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kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:06 AM
Welsh has been reading the Rolen trade thread it seems.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:06 AM
Welsh has been reading the Rolen trade thread it seems.
He has to be a lurker here. Just has to be.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:06 AM
Nice stab there by Abe Ondrusek.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Was Walt the GM when Rolen was forced out of St Louis?

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Was Walt the GM when Rolen was forced out of St Louis?
I think they were forced out the same year.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:07 AM
I think Logan is from Goon Island as well. :D

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Logan is bringin' it tonight - just saw him hit 97!

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:08 AM
Logan is bringin' it tonight - just saw him hit 97!

It's the heavy ocean air. :)

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:08 AM
It's the heavy ocean air. :)Dare we bring Chapman in? :cool:

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:09 AM
Dare we bring Chapman in? :cool:

Logan says bite your tongue.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:10 AM
Ramon fields one and takes it to the bag without doing the splits.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:11 AM
Do the players split one big postseason pot...is that why they have to vote on shares?

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:12 AM
One goose egg.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:12 AM
Do the players split one big postseason pot...is that why they have to vote on shares?
I wouldn't like having to vote on shares. Seems like a way for hard feelings to sprout up.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:12 AM
I think they were forced out the same year.

Yeah, I just lookedd it up. Walt was let go right after the season (Oct) and the trade to Toronto happened a few months later in January

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:12 AM
Do the players split one big postseason pot...is that why they have to vote on shares?

They are split based on a percentage to each team. Within the team itself, the players decide how to split the money.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:13 AM
I wouldn't like having to vote on shares. Seems like a way for hard feelings to sprout up.

Thats what I was thinking...why not vote full shares for all?

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:13 AM
They are split based on a percentage to each team. Within the team itself, the players decide how to split the money.

Wonder what Russ Springer gets? 1/80th of a share?

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:14 AM
Yeah, I just lookedd it up. Walt was let go right after the season (Oct) and the trade to Toronto happened a few months later in JanuaryStarting to look like Walt and Rolen were in the right on that piece of history.

I tell ya, that StL franchise is a mess right now. Front office discord, managerial grumpiness, terrible clubhouse, just a mess. And IT IS GREAT.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:14 AM
Wonder what Russ Springer gets? 1/80th of a share?

I think Dr. Andrews deserves his cut ;)

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:15 AM
Thats what I was thinking...why not vote full shares for all?That's what I'd do. But, I guess as long as nobody gets upset about their share, it's whatever. Just seems odd.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:15 AM
They are split based on a percentage to each team. Within the team itself, the players decide how to split the money.

The guys on the 25 man roster all year get a full share and they generally vote and how much of a share (if any) guys like Chapman and even Bloomquist gets.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:16 AM
Thats what I was thinking...why not vote full shares for all?

You think Bloomquist should get a full share?

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:18 AM
George just said The Reds had the best fans in baseball... How much you wanna bet he almost said "Redbirds" :ughmamoru

sivman17
09-25-2010, 12:18 AM
Is it just me or is this home plate umpire extremely inconsistent and continues to call strikes against us when we're batting and balls when we're pitching.

There were at least two would-be strikeout pitches that were in the K zone but the ump called them balls on us when we were pitching.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:20 AM
The guys on the 25 man roster all year get a full share and they generally vote and how much of a share (if any) guys like Chapman and even Bloomquist gets.

It's actually 100% up to the players how to split it on each team. There is not a set method. The players choose how to divvy it up.

From the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Article X, Section C.:


C. Division of Players’ Pool

The division of the Players’ pool shall be made by a vote of the Players,
in a meeting chaired by the Player Representative, at which attendance
shall be limited to Players, except that the field manager, prior
to being excused from such meeting, shall be given first the opportunity
to express his views as to the division of the pool. At the invitation
of the Player Representative, the field manager may be present during
the remainder of the meeting, or any part thereof. The vote of the Players
shall not be subject to alteration, except as may be required to conform
to the Major League Rules.

Non-uniformed personnel of a Club shall not be eligible to receive a
percentage share of the Players’ pool, but shall be eligible to receive
cash awards of defined dollar value, provided that no cash award may
exceed the value of a full share.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:21 AM
And so, I think they are trusting this game to Masset, Chapman and Co Co. I would save Aroldis for the 8th, since that is when Gonzilla will hit in the best case scenario.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:21 AM
Is Ondrusek going a 2nd inning? If so, I'm going on record as not liking it.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:21 AM
You think Bloomquist should get a full share?

At some point you have to draw a line and feelings will be hurt. That said, my original comment was made before it was confirmed that the players split the pot amongst them, so it does make sense.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:22 AM
Ondrusek for a second inning has been a disaster every time.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:23 AM
If you are reading Chris...that was not an "A" from Arroyo tonight.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:24 AM
If you are reading Chris...that was not an "A" from Arroyo tonight.Yea, a 5 inning start is not an "A"

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:25 AM
Ondrusek for a second inning has been a disaster every time.

