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View Full Version : Derek Jeter: "I Would Like to Thank the Academy"



redsmetz
09-17-2010, 09:11 AM
Or the selling of a HBP.

I saw an article in the Times and remembered seeing a reference to this on the Random Thoughts thread, but I thought I'd start a separate thread on this question, particularly because we had this discussion as an aside on the game thread wear Joey Votto was grazed by a pitch too.

The NY Times article is here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/sports/baseball/17yankees.html?ref=sports) and this has the video (http://today24news.com/sports/derek-jeter-hit-by-pitch-video-hot-on-web-174370).

The point made in the game thread was that Votto should have wanted to stay as a hitter. Others countered that reaching base is the purpose of being at the plate, so get there however you can.

Of course, the larger question in the Jeter incident is such chicanery cheating, particularly when you go all Vaudeville like Jeter did here. I've suggested from time to time, where Reds players who appeared to have been hit, haven't done a good jobbing of selling it on very close ones.

cumberlandreds
09-17-2010, 09:20 AM
In days gone by it would be very easy to get away with this and no one would think much about it. But now with every game on TV and nearly every play scrutinized, Jeter or anyone else who does this comes off as looking like a cheat or just not very good.

bucksfan2
09-17-2010, 09:32 AM
Baseball has a way of policing itself. Next time the Rays play the Yankees I fully expect Jeter to take one in the ribs at one point.

oneupper
09-17-2010, 09:57 AM
HBP will be added to the "reviewable play" list sooner or later.

Chip R
09-17-2010, 10:03 AM
What's the big deal here? If this happened to one of our guys we would be applauding him. Any of our catchers ever frame a pitch? Start going to 1st on a 3 ball count on a borderline strike? Trap a ball and act like it was caught? I suppose when Brandon Phillips drops a line drive with a runner at 1st, he shouldn't try to get a double play?

WVRed
09-17-2010, 10:11 AM
What's the big deal here? If this happened to one of our guys we would be applauding him. Any of our catchers ever frame a pitch? Start going to 1st on a 3 ball count on a borderline strike? Trap a ball and act like it was caught? I suppose when Brandon Phillips drops a line drive with a runner at 1st, he shouldn't try to get a double play?

Reverse the roles:

Yadier Molina, Chris Carpenter, or Albert Pujols.

To me its no different than a player for Duke in college basketball flopping trying to draw a charge. It's an unwritten rule and unfortunately for the Rays, given Jeter's overall presence they might be wise to let it go and not retaliate.

Chip R
09-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Reverse the roles:

Yadier Molina, Chris Carpenter, or Albert Pujols.

To me its no different than a player for Duke in college basketball flopping trying to draw a charge. It's an unwritten rule and unfortunately for the Rays, given Jeter's overall presence they might be wise to let it go and not retaliate.


Actually, it's not an unwritten rule. The umpire made a bad call. Players in all sports do stuff like this all the time. If this was someone like Jeff Keppinger, no one would care and it wouldn't take up all this cyber and airtime space. Since it's Jeter now it's a cause celebre.

RedsBaron
09-17-2010, 10:25 AM
As BCubb2003 posted, Jeter is a better actor than the actresses he has dated.

oneupper
09-17-2010, 10:31 AM
In the FIFA World Cup, the biggest complaint was the "flopping".
"Americans don't do that"...etc.

Well, here you have it. Personally, I don't like the World Cup flopping or Jeter's acting.

You got the call? Take your base and let it go. You didn't? Grab your bat, the pitcher's waiting.

membengal
09-17-2010, 12:38 PM
It's not that it's a big deal, it's that he went to the lengths of carrying the act to involving the trainer. I thought that was a bit much. He already had the call...

If that had been A-Rod who had done that, he is still being roasted.

Chip R
09-17-2010, 12:42 PM
It's not that it's a big deal, it's that he went to the lengths of carrying the act to involving the trainer. I thought that was a bit much. He already had the call...

If that had been A-Rod who had done that, he is still being roasted.


What did you want him to do, say, "Ouch, that hurts." in a monotone? If you are going to act like your hand was hit, you need to sell it. Frankly, I wouldn't care if A-Rod did it either.

KoryMac5
09-17-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't blame Jeter one bit in this sitaution. The umpires blew the call without all the acting from Jeter. You could hear that ball hit the bat all the way out in the parking lot it was so loud. I do understand where some folks are coming from as I too could have done without the look Jeter gave the umpire or the sheepish grin afterwards but gamesmanship is part of the game.

Puffy
09-17-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm sorry, but Derek Jeter hits at the top of the Yankee order so his job is to get on base, right? He got on base. Jeter doesn't hotdog, does things the right way and people on this board hate him because he is a Yankee, plain and simple. Get over it - like Chip said if a Red had done this we would be applauding them as it put a runner on in a tight game and eventually helped the team pull ahead for the moment.

