if he got hot again.

He hit his 17th HR of the year on 6/28 against Kyle Kendrick.

Number 18 7/31 against ATL

Number 19 8/24 against SF

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:52 PM
LH hell for Bronson tonight. Not exciting news for the good guys.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Can of corn for the 1st out. Cargo up with man on 1st.

GAC
09-08-2010, 09:56 PM
chat is open

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:57 PM
3-1 Brewers bottom of the 3rd.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 09:58 PM
That was a big K by Bronson. Nice work.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:58 PM
That was a big K by Bronson. Nice work.

Nasty pitch.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 09:59 PM
Stolen base for EYoung.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:00 PM
Another can of corn to end the inning. 1-0 Reds after one.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm going to be holding my breath on all these fly balls out there in Denver. But as long as they keep dropping into a glove, all will be well.

VR
09-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Nice job by Arroyo there. Let's hope he can keep these bats in check all night.


Any word on Bruce yet?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Heisey grounds out back to the pitcher. 1 out.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Nice job by Arroyo there. Let's hope he can keep these bats in check all night.


Any word on Bruce yet?

To borrow a (often overused) line from the Reds, "maybe tomorrow!"

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:04 PM
Hanigan grounds out to Tulo for the 2nd out.

RedsMan3203
09-08-2010, 10:04 PM
When is that guys contract up? And will Bob and Company spend the bucks to get him in the Nati?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:04 PM
My word these innings fly for the Reds. Janish grounds out. btm 2nd 1-0 Reds.

HokieRed
09-08-2010, 10:05 PM
My word these innings fly for the Reds. Janish grounds out. btm 2nd 1-0 Reds.

Doesn't take long to score three runs.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:08 PM
Bronson gets Helton swinging. 1 out.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:09 PM
Seth Smith lines a single into LF. 1 out and a man on first.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:12 PM
Olivo gets a bloop double. 2nd and 3rd with one out.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:14 PM
Herrera lines a base hit into RF with the pitcher on deck. 2-1 Rockies.

HokieRed
09-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Herrera lines a base hit into RF with the pitcher on deck. 2-1 Rockies.

Will be a hard lead to overcome with Stubbs, Heisey, and Janish in the lineup at the same time.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Cook grounds out off Arroyo with the Butcher boy play. The deflection gets the runner to 2nd.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Will be a hard lead to overcome with Stubbs, Heisey, and Janish in the lineup at the same time.

Eh? Stubbs scored the first run.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:18 PM
EYoung grounds out to Bphil for the final out. 2-1 Rockies into the 3rd with Bronson leading off.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Corey Hart delivers.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Still 2 on, 2 out in the 4th. 4-1 Brew Crew

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:20 PM
Braun!

7-1 Brewers

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:21 PM
Bronson with a leadoff single to RF. Nice.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:22 PM
Stubbs with a single to RF. 1st and 2nd nobody out for Bphill.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:22 PM
Hope Capuano can last for a bit in that game. Lefties have been death to the Cards this year. They see a righty tomorrow in Atlanta, then a lefty again Friday night.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:22 PM
OK now. Brewers are taking care of their business. Time for Cincinnati to do theirs.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Bphil swinging away it looks like. In Colorado and this early that has to be the play here.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Ball 3 and he's hacking away.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Brandon swings at ball 3 literally off the dirt and grounds into a DP. Sigh.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:24 PM
Good grief. Phillips has been an albatross the past week or two.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:24 PM
That was beyond awful. Get it together, Brandon. If the hand still hurts, don't play.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:25 PM
That was beyond awful. Get it together, Brandon. If the hand still hurts, don't play.

Pressing bad. Just play the game and trust your talent. Easy for me to say.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:25 PM
Hope Capuano can last for a bit in that game. Lefties have been death to the Cards this year. They see a righty tomorrow in Atlanta, then a lefty again Friday night.

Yes. .706 team OPS against LHP.

sivman17
09-08-2010, 10:25 PM
Why wasn't Phillips bunting?