The Man of Dustiny agrees. Rhodes in.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:25 AM
Logan gets an out and that's all for him.

Old Man Rhodes coming in for the first time in... a long time.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:27 AM
And so, I think they are trusting this game to Masset, Chapman and Co Co. I would save Aroldis for the 8th, since that is when Gonzilla will hit in the best case scenario.Gonzilla is actually better against lefties...I'm not sure if traditional splits apply to Chapman, but Adrian generally hits lefties better. Headley sucks against lefties...I'm not sure why he even bothers switch hitting. :D

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:28 AM
Almost had a Denorfia sighting.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:29 AM
The Man of Dustiny agrees. Rhodes in.

I don't like the Sir Arthur matchup with Hundley. Nick possesses as much right handed power as any hitter on their club.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:30 AM
Strike zone is small.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:30 AM
He's been calling high strikes, but not much of a wide zone at all.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:30 AM
I don't like the Sir Arthur matchup with Hundley. Nick possesses as much right handed power as any hitter on their club.
Is Nick related to Randy and his son Todd?

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:30 AM
Rhode has been bad lately.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:31 AM
Get him out of there Dusty.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:31 AM
Dusty's going to stick with Rhodes just long enough to blow this game.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:32 AM
We're playing with fire here. This is a rested bully with young guns, and we are deferring to the Knight of the Round table. I hope it works out.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:35 AM
Grounder to short bobbled by OC, still get the force at second.

1st and 3rd, 2 outs.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:36 AM
Is there any doubt that this obnoxious sniveling tool will get the game-tying hit and George will spend 20 minutes elevating him to the pantheon on Mount Olympus?

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:36 AM
Dusty's going to stick with Rhodes just long enough to blow this game.He just left him in for Venable, the lefty. ;) Whew!

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:36 AM
Rhode has been bad lately.

He's not healthy. They have to seriously consider whether to keep him on the post season roster

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:37 AM
Is there any doubt that this obnoxious sniveling tool will get the game-tying hit and George will spend 20 minutes elevating him to the pantheon on Mount Olympus?
God, I hope not.

Theoretically, Eckstein shouldn't come within 3 feet of a Nick Masset pitch. But we'll see, this is baseball.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:37 AM
He's not healthy. They have to seriously consider whether to keep him on the post season rosterI think that may be why they used him. They want to see how he's doing...hopefully, he can heal up and get back in the zone before the playoffs.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:38 AM
Eckstein vs. a pitcher like Masset in a dangerous situation like this is much more difficult than if Masset had just started the inning to begin with. All He is going to do is punch at anything in the strike zone, and he stands a good chance of dumping something in front of the outfielders. I don't like the setup. It was set up so well for Masset, Chapman and Co Co to close this thing out.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:38 AM
Is Nick related to Randy and his son Todd?

Yes. Nick is Todd's son.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:38 AM
He's not healthy. They have to seriously consider whether to keep him on the post season roster

I thought the same.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Just unbelievable.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Not a single strike to Eckstein. Now we get Tejada with the bases jacked.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Scrappy Eckstein forces Massett to walk him.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:39 AM
We sure make it easy for these guys to come back

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Scrappy Eckstein forces Massett to walk him.

It's the duck-and-cover strike zone.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Yeah George, Eckstein really "worked" a walk there. He took 4 pitches.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Tejada is likely to dump something off his fists over Cabrera's head. This sucks.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Not a single strike to Eckstein. Now we get Tejada with the bases jacked.You said he wouldn't get within 3 feet...

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Masset isn't even close.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:40 AM
You said he wouldn't get within 3 feet...Sadly, I had something different in mind.

Ball 5....

CTA513
09-25-2010, 12:41 AM
4 pitch walks to Hundley and Eckstein this inning.

:barf:

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:41 AM
Miguel is trying to do more than just put the bat on the ball here George.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:41 AM
If a reliever comes in and walks a guy on 4 straight pitches, you didn't do your job

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:43 AM
Not even close!

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
Masset chokes.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
With their pen, this game is over.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
Unbelievable.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
Jesus. And against that crap offense.

And George couldn't be happier for them. Sickening.

Red in Chicago
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
Nice job nick

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:44 AM
You cannot groove a FB to Tejada. No way that strategy works for the Reds

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Some real dumb managing by Dusty this inning.

CTA513
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Its on both Masset and Rhodes.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Two of the three balls to Tejada were breaking balls that missed the strike zone by a yard. What possible purpose does that garbage serve?

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
This inning was doomed when they decided not to start the inning with Masset.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Given that the runners are moving on the full count there...oddswise how much worse would it be to just unintentionally intentionally throw ball 4?

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
I was actually hoping he'd walk him. Much better chance of getting another out from the next guy.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:45 AM
Some real dumb managing by Dusty this inning.

I don't blame Dusty Masset didn't do his job. You gotta throw more strikes than that

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:46 AM
Miguel was very animated down the line.

Hey Miguel, congrats. Your team is still in second place even if you do win tonight. Sucka!

