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View Full Version : Uh, could we follow this up a bit?



malcontent
09-27-2010, 03:19 PM
Scott Miller (CBS)

By far the best thing that's happened to the Reds in quite some time came in the sixth inning when Brandon Phillips drove a Clayton Richard pitch off of the right-field foul pole, the All-Star's first homer in 97 plate appearances since suffering a badly bruised right hand when he was drilled with a pitch in San Francisco.

"I think I'm going to get another X-ray after the season," Phillips said. "It still hurts real bad. I really think something may be cracked in there."

Based on BP's much earlier comments and the fact that this thing has taken forever to heal, I thought that there might be a hairline fracture that the Reds' medical people didn't pick up.

Maybe they could actually take another X-ray???

Or clarify what the situation actually is....?

:confused:

brm7675
09-27-2010, 03:24 PM
Scott Miller (CBS)

By far the best thing that's happened to the Reds in quite some time came in the sixth inning when Brandon Phillips drove a Clayton Richard pitch off of the right-field foul pole, the All-Star's first homer in 97 plate appearances since suffering a badly bruised right hand when he was drilled with a pitch in San Francisco.

"I think I'm going to get another X-ray after the season," Phillips said. "It still hurts real bad. I really think something may be cracked in there."

Based on BP's much earlier comments and the fact that this thing has taken forever to heal, I thought that there might be a hairline fracture that the Reds' medical people didn't pick up.

Maybe they could actually take another X-ray???

Or clarify what the situation actually is....?

:confused:

I would advise him to see another doctor as the Reds employ what have to be some of the worse sports doc's in the business.:thumbdown

AWA85
09-27-2010, 03:33 PM
Saw him in Milwaukee and asked how the hand was feeling... and he let out a few words that can't be said on here of how it feels. Either way, you have to admire him for playing it out.

brm7675
09-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Saw him in Milwaukee and asked how the hand was feeling... and he let out a few words that can't be said on here of how it feels. Either way, you have to admire him for playing it out.

Why? I would "admire" him more if he was straight up and truthful. Are we a better team with a damaged Phillips over a healthy team with either Janish or Valeika at 2nd.

malcontent
09-27-2010, 05:34 PM
I would advise him to see another doctor as the Reds employ what have to be some of the worse sports doc's in the business.:thumbdown
You may be right about that. Scary thought.

It has been Baker's decision to play (and leadoff with) an obviously compromised BP.

Phillips has been open about the condition of the hand. I also don't admire his "gutting it out" when he and everyone else knows that he's hurting the team (and potentially delaying the healing process) by playing.

But Baker fills out the lineup card.

IMO, if I'm Jocketty or Baker, I don't disregard BP's comments. They both have done just that up till now.

mlh1981
09-27-2010, 05:46 PM
I've said this in other threads.....

His final numbers, as a result of this, won't be a true reflection of the type of season he's really had.

malcontent
09-27-2010, 06:25 PM
I've said this in other threads.....

His final numbers, as a result of this, won't be a true reflection of the type of season he's really had.
Absolutely not.

Baker certainly has done no favors for BP, or the team for that matter, by playing him. Baker said that he wasn't hurt badly enough to DL, but that's just crazy talk given the offensive tailspin Phillips went into and BP's own comments about the injury.

Again, WJ bears some of the responsiblity in this, IMO.

If the Cardinals hadn't decided to take the rest of the year off, this could have been a huge fiasco.

Helms1
09-27-2010, 06:32 PM
Hands take a long time to heal in the best of circumstances. And I really wonder why you would not repeat a plain xray, or do a bone scan or MRI on a multi-million dollar athlete and the only thing that makes sense, especially if that quote is accurate, is that Phillips refuses to do a follow up or more specific test because he wants to play and is convinced that the worst case is that if he plays is that it will heal without complication in the off-season. I'll bet the medical staff has recommended a follow up and BP said "no thanks, it may be cracked and I'm gonna play".

bshall2105
09-27-2010, 07:06 PM
Why? I would "admire" him more if he was straight up and truthful. Are we a better team with a damaged Phillips over a healthy team with either Janish or Valeika at 2nd.

