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LoganBuck
09-21-2010, 02:32 PM
Saw this thread on Sundeck. It interested me because the thought occurred to me that the Rockies still seemed to be able to play old fashioned Coors Field Baseball, and the rest of the league hadn't adjusted to that style of play.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/20/SPC21FGRMA.DTL


In 75 games at Coors Field, the Rockies have hit .304 with 102 homers and 790 hits. Opponents have hit .258 with 67 homers and 698 hits. The Rockies have outscored visitors 452-345

OesterPoster
09-21-2010, 02:39 PM
I read that too, and I'm just not sure how you could do it. Does the ball boy bring out a batch of baseballs to the ump at the start of every half inning? How do you keep track of the ones he doesn't use that half inning?

mbgrayson
09-21-2010, 03:00 PM
I think the explanation is far more simple: visiting pitchers are not used to the lack of break on breaking balls in the Mile High city, and the home pitchers are. Rockies pitchers, that throw 81 games in the thin air, have time to adjust to the different environment, while visitors don't. This means the Rockies routinely get pitching similiar to 'hanging' breaking pitches to hit, while oppenents don't as often.

Likewise, Rockies hitters come to expect less break on pitches, and they thrive on that. Visiting hitters struggle, since they expect breaking balls to behave like they do at sea level. Exhibit #1 here:CarGo. Look at his home road splits. To me, the man knows that those curve balls just don't curve much in Denver, and thrives on that fact. On the road, he is ordinary.

To the degree that pitching in the higher elevation is different (flatter pitches), there is a higher premium on things like pinpoint control, keeping the ball down, and having ground ball pitchers on your staff. Perhaps the Rockies also know better than their visitors how to defense that huge outfield.

The humdor thing strikes me as nonsense.

At the end of each half inning, the home plate ump may still have three or four baseballs in his pouch. Those balls cross over from one team to the other. The ump could easily notice if the balls seemed very different, and the whole scheme could be ruined if one single ballboy spilled his guts. Could also be proven by a single ump taking a couple random balls out of his pouch, and sealing them in a ziploc baggie, marking them, and weighing them or checking for moisture content. Far too easy to catch.

What would MLB do if this were true? Could be HUGE ramifications. I don't think the Rockies are dumb enough to risk it.

For me, I buy the pitchers adjustment theory....

Brutus
09-21-2010, 03:29 PM
I think the explanation is far more simple: visiting pitchers are not used to the lack of break on breaking balls in the Mile High city, and the home pitchers are. Rockies pitchers, that throw 81 games in the thin air, have time to adjust to the different environment, while visitors don't. This means the Rockies routinely get pitching similiar to 'hanging' breaking pitches to hit, while oppenents don't as often.

Likewise, Rockies hitters come to expect less break on pitches, and they thrive on that. Visiting hitters struggle, since they expect breaking balls to behave like they do at sea level. Exhibit #1 here:CarGo. Look at his home road splits. To me, the man knows that those curve balls just don't curve much in Denver, and thrives on that fact. On the road, he is ordinary.

To the degree that pitching in the higher elevation is different (flatter pitches), there is a higher premium on things like pinpoint control, keeping the ball down, and having ground ball pitchers on your staff. Perhaps the Rockies also know better than their visitors how to defense that huge outfield.

The humdor thing strikes me as nonsense.

At the end of each half inning, the home plate ump may still have three or four baseballs in his pouch. Those balls cross over from one team to the other. The ump could easily notice if the balls seemed very different, and the whole scheme could be ruined if one single ballboy spilled his guts. Could also be proven by a single ump taking a couple random balls out of his pouch, and sealing them in a ziploc baggie, marking them, and weighing them or checking for moisture content. Far too easy to catch.

What would MLB do if this were true? Could be HUGE ramifications. I don't think the Rockies are dumb enough to risk it.

For me, I buy the pitchers adjustment theory....

I don't think the adjustment thing has much to do with it (though I'm skeptical of the humidor thing too).

The essay I posted in the CarGo MVP thread pretty much shot down the idea that visiting pitchers are pitching much differently to Rockies' hitters than Rockies' pitchers throwing to visiting hitters. It broke down pitch type, effectiveness, etc. and the types are being thrown almost the same rates as Rocky pitchers. Really the only difference was that Rockies' hitters were having more success against the fastball (especially CarGo) than visiting teams. It was a very thorough study.