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:46 AM
Anytime you walk that malignant dwarf on four pitches you deserve to lose.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:46 AM
I don't blame Dusty Masset didn't do his job. You gotta throw more strikes than that
No reason to use Rhodes. None.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:47 AM
No reason to use Rhodes. None.

Agreed. I love the guy, but he is done.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:47 AM
No reason to use Rhodes. None.

He's one of the best relievers the Reds have. The Reds are still trying to, you know, clinch the division. That's not a good reason?

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:47 AM
He's one of the best relievers the Reds have. The Reds are still trying to, you know, clinch the division. That's not a good reason?
Chapman in the 7th, Masset in the 8th.

He's not as good as either of them.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:47 AM
No reason to use Rhodes. None.

Rhodes pitched better than Masset

Cedric
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Walk Eckstein you deserve to lose. Masset is more to blame than Rhodes.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Three pitches.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
That would have been nice to start the inning.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Chapman gonna be a hell of a weapon against those Philly lefties.

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Well, that was impressive.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
Great plan, let's bring in our absolutely unhittable pitcher to face the guy up after the game is decided.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
Three pitches.
102, 102, 103. Adrian couldn't touch them. :D

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
:cool:
Great plan, let's bring in our absolutely unhittable pitcher to face the guy up after the game is decided.

The game is decided? Hindsight is 20/20 folks...

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
Wow. Ardolis throwing GAS. 102-102-103 per Gameday. Adrian Ks....

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
:cool:

The game is decided? Hindsight is 20/20 folks...

Seen Bell and Adams' stats this year? They don't have Cordero down there.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
Great plan, let's bring in our absolutely unhittable pitcher to face the guy up after the game is decided.

Tonight, I don't think it's decided. Just a hunch. Adams and Bell are as tough as it gets, though.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
I've been in Dusty's corner, but he pushed some odd buttons tonight.

Hope they can come back. Not gonna be easy against that bully.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
Tonight, I don't think it's decided. Just a hunch. Adams and Bell are as tough as it gets, though.

Rhodes shouldn't be in a close game at this point. Dusty blew this game.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
Seen Bell and Adams' stats this year?

Well folks had the Reds not scoring another run after the 5th, so I'll just wait and watch the game. Can't blame Dusty for everything. Chapman hasn't been automatic either...

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
Face it. Chapman will have to pitch a lot of innings if we're going to be successful in the postseason. Dusty will have to pitch him multiple innings

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
:cool:

The game is decided? Hindsight is 20/20 folks...
Go back twenty minutes and you'll see me saying using Chapman and Masset in the last two innings.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Rhodes shouldn't be in a close game at this point. Dusty blew this game.

Agreed. I believe my strategy is well documented in this thread long before we coughed this up.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Go back twenty minutes and you'll see me saying using Chapman and Masset in the last two innings.

Everyone agrees except the guy that matters. It's just a great opportunity possibly lost.

CTA513
09-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Walk Eckstein you deserve to lose. Masset is more to blame than Rhodes.


Neither got the job done.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Go back twenty minutes and you'll see me saying using Chapman and Masset in the last two innings.

If Rhodes would have retired his first two batters, would you have admitted that you were mistaken and Dusty got it right?

VR
09-25-2010, 12:51 AM
Gomes and his .700 OpS vs righties. Just plain stubborn, no other reason.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:52 AM
If Rhodes would have retired his first two batters, would you have admitted that you were mistaken and Dusty got it right?
I probably would have said "Dusty knows more than I do" whenever something like that happens.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:52 AM
Holy crap. Gomes with a hit.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
I probably would have said "Dusty knows more than I do" whenever something like that happens.

Fair enough...

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
2.05 ERA
1.01 WHIP
47 Ks / 16 BBs
52 innings
4 HRA

Someone needs to get that dud out off the roster, it seems judging by this thread. I have never seen so much hostility for trusting one of the best pitchers the Reds have.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games... The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games... The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games LOL!!!!

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
I'd pinch-run Leake.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
I can't get mad about Dusty. He has been great overall. He is just stubborn and wants to give Rhodes a chance to get back into form.

His loyalty might ruin this team later though. He has earned that right.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:53 AM
2.05 ERA
1.01 WHIP
47 Ks / 16 BBs
52 innings
4 HRA

Someone needs to get that dud out off the roster, it seems judging by this thread. I have never seen so much hostility for trusting one of the best pitchers the Reds have.
There were better options, period.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:54 AM
I'd pinch-run Leake.
Gomes isn't slow enough to consider that.

Besides, if you PR you PR Heisey.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:54 AM
2.05 ERA
1.01 WHIP
47 Ks / 16 BBs
52 innings
4 HRA

Someone needs to get that dud out off the roster, it seems judging by this thread. I have never seen so much hostility for trusting one of the best pitchers the Reds have.It's not his numbers, it's his health.

I don't think it's wise to bring him in a close game right now until they know he's rounded back into good health/form.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:54 AM
There were better options, period.

