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fearofpopvol1
09-09-2010, 07:13 PM
After watching this entire Colorado series, they don't look like they want to win.

I mean really, you let a guy steal home to take the lead?

There were so many blunders during this series...Phillips, Votto, Rolen...not the guys you expect it from. Sure, nobody is perfect and mistakes are inevitable, but this is September. This is where you have to make it count. And the Reds really blew a big game today that they should have won. The Reds cannot continue to count on the Cards losing. It's not a good strategy.

1-6 on the roadtrip and a 5 game losing streak. First 5-game losing streak for CIN since Apr. 14-18, and we all know how the month of April was for the Reds.

membengal
09-09-2010, 07:16 PM
After watching this entire Colorado series, they don't look like they want to win.

I mean really, you let a guy steal home to take the lead?

There were so many blunders during this series...Phillips, Votto, Rolen...not the guys you expect it from. Sure, nobody is perfect and mistakes are inevitable, but this is September. This is where you have to make it count. And the Reds really blew a big game today that they should have won. The Reds cannot continue to count on the Cards losing. It's not a good strategy.

1-6 on the roadtrip and a 5 game losing streak. First 5-game losing streak for CIN since Apr. 14-18, and we all know how the month of April was for the Reds.

Well, it was actually a winning one for the team, for what it's worth.

I bet they bounce back from this trip in fine fashion. They have all year when challenged. And playing the Pirates should be of some help in that task.

Captain Hook
09-09-2010, 07:20 PM
Well, it was actually a winning one for the team, for what it's worth.

I bet they bounce back from this trip in fine fashion. They have all year when challenged. And playing the Pirates should be of some help in that task.

It seems like the Pirates are always there for the Reds when they need them the most.:luvu:

Brutus
09-09-2010, 07:20 PM
The problems I see:

1. The rotation is just not good enough (yet) to shut good teams down. I think there's some things to be excited about going forward, but this year it's not there yet.

2. Oh where have you gone, Jay DiMaggio, our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you. Woah-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh. Bruce's absence has been a killer not only because it's the extra pop that Scott Rolen hasn't been giving lately, but it's the automatic out (and often times two) that Chris Heisey hath provided.

3. You can only come from behind so many times. The Reds have trailed early in games so often this year, the odds are catching up with them that they just don't manage to overcome that often enough. Add to the fact that teams with good bullpens (contenders) don't easily give up those leads, and you have a problem that has plagued them.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:25 PM
Walt Jocketty standing pat at the trade deadline is shaping up to be a bad decision. The Reds needed another starter and Walt failed to deliver.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 07:27 PM
Walt Jocketty standing pat at the trade deadline is shaping up to be a bad decision. The Reds needed another starter and Walt failed to deliver.

He tried best he could for Cliff Lee. Dan Haren and Roy Oswalt were not going to happen.

I don't know what else he could have done. I agree that another starter would have been nice, but you can't just snap your fingers and make one appear.

fisch11
09-09-2010, 07:27 PM
They lost two 1 run games and got pounded in the other two against a team that is hot and the entire lineup is hitting at the same time. Not to mention they have some good starters and it was in their house. Hardly anything to panic over in my opinion. It was much like the Philadelphia series that the Reds could have easily won 2 or 3 games in. And if you recall, they responded quite nicely after that series. Step back from the ledge!

edabbs44
09-09-2010, 07:28 PM
Walt Jocketty standing pat at the trade deadline is shaping up to be a bad decision. The Reds needed another starter and Walt failed to deliver.

Please.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:29 PM
He tried best he could for Cliff Lee. Dan Haren and Roy Oswalt were not going to happen.

I don't know what else he could have done. I agree that another starter would have been nice, but you can't just snap your fingers and make one appear.

There were other options besides Lee and Oswalt, namely Ted Lilly who has been great since being traded (45.1 IP, 8 BB/43 K, 3.18 ERA).

edabbs44
09-09-2010, 07:30 PM
Games in Colorado don't kill me. If they spit the bit this weekend, I'll get worried.

Always Red
09-09-2010, 07:31 PM
Walt Jocketty standing pat at the trade deadline is shaping up to be a bad decision. The Reds needed another starter and Walt failed to deliver.

Just one week ago, everyone here was singing a different tune.