Rockies' pitchers are throwing a lot of sinkerballs, which helps somewhat, but the adjustment thing doesn't seem to hold much water. Further, given the history of Rockies' baseball since they entered the league, there has rarely been evidence their pitchers have adjusted too terribly much relative to the opposition, certainly not as drastically as this season.

RE: the baseball thing...it's basically that ball boys bring new baseballs to the umpire each half inning. Sometimes the umpire has run out, other times he has one or two left in his pouch. It's certainly possible that the Rockies could use the non-humidor trick late in the game if they're behind by a few runs or more, as they would at least be guaranteed of getting into the new baseballs in their half inning if planned properly. But they would have little control over those baseballs making their way into the home team's pitching mitts.

PuffyPig
09-21-2010, 03:33 PM
I think the explanation is far more simple: visiting pitchers are not used to the lack of break on breaking balls in the Mile High city, and the home pitchers are. Rockies pitchers, that throw 81 games in the thin air, have time to adjust to the different environment, while visitors don't. This means the Rockies routinely get pitching similiar to 'hanging' breaking pitches to hit, while oppenents don't as often.



Makes sense, but what is doesn't explain is why, in the past, the Rockies advantage wasn't so great.

Why are teams now failing to make adjustments, when in the past, since day one, they were?

edabbs44
09-25-2010, 12:49 PM
More Cordero like fuel to the fire, with video.


Did Tim Lincecum Get 'Juiced Ball' at Coors Field?

Although Giants ace Tim Lincecum tossed an eight-inning gem to beat the Rockies on Friday night at Coors Field, the pitcher was caught on television seemingly mouthing the words "juiced balls" as he tossed a ball back to the umpire. The clip no doubt gave more legs to the theory that the Rockies have been slipping non-humidor balls into play when they are batting.


http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/09/25/did-tim-lincecum-get-a-juiced-ball-at-coors-field/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Redsfaithful
09-25-2010, 02:37 PM
He said it a little more colorfully than just "juiced ball".

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 11:38 PM
MLB is now stepping in to oversee the use of humidor balls. See HERE (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/09/25/did-tim-lincecum-get-a-juiced-ball-at-coors-field/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002). Wow.



Starting tonight, the umpires will have more say in keeping their eyes on balls transported from the humidor to the Rockies' dugout to the umpires' ball pouch to the pitcher's hand. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?entry_id=73157)

Big Klu
09-25-2010, 11:50 PM
I had dismissed this (I tend not to be a conspiracy theorist). But if MLB has decided to observe the humidor more closely, then it tells me that Bud's office believes that high-altitude shenanigans are at least theoretically possible.

LincolnparkRed
09-27-2010, 11:55 AM
Just for comparison sake GABP has played to the reds advantage as well

Reds Batting

374 Runs, 695 Hits, 94 HR

Reds Pitching

326 Runs, 678 Hits, 79 HR

oneupper
09-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Giants took two of three at Coors after the new oversight was implemented. It was almost a sweep.

Very interesting.

HotCorner
09-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Lincecum and Cain completely shut down the Rockies. Lincecum was caught on camera mouthing the words "juiced balls", among a few more choice words.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?entry_id=73157

YouTube - tim lincecum juiced ball comment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4iVpgf6Lg0&feature=player_embedded)

Cedric
09-27-2010, 12:25 PM
So a "juiced ball" in that ballpark is just a regular baseball not in a humidor elsewhere?

So Lincecum just looked a normal baseball he throws every day and said "juiced ball, *****."

Does anyone see how dumb that looks? Sounds like a Cris Carpenter moment to me.

Chip R
09-27-2010, 12:34 PM
So a "juiced ball" in that ballpark is just a regular baseball not in a humidor elsewhere?

So Lincecum just looked a normal baseball he throws every day and said "juiced ball, *****."

Does anyone see how dumb that looks? Sounds like a Cris Carpenter moment to me.


I believe that pitchers' fingers and hands are very sensitive. You hear stories about pitchers throwing balls back because the seams weren't raised enough or some other thing. I am assuming that a ball that's been in a humidor would feel different than a ball that wasn't. It might be slightly heavier, the texture may be different, etc. If anyone could tell subtle differences in baseballs, it would be a pitcher.

top6
09-27-2010, 12:35 PM
So a "juiced ball" in that ballpark is just a regular baseball not in a humidor elsewhere?

So Lincecum just looked a normal baseball he throws every day and said "juiced ball, *****."