2nd and 3rd base with 1 out for Votto, a guy who normally hits ground balls to the right side?

instead we get guy on 3rd, 2 outs, and an IBB to Votto?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:25 PM
Cook walks Votto on 4 pitches and the last one is intentional ball.

HokieRed
09-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Why wasn't Phillips bunting?

2nd and 3rd base with 1 out for Votto, a guy who normally hits ground balls to the right side?

instead we get guy on 3rd, 2 outs, and an IBB to Votto?

Can you expect your leader to bunt?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Rolen pops out to shallow CF. Major chance wasted that inning.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:28 PM
When Bphil is pressing you can almost guarantee a weak ground ball. With Cook having such a good sinker I can understand why some would want a bunt. Tough call there.

traderumor
09-08-2010, 10:28 PM
This series is starting to smell like that nightmare in Philly. Can't buy a big hit to save us.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-08-2010, 10:29 PM
Phillips tries to hit 6-run HRs. If this is how he's pressing now, imagine what he'll try to do in the playoffs.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 10:29 PM
Chris Valaika anyone? I would assume Brandon's still hurt which doesn't play well with the mental side of his game.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:29 PM
This series is starting to smell like that nightmare in Philly. Can't buy a big hit to save us.

I'd love to see Francisco play 3b tomorrow. Why not try and switch this up?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
Fowler dumps a bloop single into LF. This ballpark is just absurd. Can I say that now?

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
The threat of Gomes holds Fowler.

VR
09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
Jaime Garcia getting rocked. Who would have guessed?

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Fowler dumps a bloop single into LF. This ballpark is just absurd. Can I say that now?

The OF is rather large. More than anything, avg is very inflated.

Phhhl
09-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Why do they ever bat Phillips other than first? If this year has proven aything, it's that he needs to stay in the leadoff spot. With a pitcher in front of him, he would rarely come up with a man on first with less than two outs. The double plays are a humongous blight on his game, and he is a good offensive player otherwise.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Bronson walks Gonzalez on 4 pitches. 2nd and 1st with nobody out for Helton.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 10:32 PM
Larussa pinch hit for Garcia already.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:32 PM
Half Innings like the Reds just had can be deflating.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 10:32 PM
The 1st and 3rd pitches to Cargo were strikes, per GameDay. Even the 4th was in the black. Arroyo missed Hanigans target and the ump punished him for it.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:33 PM
Why do they ever bat Phillips other than first? If this year has proven aything, it's that he needs to stay in the leadoff spot. With a pitcher in front of him, he would rarely come up with a man on first with less than two outs. The double plays are a humongous blight on his game, and he is a good offensive player otherwise.

He would have that AB. :)

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Good bye. :)

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Sigh.... 5-1.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Tulowitzki hits a 3 run bomb. 5-1 Rockies.

I'm out guys.

CTA513
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
It looks like Harang is pitching again tonight.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
I've gotten to the point that I can't watch the REDS in the field. I switch to the cards game.
Pathetic I know.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Glad I didn't see that.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
Anyone believe me yet about that sweep?

Phhhl
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
He would have that AB. :)

My point being... they finally found a slot for the guy where his worst flawscould be somewhat neutralized, he seemed to excel in it and for some reason the project has been trashed.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
So do we just hope that The Cards lose 20 more for us?

HokieRed
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
Put in Alonso, move Gomes to right, maybe put Francisco at 3rd and rest Rolen the rest of the game. Take a chance on winning the game.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:37 PM
So do we just hope that The Cards lose 20 more for us?

Sounds like a plan.

Joseph
09-08-2010, 10:37 PM
Whats our record against winning teams?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:37 PM
So do we just hope that The Cards lose 20 more for us?

With this staff that would be the case if we didn't play such a crappy schedule. This division is won and I'm not sweating this series. It's just bad timing all the way around.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:38 PM
Whats our record against winning teams?A little - A lot

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 10:38 PM
Whats our record against winning teams?