You people have gone mad.

Are you aware that Rhodes has given up runs in only 2 of his last 20 appearances prior to this evening?

Good grief.

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:55 AM
You people have gone mad.

Are you aware that Rhodes has given up runs in only 2 of his last 20 appearances prior to this evening?

Good grief.
Chapman or Rhodes

take your pick.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:56 AM
#$#%#$@ GIDP

Ugh. 2 out.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 12:56 AM
Only thing you couldn't do there.

Meanwhile we throw four wide ones to David Freaking Eckstein.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:57 AM
Chapman or Rhodes

take your pick.

Given who was coming up, I'd actually want Chapman in there facing the middle of the Padres lineup, not the bottom of it.

So let me get this straight, you want him coming in during a low-leverage situation with 8-9-1 due up rather than save him for possibly needing to face, you know, one of the best hitters in baseball?

Might want to rethink that.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 12:57 AM
Only thing you couldn't do there.

Meanwhile we throw four wide ones to David Freaking Eckstein.

Couldn't agree more. Our supposed best overall pitcher walked David Eckstein on 4 pitches. That is scary.

HokieRed
09-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Speaking of Dusty damage, any chance he'll ever get Phillips out of the leadoff spot?

reds44
09-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Given who was coming up, I'd actually want Chapman in there facing the middle of the Padres lineup, not the bottom of it.

So let me get this straight, you want him coming in during a low-leverage situation with 8-9-1 due up rather than save him for possibly needing to face, you know, one of the best hitters in baseball?

Might want to rethink that.
Then bring Masset in for the 7th and Chapman in for the 8th.

This one isn't hard.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 12:58 AM
I see a repeat of the Philly series; losing a lot of close , hard fought games. Hope I'm wrong

The Operator
09-25-2010, 12:59 AM
I think that's the ballgame, guys.

We ain't tying it up on Heath Bell.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 12:59 AM
Then bring Masset in for the 7th and Chapman in for the 8th.

This one isn't hard.

It wasn't easy either. You're making something extremely subjective into some no-brainer, "only one way to do it" subject.

Rhodes has given up runs in only 2 of his prior 20 appearances. If that can't be trusted, what can?

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:00 AM
It wasn't easy either. You're making something extremely subjective into some no-brainer, "only one way to do it" subject.

Rhodes has given up runs in only 2 of his prior 20 appearances. If that can't be trusted, what can?
Man with 104 MPH fastball.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 01:00 AM
I think that's the ballgame, guys.

We ain't tying it up on Heath Bell.

It was the ballgame after the 5th inning remember? I know it's not fun when the Reds lose and folks just like to take out some frustration but these threads are very tough to read when the Reds aren't winning...

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:00 AM
Is Votto going to play tomorrow? Does anyone know if that is the plan?

PuffyPig
09-25-2010, 01:01 AM
Go back twenty minutes and you'll see me saying using Chapman and Masset in the last two innings.

Masset faced two batter and both got on.

So, its not like having Masset pitch the 8th was a sure bet.

Rhodes gave up his first runs in September, in his 6th game.

It's not like he's been lit up recently.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:01 AM
Man with 104 MPH fastball.

Chapman is good, but the kid is not perfect. He is relying too heavily on two pitches right now, and that's not always a good recipe. You can't expect him to be perfect for every frickin situation.

Rhodes helped get this team to this point. He's been the most consistent and most reliable pitcher the Reds have had all season long. And yet you want to burn him and his manager in effigy for being used in an important situation that actually favored his success? Wow. Just wow.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:01 AM
The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games... The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games... The Cardinals are going to lose 3 games LOL!!!!

That may be what it takes...I'm only about half kidding. This team has been a buzzkill the last three weeks. Fortunately the Cardinals have had bigger problems and done most of the heavy lifting on the magic number for us.

Horrible sequence of pen usage and execution in the 7th inning.

Wow, thought that one was gone.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:02 AM
That's out of most parks.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:02 AM
Masset faced two batter and both got on.

So, its not like having Masset pitch the 8th was a sure bet.

Rhodes gave up his first runs in September, in his 6th game.

It's not like he's been lit up recently.
Masset will struggle with control sometimes. That's why you have him start the inning.

Same goes with Chapman.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 01:02 AM
Is Votto going to play tomorrow? Does anyone know if that is the plan?

He's day to day. There is no plan. It all depends how he feels

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 01:02 AM
That's out of most parks.

including Zion.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:02 AM
Chapman is good, but the kid is not perfect. He is relying too heavily on two pitches right now, and that's not always a good recipe. You can't expect him to be perfect for every frickin situation.

Rhodes helped get this team to this point. He's been the most consistent and most reliable pitcher the Reds have had all season long. And yet you want to burn him and his manager in effigy for being used in an important situation that actually favored his success? Wow. Just wow.
He's a left handed relief pitcher who throws 104 MPH and has a great slider.