He is being straight up and truthful. He's telling everyone that his hand is in severe pain. He doesn't make the decision to play, the doctors and the coaches do.

Helms1
09-27-2010, 07:12 PM
He is being straight up and truthful. He's telling everyone that his hand is in severe pain. He doesn't make the decision to play, the doctors and the coaches do.

You sure? Previous xray negative, post season looming, "it does not hurt that much coach, and it's getting better. Come on skipper, it's the post season, I'm coming out of it, and I've been working my whole life for this. It will be OK, I want to play". Heard similar before all the time on a much smaller and less expensive, no doubt, level. If this is the scenario, then the staff is trying to accommodate a star player who is probably better than most with a hurt hand.

Vottomatic
09-27-2010, 07:13 PM
Dr. Tim Kremchek is taking a beating right now.

I'd rather have a healthy Valaika playing second base right now.

bshall2105
09-27-2010, 07:16 PM
You sure? Previous xray negative, post season looming, "it does not hurt that much coach, and it's getting better. Come on skipper, it's the post season, I'm coming out of it, and I've been working my whole life for this. It will be OK, I want to play". Heard similar before all the time on a much smaller and less expensive, no doubt, level. If this is the scenario, then the staff is trying to accommodate a star player who is probably better than most with a hurt hand.

If he's saying it to fans and media I don't know why he'd lie to the manager since he would just find out about it anyway. I'd expect anybody to say those things though, it's what competitors do.

Helms1
09-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Dr. Tim Kremchek is taking a beating right now.

I'd rather have a healthy Valaika playing second base right now.

I'll bet the doc is doing the best he can do for everyone involved. Healthy Valaika vs a hurt Phillips, well this week maybe will give us a clue about that, but how the heck do you know who is going to hit in the post season? I go with the vet if it is about equal, he deserves the shot and only he knows how much it is bothering him. However, if my assumptions are close, I would suggest BP stop talking so much and suck it up.

UPRedsFan
09-27-2010, 07:27 PM
It's not uncommon for an xray to miss small fractures in the foot or hand.

If there is a fracture that only a bone scan could detect, it doesn't seem to be hurting his defense. We're not going to beat anyone with offense in the post season. We're going to have to win 3-2 and 2-1 and we need Brandon at 2nd base to help the pitchers!

malcontent
09-27-2010, 09:30 PM
Hands take a long time to heal in the best of circumstances. And I really wonder why you would not repeat a plain xray, or do a bone scan or MRI on a multi-million dollar athlete and the only thing that makes sense, especially if that quote is accurate, is that Phillips refuses to do a follow up or more specific test because he wants to play and is convinced that the worst case is that if he plays is that it will heal without complication in the off-season. I'll bet the medical staff has recommended a follow up and BP said "no thanks, it may be cracked and I'm gonna play".
That's an interesting take that I hadn't really considered.

What I don't understand is why the Reds seem to have taken a Bill Belichick-like stance of being less than forthcoming on the nature/severity of the injury.

gilpdawg
09-28-2010, 07:59 AM
I would advise him to see another doctor as the Reds employ what have to be some of the worse sports doc's in the business.:thumbdown

No they don't. I'm a Colts fan. If you go on a Colts message board, people say the same thing there. I'm a Pacers fan, if you go on a Pacers board, people say the same thing there as well.

Here's the thing, the medical field isn't an exact science. Sometimes things don't show up on an x-ray or MRI, and then you get another one and it's there. You can never be 100% sure of something like that, short of cutting someone open and actually looking at it with your own eyes. It doesn't mean the Reds doctors are incompetent.