Don't ask, don't tell.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:39 PM
My point being is that they finally found a slot for the guy where his worst flaws could be somewhat neutralized, he seemed to excel in it and for some reason the project has been trashed.

Going into today he is averaging one DP in every 90 PAs in the 1 hole and one in every 65 in the 2 hole. What is that, like 3 over the course of the season.

Add the 100+ pts onto his OPS in the 2 hole this season and he is probably ok in the 2 hole.

But it doesn't bother me either way. He just needs to hit.

And Jonny Gomes is making his bid for the GG.

CTA513
09-08-2010, 10:39 PM
Put in Alonso, move Gomes to right, maybe put Francisco at 3rd and rest Rolen the rest of the game. Take a chance on winning the game.

I'm going to guess the pitchers wouldn't be happy with that.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:39 PM
Whats our record against winning teams?

21-32 including tonight

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Again the Reds are getting some bad luck though. Olivo in the 2nd swung at a ball a foot outside and unlike Phillips gets rewarded. Fowler gets jammed and gets a single in front of Cargo and Tulowitzki.

Baseball is so much luck.

HokieRed
09-08-2010, 10:41 PM
I'm going to guess the pitchers wouldn't be happy with that.

The defense hasn't helped tonight's pitcher much. Besides, I think the pitchers might like having a lineup that has at least some chance to score more than 3 runs.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:42 PM
I'll pay for the bulldozers if you guys wanna join me in demolishing Coors Field. That place is just a joke.

Mr. suddenly Triple Crown, Carlos Gonzalez, has a 1.241 OPS at Coors with a whopping .760 OPS on the road. Looks like a Coors Field product to me.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:43 PM
Again the Reds are getting some bad luck though. Olivo in the 2nd swung at a ball a foot outside and unlike Phillips gets rewarded. Fowler gets jammed and gets a single in front of Cargo and Tulowitzki.

Baseball is so much luck.

And there is a reason why Colorado kills teams at home.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 10:43 PM
After 3 innings, Rockies 5, Reds 1.

Cook at 36 pitches, 25 strikes.
Arroyo at 70 pitches, 42 strikes.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:43 PM
And there is a reason why Colorado kills teams at home.

Both teams play in that environment, don't they?

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:44 PM
Both teams play in that environment, don't they?

It's a major advantage getting to build a team to play 81 games in that environment.

The Rockies are terrible on the road and great at home for a reason. You don't hit .301 as a team at home and .228 on the road without that being a factor.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Both teams play in that environment, don't they?It's a LOT different when you're used to playing there for 81 games a year, though.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm convinced that umps give a home field advantage with their calls also. Balls and Strikes. REDS benefit from it also at GABP.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:46 PM
Another 1-pitch out. Cook may go all 9 tonight.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-08-2010, 10:46 PM
It's not Coors Field's fault anymore than it's Turner Field's Fault, citizens bank park's fault, AT&T park's fault, Busch stadium's fault, etc. Reds can't beat good teams

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:46 PM
I'm convinced that umps give a home field advantage with their calls also. Balls and Strikes. REDS benefit from it also at GABP.

Jon Miller of the giants announcing crew claims that the balls the Rockies hit are not stored in a humidor like the one's road team gets.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:46 PM
It's a major advantage getting to build a team to play 81 games in that environment.

The Rockies are terrible on the road and great at home for a reason. You don't hit .301 as a team at home and .228 on the road without that being a factor.

Exactly. Physically, mentally, fundamentally.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:46 PM
It's not Coors Field's fault anymore than it's Turner Field's Fault, citizens bank park's fault, AT&T park's fault, Busch stadium's fault, etc. Reds can't beat good teams

There is some truth in that. But who exactly beats Colorado in their park? It's not just the Reds that struggle there.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:47 PM
It's a major advantage getting to build a team to play 81 games in that environment.