Does anyone see how dumb that looks? Sounds like a Cris Carpenter moment to me.

Not really that dumb if he had been throwing "humidored" balls all game, and then all of a sudden got a normal one.

kaldaniels
09-27-2010, 12:46 PM
So a "juiced ball" in that ballpark is just a regular baseball not in a humidor elsewhere?

So Lincecum just looked a normal baseball he throws every day and said "juiced ball, *****."

Does anyone see how dumb that looks? Sounds like a Cris Carpenter moment to me.

First mistake of this remark...you simply assert that he looked at the ball...no,no...he felt it.

Second, it seems you are complaining about the term "juiced". So what? Maybe it is not the correct term, but everyone knows what he is talking about. Maybe in hindsight he should have said "non-temperature/humidity controlled ball, ****."

I read once where back in the day a team (White Sox perhaps) kept balls for when the other team batted in the fridge...teams are always out to gain an edge. Nothing dumb about what Lincecum did.

Cedric
09-27-2010, 12:56 PM
First mistake of this remark...you simply assert that he looked at the ball...no,no...he felt it.

Second, it seems you are complaining about the term "juiced". So what? Maybe it is not the correct term, but everyone knows what he is talking about. Maybe in hindsight he should have said "non-temperature/humidity controlled ball, ****."

I read once where back in the day a team (White Sox perhaps) kept balls for when the other team batted in the fridge...teams are always out to gain an edge. Nothing dumb about what Lincecum did.

It's not dumb if the whole thing is just in his head?

I don't think it's happen stance that he complained about it during the weekend the Giants have made a whole stink about it.

I'm sorry if I think the conspiracy theory could be wrong and it was just in his head.

The Operator
09-27-2010, 01:05 PM
I don't think it's really just The Giants, though. I know we discussed it in every Game Thread during The Rockie series. I mean, anytime a team installs something that basically controls the physical environment of a baseball for better performance, they certainly could abuse that to their own advantage.

It is weird how, almost at will, The Rockies started crushing the ball and rolling over everyone at home in September. I even remember Jim Tracy saying "don't count my team out, bla bla bla" on MLB Network just a day or two before they went on their big tear. It was almost like he knew what was going down.

I'm not saying The Rockies ARE doing it. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be the first team a pro sports team has gone out of it's way to find an edge.

I also think it's a little stupid of that umpire to basically say "This is BS, nothing is going on, MLB just wants us to do this." He should just keep his mouth shut and do the job MLB asks him to do. He's an umpire, commentary is not what he is paid for. Although, after this series we just saw in SD, I'm beginning to wonder what unmpires ARE paid for.

BrooklynRedz
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
A couple things going on here:

1) when the Rockies first installed and began use of the humidor, they did so without any consultation of the Commissioner's office. So there exists a cloak-and-dagger concern that the Rockies are not being 100% truthful with regards to the management and oversight of the process by which balls are placed in and removed from the humidor.
2) as others have noted, it is not just the Rockies that have voiced concerns over the process, specifically the oversight. With the D-backs now looking into installation of a humidor at Chase Field next season, there is greater concern throughout the league that without proper oversight, teams are left to their own devices in the 'gaming' of the equipment.
3) Of the differences between a ball stored in a humidor and one stored at Denver altitude not in a humidor is the feel of the leather. The leather of a ball stored in a humidor will feel less 'hard' and there is a difference in the weight. So if anyone would be able to tell the difference, it would be a pitcher who has received a 'hard' (aka 'juiced') ball after rubbing it up. The leather just feels differently (or so I'm told and have read).

ochre
09-27-2010, 01:19 PM
Just for comparison sake GABP has played to the reds advantage as well

Reds Batting

374 Runs, 695 Hits, 94 HR

Reds Pitching

326 Runs, 678 Hits, 79 HR
Road:
Reds Batting
391 Runs, 759 Hits, 86 HR

Reds Pitching

344 Runs, 684 Hits, 76 HR

Roy Tucker
09-27-2010, 01:25 PM
I wonder how long it takes baseballs that have been in the Coor humidor to "dry out" and return to un-humidor condition balls? Baseballs fresh out of the humidor could behave much differently that those that have been out 12 hours. There is room for shenanigans.