Lifeless? no, to me they look tight. They haven't been here before, and have a little bit of the deer in the headlights look.

I think they'll bounce back. And I'm glad the Rockies are in the NL West!

Cedric
09-09-2010, 07:31 PM
I expected a 2-5 trip. I'm not overly concerned with the way it played out.

This team doesn't have the depth to handle losing Bruce and Volquez. Those two need to become two of our best players again when healthy.

Tom Servo
09-09-2010, 07:31 PM
Sweeping the Pirates will solve everything.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 07:32 PM
There were other options besides Lee and Oswalt, namely Ted Lilly who has been great since being traded (45.1 IP, 8 BB/43 K, 3.18 ERA).

They already have 2-3 Ted Lillys in their rotation. He is not an ugprade.

Cedric
09-09-2010, 07:34 PM
They already have 2-3 Ted Lillys in their rotation. He is not an ugprade.

I would do anything for Lilly in this rotation. If Volquez doesn't get back he would easily be the best starter in this rotation.

135 hits in 162 innings and basically a 1 whip.

edabbs44
09-09-2010, 07:34 PM
There were other options besides Lee and Oswalt, namely Ted Lilly who has been great since being traded (45.1 IP, 8 BB/43 K, 3.18 ERA).

Lilly has faced stiff competition in a pitchers park. Games in GABP might be different. And he got slaughtered in Coors.

hebroncougar
09-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Walt Jocketty standing pat at the trade deadline is shaping up to be a bad decision. The Reds needed another starter and Walt failed to deliver.

Darn straight it was. They were .5 game up at that point, now they're only 5.5 up. What the heck are you talking about?

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Sweeping the Pirates will solve everything.

The Reds have to sweep the Pirates this weekend but I'm not holding my breath. The Reds are only 8-5 against the Pirates this season, that's not all that special considering the Pirates record.

Cedric
09-09-2010, 07:36 PM
The Reds have to sweep the Pirates this weekend but I'm not holding my breath. The Reds are only 8-5 against the Pirates this season, that's not all that special considering the Pirates record.

Homer and Cueto seem to own the Pirates.

Boss-Hog
09-09-2010, 07:36 PM
Darn straight it was. They were .5 game up at that point, now they're only 5.5 up. What the heck are you talking about?
:laugh:

Phhhl
09-09-2010, 07:36 PM
All that matters is the standings. The reason people were so excited about building a large lead before this road trip is because so many of us knew what just happened was a real possibility. As far as I am concerned, I am grateful they are going to come back home with at least a 5 game lead. I don't care what just happened, just about what lies ahead.

fearofpopvol1
09-09-2010, 07:38 PM
Lilly has faced stiff competition in a pitchers park. Games in GABP might be different. And he got slaughtered in Coors.

He pitched most of the year in Wrigley, which has given up plenty of homers this year and he did just fine.

Lilly would absolutely be an upgrade to this rotation. At worst, he would be the 3rd best starter on this staff. Maybe even 2nd or 1st.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:38 PM
Darn straight it was. They were .5 game up at that point, now they're only 5.5 up. What the heck are you talking about?

I'm talking about the Reds rotation. Do you feel good about entering the playoffs with this rotation? I don't. The Reds needed to acquire a starter and failed to do so.

hebroncougar
09-09-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm talking about the Reds rotation. Do you feel good about entering the playoffs with this rotation? I don't. The Reds needed to acquire a starter and failed to do so.

You can't have it all. They've got the best offense in the league. I'll go Wood, Arroyo, and Cueto, and take my chances with the Reds offense when healthy. The only team that scares me is Colorado in Colorado. The rest of the league, bring it on.

membengal
09-09-2010, 07:40 PM
The Reds have to sweep the Pirates this weekend but I'm not holding my breath. The Reds are only 8-5 against the Pirates this season, that's not all that special considering the Pirates record.

HAVE to, obm?

Really?

C'mon friend, slow your roll...

Boss-Hog
09-09-2010, 07:41 PM
Seriously, all of us are extremely disappointed with the way this road trip went, but the sky really is not falling. This team has rebounded from tough spots every time they've encountered one this year and I have no doubt they will do so again this time.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:42 PM
HAVE to, obm?

Really?

C'mon friend, slow your roll...

