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View Full Version : Several Reds' notes from Jayson Stark



Brutus
09-09-2010, 08:08 PM
Pretty informative Rumblings & Grumblings from him today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings1000909

Some highlights:

* There's talk of adding one additional wild-card team in each league to have a wild card round of either 1-game or 3-games, with the winner playing the team with the best record in the first round

* If Dusty Baker doesn't accept the extension, there's a real possibility of Tony LaRussa coming to Cincinnati (ugh)

* Jayson Werth is almost assured of not being back in Philadelphia (you listening Walt?)

* More notes on Aroldis, including a quote from one scout saying he believes Chapman will wind up being the Reds' top-end closer for the future instead of a starter.

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2010, 08:10 PM
No thanks on adding another wildcard team. One is enough, IMO. Let's not turn this into the NBA where half the teams make the playoffs. Eight playoff spots for 30 teams is perfect, IMO.

No thanks to LaRussa. He's the last guy I want managing this team.

Jayson Werth? Yes, please, assuming the price isn't outrageous. But if it comes down to an ace or Werth, get me the ace.

Another no thanks on keeping Chapman in the bullpen. He is way too talented to waste in the bullpen. The guy has Cy Young potential as a starter, I don't want to waste that in the bullpen.

HokieRed
09-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Agree that one wildcard's enough. I'd like to see Dusty return but I'll be happy with Tony any time.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 08:12 PM
No thanks on adding another wildcard team. One is enough, IMO. Let's not turn this into the NBA where half the teams make the playoffs. Eight playoff spots for 30 teams is perfect, IMO.

Actually his explanation makes perfect sense. By adding a single extra wild-card, and making it a 1-game playoff of sorts, you put MUCH more emphasis on the regular season and winning the division.

The Yankees-Rays race would be more exciting if the loser wound up having to face the Red Sox or White Sox in a 1-game playoff.

kbrake
09-09-2010, 08:21 PM
No thanks on TLR want no part of that here.

RedsManRick
09-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Werth is going to get Jason Bay money. He'll probably be worth it for a few years before his defense falls off. I'd definitely love to have him in LF, but I don't see it happening.

As for LaRussa, no thank you.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Werth is going to get Jason Bay money. He'll probably be worth it for a few years before his defense falls off. I'd definitely love to have him in LF, but I don't see it happening.

As for LaRussa, no thank you.

I don't think he'll get that big of a contract, to be honest. I could see him getting 4 years, definitely, but not $66 million. Not with the market as it is now.

I honestly think 4 for $44 mil... somewhere in that park.

blumj
09-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Actually his explanation makes perfect sense. By adding a single extra wild-card, and making it a 1-game playoff of sorts, you put MUCH more emphasis on the regular season and winning the division.

The Yankees-Rays race would be more exciting if the loser wound up having to face the Red Sox or White Sox in a 1-game playoff.
So, the Yankees win 101 games and the Rays win 99, playing in what is obviously the toughest division in MLB, and the Rays potentially are out of playoffs after one game? Seems to go against the main purpose of the WC, so you get a better chance to get the best teams into the playoffs.

Ghosts of 1990
09-09-2010, 10:45 PM
Don't want TLR, I'd be heartbroken if Dusty doesn't accept. Don't want Werth. He's not that young, he's going to be a poor man's Jason Bay somewhere for too much money, we can find a better fit; and he's not a good guy in the clubhouse. And I figured Aroldis or Bailey would be groomed to be the heir aparent for Coco.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 10:46 PM
So, the Yankees win 101 games and the Rays win 99, playing in what is obviously the toughest division in MLB, and the Rays potentially are out of playoffs after one game? Seems to go against the main purpose of the WC, so you get a better chance to get the best teams into the playoffs.

I know it's not perfect, but at this point what are these teams playing for? It would be nice to put back some meaning in winning the division. By giving back additional incentive to winning the division, it at least puts the emphasis on some more of these games in September.

Brutus
09-09-2010, 10:48 PM
Don't want TLR, I'd be heartbroken if Dusty doesn't accept. Don't want Werth. He's not that young, he's going to be a poor man's Jason Bay somewhere for too much money, we can find a better fit; and he's not a good guy in the clubhouse. And I figured Aroldis or Bailey would be groomed to be the heir aparent for Coco.

On what basis is he not a good guy in the clubhouse?

In fairness to Werth, RE: the Bay comparison, unlike Bay, Werth is actually regarded as a good defensive player so he could make up for a possible loss in offensive production.