I'm glad MLB is going to supervise the whole deal and take the doubt out of it.

medford
09-27-2010, 01:28 PM
A couple things going on here:


3) Of the differences between a ball stored in a humidor and one stored at Denver altitude not in a humidor is the feel of the leather. The leather of a ball stored in a humidor will feel less 'hard' and there is a difference in the weight. So if anyone would be able to tell the difference, it would be a pitcher who has received a 'hard' (aka 'juiced') ball after rubbing it up. The leather just feels differently (or so I'm told and have read).

this reminds me of something I read about Tiger Woods a few years ago when he first started using Nike Equipment and it was in its development phase. The engineers gave Tiger a bunch of slightly different drivers to try on the range and provide his feedback for. The shafts were all suppose to be identicle with slight alteration to each driver head. The driver heads were all suppose to weight the same amount and had been weighed by the engineers prior to being shafted and given to Tiger for testing. After a round of testing, Tiger proclaimed that he liked the club w/ the heavier shaft. The Engineers all looked at each other since the shafts were all suppose to be identicle, however after weighing each shaft, they discovered that there was one shaft, the one Tiger pointed out that was a fraction heavier than the rest of the shafts. Probably unnoticable to you and I, but in the hands of an expert, its noticable.

Point being, Lincecum would know better than anyone if the balls felt a little different, if they felt 'funny'. Could be precieved, could be real, could be trying to gain an advantage by forcing the umps to pay closer attention to the Rockies even if he knows the balls are the same, relatively speaking.

As others have said, no matter what the Rocks are or are not doing, its hard to believe they would allow them to keep their balls in an alterred environment. Personally, it would seem that a secret like that would be hard to keep. At some point someone would have to brag about how their beating the system, then rumors start to fly and the truth is quickly discovered. But if there is an advantage to be gained, I'm not going to put it past any team/organization to take any corner they can get.

Chip R
09-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Point being, Lincecum would know better than anyone if the balls felt a little different, if they felt 'funny'. Could be precieved, could be real, could be trying to gain an advantage by forcing the umps to pay closer attention to the Rockies even if he knows the balls are the same, relatively speaking.

As others have said, no matter what the Rocks are or are not doing, its hard to believe they would allow them to keep their balls in an alterred environment. Personally, it would seem that a secret like that would be hard to keep. At some point someone would have to brag about how their beating the system, then rumors start to fly and the truth is quickly discovered. But if there is an advantage to be gained, I'm not going to put it past any team/organization to take any corner they can get.

Yeah. There are hitters out there - both now and in the past - that could tell you if their bat was an ounce heavier or lighter than what it was supposed to be. There are basketball players who can tell if the rim is a bit higher or lower than 10 feet.

At first I dismissed this whole conspiracy theory about the baseballs. I thought it would be too difficult to get the right balls out there when they are supposed to be there without the cooperation of the umpires. I'm still somewhat skeptical and I do think the Giants are at least partially using this to get into the Rockies heads but I wouldn't be willing to dismiss it out of hand quite yet.

So what is to be done about this? If the D-Backs are going to do this too, then the possibility for shenanigans is there with them as well. Perhaps we should just do away with the humidors. Minor league baseball survived in Denver and other places of high altitude for decades without a humidor. Of course the games are going to look like football scores but no one dehumidifies balls in San Diego. I think once you start messing with the balls and bats to adjust to the elements, you mess with the integrity of the game.

kaldaniels
09-27-2010, 03:02 PM
It's not dumb if the whole thing is just in his head?

I don't think it's happen stance that he complained about it during the weekend the Giants have made a whole stink about it.

I'm sorry if I think the conspiracy theory could be wrong and it was just in his head.

I guess I'm just wondering what evidence you bring to the table to support your "dumb" or 'Carpenteresque" remarks...I'm the first to say who knows what is going on out there...but I'm not calling anyone names either.

Cedric
09-27-2010, 03:13 PM
I guess I'm just wondering what evidence you bring to the table to support your "dumb" or 'Carpenteresque" remarks...I'm the first to say who knows what is going on out there...but I'm not calling anyone names either.

I thought it was whining. Is it that big of a deal that you needed to respond twice?

Pick your usual fights elsewhere.

Brutus
09-27-2010, 03:26 PM
It's not dumb if the whole thing is just in his head?

I don't think it's happen stance that he complained about it during the weekend the Giants have made a whole stink about it.

I'm sorry if I think the conspiracy theory could be wrong and it was just in his head.

Since I'm guessing you've never touched a humidor baseball, how can you criticize him for knowing whether there's a difference?