And Minka Kelly can damn sure act!!!!!! You guys leave her out of this!

Roy Tucker
09-17-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm fine with the acting Jeter did. Like many have said, if it were a Red, we'd be applauding it. That's why its called a game.

My only quibble (and, granted, its a small-minded and Yankee-hating one) is his continuing the act with the trainer and feigning pain when the trainer squeezed his arm. It was like "ok, it worked, pretend to shake it off and let's move on, this is getting a little silly". But I'm saying this because I don't like the Yankees.

membengal
09-17-2010, 02:01 PM
He had been awarded the base. So take it. What's the need for the trainer shenanigans. Just because?

redsmetz
09-17-2010, 02:13 PM
He had been awarded the base. So take it. What's the need for the trainer shenanigans. Just because?

The article suggested that he may have done all the acting because the ball had landed in fair territory and the Rays had thrown down to first base. If he gives it more time, the hypothesis went, the umpires might have changed the call from HBP to batted ball and he's out.

I'm a firm believer in a battery selling a close call and in some of our cases, I think our batter was hit, but they didn't react much or at all and the umpires didn't call it. In this case, no question, Jeter gives a full performance and he's not likely to get away with it again should this ever happen again in his career. And it's not out of the question he gets one in the ribs just so he can have the full effect next time. But it isn't the first time players have tried to give the appearance of something to get the outcome they want and it won't be the last, I'm sure.

RFS62
09-17-2010, 04:24 PM
I'm fine with the acting Jeter did. Like many have said, if it were a Red, we'd be applauding it. That's why its called a game.

My only quibble (and, granted, its a small-minded and Yankee-hating one) is his continuing the act with the trainer and feigning pain when the trainer squeezed his arm. It was like "ok, it worked, pretend to shake it off and let's move on, this is getting a little silly". But I'm saying this because I don't like the Yankees.

My feelings exactly. It's every right thinking Americans duty to hate the Yankees

Brutus
09-17-2010, 04:42 PM
I applaud Jeter. First, it was a terrific acting job. Second, he did what he's paid to do: get on base and score runs. So many guys try to lamely sell their stuff, he actually did it well.

blumj
09-17-2010, 04:56 PM
The umpire's the one who should be embarrassed, as usual. Why is it considered acceptable for umpires to make calls based on the reactions of players instead of what they actually see? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for them to ask another umpire with a better view of what happened, instead of the one umpire who obviously didn't see what happened making the call and the others are not supposed to do or say anything no matter what they saw?

KoryMac5
09-17-2010, 05:03 PM
The umpire's the one who should be embarrassed, as usual. Why is it considered acceptable for umpires to make calls based on the reactions of players instead of what they actually see? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for them to ask another umpire with a better view of what happened, instead of the one umpire who obviously didn't see what happened making the call and the others are not supposed to do or say anything no matter what they saw?

They even conferenced on it and still got it wrong. That's why Maddon got
tossed. He basically asked them how all four of them could miss that call.

redsmetz
09-17-2010, 05:10 PM
Someone mentioned some players rushing off to first to try to get a Ball Four call. I don't have any data on it, but it seems to me anymore that seems counter productive. It seems like more times than not, the umpire decides to rule the other way on anything close. I could be entirely wrong with that, but it's the impression I get.

George Anderson
09-17-2010, 05:34 PM
They even conferenced on it and still got it wrong. That's why Maddon got
tossed. He basically asked them how all four of them could miss that call.

I watched the replay. The only umpire who could have possibly overturned the call would be the first base ump. Jeter blocked the view of what the third base ump saw and the second base ump had no angle of the play so that only left first base. From where Maddon was in the dugout he probally had a good angle on seeing the play that three of the four umpires didn't have so that is why Maddon couldn't understand how they missed the call.

Again, in umpiring having a good angle on the play is key to making the right call.

reds44
09-17-2010, 05:35 PM
If Joey Votto did this somebody on this board would call out his manhood and say he should have tried to stay in the box. I'm pretty sure that happend when he actually got hit by a pitch one time.

RFS62
09-17-2010, 07:26 PM
How many tokens with the umps did Jeter use up here?

It may not be smart to fool them in a way which becomes a national joke. I'm sure he wasn't thinking about any of that in the instant it happened, but if I were that ump, or any other ump who thought it was bush league and an insult to the umpires, Mr. Jeter's strike zone would be expanding for a while.

Larkin Fan
09-17-2010, 07:56 PM
What did you want him to do, say, "Ouch, that hurts." in a monotone? If you are going to act like your hand was hit, you need to sell it. Frankly, I wouldn't care if A-Rod did it either.

He already had the call from his acting job at the plate. There was no need to go down to first to continue the charade and waste further time by bringing the trainer out for an exam. He already had the call.