That's all he needs.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 01:03 AM
Masset will struggle with control sometimes. That's why you have him start the inning.

Same goes with Chapman.

Of course guys would rather come in with nobody on than with guys on base. Masset has been brought in on numerous occassions with guys on base and got out of the jam and will continue to do so in the future...

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:03 AM
This Reds lineup is borderline offensive without Votto. The fact they were an Eckstein walk away from probably winning is a good sign, IMO.

I'm not panicking.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:03 AM
2.05 ERA
1.01 WHIP
47 Ks / 16 BBs
52 innings
4 HRA

Someone needs to get that dud out off the roster, it seems judging by this thread. I have never seen so much hostility for trusting one of the best pitchers the Reds have.

He's been incredible, but Arthur is basically a one legged cripple right now. Nobody who loves this team will disparage what Rhodes has meant this year. But, He is not prepared to get hitters out late in the game right now, given his physical condition. Dusty has done everything he can to rest him and try to recapture the magic. It just isn't happening. Arthur's role belongs to Bill Bray or Chapman now. He probably doesn't even belong on the postseason roster. Dusty has to stop looking at this as a Hollywood movie and play it like an episode of cops, complete with the domestic violence and peripheral ugliness.

Tonight's game was there for the taking if we just had played the last three innings correctly. LaRussa has a ton of faults, but one of his strengths is assigning the right relief pitchers to roles late in ballgames. He does it with a cold, hard efficiency that appears to be lost on our skipper, the "player's manager".

How sweet would it be to beat that lard a** Heath Bell in the top of the 9th? I know, not likely.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:04 AM
Masset will struggle with control sometimes. That's why you have him start the inning.

Same goes with Chapman.

Wait a minute...

Now you're saying they should have been used because you can't trust them with control in tighter situations? Just a minute ago it was that you can't trust Rhodes.

I'm confused. Is it you don't trust Rhodes or you're upset at Dusty because you think Masset & Chapman can't be trusted with men on?

I'm dazed, too.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:04 AM
105 MPH

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:04 AM
105! Love the crowd reaction.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:04 AM
Wait a minute...

Now you're saying they should have been used because you can't trust them with control in tighter situations? Just a minute ago it was that you can't trust Rhodes.

I'm confused. Is it you don't trust Rhodes or you're upset at Dusty because you think Masset & Chapman can't be trusted with men on?

I'm dazed, too.
No. You're twisting arguments to fit what you want to say.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 01:05 AM
Wow!

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 01:05 AM
105!:cool:

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:05 AM
He's a left handed relief pitcher who throws 104 MPH and has a great slider.

That's all he needs.

Actually it's not all he needs. If you don't get ahead of batters, that's a recipe for disaster - especially on days you're not getting strikes called or the slider isn't being controlled. In fact, when that happens, it's actually scary not having a third pitch.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:05 AM
Man with fastball strike other man out.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Actually it's not all he needs. If you don't get ahead of batters, that's a recipe for disaster - especially on days you're not getting strikes called or the slider isn't being controlled. In fact, when that happens, it's actually scary not having a third pitch.
Yeah when Chapman starts struggling you let me know.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Have you folks ever seen a 105 MPH pitch before? Ever?

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Is Votto available to PH?

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Have you folks ever seen a 105 MPH pitch before? Ever?
From Chapman in Louisville lol

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
No. You're twisting arguments to fit what you want to say.

No I'm not. First you're upset at Dusty trusting Rhodes when you said, "there are better options."

Then you said that they struggle with control and need to start the inning.

Those two statements do not reconcile. If they struggle with control, then they are perhaps not better options.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:07 AM
Is Votto available to PH?

The question of the night. I love Joey, but he is toying with his MVP award lately.

Sea Ray
09-25-2010, 01:07 AM
From Chapman in Louisville lol

Did he really get clocked at 105 in Louisville?

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:08 AM
Did he really get clocked at 105 in Louisville?

Indeed.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:08 AM
You know, I think it just hit me how good Chapman is. Can he really be throwing this fast consistently? Is this physically possible?

dougdirt
09-25-2010, 01:08 AM
Did he really get clocked at 105 in Louisville?

Yes. Also just hit 105.1 via Pitch F/X.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
No I'm not. First you're upset at Dusty trusting Rhodes when you said, "there are better options."

Then you said that they struggle with control and need to start the inning.

Those two statements do not reconcile. If they struggle with control, then they are perhaps not better options.
Alright lets take this one slow.

Rhodes=control pitcher
Masset/Chapman=power pitcher

You bring Masset in with 2 guys on, it takes him a batter to find his arm slot, he walks the first guy on 4 pitches. Second guy he goes 3-2 on and the bases being loaded forces him to throw a fastball.

If it's a guy on 1st instead of the bases loaded it opens up another pitch.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Chapman not used to gettng a 4th out... walks Torrealba on 4 straight balls.

I bet Headley's excited he gets to face him. :p:

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Yeah when Chapman starts struggling you let me know.