Every report I've read is that a non-humidor baseball is more slippery and that most pitchers can feel the difference. Many have probably noticed but not thought about it, perhaps passed it off as not being rubbed down enough.

I don't think of this as a Chris Carpenter moment because unlike Carpenter, he didn't take his whining public. It doesn't change whether or not the baseballs were different, but it was a remark made to the umpire that happened to be caught on a video close-up. He wasn't whining to anyone except returning a baseball.

Chip R
09-27-2010, 03:31 PM
I thought it was whining. Is it that big of a deal that you needed to respond twice?

Pick your usual fights elsewhere.


I think you're the one picking a fight. Cool it.

Cedric
09-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Since I'm guessing you've never touched a humidor baseball, how can you criticize him for knowing whether there's a difference?

Every report I've read is that a non-humidor baseball is more slippery and that most pitchers can feel the difference. Many have probably noticed but not thought about it, perhaps passed it off as not being rubbed down enough.

I don't think of this as a Chris Carpenter moment because unlike Carpenter, he didn't take his whining public. It doesn't change whether or not the baseballs were different, but it was a remark made to the umpire that happened to be caught on a video close-up. He wasn't whining to anyone except returning a baseball.

I think this was all about getting a mental edge. The Giants have whined and brought this up to the point where now they are convinced it's true.

I don't for one second think the Rockies are systematically cheating. It's just my opinion.

Brutus
09-27-2010, 03:37 PM
I think this was all about getting a mental edge. The Giants have whined and brought this up to the point where now they are convinced it's true.

I don't for one second think the Rockies are systematically cheating. It's just my opinion.

It seems to me you are ignoring the possibilities because you're convinced the Rockies aren't doing what is being alleged. What if they are? Are the Giants still whining if what they're alleging is true? I'd say it's not about getting a mental edge but truly about not preserving a physical disadvantage.

I really don't think the Giants are trying to get an edge. They're not taking their case public. They're not even commenting about it in public. It seems that if a reporter hadn't been able to pick up on what was happening, none of us would know. I recognize it's possible the Giants tipped off the reporter, but even so, he said no one within the organization could be reached for comment. So perhaps they had nothing to do with that.

What do the Giants have to gain by doing this if they're wrong about the allegations? How does what they're doing give them any edge? I certainly don't think it's bothering the Rockies' players one bit whether or not the Giants are worried about the humidor.

Cedric
09-27-2010, 03:42 PM
It seems to me you are ignoring the possibilities because you're convinced the Rockies aren't doing what is being alleged. What if they are? Are the Giants still whining if what they're alleging is true? I'd say it's not about getting a mental edge but truly about not preserving a physical disadvantage.

I really don't think the Giants are trying to get an edge. They're not taking their case public. They're not even commenting about it in public. It seems that if a reporter hadn't been able to pick up on what was happening, none of us would know. I recognize it's possible the Giants tipped off the reporter, but even so, he said no one within the organization could be reached for comment. So perhaps they had nothing to do with that.

What do the Giants have to gain by doing this if they're wrong about the allegations? How does what they're doing give them any edge? I certainly don't think it's bothering the Rockies' players one bit whether or not the Giants are worried about the humidor.

The same could be said from my end. Will I be right in calling Lincecum a whiner if it's proven the baseballs were legit?

I've never had a soft spot in my heart for athletes/teams who complain or try and devalue the work of others. If it's true that the Rockies are cheating than they deserve a huge punishment and MLB should be ashamed for allowing it too happen.

Brutus
09-27-2010, 03:49 PM
The same could be said from my end. Will I be right in calling Lincecum a whiner if it's proven the baseballs were legit?

I've never had a soft spot in my heart for athletes/teams who complain or try and devalue the work of others. If it's true that the Rockies are cheating than they deserve a huge punishment and MLB should be ashamed for allowing it too happen.

By the same token, do you have a soft spot for cheaters? OK if the Rockies aren't doing this, then it was all in Lincecum's head. But if the Rockies are in fact fooling around with the humidor, then why shouldn't they be called on it by Lincecum, the Giants and anyone else.

The fact of the matter is that the Rockies' home/away splits just do not stand the test of reason. And I'm not just talking about their OPS/run difference from Coors Field to road games, but rather the stark contrast of their OPS at home to their opponents, and their road OPS to their opponents. The splits are alarming the last few years.

