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GIDP
09-14-2010, 12:12 PM
5 of 6 monthly OPS totals in no particular order to spice it up a little.
.620
.647
.700
.674
.704

texasdave
09-14-2010, 12:14 PM
5 of 6 monthly OPS totals in no particular order to spice it up a little.
.620
.647
.700
.674
.704

I just checked this particular player's splits out so I will pass.

likemenow
09-14-2010, 12:15 PM
gotta be the one month wonder johnny gomes

thorn
09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
gotta be the one month wonder johnny gomes


Gomes had much better months than that, highest OPS for any month of .704?

Most likely OCab

GIDP
09-14-2010, 12:19 PM
Pretty amazing how they have batted him 4th, 5th, and 6th the majority of the year while Stubbs, Bruce, Janish, Heisey and Hanigan have all been basically pushed to 6th or lower. Not saying they all should bat higher or what ever, but you could make a case that Gomes is the weakest bat of all 5 of them and basically has only hit behind Bruce a handful of times this year.

Shows how Dusty Baker really struggles with day to day managing.

GIDP
09-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Gomes had much better months than that, highest OPS for any month of .704?

Most likely OCab

Its Gomes. I left out his 1 good month of May in which he OPSed 1.056

thorn
09-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Its Gomes. I left out his 1 good month of May in which he OPSed 1.056

Yep, I see that now.

likemenow
09-14-2010, 12:23 PM
i like dusty but his playing of gomes countinues to make me sick. he is a number 7 hitter on any other playoff team and thats exactly what he should be on this team. no lineup card should have gomes in front of bruce

GIDP
09-14-2010, 12:29 PM
It shows that if you have a huge hot streak Dusty will only see that stretch instead of your struggles. If you are consistent, like Bruce with an OPS of .825 every month other than July, you will fall out of favor with Dusty.

Dusty trust his eyes way too much.

GIDP
09-14-2010, 12:32 PM
Dusty falls in love with streaky players like Phillips, Cabrera and Gomes. He likes to say things like "guys are due". Similar reason Laynce Nix was on the team coming out of spring. Dusty remembers Nix having a hot streak and not noticing that he really didnt have all that good of a year last year.

New York Red
09-14-2010, 12:58 PM
When filling out the lineup card, it seems Dusty ignores the negative (players slumping at the plate and/or career averages), and hangs on to the positive forever (previous hot streaks/hot months, etc). I was shocked when I saw Gomes batting ahead of Bruce in the lineup last night, but I assumed Dusty just wanted to go left, right, left in the 3-4-5 spots. Or maybe Dusty thinks Gomes is due to repeat his May performance at some point? No other reason to put Gomes ahead of a red-hot Bruce. Ever.

RedsFanInBama
09-14-2010, 01:35 PM
I knew before I opened the thread it was either Gomes or Cabrera.

Kingspoint
09-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Thus, the acquisition of Willie Bloomquist.

757690
09-14-2010, 01:53 PM
But Gomes makes up for it with steller defense... oh wait, nevermind.

I never wanted Gomes in LF from day one this season, but to be honest, I just don't see any better alternative on the roster.

Dickerson was OPS'ing under .600 when he got hurt for the umpteenth time
Heisey has OPS'ed .613 as as starter
Nix can't hit lefties, although he's been pretty good in small numbers this year.
Balentien struggled in the minors all season until the very end.
I was hoping Edmonds would get some starts in LF, but he got hurt.

Kingspoint
09-14-2010, 02:27 PM
Gomes leads the team with a .346/.425/.630/1.055 line w/ RISP in 160 plate appearances.

Gomes is the perfect player to be batting 5th or 6th. If he gets up in the 1st inning that means that men are on base.
In the first inning his line is .325/.378/.675/1.053 .

If the team makes too many outs in the first inning before he gets up, then he's usually coming up to bat in the 2nd inning with nobody on base.
His line in the second inning is .197/.240/.268/.508 .

During the heart of the game, Gomes is simply fantastic.
His line in the third inning is .355/.400/.581/.981 .
His line in the fourth inning is .278/.406/.519/.924 .
His line in the fifth inning is .282/.404/.487/.891 .

This is where Gomes starts getting into trouble. I suppose it's because of a number of factors...he lacks plate discipline, he's always swinging for the fence later in the game, he's facing Right-Handed Relievers. Whatever it is, Jonny Gomes needs to be pinch-hit for once the 7th Inning arrives (that would also be best for the team defensively), or as soon as Relievers start taking over the game (often in the 6th inning).

Because the 6th inning is a mixed bag of Relievers and Starters, Gomes has mixed results. He's got a good Average, very good OBP, but has very poor power with only 1 HR in 54 PA's.
His line in the sixth inning is .296/.371/.389/.760 .