Did you not just see his game in Houston? He didn't record an out, gave up 3 hits and a walk.

Did you not see him the game in Colorado? Gave up 3 hits in a third of an inning.

He's been dominant so far, but he's also had moments of inconsistency, as a lot of pitchers do.

kaldaniels
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Yes. Also just hit 105.1 via Pitch F/X.

Fastest in the bigs since when? Anyone?

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Why nothing offspeed at all? Is he trying to set a record for most 100+ pitches in a row?

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Fastest in the bigs since when? Anyone?

Ever recorded, IIRC.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Man they take some late time outs here in SD.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
Did you not just see his game in Houston? He didn't record an out, gave up 3 hits and a walk.

Did you not see him the game in Colorado? Gave up 3 hits in a third of an inning.

He's been dominant so far, but he's also had moments of inconsistency, as a lot of pitchers do.
He's not Jesus Christ. He's going to give up runs.

A bad outing and "struggling" are two different things.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 01:09 AM
For what it's worth, Rhodes' WHIP over the last month is 2.2 or thereabouts. Only six appearances, but it's not like this is the first time he's struggled to keep guys off the basepaths recently. His ERA is August was close to 6.

Not the most sophisticated statistics but it does show he's been less reliable since the ASB, which not coincidentally is when we started hearing about how bad his foot was.

Reds Freak
09-25-2010, 01:10 AM
He's not Jesus Christ. He's going to give up runs.

A bad outing and "struggling" are two different things.

Guys, can we call a truce? I think this argument has run its course...

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:10 AM
And certainly no one has ever pitched like this pitch after pitch before. We're watching history, folks.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
Throw this guy a slider and he'll have no chance.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
How bout a slider?

dougdirt
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
Fastest in the bigs since when? Anyone?

To my knowledge, that is the fastest pitch ever recorded. By quite a bit. I don't think we have ever seen anyone else at 104 before. Joel Zumaya did hit 103.9 I believe.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
To my knowledge, that is the fastest pitch ever recorded. By quite a bit. I don't think we have ever seen anyone else at 104 before. Joel Zumaya did hit 103.9 I believe.

If 105 was real that was the fastest one ever recorded.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
He's been incredible, but Arthur is basically a one legged cripple right now. Nobody who loves this team will disparage what Rhodes has meant this year. But, He is not prepared to get hitters out late in the game right now, given his physical condition. Dusty has done everything he can to rest him and try to recapture the magic. It just isn't happening. Arthur's role belongs to Bill Bray or Chapman now. He probably doesn't even belong on the postseason roster. Dusty has to stop looking at this as a Hollywood movie and play it like an episode of cops, complete with the domestic violence and peripheral ugliness.

Tonight's game was there for the taking if we just had played the last three innings correctly. LaRussa has a ton of faults, but one of his strengths is assigning the right relief pitchers to roles late in ballgames. He does it with a cold, hard efficiency that appears to be lost on our skipper, the "player's manager".

How sweet would it be to beat that lard a** Heath Bell in the top of the 9th? I know, not likely.

I think you're overstating the extent of his dropping production. I'm not saying he's healthy--I don't think he is.

However... in only 2 of the previous 20 appearances did he give up runs. One for every 10 games. It's serious exaggeration to say he's not prepared to get hitters out right now.

WebScorpion
09-25-2010, 01:11 AM
To my knowledge, that is the fastest pitch ever recorded. By quite a bit. I don't think we have ever seen anyone else at 104 before. Joel Zumaya did hit 103.9 I believe.
I thought Zumaya was recorded at 105.4 at some point.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Does Hanigan know what a slider is? Seriously.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:12 AM
And certainly no one has ever pitched like this pitch after pitch before. We're watching history, folks.

And yet, nobody cares unless the Reds win this ballgame.

Oxilon
09-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Has Chapman thrown anything besides a fastball yet? Drop the slider on the righty already.

sivman17
09-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Does Hanigan know what a slider is? Seriously.

Chapman shook him off last time.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Has Chapman thrown anything besides a fastball yet? Drop the slider on the righty already.
25 pitches.
25 fastballs.

And he gave up 1 baserunner and no hits lol

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
26 pitches, all 100 mph or faster....WOW!

dougdirt
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
I thought Zumaya was recorded at 105.4 at some point.

I don't recall seeing that one, at least not via Pitch F/X. But now you have me heading to look for it.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
Let's get the kid a win now. I want to see Joey pinch hit.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
He's not Jesus Christ. He's going to give up runs.

A bad outing and "struggling" are two different things.

Then what do you call giving up runs in only 2 of your previous 20 appearances? Because you're knocking Rhodes for that, and I can't bring up a few appearances from Chapman's 10 inning sample size.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
Then what do you call giving up runs in only 2 of your previous 20 appearances? Because you're knocking Rhodes for that, and I can't bring up a few appearances from Chapman's 10 inning sample size.
I give up.

I understood you the first 47 times you said Rhodes has given up runs in 2 over his last 20 appearances.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:14 AM
25 pitches.
25 fastballs.