The Reds are coming off a 1-6 roadtrip, and the Pirates are 14-53 on the road. IMO, anything less than a sweep would be a disappointment, at least to me.

Phhhl
09-09-2010, 07:43 PM
I'm still laying a lot of money down on playoff tickets this weekend...

Brutus
09-09-2010, 07:43 PM
I would do anything for Lilly in this rotation. If Volquez doesn't get back he would easily be the best starter in this rotation.

135 hits in 162 innings and basically a 1 whip.

Let's play a game.

Pitcher A

7.32 K/9
2.05 BB/9
1.50 HR/9
4.38 FIP
4.24 xFIP

Pitcher B

6.58 K/9
2.87 BB/9
1.27 HR/9
4.54 FIP
4.53 xFIP

Pitcher C

6.87 K/9
2.70 BB/9
0.74 HR/9
3.62 FIP
4.47 xFIP

Pitcher D

6.52 K/9
2.74 BB/9
0.93 HR/9
4.06 FIP
4.35 xFIP

Pitcher E

5.92 K/9
3.19 BB/9
1.24 HR/9
4.70 FIP
4.34 xFIP

Pitcher F

7.00 K/9
3.11 BB/9
0.89 HR/9
3.98 FIP
4.30 xFIP

Pitcher G

4.74 K/9
2.72 BB/9
1.17 HR/9
4.75 FIP
4.81 xFIP

Like I said... the Reds have a bunch of Ted Lillys (who is included in this group)

edabbs44
09-09-2010, 07:44 PM
Seriously, all of us are extremely disappointed with the way this road trip went, but the sky really is not falling. This team has rebounded from tough spots every time they've encountered one this year and I have no doubt they will do so again this time.

Their season was shot after the Pitt sweep, the Atlanta debacle and the Philly fiasco. Now comes the sweet spot of the sked. If they can't close this out with these opponents then they weren't meant to go to the playoffs.

edabbs44
09-09-2010, 07:45 PM
The Reds are coming off a 1-6 roadtrip, and the Pirates are 14-53 on the road. IMO, anything less than a sweep would be a disappointment, at least to me.

Dissapointment or have to? There is a difference.

membengal
09-09-2010, 07:45 PM
The Reds are coming off a 1-6 roadtrip, and the Pirates are 14-53 on the road. IMO, anything less than a sweep would be a disappointment, at least to me.

Personally disappointing is a very different standard from HAVE to, obm. Again, a little perspective is in order.

Ever check out the swoon the 1990 team went into in August of that year? Dropped 11 straight if I remember correctly.

In a long season, stuff tends to happen, good and bad.

membengal
09-09-2010, 07:46 PM
Seriously, all of us are extremely disappointed with the way this road trip went, but the sky really is not falling. This team has rebounded from tough spots every time they've encountered one this year and I have no doubt they will do so again this time.

Spot on.

Joseph
09-09-2010, 07:47 PM
I'm talking about the Reds rotation. Do you feel good about entering the playoffs with this rotation? I don't. The Reds needed to acquire a starter and failed to do so.

I'll be honest, no.

HOWEVER.....

I look at this team on paper and I don't know how we are in first place, yet we are. Thats fun as fun can be to me. A team just defying the odds and playing damn good baseball. I don't feel good about our left fielder, I don't feel good about our center fielder, I don't feel good about our right fielder, I don't feel good about our rotation, and I don't feel good about our closer.

What I do feel good about is first place. That makes a lot of my other worries go away.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:47 PM
I like Dusty Baker and think he's done a pretty good job this season, but anyone else agree that he mismanaged that 7th inning today? I was stunned when he left Ondursek in to bat for himself in the 7th inning. I thought he should have PH for Ondrusek and brought Chapman in to pitch the 7th inning.

Phhhl
09-09-2010, 07:50 PM
I like Dusty Baker and think he's done a pretty good job this season, but anyone else agree that he mismanaged that 7th inning today? I was stunned when he left Ondursek in to bat for himself in the 7th inning. I thought he should have PH for Ondrusek and brought Chapman in to pitch the 7th inning.