But, like I said, it gets really ugly from here. The team would be better off sending up any number of pitchers to hit instead of sending up Gomes. He simply shouldn't be in the ballgame after the 6th inning for any reason whatsoever. He's the biggest problem on the team at this point. It's amazing the REDS have been able to win so many games late in spite of him.

His line in the seventh inning.226 .268 .415 .683
His line in the eighth inning.206 .239 .286 .525
His line in the ninth inning.270 .308 .459 .767 (not so bad here)
His line in extra innings .143 .250 .143 .393

Suppose he doesn't play and comes to bat late as a pinch-hitter, which is usually from the 7th inning on?
His line as a pinch-hitter is .286/.333/.357/.690. (A good Average, which is what you want as a pinch-hitter.)

Where he is an absolute STUD, is in an area where the team is considered to be extremely weak. At least according to Sundeck members, the REDS are probably the worst in the history of baseball at this...........Plate Appearances with a runner on third and less than two outs.

Gomes STUDLY line w/ runners on 3rd and < 2 outs is .500/.389/.962/1.350 . That's in 36 plate appearances.


So, as you can see, Gomes is clearly better than anyone on the team in a couple of situations, (RISP; and, Runner on 3rd and < 2 outs), which are the most important situations that I can think of, and definitely in the Top-3 or Top-4 in batting in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Innings when a team is trying to take out the other team's Starter, give their own Starter runs to work with, and build momentum and a lead in order to turn a game over to our bullpen for closing out (of which the REDS are 2nd in the National League in Save percentage at 76%, where they had been all year, as recently as late August when I last looked......correction, the REDS have plummeted to 7th at 69% as they've (not just Cordero) been a disaster lately).

I'm sure that part of the blowing of Games has been Gomes, as he's by far the worst defender on the field late in games and the worst batter at the plate late in games. That double-whammy makes it pretty clear that he has no business seeing the diamond after the 6th inning.

As far as the future of Gomes, I think he could be a valuable 4th Outfielder. I'd rather develop Heisey in Left Field and get Heisey 600 Plate Appearances. Gomes as a bench player might be OK. He's clutch w/ RISP, or at getting guys in from 3rd and less than 2 outs (9 Sac Flies this year....that's about 5 years worth for Adam Dunn). If Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce go down, he's a guy you can start and get production out of as a Starter, and then pinch-hit for him late.

defender
09-14-2010, 02:57 PM
Nice post Kingspoint. I think the initial plan, was that Gomes and Bruce would flip flop 5th/6th depending on the starter. Up until Bruce's recent hot streak, he had not been good with runners on base. Not only has Gomes had good numbers with runners on base, as Kingspoint has shown, he has done very well in the first inning.

GIDP
09-14-2010, 03:11 PM
All those small sample size numbers really proves how valuable a guy is. Mean while in his 400 other PA...

Kiss the Baby00
09-14-2010, 03:41 PM
All those small sample size numbers really proves how valuable a guy is. Mean while in his 400 other PA...

your continual crying about gomes and cabrerra playing isnt going to make them go anywhere.

bshall2105
09-14-2010, 03:57 PM
your continual crying about gomes and cabrerra playing isnt going to make them go anywhere.

Nothing that anybody posts on a message board will make the Reds go anywhere.

GIDP
09-14-2010, 04:30 PM
your continual crying about gomes and cabrerra playing isnt going to make them go anywhere.

Sadly, you posting about my "continual crying" isnt going to do much either. So congrats on pointing out how its not going to do anything. Proved a point.

Vottomatic
09-14-2010, 08:58 PM
I like Jonny's attitude and aggressiveness. I think he's a gamer and good clubhouse influence.

But in no way should he be batting anywhere but 7th or 8th. And I'd feel even better if he was just the 4th or 5th outfielder.

GIDP
09-14-2010, 09:57 PM
I like Jonny's attitude and aggressiveness. I think he's a gamer and good clubhouse influence.

But in no way should he be batting anywhere but 7th or 8th. And I'd feel even better if he was just the 4th or 5th outfielder.

4th OF who plays against lefties only. Like his role was before Dusty fell in love with him.

Kingspoint
09-16-2010, 01:22 AM
And, Gomes continues to do what he does better than anyone else on the team....hit in to first inning....with an RBI-Triple in the 1st tonight. He added a suprise tonight with an RBI-Single in the 8th....a rarity for him, but what's not a rarity is his ability to drive in runs when they're in scoring position.

GIDP
09-16-2010, 08:59 AM
And, Gomes continues to do what he does better than anyone else on the team....hit in to first inning....with an RBI-Triple in the 1st tonight. He added a suprise tonight with an RBI-Single in the 8th....a rarity for him, but what's not a rarity is his ability to drive in runs when they're in scoring position.

You know that if a guy goes 10-10 in 1 month with RISP it would take an 0-24 to stop him from being a .300 hitter with RISP.