Acting like you've been hit by a pitch to get a base is one thing. I think most of us recognize and accept that as part of playing the game. If that is all Jeter had done in this instance, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I personally found his actions after the so-called HBP to be quite ridiculous and unnecessary. He sold his story at the plate with his acting ability and was awarded his base. There simply was no reason to go down to first and continue the charade by going through the motions of letting the trainer examine him and wasting more time. He knew he wasn't hurt. He could have played the tough guy, waved the trainer off, and got back to playing the game. Not to mention the arrogance of showing up the ump afterwards was both ill-advised and bushleague.

Chip R
09-17-2010, 08:13 PM
He already had the call from his acting job at the plate. There was no need to go down to first to continue the charade and waste further time by bringing the trainer out for an exam. He already had the call.

Acting like you've been hit by a pitch to get a base is one thing. I think most of us recognize and accept that as part of playing the game. If that is all Jeter had done in this instance, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I personally found his actions after the so-called HBP to be quite ridiculous and unnecessary. He sold his story at the plate with his acting ability and was awarded his base. There simply was no reason to go down to first and continue the charade by going through the motions of letting the trainer examine him and wasting more time. He knew he wasn't hurt. He could have played the tough guy, waved the trainer off, and got back to playing the game. Not to mention the arrogance of showing up the ump afterwards was both ill-advised and bushleague.

And if anyone else that wasn't a big time player like Jeter had done the exact same thing, no one would care. It's a big deal because it's Jeter, that's all. If Brandon had done this with the trainer and everything, we would have loved it and no one else would have cared.

Tony Cloninger
09-17-2010, 10:45 PM
Hopefully the umps care enough to start ex[anding the zone to Jeter.
That team gets borderline calls up and down that lineup just for wearing the NY.

George Anderson
09-17-2010, 11:27 PM
Hopefully the umps care enough to start ex[anding the zone to Jeter.
That team gets borderline calls up and down that lineup just for wearing the NY.

The umps shouldn't resort to changing the zone just because of what Jeter did. Never should an umpire use something that has happened in the past to affect how the game is called. Nothing is more important than the integrity of the game and an umpire should never do anything to make people question his integrity.

What Jeter did was bush league but if an umpire retaliates and does something similar to what your suggesting then that is beyond bush league.

RFS62
09-17-2010, 11:31 PM
The umps shouldn't resort to changing the zone just because of what Jeter did. Never should an umpire use something that has happened in the past to affect how the game is called. Nothing is more important than the integrity of the game and an umpire should never do anything to make people question his integrity.

What Jeter did was bush league but if an umpire retaliates and does something similar to what your suggesting then that is beyond bush league.



George, I know you're an umpire. Are you suggesting that major league umpires don't remember stuff like this?

There are plenty of opportunities to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I think he just spent some of that goodwill.

Chip R
09-17-2010, 11:37 PM
The umps shouldn't resort to changing the zone just because of what Jeter did. Never should an umpire use something that has happened in the past to affect how the game is called. Nothing is more important than the integrity of the game and an umpire should never do anything to make people question his integrity.

What Jeter did was bush league but if an umpire retaliates and does something similar to what your suggesting then that is beyond bush league.

You're right, George, but these guys are human and I don't think that this umpire likes being made a fool of by Jeter.

Tony Cloninger
09-17-2010, 11:39 PM
Umps (some) will hold that act as bush themselves and might not give him a call they normally would. It's not like they DO NOT get close calls.....especially balls and strikes. It is not a coincidence that just about every Yankee hitter turns into Eddie Yost the way they work the counts?
I saw them get the corners at Minnesota a few years back.....it's not like the Twins had not won a division or 2 during that period ( i think this was 06-07)...and the Twins manager was basically just showing the ump how he was obviously calling the corners for them. I am going off the rails here......but if this makes them squeeze Jeter a little more...fine with me.

Not questioning umpires integrity but they do go up and down with that zone...and it also based on the team and the hitter as well.

George Anderson
09-17-2010, 11:40 PM
George, I know you're an umpire. Are you suggesting that major league umpires don't remember stuff like this?

There are plenty of opportunities to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I think he just spent some of that goodwill.

I have no doubt they remember incidents like this but I would be hard pressed to think an umpire would jeopardize the integrity of the game just to make a point such as expanding the strike zone to get even with a player.

Now if a similar incident arises where it appears Jeter was hit but the umpire isn't to terribly sure if the ball hit him or not then yes the umpire is going to remember Jeters past actions when making a judgement. They aren't going to punish Jeter for what happened in the past but they will remember what he did do in the past and use that as a factor when making a decision.

George Anderson
09-17-2010, 11:45 PM
You're right, George, but these guys are human and I don't think that this umpire likes being made a fool of by Jeter.

I really don't see the umpire being made a fool of. All Jeter did was pull one over on the umpire and he got away with it. If a similar incident happened with me behind the plate I would simply acknowledge someone pulled a fast one on me and move on. Now if the next time up a similar incident occurs with the same batter then trust me, I will remember what happened and won't be so quick to give him first base.