And he gave up 1 baserunner and no hits lol

Aroldis could have done this in his sleep. He most certainly could have done it in the 7th inning in his sleep too. Dusty has a licence to play 7 inning baseball games, and seems to have a problem with it. That is a problem going into the postseason.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:14 AM
Votto on deck.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:14 AM
I'm worried that Rhodes won't be physically able to go in the playoffs. He deserves this.

Kc61
09-25-2010, 01:14 AM
In retrospect, Dusty should have just let Ondrusek stay in the game.

Rhodes was a risky choice because he's not pitched much lately.

But overall, can't blame Dusty for using Rhodes and Masset there. They just didn't have it tonight.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:15 AM
Looks like we're gonna see Votto.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
No George, Hoffman did not come out to "For Whom The Bell Tolls"

Twas "Hell's Bells"

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Heath Bell is a fat slob who owes most of his success from the tempo in which he works. If a hitter ever called time out on him, he would soil his pants.

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Should be easy for Hanigan to hit 95 after catching 105....

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Come on Joey.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
I give up.

I understood you the first 47 times you said Rhodes has given up runs in 2 over his last 20 appearances.

Good. Then my point was received on how silly it sounds to knock a manager for using him.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Back of the pen is a mess right now. Masset has been shaky, Rhodes is obviously not a 100% and CoCo is a gaas can. Thank goodness the magic number is three. Nothing has been easy for this team for the month of Sept.

Gotta have Votto back in the lineup or this is one ugly and duct taped ship we're sailing.

A baserunner against Bell. Woo-hoo.

sivman17
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
pinch runner? please?

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Padres really flashing the leather tonight.

Runner on, 0 out.

Reds Fanatic
09-25-2010, 01:17 AM
Good start as Hanigan reaches on a ball off Gonzalez's glove.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:17 AM
Good. Then my point was received on how silly it sounds to knock a manager for using him.
It wasn't, but I'm not arguing anymore.

Reds Fanatic
09-25-2010, 01:17 AM
Bloomquist is pinch running.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:17 AM
No George, Hoffman did not come out to "For Whom The Bell Tolls"

Twas "Hell's Bells"

I thought it was "The Old Man and the Sea."

CTA513
09-25-2010, 01:17 AM
Heath Bell is a fat slob who owes most of his success from the tempo in which he works. If a hitter ever called time out on him, he would soil his pants.


:bowrofl:

Red in Chicago
09-25-2010, 01:18 AM
It wasn't, but I'm not arguing anymore.

Honestly both of you give it a rest.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:18 AM
Dear God Joey SWING

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:18 AM
Not the greatest AB from Joey right there.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:18 AM
:bowrofl:

The problem is, nobody ever calls timeout.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:18 AM
Dear God Joey SWING

Are you happy now? :(

OesterPoster
09-25-2010, 01:19 AM
He looked out of it there.

reds44
09-25-2010, 01:19 AM
Are you happy now? :(
It was a strike lol

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:19 AM
Hopefully Votto makes it back by Sunday. He looked lost and physically exhausted.

WVRedsFan
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Man, that was quick.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Routine fly ball - "Hit pretty good to CF, but he's got a beat on it"

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Amazing how the air just kills the balls out in SD. Phillips actually hit one on the screws and it was a routine out.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Playing here is like playing wiffle ball in a wind tunnel. I hate this venue.

mbgrayson
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Phillips hasn't homered for over a month now... Injury took it's toll.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
Amazing how the air just kills the balls out in SD. Phillips actually hit one on the screws and it was a routine out.

Yeah, I was thinking how much I hate playing in San Diego.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:21 AM
Playing here is like playing wiffle ball in a wind tunnel. I hate this venue.

Which makes the two 7th inning walks just that much more grating...

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:21 AM
I hate the NL West, period. Goofy ballparks and annoying teams.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:21 AM
Okay, let it be Sunday.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:21 AM
disgusting loss. Should have been a W... Go get 'em tomorrow

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
Which makes the two 7th inning walks just that much more grating...Oh, and one was to... David Eckstein. The DANGER BAT!

oneupper
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
What's with Tejada? you'd figure it was Game 7 of the WS.

marcshoe
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
I hate the NL West, period. Goofy ballparks and annoying teams.

Yes. I hate the Rockies' park and their uniforms, fwiw.

Kc61
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
disgusting loss. Should have been a W... Go get 'em tomorrow

Rhodes and Masset. C'mon.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
Should have been a win. Oh well. Thank God it doesn't matter if we lose all three of these.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 01:22 AM
Oh, and one was to... David Eckstein. The DANGER BAT!

You don't pitch to that guy in pressure situations, you just can't. Too dangerous.

They should staple Masset's eyes open Clockwork Orange-style and make him watch that at-bat for four or five hours.

WVRedsFan
09-25-2010, 01:23 AM
Game over. Padres are fighting for their lives. It's gonna be tough to beat them. Our luck.