The Rockies are terrible on the road and great at home for a reason. You don't hit .301 as a team at home and .228 on the road without that being a factor.

I'm not so sure the team is built too much to the park. They've added a few pitchers (like Cook) with good sinkers to induce grounders, and they've certainly emphasized speed in the outfield, but most of these things don't have anything to do with how they hit.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 10:47 PM
Jon Miller of the giants announcing crew claims that the balls the Rockies hit are not stored in a humidor like the one's road team gets.Ya know, I've always wondered about that myself. It wouldn't surprise me even a little bit.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:48 PM
Olivo frames the ball better than anyone I have seen this year. He snaps the ball into the zone.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 10:48 PM
Ya know, I've always wondered about that myself. It wouldn't surprise me even a little bit.

This generations's version of the air conditioning at the Metrodome?

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm convinced that umps give a home field advantage with their calls also. Balls and Strikes. REDS benefit from it also at GABP.
Saw that on Heisey there, and the walk to Cargo last inning.

CTA513
09-08-2010, 10:49 PM
The defense hasn't helped tonight's pitcher much. Besides, I think the pitchers might like having a lineup that has at least some chance to score more than 3 runs.

The Reds would have to trade for a bunch of strike out pitchers if you plan on ditching the defense for the chance to score more runs.

reds44
09-08-2010, 10:49 PM
Any day that goes off the schedule in which we don't lose any ground on the Cardinals is a good day, rememeber that.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Even the Pirates are almost .500 at home. Sorry, but that team's not built to win anywhere.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Any day that goes off the schedule in which we don't lose any ground on the Cardinals is a good day, rememeber that.

It's the truth. This thread has been pretty positive considering what is going down on the field.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm not so sure the team is built too much to the park. They've added a few pitchers (like Cook) with good sinkers to induce grounders, and they've certainly emphasized speed in the outfield, but most of these things don't have anything to do with how they hit.

But you learn to play to the dimensions. If you model your swing to just get the bat on the ball instead of trying to drive it, maybe that helps.

The other thing is that pitching is much more difficult there. From what I have read, it just wrecks you pitching there if you aren't used to it.

It's why the Broncos have been a historically tough team to beat at home.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:50 PM
Jon Miller of the giants announcing crew claims that the balls the Rockies hit are not stored in a humidor like the one's road team gets.

Well that would be something Major League Baseball should look into. I doubt the veracity of that allegation, though, because the baseballs are coming from the same place once the game starts. Unless they're carefully selecting replacements each inning to give to the umpire, which even then is not guaranteed of being used when expected, I just don't think it's likely for that to work.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 10:51 PM
I didn't realize Cook had such good stuff.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:51 PM
But you learn to play to the dimensions. If you model your swing to just get the bat on the ball instead of trying to drive it, maybe that helps.

The other thing is that pitching is much more difficult there. From what I have read, it just wrecks you pitching there if you aren't used to it.

It's why the Broncos have been a historically tough team to beat at home.

When you're hitting, it's see the ball and hit the ball. You swing according to the pitch and location but I'm sorry, guys aren't able to tailor swings to the park. That just isn't feasible.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:52 PM
I didn't realize Cook had such good stuff.

Honestly the guy stinks. The Reds just have had some bad luck and Phillips killed a potentially huge inning.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:53 PM
MLB and its umps wants the fans to go home happy if possible. It's a conspiracy, I'm telling ya. :)

Phhhl
09-08-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm not so sure the team is built too much to the park. They've added a few pitchers (like Cook) with good sinkers to induce grounders, and they've certainly emphasized speed in the outfield, but most of these things don't have anything to do with how they hit.

A lot of teams play better at home than on the road. The Reds, for instance, have played all these "good" teams much better at home than they have on the road this year. I don't think it's a stretch to say the Rockies seem to have an exaggerated advantage over most "good" teams.