The Operator
09-09-2010, 10:51 PM
If Larussa comes to Cincinnati I'll die inside. Please accept the extension, Dusty.

BCubb2003
09-09-2010, 10:59 PM
It would be quite a sight to see Reds fans holding up sign pleading for Dusty to stay.

Will M
09-09-2010, 11:02 PM
No thanks on adding another wildcard team. One is enough, IMO. Let's not turn this into the NBA where half the teams make the playoffs. Eight playoff spots for 30 teams is perfect, IMO.

No thanks to LaRussa. He's the last guy I want managing this team.

Jayson Werth? Yes, please, assuming the price isn't outrageous. But if it comes down to an ace or Werth, get me the ace.

Another no thanks on keeping Chapman in the bullpen. He is way too talented to waste in the bullpen. The guy has Cy Young potential as a starter, I don't want to waste that in the bullpen.

if the Reds could sign Werth this offseason that would be a huge boost to the offense. A 3-4 punch of Votto-Werth surrounded by guys like Phillips, Bruce & Rolen is a nice offense.

I too would love to add a TOR starter. However, thats a tougher find than a power hitting left fielder. plus its possible one can emerge from within. i feel Cueto's ceiling is likely as a #2. maybe Volquez regains his pre injury form. or Chapman gets control of a 3rd pitch.
Volquez-Chapman-Cueto-Wood-Leake-Bailey has some serious potential. plus the team can bring back Arroyo as a solid #3 guy.
there are certainly some in house guys with TOR potential but i don't see an in house guy that can OPS 900 in left next year.

HeatherC1212
09-09-2010, 11:37 PM
Forget about the fans for a minute. If TLR is seriously in the discussion to replace Dusty as manager (if Dusty doesn't stay and personally, I think he does stay), we could possibly see the first ever all out revolt from an entire baseball team (and I'm only half kidding). :eek:

Griffey012
09-10-2010, 12:12 AM
Forget about the fans for a minute. If TLR is seriously in the discussion to replace Dusty as manager (if Dusty doesn't stay and personally, I think he does stay), we could possibly see the first ever all out revolt from an entire baseball team (and I'm only half kidding). :eek:

Dusty now has a great bargaining ploy if the rumors are true. "But Walt, the entire team and city of Cincinnati hate TLR, go ahead and bump that 3.5 up to 4 mil and we will talk. Or else you can tick off an entire team and city."

mdccclxix
09-10-2010, 01:23 AM
I don't really consider Werth a complete player, as he's kind of a bonehead. I'm not sure he'd be worth the money as he will decline near the end of the next deal he signs. I could see a franchise like Seattle, Anaheim, or Detroit paying him quite a bit more than we could or would, as they would have more money to risk.

KronoRed
09-10-2010, 01:48 AM
Dusty now has a great bargaining ploy if the rumors are true. "But Walt, the entire team and city of Cincinnati hate TLR, go ahead and bump that 3.5 up to 4 mil and we will talk. Or else you can tick off an entire team and city."

Big Bob likes him though, that trumps all, besides, Walt can play hardball too and bring up any number of names.

Personally I won't be upset if Dusty ditches us or if Tony lands in Cincy, but they won't be the only two names out there.

The Operator
09-10-2010, 02:13 AM
I just can't fathom how anyone in the Reds brass could think it's a good idea to bring in Larussa, ever.

There's the Rolen issue. Phillips is here. Cueto is on this team. And there's also the fact that Larussa is absolutely terrible with young players. It would be one epically hostile clubhouse environment. He wouldn't lose this team, he would never have them to start with. It would quite possibly undo all the positives that were built this year. /rant

NDRed
09-10-2010, 09:16 AM
OK.. No way Jayson Stark knows what he is talking about. Phillips and LaRussa I have trouble believing would be entertained...LaRussa and Rolen no way. Besides what did LaRussa do this year that makes him an attractive candidate for anyone?

MattyHo4Life
09-10-2010, 09:45 AM
Rolen and LaRussa "settled their issues" earlier in the season.

HokieRed
09-10-2010, 09:51 AM
Bringing in TLR might have to do with his .535 winning percentage over 32 years.

membengal
09-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Is he brining his laissez-faire approach to his players' steroid and PED use with him?

REDREAD
09-10-2010, 10:05 AM
I don't really consider Werth a complete player, as he's kind of a bonehead. I'm not sure he'd be worth the money as he will decline near the end of the next deal he signs. I could see a franchise like Seattle, Anaheim, or Detroit paying him quite a bit more than we could or would, as they would have more money to risk.