Helms1
09-28-2010, 09:15 AM
It's not uncommon for an xray to miss small fractures in the foot or hand.

Not to beat a dead horse, but it's not uncommon for a plain xray to miss a small fracture on the original film. Two week followup plain films pick up 90%of the missed fractures on the original, and MRIs approach 100% accuracy for bones. That is really the point, why would the medical staff NOT DO a followup on a multi-million dollar athlete whose career could be effected? I don't think they want that liability, and the Reds medical staff is good, contrary to some opinions.

The quote was Phillips said "I think I'm going to get another xray after the season" meaning to me he is the one calling the shots.

Girevik
09-28-2010, 10:17 AM
The quote was Phillips said "I think I'm going to get another xray after the season" meaning to me he is the one calling the shots.

I read that as "it doesn't matter if it's broken or not, because I'm not taking myself out of the lineup right now. we'll check it after we're done." I think the Reds could veto that if they wanted.

Helms1
09-28-2010, 10:24 AM
I read that as "it doesn't matter if it's broken or not, because I'm not taking myself out of the lineup right now. we'll check it after we're done." I think the Reds could veto that if they wanted.

Agreed, and I suspect the original xray being negative and I assume his exam is getting better, and I'll bet it is not a carpal bone but a lateral metacarpal that is low risk leads the staff to say "he is working through this, has the talent to make a big difference in the playoffs if he heats up, and plays great defense, so let's give him a shot" probably with a detailed note saying the risks and benefits were discussed. Anyone know if it was the side of his hand, in the middle?

malcontent
09-28-2010, 04:35 PM
Agreed, and I suspect the original xray being negative and I assume his exam is getting better, and I'll bet it is not a carpal bone but a lateral metacarpal that is low risk leads the staff to say "he is working through this, has the talent to make a big difference in the playoffs if he heats up, and plays great defense, so let's give him a shot" probably with a detailed note saying the risks and benefits were discussed. Anyone know if it was the side of his hand, in the middle?
If it is a lateral metacarpal, would continuing to play slow the healing process?

Helms1
09-28-2010, 04:49 PM
If it is a lateral metacarpal, would continuing to play slow the healing process?

Yes, and effect his swing, but if worse comes to worse it could be repaired in case of non union with little difference in recuperation over the winter. A calculated risk I suppose. If I remember correctly, it looked like a mid shaft 4th and 5th metacarpal injury, and those are the least likely to be missed on plain film and least likely to cause long term disability if alignment is not as good as it could be if immobilized from day 1. Of course, it could just be deep tissue bruising and swelling and the whole point be moot. Fun to think about I suppose.

757690
09-28-2010, 04:52 PM
I would advise him to see another doctor as the Reds employ what have to be some of the worse sports doc's in the business.:thumbdown

If that is the case, then why do many other teams send their players to Kremcheck for surgeries? He has a reputation of being one of the best in business, if not the best.

He does have a reputation, well earned, of underestimating a players injury to the press, but all teams do that. They don't want other teams knowing how hurt their players really are.

We don't know the facts here, nor should we, so there really is no need to speculate. It could be a missed diagnosis, or it could be simply that they know it won't get worse with regular play, and they need him for his defense, or it could be something completely different that we haven't thought of.

757690
09-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Yes, and effect his swing, but if worse comes to worse it could be repaired in case of non union with little difference in recuperation over the winter. A calculated risk I suppose. If I remember correctly, it looked like a mid shaft 4th and 5th metacarpal injury, and those are the least likely to be missed on plain film and least likely to cause long term disability if alignment is not as good as it could be if immobilized from day 1. Of course, it could just be deep tissue bruising and swelling and the whole point be moot. Fun to think about I suppose.

Thanks. Great info. Very helpful. Now about this rash I can't get rid of... ;)

Helms1
09-28-2010, 05:03 PM
Thanks. Great info. Very helpful. Now about this rash I can't get rid of... ;)

Kwell should work.