Anyway, I am just glad this trip is almost over with. I am beyond getting upset by the poor play in this series. If the Reds come back home with a five or six game lead, things are lining up very nicely.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-08-2010, 10:54 PM
There is some truth in that. But who exactly beats Colorado in their park? It's not just the Reds that struggle there.

Pirates own the Rockies in Denver actually. It's bizarre

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:54 PM
If Cargo wins the MVP it's a total joke. His splits are honestly pathetic. I hope the writers use a little common sense and realize what stats they are looking at.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:55 PM
Rockies 45-22 at Home.
Braves 49-19.

It's quite ridiculous.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
Cardinals are 43-24 at home. Whining will get you all those marginal calls at home.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
Rockies 45-22 at Home.
Braves 49-19.

It's quite ridiculous.

That Braves record is further proof why the Reds are in fine shape. Up 6 probably after tonight and the Cards have 4 in Atlanta over the weekend.

Joseph
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
21-32 including tonight

Which is gonna hurt come October.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
Jon Miller of the giants announcing crew claims that the balls the Rockies hit are not stored in a humidor like the one's road team gets.

This is hard for me to believe. While the stats support the idea, what would MLB do if this were proven? Would games be forfeited? Fines issued? Wow...

For this to be true, the ballboys would have to know, since they would take balls out to restock the umps. What happens if any ballboy ever spilled his guts?

Also, the homeplate ump keeps several balls in his pouch all the time. Three or four balls every inning would carry over from home to visitors....

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:56 PM
If Cargo wins the MVP it's a total joke. His splits are honestly pathetic. I hope the writers use a little common sense and realize what stats they are looking at.

The Colorado announcers are pleading his case for him, saying that a lot of guys have splits like that. It is one thing if it is random, but another if there is a reason for the split.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:57 PM
Which is gonna hurt come October.

Get to October and I am a happy man.

By the way, I have a baby being born in approximately 10 hours. Why am I watching this?

Brutus
09-08-2010, 10:58 PM
A lot of teams play better at home than on the road. The Reds, for instance, have played all these "good" teams much better at home than they have on the road this year. I don't think it's a stretch to say the Rockies seem to have an exaggerated advantage over most "good" teams.

Anyway, I am just glad this trip is almost over with. I am beyond getting upset by the poor play in this series. If the Reds come back home with a five or six game lead, things are lining up very nicely.

Sure, I'm not arguing teams don't play better at home. The home team wins, on average, between 57-60% of their games throughout the season.

But my point is that the Rockies excel at home, but I'm not sure the makeup of their team has too awfully much to do with it. Certainly it does help and I'm not saying it has no affect. It clearly does. But I don't think that explains it all.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:58 PM
Get to October and I am a happy man.

By the way, I have a baby being born in approximately 10 hours. Why am I watching this?

You are a sick man. But what else are you going to do?

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 10:59 PM
You are a sick man. But what else are you going to do?

Sleep?

oneupper
09-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Sleep?

Nah. Your sleeping days are over.

Phhhl
09-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Sleep?

Congrats! Someday, the baby will understand your priorities :).

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Another 1-pitch out.

These guys have some very frustrating stretches of over aggressiveness.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Tulowitzki is putting on a clinic.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Another 1-pitch out.

These guys have some very frustrating stretches of over aggressiveness.

And that's why such a great lineup can still go through major funks. Just not good approaches from guys like BPhil, Janish, Heisey.

Need Jay back in the worst possible way.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Janish and Heisey another 0-4 in their first 2 ABs. So weird how these guys are basically non-entities in the first half of games. Especially Heisey.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 11:02 PM
My explanation of the home/road splits for the Rockies goes to one thing: altitude.

If it is true that breaking balls don't break as much at that elevation due to thinner air and low humidity, the Rockies pitchers can adapt to that. Opposing hitters aren't used to it. However, opposing pitchers come in, and what works elsewhere suddenly doesn't work as well. The Rockies hitters are ready to hack away, and the result is higher averages and lots of hits off of hanging breaking pitches.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:02 PM
And that's why such a great lineup can still go through major funks. Just not good approaches from guys like BPhil, Janish, Heisey.