For whatever reason, Ondrusek does seem to struggle whenever asked to go more than one inning.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 07:54 PM
Look, I'm thrilled to death with the Reds success this season. I predicted they would win 87 games this season, but I'm always optimistic in spring training. I don't think any of us honestly expected them to reach the playoffs this season. So, yeah, I'm excited the Reds are 18 games above .500 and have a 5.5 game lead in the division. However, just because we didn't expect them to contend this season doesn't mean we can't adjust our expectations. They've made it this far, anything less than a playoff appearance would be a serious kick in the gut to me. And if/when they make the playoffs, I don't want to just settle for a three and out appearance. At this point, I've raised my expectations for this team.

mdccclxix
09-09-2010, 07:54 PM
I was encouraged today when I turned on the game and it was 5-0. I thought, "alright, they're angry, let's tack on 5 more." Not so. They've been roundly defeated and utterly embarrased by good teams, where's the focus?

pedro
09-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Teams have funks. It happens.

kbrake
09-09-2010, 09:17 PM
I don't get the lack of focus or that they look lifeless. Cabrera, Phillips, Bruce, Nix, and Edmonds are all banged up, combine that with the fact that the Rockies kill it at Coors and I don't see a big deal. They don't HAVE to sweep the Pirates this weekend it would be nice but HAVE to is absurd.

The pitching probably isn't good enough to do much an October but oh well no one expected to be here. I'd say this team is at least a year ahead of schedule for everyone. And once the playoffs start I know one thing, they have a better chance to get hot and go on a run then they did last season.

reds44
09-09-2010, 09:21 PM
Somehow, I think they will be fine.

NJReds
09-09-2010, 09:42 PM
I remember sitting in Candlestick Park in late July 1990 when Scott Garrelts pitched an 8-2/3 no-hit innings against the Reds (O'Neill broke it up) to cap a 4-game sweep. I'm not sure, but that might have been part of a 7 or 8 game losing streak when I was absolutely positive that team was dead.

I'm not saying that this team is the 1990 team or that it will win a playoff series, much less the World Series. But I'm not bailing on them because of a sweep in Colorado.

However, if Bruce doesn't come back soon, that's going to be a huge problem down the stretch. He was carrying this team before the injury and they really need his bat and glove in the lineup.

wally post
09-09-2010, 09:44 PM
I think no matter what happens, we've all received more success than we anticipated. There is only one thing that keeps showing up in my mind about this team though and it is that this team doesn't show the baseball savvy that the great Reds teams of the past have always shown. Today, the Rockies looked like the '76 Reds. You never know though... maybe this is THE year, though it doesn't look like it at this moment for sure.

membengal
09-09-2010, 09:58 PM
I remember sitting in Candlestick Park in late July 1990 when Scott Garrelts pitched an 8-2/3 no-hit innings against the Reds (O'Neill broke it up) to cap a 4-game sweep. I'm not sure, but that might have been part of a 7 or 8 game losing streak when I was absolutely positive that team was dead.

I'm not saying that this team is the 1990 team or that it will win a playoff series, much less the World Series. But I'm not bailing on them because of a sweep in Colorado.

However, if Bruce doesn't come back soon, that's going to be a huge problem down the stretch. He was carrying this team before the injury and they really need his bat and glove in the lineup.

Just went and looked it up, because I said I thought I remembered an 11-game losing streak for Cincy in 1990, but your recall is better. The 1990 Reds suffered an 8-game skid at the end of July. I am guessing 1990 Redszone lost their minds over the decline of Jack Armstrong after his strong first half and that the Reds had not built on their 13-0 start to the season...

Also, the 1961 Reds that lost in the World Series dropped eight straight in late April.

WMR
09-09-2010, 10:23 PM
Need our guys to get well ASAP, esp. JB.

mth123
09-09-2010, 10:28 PM
Just one week ago, everyone here was singing a different tune.

Lifeless? no, to me they look tight. They haven't been here before, and have a little bit of the deer in the headlights look.

I think they'll bounce back. And I'm glad the Rockies are in the NL West!

Not everyone.

37red
09-10-2010, 03:52 PM
They do seem to be tight, playing hard but not keeping thier eye on the ball. This is where Rolen comes in. He's delivering confidence as these young players look down the bench at him, watch him play like no one else. Either way it goes, in the end, they'll all gain a new view when they lean on that rail. And as they win a game or two here, their confusion will relax. I don't want their muscles to relax, and I do want them to keep the intensity of any play off game, these are playoff games!!