My thought is that if Philly can't resign him, he's asking for the moon.
Philly is a smart franchise, and I'm sure they would've retained him if he was asking for a reasonable amount of money.. Maybe though, it's like a Dunn situation... Dunn asked for a lot of money to resign with the Reds, but was forced to take less in the free agent market.

It is sure nice to dream though (not a put down on anyone, it would be nice to somehow get Werth here)

Brutus
09-10-2010, 03:16 PM
OK.. No way Jayson Stark knows what he is talking about. Phillips and LaRussa I have trouble believing would be entertained...LaRussa and Rolen no way. Besides what did LaRussa do this year that makes him an attractive candidate for anyone?

Why doesn't he know what he's talking about. Do you really think Castellini and Jocketty are worrying too much about how he gets along with Phillips? They both are close with LaRussa. I don't like the idea as most here don't... but actually I'm afraid Stark is right on the money when he says LaRussa would wind up being their top target if Dusty leaves.

The good news is that I think the Reds want Dusty to stay. Hopefully he does and all this is a moot point.

KronoRed
09-10-2010, 04:11 PM
Bringing in TLR might have to do with his .535 winning percentage over 32 years.

Impossible. :D

How about this though in regards to Phillips, maybe the Reds plan to move him elsewhere this off season.

NDRed
09-10-2010, 06:24 PM
Bringing in TLR might have to do with his .535 winning percentage over 32 years.

I know that should trump this year but I don't know if it is always the case. The Cards collapsed this year, he has buried a good player in the doghouse, and his constant complaining iss tartingto be noticed as well.

HokieRed
09-10-2010, 06:27 PM
I know that should trump this year but I don't know if it is always the case. The Cards collapsed this year, he has buried a good player in the doghouse, and his constant complaining iss tartingto be noticed as well.

I don't consider the Cards collapsed. In fact, I think there's nothing so likely to reunite the Cards as the opportunity, now very clear, that they can still win this division.

Matt700wlw
09-10-2010, 06:28 PM
LaRussa would give me a headache. Now his pregame show with Marty would be worth listening to.... :)

gm
09-11-2010, 11:09 PM
It would be quite a sight to see Reds fans holding up sign pleading for Dusty to stay.

I was just thinking the same thing. What a difference a year makes. After all the flak that Johnny B caught around here for 3+ years, now Red's fans would crawl over broken glass on their knees if that would keep Dusty in and TLR out

Irony. Gotta love it

Tony Cloninger
09-12-2010, 10:15 AM
I don't consider the Cards collapsed. In fact, I think there's nothing so likely to reunite the Cards as the opportunity, now very clear, that they can still win this division.

Are you a Reds fan? Beacuse wanting that guy as a Reds manager seems awfully suspicious to me. :D

I think this guys time has come and now is going and gone.

In regards to the extra WC.....let the extra WC team (which I do not agree with at all)....play the team with the worst record...in a 1 game playoff or 3. Do not punish a team that wins the WC while having the 2nd best record in the league.

oneupper
09-12-2010, 10:42 AM
The Yankee-Red Sox supporters are looking for a system that gives them a better shot of running multiple consecutive championships like they do in other sports and in the 50s (Yankees).

But baseball is more random than other sports and they hate that WC card teams have a decent shot of becoming champions.

If they want to improve baseball, start by standardizing the rules of the game itself. Playing with different rules is more ridiculous than any playoff set-up.

HokieRed
09-12-2010, 12:40 PM
Are you a Reds fan? Beacuse wanting that guy as a Reds manager seems awfully suspicious to me. :D

I think this guys time has come and now is going and gone.

In regards to the extra WC.....let the extra WC team (which I do not agree with at all)....play the team with the worst record...in a 1 game playoff or 3. Do not punish a team that wins the WC while having the 2nd best record in the league.

Why would you think I'm not a Reds fan? I've been a Reds fan for over fifty years. I want to see them win every game. To that end, I want the best at every position. I've said I'd rather Dusty came back but if not, why wouldn't you want a manager who's been successful for 32 years? If there are conflicts of personalities with players, that's something that can be gotten over. LaRussa is a successful manager. End of story. He's shown the ability to win. I'd assume that's what we want.

HokieRed
09-12-2010, 04:01 PM
Maybe TLR wouldn't use Cordero. If so, bring him in.