Need Jay back in the worst possible way.The thing that kills me is that they have such huge success when they show patience and work the pitcher. You'd think they would want to do that more. I suppose it always looks easy from the couch, though.

RedsMan3203
09-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Need Jay back in the worst possible way.

I bet alot of people wouldn't dream of saying that 3 weeks ago.

Reds/Flyers Fan
09-08-2010, 11:03 PM
Get to October and I am a happy man.

By the way, I have a baby being born in approximately 10 hours. Why am I watching this?

I don't have a baby being born in 10 hours and I'm not sure why I continue to watch. This seems like one of those no chance games. One run off Aaron freaking Cook at Coors field??? Come on!

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:03 PM
I think Cook's gonna go all the way, gents.

Didn't he throw a CG against The Reds earlier this year too?

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Cards go down in the 7th. Still 7-1 brewers.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Look at Aaron Cook's game log and try and not get sick. He has given up 5 ER's or more in five of his last 7 starts.

Guess which game he went 7 scoreless? And 5 more innings today at 1 ER.

Just bad.

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:05 PM
This sucks.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:05 PM
This sucks.

That's insightful. I'm gonna take back my vote for you in tORG. :D

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Why does Tulo wear eyeblack at night?

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Troy Tulowitzki is Satan.

Cedric
09-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Why does Tulo wear eyeblack at night?

He is an amazing player. I would tell everyone to do whatever the hell he is doing.

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:07 PM
He is an amazing player. I would tell everyone to do whatever the hell he is doing.
It just doesn't make sense. It's like wearing sunglasses at night.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:07 PM
Uh-oh. Cue the Corey Hart joke.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 11:07 PM
He is an amazing player. I would tell everyone to do whatever the hell he is doing.

Agreed. That high fastball, coming in at 88 mph from Arroyo, sure went a long ways.....

TeamBoone
09-08-2010, 11:08 PM
It just doesn't make sense. It's like wearing sunglasses at night.

Maybe the lights glare.

WHAT ON EARTH IS HAPPENING TO OUR REDS??????????????????

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:08 PM
Who do we play after the Rockies?

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Maybe the lights glare.

WHAT ON EARTH IS HAPPEN TO OUR REDS??????????????????

Somebody set us up the bomb?

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Pirates/Dbacks. We're fine.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
He is an amazing player. I would tell everyone to do whatever the hell he is doing.

I always wondered what would happen if a true superstar played at Coors. Like a guy who would OPS .900+ on the road. What would his numbers look like?

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Who do we play after the Rockies?

THe Bucos....

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Yep, that's about it. Peace out people.

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Pirates/Dbacks. We're fine.
Best news I've heard all day.

Arroyo scares the poop out of me when we play in the playoffs.

guttle11
09-08-2010, 11:10 PM
This is not going well...

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Bronson doing his Eric Milton impersonation right now. 7-1.

Game over.

mbgrayson
09-08-2010, 11:10 PM
I always wondered what would happen if a true superstar played at Coors. Like a guy who would OPS .900+ on the road. What would his numbers look like?

Like Matt Holliday perhaps?

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:10 PM
I thought Holliday had extreme home/away splits though too.

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 11:11 PM
I thought Holliday had extreme home/away splits though too.

They were fairly extreme. I was thinking like a guy who would put up .950 away and like 1.200 at home. Based on some of these splits, I bet it wouldn't be out of the realm for Pujols to do that in Colorado.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:12 PM
Arroyo's stuff is so pedestrian, that if he's not perfect with his location - this is what you get.

I'd pick up his option but I'd love to get somebody else over the winter to slide in the #1 spot in the rotation.

LoganBuck
09-08-2010, 11:12 PM
sigh......

