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brm7675
09-27-2010, 06:31 PM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?
Do you pick up the option on Bronson?
What do you do with Gomes?
What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?
What do you do with Chapman?

Stray
09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
I offer him a fair contract, the man deserves to be paid and locked up for a while.
Without a doubt I pick up Bronson's option
On the fence with Gomes. Either him or Nix will be back though.
The plan with Chapman has always been for him to be a starter, I see no reason why I would change that.

1990REDS
09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?

6 years 60 mill, see if he bites (he prolly wont but its worth a shot)


Do you pick up the option on Bronson?

I personally would but i wouldnt freak out if they didnt.


What do you do with Gomes?


If he has a option buy it out, if no option then see ya later.


What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?

Shortstop


What do you do with Chapman?

put him back as a starter. to much money invested in him for him to be a reliever.

gmt
09-27-2010, 06:43 PM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?
Take a chance on a multiyear deal in the $10MM per for 5 years range. More up front to cover his lower earning arb years.
Do you pick up the option on Bronson?
Yes. What else is out there for a one year rental that would have similar production.
What do you do with Gomes?
Re-up him for $1.75MM. Anyone else out there with better potential at that price?
What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?
Outfield depth.
What do you do with Chapman?
Teach him to throw an effective change-up. 85 mph is some pitcher's fastball. Imagine dropping 20 mph from one pitch to the next.

chettt
09-27-2010, 06:58 PM
Votto will get around $30 mil over 4 years

Pick up Arroyo's contract if answer to 4 does not work out

Pick up Gomes' option

#1 Need - ACE - Offer Seattle Yonder, Phillips & Matt Maloney for King Felix

Chapman? - stays in the bullpen one more year

bshall2105
09-27-2010, 07:00 PM
First you offer Joey whatever it takes.
Then you pick up Bronson's option.
Then you tell Jonny Gomes he's no longer needed.
Then you fill the biggest problem, outfield depth with Joey Votto and his massive contract. This makes Yonder Alonso the starting first baseman for the Cincinatti Reds.
Finally you work Chapman back into being a starter this fall, and he'll eventually start in Louisville next year.

Vottomatic
09-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Votto will get around $30 mil over 4 years

Pick up Arroyo's contract if answer to 4 does not work out

Pick up Gomes' option

#1 Need - ACE - Offer Seattle Yonder, Phillips & Matt Maloney for King Felix

Chapman? - stays in the bullpen one more year

Good post.

1. Not sure how much he'll get. The know-it-alls on here will argue with any guess you make. So yes, sign him long term if you can, and do it now.
2. Agreed. Pick up Arroyo's option if you can't trade or sign an ace #1 starter.
3. If you can unload both Cordero ($12.5M - '11) and Phillips ($11M) in the offseason, then pick up Arroyo's option too. But it won't happen.
4. I love Gomes attitude, and what he brings as a teammate. But I'm not so sure Heisey couldn't bring as much at the plate and is definitely an improvement in the outfield. If you decide to start Heisey but bring Gomes back, you know Dusty will be sticking Gomes out there all the time anyway.
5. I've been pushing to trade for Felix since early July. Seattle is in rebuilding mode and Felix won't be helping them anytime soon. And he eventually makes upwards of $20M per season. Can we afford it? For a little while, maybe.
6. I'm in the minority. I keep Chapman in the bullpen and use him as a closer at times. Alot of eventual starters spent a few years in the bullpen. And we're loaded at starter - Bailey, Wood, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, and possibly Arroyo and/or a #1 starter that we'd trade for. Chapman's time will come. I just think it can wait for now.

brm7675
09-27-2010, 07:29 PM
First you offer Joey whatever it takes.
Then you pick up Bronson's option.
Then you tell Jonny Gomes he's no longer needed.
Then you fill the biggest problem, outfield depth with Joey Votto and his massive contract. This makes Yonder Alonso the starting first baseman for the Cincinatti Reds.
Finally you work Chapman back into being a starter this fall, and he'll eventually start in Louisville next year.

Why would you move your MVP to LF?

UPRedsFan
09-27-2010, 07:40 PM
Lock up Votto
Sign Arroyo
Can't afford Gomes - congratulate Heisey on the starting LF job
Try to teach Chapman to start - we know he can relieve
#1 priority is outfield depth but not at Gomes price. Somebody like Bloomquist. Is there a Miguel Cairo who can play outfield? Maybe it's Sappelt?