PuffyPig
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
disgusting loss. Should have been a W... Go get 'em tomorrow

How quickly everyone forgets the two extremely lucky runs we scored to take the lead.

Also, I'm not sure it should always be a win when you have the lead in the 6th inning.

You can say many things about tonights game, but saying that it should have been a W is not one of them.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
Should have been a win. Oh well. Thank God it doesn't matter if we lose all three of these.

It matters a lot. This team needs to avoid the Phillies at all cost.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
What's with Tejada? you'd figure it was Game 7 of the WS.

New Life. He probably thought he would have been in prison by now, but here he is in a penant race...

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
What's with Tejada? you'd figure it was Game 7 of the WS.He pulled the same crap going down the line after his hit.

Memo to Miguel - you're on a second place team that has nosedived for a month.

dsmith421
09-25-2010, 01:24 AM
I endorse knocking Tejada down tomorrow.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:25 AM
He pulled the same crap going down the line after his hit.

Memo to Miguel - you're on a second place team that has nosedived for a month.

He's just another idiot cheater. Forget about him. Karma will get him.

Brutus
09-25-2010, 01:25 AM
Should have been a win. Oh well. Thank God it doesn't matter if we lose all three of these.

It matters if the Reds don't want to be offered up as sacrifices to the baseball Gods and their begotten sons, the Philadelphia Phillies in the first round.

Plus, I don't like the thought of getting swept in San Diego and seeing St. Louis with any shot, no matter how remote.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:25 AM
Game over. Padres are fighting for their lives. It's gonna be tough to beat them. Our luck.

Of course, they've been fighting for their lives most of September and aren't the '27 Yankees.

I love this team, but the injuries and pen meltdown are painful. By far the worst baseball of the year being played by the good guys over the last three weeks. They are gutting it out, but just aren't a very good team right now. Got a week+ to get healthier and out of the funk.

BuckeyeRedleg
09-25-2010, 01:26 AM
No team in the West can be more annoying than the Giants, but yeah I hate them all.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:26 AM
I endorse knocking Tejada down tomorrow.I'd knock down Gonzales too for that little league play he tried on Stubbs earlier in the game.

Teams like this just annoy me to no end. And you know if they make the postseason, all we're going to hear about is Tejada this, Eckstein that. BARF.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:27 AM
How quickly everyone forgets the two extremely lucky runs we scored to take the lead.

Also, I'm not sure it should always be a win when you have the lead in the 6th inning.

You can say many things about tonights game, but saying that it should have been a W is not one of them.

Ok, Mr. Genius. You're right a 3-2 lead in the 7th with a fully rested pen in a dead ballpark. Gotta win those ones buddy...

guttle11
09-25-2010, 01:27 AM
Have to be honest, Dusty bricked tonight. Ondrusek was rolling, no reason to take him out with the bases empty. None at all. Textbook LaRussa over-managing. No reason to put in a guy, Votto or not, that hasn't been out of bed in three days for a non-RBI at bat, when the obvious call is to bunt. Heath Bell is really good. Get a guy on second and play for just one hit tying the game. Odds of getting three hits or a dinger off Bell in that park...'taint happening.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:29 AM
It matters a lot. This team needs to avoid the Phillies at all cost.

The Reds are all good just by winning the division. Acting like they need to position themselves in some other way is ridiculous. The Phillies might be the best team in the postseason from either league, so who is to say it would not be better to knock them off in the first round than the second? Beggars cannot be choosers about how they get in. Just that they do get in. People that act like a big shot as if we have been here in the last 15 years look like clowns right about now.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:29 AM
Pirates lost their 100th game tonight.

I feel bad for their fans, what's left of them.

oregonred
09-25-2010, 01:30 AM
Pirates lost their 100th game tonight.

I feel bad for their fans, what's left of them.

Nah, they've got the Steelers and Penguins to soften the blow every year.

The Operator
09-25-2010, 01:30 AM
Nah, they've got the Steelers and Penguins to soften the blow every year.You raise a good point.

Some of those fans may double as Steeler fans. Sympathy revoked. :cool:

BuckeyeRedleg
09-25-2010, 01:32 AM
A few weeks ago, I figured this team was a lock for 90 wins. Not so much anymore.

Forget homefield in the 1st round. But, I guess at least they celebrate the division at home next week.

Phhhl
09-25-2010, 01:35 AM
Pirates lost their 100th game tonight.

I feel bad for their fans, what's left of them.

Bud Selig wants to outsource franchises like this to South America and Asia. Incidentally, he wouldn't mind sending the Reds to Puerto Rico, if they could draw more than 15,000 people a game. We had better sell out these playoff games.

Cedric
09-25-2010, 01:36 AM
A few weeks ago, I figured this team was a lock for 90 wins. Not so much anymore.

Forget homefield in the 1st round. But, I guess at least they celebrate the division at home next week.

The Reds are flawed and probably the worst team to make the playoffs.

I'm over that. I'm just thrilled with the year and hoping for a miracle..