Time to watch Terriers on FX

edabbs44
09-08-2010, 11:12 PM
Arroyo's stuff is so pedestrian, that if he's not perfect with his location - this is what you get.

I'd pick up his option but I'd love to get somebody else over the winter to slide in the #1 spot in the rotation.

His junk is less junky in the thin air.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:13 PM
I'd pull Phillips, Rolen, Votto and Gomes and give the kids a couple AB's the rest of the night.

RedsMan3203
09-08-2010, 11:13 PM
Glad Arroyo got this bad start out of him tonight instead of in the playoffs.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:13 PM
I thought Holliday had extreme home/away splits though too.

Holliday's road OPS improved every single season of his career. By the final year he was in Colorado, the splits were not terribly different.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:14 PM
Glad Arroyo got this bad start out of him tonight instead of in the playoffs.

How do we know he'll be limited to just one more of these?

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:15 PM
Think positive Brutus, think positive. :)

VR
09-08-2010, 11:15 PM
Very clearly a strategic move by the Reds.

Have to have a trainwreck series.....so they can start a big comeback winning streak. Just in time for the playoffs.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:17 PM
It's a butt whipping. 9-1.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Pythag is not going to look pretty after this series.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:18 PM
They could be the dumbest team in baseball. 1st pitch fastball. Seriously!

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Think positive Brutus, think positive. :)

I've been pretty positive for much of the season. After seeing nearly 55 games against top competition for the Reds, I'm convinced that the club just doesn't quite have enough for the postseason. Don't get me wrong... I'm not going to complain about a playoff appearance and I respect beating the teams they're supposed to beat, but I won't pretend it's not disappointing.

Now, anything can happen in a short series. Perhaps it's for that reason this kind of series is even more disappointing, as the Reds have a chance to gain homefield advantage. But just lacking a stopper at the top of the rotation and consistency within the offense.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 11:20 PM
Things could be worse.

Down 7-1, Larussa used 3 different pitchers to get 3 outs even though there were no runners on base in the bottom of the 7th.

But he's managing, that's all that matters.

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:20 PM
Oh, I agree. I even asked the magic 8 ball in my office about the Reds and the postseason today. It told me that the Reds will lose in the NLCS.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Cards go down in the 8th. Still 7-1.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Oh, I agree. I even asked the magic 8 ball in my office about the Reds and the postseason today. It told me that the Reds will lose in the NLCS.

What did it tell you about that Enron stock you bought heavily into?

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:22 PM
"Not clear, ask later."

:)

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:22 PM
One of these days we're going to get one of those Philly and Atlanta games back.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:22 PM
BPhil finally got a solid hit.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:23 PM
That was a shot

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:23 PM
Well, that's one way to get him out of there.

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:24 PM
Bet that hurt.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:24 PM
Well, that's one way to get him out of there.

Not good. Rockies still play St. Louis.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 11:24 PM
One of these days we're going to get one of those Philly and Atlanta games back.

It will probably be the "Giant kind" where we end up losing.....

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:25 PM
Not good. Rockies still play St. Louis.

The last series of the season.. hopefully it won't matter

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:25 PM
Not good. Rockies still play St. Louis.

He has a 6+ ERA against everyone not named Reds. I think it's a positive turn of events (not for Aaron though).

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:26 PM
He has a 6+ ERA against everyone not named Reds. I think it's a positive turn of events (not for Aaron though).

This year, 6+ ERA pitchers have been making a living off the Cardinals.

VR
09-08-2010, 11:32 PM
Rolen flies to center....1 down.

MississippiRed
09-08-2010, 11:33 PM
I think Dusty has punched many right buttons this season. But with expanded rosters, in the middle of a pennant race, who leaves a starting pitcher in long enough to give up 7 earned runs? (Oh, both Dusty and LaGenius did so tonight.)