It just doesn't stand to reason why they're able to hit so well at home but amazingly their opponents don't. It's very possible to do what has been alleged here. Not perfectly, as it relies on timing when the umpire will go through his baseballs. But since they're typically re-stocked every half inning, the Rockies could definitely play fast and loose when they're behind.

Truth is, a lot of teams through the test of time have cheated whenever presented an opportunity. Books have been written at the alarming pace of many pitchers who doctor baseballs. This is just another example of doctoring a baseball in a different way. I don't see why this is so hard to believe.

oneupper
09-27-2010, 03:52 PM
The fact of the matter is that the Rockies' home/away splits just do not stand the test of reason.


This.

If it quacks like a duck...

People were clamoring for PROOF of Barry Bonds PED abuse also.

Sometimes the best explanation is the most simple one, even if we don't like it.

westofyou
09-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Truth is, a lot of teams through the test of time have cheated whenever presented an opportunity. Books have been written at the alarming pace of many pitchers who doctor baseballs. This is just another example of doctoring a baseball in a different way. I don't see why this is so hard to believe.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1014069/5/index.htm

1967 White Sox



'67—this is the last secret—when he stuck all the baseballs in a cinder-block room with a humidifier for a dozen days before almost every ball game. I'm telling you, the walls and balls were dripping when he was done, the cardboard boxes would fall apart in your hands, but just to be sure, Gene would take the balls to the upper deck the day before a home stand and drop 'em on the warning track. If they bounced higher than five feet, back they went for more sleeping juice, till they felt so cold and clammy that one night Boston hurler Jim Lonborg swore he got frostbite. Shaved a good 15, 20 feet off a fly ball, but since the White Sox that season couldn't reach the wall with a siege gun, didn't hurt them. Unethical? Excuse me, but my son Gene was an every-Sunday-when-the-Sox-weren't-at-home Catholic, a Little League president, a village trustee and commissioner of the South Holland Police Board, and what's more, the snoop that the American League sent to shadow him every day for two solid weeks never found a darn thing.

kaldaniels
09-27-2010, 04:00 PM
this reminds me of something I read about Tiger Woods a few years ago when he first started using Nike Equipment and it was in its development phase. The engineers gave Tiger a bunch of slightly different drivers to try on the range and provide his feedback for. The shafts were all suppose to be identicle with slight alteration to each driver head. The driver heads were all suppose to weight the same amount and had been weighed by the engineers prior to being shafted and given to Tiger for testing. After a round of testing, Tiger proclaimed that he liked the club w/ the heavier shaft. The Engineers all looked at each other since the shafts were all suppose to be identicle, however after weighing each shaft, they discovered that there was one shaft, the one Tiger pointed out that was a fraction heavier than the rest of the shafts. Probably unnoticable to you and I, but in the hands of an expert, its noticable.

Point being, Lincecum would know better than anyone if the balls felt a little different, if they felt 'funny'. Could be precieved, could be real, could be trying to gain an advantage by forcing the umps to pay closer attention to the Rockies even if he knows the balls are the same, relatively speaking.

As others have said, no matter what the Rocks are or are not doing, its hard to believe they would allow them to keep their balls in an alterred environment. Personally, it would seem that a secret like that would be hard to keep. At some point someone would have to brag about how their beating the system, then rumors start to fly and the truth is quickly discovered. But if there is an advantage to be gained, I'm not going to put it past any team/organization to take any corner they can get.

Your story reminds me of a story in the book "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell...in it he speaks of how ancient statue historians can instantly spot a fake...not by pointing to one particular thing, but by just taking a glance at the item and knowing something is "off". The human subconscious is amazing.

smith288
09-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Here's a new video not yet yanked by the MLB (yet)
YouTube - Lincecum notices Rockies' Juiced Ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K74NUqrli5M)

Brutus
09-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Here's a new video not yet yanked by the MLB (yet)
YouTube - Lincecum notices Rockies' Juiced Ball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K74NUqrli5M)

That was posted earlier in the thread.

smith288
09-28-2010, 02:29 PM
That was posted earlier in the thread.
And MLB pulled it from Youtube.

Brutus
09-28-2010, 04:45 PM
And MLB pulled it from Youtube.

Oh I got you. I didn't realize that. Now your wording makes sense. My apologies. :)

smith288
09-28-2010, 04:56 PM
Oh I got you. I didn't realize that. Now your wording makes sense. My apologies. :)
Just dont let it happen again or so help me God.............

or nothing... Ill probably do nothing then either..... *i need to work out*