Hitting with runners on base is a good thing, but to suggest a player is more valuable when he hits .225/.287/.368 with no one on base for 251 PA just because he hit well with RISP in 130 some ABs doesnt really fly in the real world of stats.

Hes basically hits worse than anyone on the team, other than when you cherry pick out 130 PA then hes hit well.

I could do that for every player on the team. Yes hes had decent success with RISP, but that also isnt repeatable, and falls completely in line with sample size problems.

scott91575
09-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Thankfully GIDP has me on ignore for pointing out his random stat ramblings. Especially since I have double checked them, and he is very fond of leaving things out he doesn't like, and exaggerated certain stats (like x player is above 2 WAR when he is actually under it, but then comes back and says "well, it's close"). Of course he calls me a nit picker for pointing out the truth to his lies or selective choices.

Anyway, at this point we are stuck with Gomes for better or worse. I am not a fan. Yet we all know Gomes is what he is. GIDP just went stat diving again, posted something he didn't like (once again ignoring what goes against his belief), and starts a stupid debate at a point there is really no reason talking about it.

Kingspoint
09-16-2010, 04:50 PM
You know that if a guy goes 10-10 in 1 month with RISP it would take an 0-24 to stop him from being a .300 hitter with RISP.

Hitting with runners on base is a good thing, but to suggest a player is more valuable when he hits .225/.287/.368 with no one on base for 251 PA just because he hit well with RISP in 130 some ABs doesnt really fly in the real world of stats.

Hes basically hits worse than anyone on the team, other than when you cherry pick out 130 PA then hes hit well.

I could do that for every player on the team. Yes hes had decent success with RISP, but that also isnt repeatable, and falls completely in line with sample size problems.

You're just cherry-picking yourself trying to prove some little point instead of recognizing Gomes for his accomplishments. 165 Plate Appearances (not the 130 that you're talking about...again, trying to cherry pick and stretch the truth) is a lot of plate appearances.

Do you know how many plate appearances a player gets during an entire High School season? Not even close to 160 Plate Appearances. So, according to your theory, you should throw out every single stat that's ever accumulated in any High School season for anyone who's ever played. According to you, the only difference between the guy who is the Player-of-the-Year in the state of Ohio and the player that batted .100 for the entire season is "just a small sample size". It was just plain luck that the POY batted .500 and the other guy batted .100 because there's no possible way that anyone could possibly measure abilities by such a small sample size.

Give me a break!

Your small sample size argument is a joke.

Jonny Gomes is excellent at driving runners in from scoring position, which happens to be one of the most difficult things to do. He's been a Most Valuable RED in many ways because he gives the Starters a lead on a consistent basis allowing them to pitch more comfortably during their time on the mound.

Instead of just giving Gomes an "overall" grade, why don't you look at the good things he does along with the bad things he does along with the things he does well enough. You'd find that there's a lot more to Jonny Gomes than you give him credit for.

GIDP
09-16-2010, 04:51 PM
yea I guess looking at over all stats is silly. My bad.

Kingspoint
09-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Gee, what a coincidence.

The only guy to drive in a run today for the REDS was Jonny Gomes.

And, gee...another coincidence.

It was a first inning Double with a runner in scoring position.

With his 1 for 2 effort today w/ RISP, he's now hitting at .351/.428/.647/1.074 in 166 PA's.

GIDP
09-26-2010, 11:14 PM
Drew Stubbs now has a higher OPS

.758 for Drew and
.754 for Gomes

Ouch.

Krawhitham
09-27-2010, 01:49 AM
It shows that if you have a huge hot streak Dusty will only see that stretch instead of your struggles. If you are consistent, like Bruce with an OPS of .825 every month other than July, you will fall out of favor with Dusty.

Dusty trust his eyes way too much.

and who else do you want in LF?

Heisey?

When Heisey was playing everyday his numbers dropped like a rock, he started playing "full time" in August through early Sept and his average was around .220 during that time

Nix?
When he started hitting he ended on the DL, he had 4 good weeks (last 2 in July 2 two in August) and the rest was worse that Gomes.


Bruce has been missing time lately because he is sore, or so they claim

GIDP
09-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Id rather have Heisey playing yes. Gomes D is that bad, and his bat isnt any better than Heiseys. Heisey slumped sure, but we really are going to piss on his season because of 40 ABs that he possibly was playing while injured?

Ignore the injury aspect, are we going to ignore the other 150 ABs for the sake of it and to play a guy who has had 1 month so far with an OPS over .757 and has bad D?

Why are you afraid of what someone might not do, but arent afraid of what someone else has been doing?

Kingspoint
09-27-2010, 06:57 PM
I want an everyday outfield of Heisey, Stubbs and Bruce. 600+ AB's for each of them.