OesterPoster
09-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Bad karma tonight. Time to watch Tosh.0

reds44
09-08-2010, 11:33 PM
I give up after that.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:34 PM
That is really getting old. First 2 runners reach, stranded. :bang:

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:34 PM
So many promising innings lately that have just completely gone sour

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:36 PM
So many promising innings lately that have just completely gone sour

Too many holes in the lineup right now. Makes it real tough to put an inning together without it blowing up. Rolen not hitting magnifies the problems.

I would put Alonso in LF just for fun.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:37 PM
Janish landed right on that, that can't feel good

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:37 PM
If CarGo wins the MVP it will render the award pointless.

His stats are so inflated by Coors, it's a joke. Put him at sea level and he's Drew Stubbs.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Here we go again. 2 on, none out.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Janish landed right on that, that can't feel good

Speaking of, how long is OCab out for now? I assume day-to-day but I hadn't heard.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Speaking of, how long is OCab out for now? I assume day-to-day but I hadn't heard.

Day off I assume. He played yesterday

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:40 PM
Cards Lose 8-1. The night is not a total loss.

alloverjr
09-08-2010, 11:40 PM
Day off I assume. He played yesterday

Welsh said he re-injured his side.


This kinda makes Harang's outing on Monday look TOR'ish.

VR
09-08-2010, 11:41 PM
Cowboy saying the Reds pitchers' need to keep these guys off the plate.

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 11:42 PM
Cards lose.

Every day that goes by in which the lead doesn't decrease is a good day, especially when we are playing on the road in Colorado.

4 out our last 23 games against winning teams.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:42 PM
Maloney looking like a nice LOOGY if he never gets the chance to start

PuffyPig
09-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Cowboy saying the Reds pitchers' need to keep these guys off the plate.

I think he means "off the bases".

We should try that.

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Phillies and Braves win. Dbacks over SF 2-1.

Wild card hopes dwindling for Cards.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Nice play from Mr. Heisey

oneupper
09-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Time to work on the Pythag. :)

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Nice play from Mr. Heisey

Last time he made a good play & lead off the next inning, I think he hit a HR

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:45 PM
Maloney gets some help from Hi-C and works out of it. Nice bounce back.

Come on offense, a touchdown and two-point conversion and we're right back in this thing!

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Phillies and Braves win. Dbacks over SF 2-1.

Wild card hopes dwindling for Cards.They're about further back in the WC than they are in The Central I would imagine.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:47 PM
Time to work on the Pythag. :)

Pythagoras can kiss my hiney. I just want visits from Mr. W at this point. The wonderful wink dude

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:47 PM
How will they strand him this time?

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:47 PM
H-ice, H-ice, baby.

VR
09-08-2010, 11:48 PM
Cards were ridden w/ malaise in 2006. Getting beat all over the place....losing 10 of their final 14 games.

Just get to October.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:49 PM
How will they strand him this time?

They're gonna strand him right into the dugout

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:49 PM
They're gonna strand him right into the dugoutLet's hope so. :cool:

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:49 PM
Cards were ridden w/ malaise in 2006. Getting beat all over the place....losing 10 of their final 14 games.

Just get to October.

Yeah, but those 2006 Cardinals had something we don't have.


Jeff Suppan

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:49 PM
They're gonna strand him right into the dugout

...after the third out is recorded.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:50 PM
...after the third out is recorded.

Doubting Brutus

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Hey! 9-2. Kudos, Tornon. You have bested me, good sir.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Hoo boy. I just saw me a miracle happen.

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Yeah, but those 2006 Cardinals had something we don't have.


Jeff Suppan:D

They also happened to luck into Jeff Weaver pitching the streak of his life. He wasn't even any good after going over to them in the regular season that year, but he became Cy Young in the postseason.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
Miggy Mouse!

The Operator
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
I like that Valaika will be hitting in Phillips' stead.

Brutus
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
I like that Valaika will be hitting in Phillips' stead.

So does the infield turf.

Tornon
09-08-2010, 11:53 PM
I like that Valaika will be hitting in Phillips' stead.

Agree. And I like that Franky is now hitting 4th