Kingspoint
09-27-2010, 07:53 PM
"You're the GM"

brm7675
09-27-2010, 07:58 PM
"You're the GM"

But why would you move your MVP to LF? He can't play the outfield, he is finally learning how to play first, why screw with that? Wouldn't it be easier just to go sign a LF?

Kingspoint
09-27-2010, 08:05 PM
But why would you move your MVP to LF? He can't play the outfield, he is finally learning how to play first, why screw with that? Wouldn't it be easier just to go sign a LF?

That ship has sailed. Votto needs to stay at 1B. He's turned into a plus-defender at 1st, is comfortable there, and is putting up MVP numbers. That needs to be left alone.

Like I said this last off-season, there's absolutely no reason, whatsoever, to sign an Outfielder and add him to the team.

The internal options are unlimited and all positive options.

I think Heisey, Stubbs and Bruce should all get 600+ AB's next season. If there's injuries to any of them, then we have Balentien, Danny Dorn, Alonso, and a half a dozen other choices to choose from.

I'd package Alonso in a deal this Winter along with our abundance of pitching to try to obtain a Top-10 Starting Pitcher. I'd sell the farm to get Felix Hernandez. (after posting this I read the other posts on this thread....I see others feel the same way about Hernandez)

Newman4
09-27-2010, 08:20 PM
Good post.

1. Not sure how much he'll get. The know-it-alls on here will argue with any guess you make. So yes, sign him long term if you can, and do it now.
2. Agreed. Pick up Arroyo's option if you can't trade or sign an ace #1 starter.
3. If you can unload both Cordero ($12.5M - '11) and Phillips ($11M) in the offseason, then pick up Arroyo's option too. But it won't happen.
4. I love Gomes attitude, and what he brings as a teammate. But I'm not so sure Heisey couldn't bring as much at the plate and is definitely an improvement in the outfield. If you decide to start Heisey but bring Gomes back, you know Dusty will be sticking Gomes out there all the time anyway.
5. I've been pushing to trade for Felix since early July. Seattle is in rebuilding mode and Felix won't be helping them anytime soon. And he eventually makes upwards of $20M per season. Can we afford it? For a little while, maybe.
6. I'm in the minority. I keep Chapman in the bullpen and use him as a closer at times. Alot of eventual starters spent a few years in the bullpen. And we're loaded at starter - Bailey, Wood, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, and possibly Arroyo and/or a #1 starter that we'd trade for. Chapman's time will come. I just think it can wait for now.

I like the thinking on Brandon Phillips. An $11 million sub .800 OPS player is not in the plans. As for the rest:

1. Yes, locking up Votto is a definite move. Well worth the contract IMO.
2. I have a little bit more difficulty with this one. The key for me is how much difference is there between Arroyo's expected production next season and that of Mike Leake, Homer Bailey or Edinson Volquez? Is it enough to justify a difference in salaries? To me, the answer is no - but, I might exercise the option and then trade him to fill another need. It's not that Arroyo at $11mil is terribly overpriced, just could be used to fill the LF void. Same with Brandon Phillips. Could his production be replaced by say Valaika or Todd Frazier much cheaper?
3. Drop Gomes. Again, production could be replaced cheaper.
4. Set yourself up for a long run with the core players financially.
5. Chapman is part of the long term future as a starter. Leave him there.

bshall2105
09-27-2010, 09:23 PM
Why would you move your MVP to LF?

We've all had this debate many times before. Some people feel he should move, some feel he shouldn't. It's clearly much safer to keep him at 1st, but why not take a risk and try to strike gold with Alonso?

Vottomatic
09-27-2010, 09:24 PM
While I agree about not bringing Gomes back, I disagree about him being expensive. He comes very cheap for a veteran, at $1.8M next season, or is it $1.2M? Either way, it's very cheap.

But I also agree that Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Dorn, Balentein can give you the same production.

As much as I like Gomes influence in the clubhouse and steadiness as a teammate, I think his stats are inflated by one month or month in a half of a hot tear, and the rest of the time, he has been mediocre with some really bad moments in the field defensively.

Really wish we could unload Coco and Phillips. Harang and Lincoln come off the books too.

bshall2105
09-27-2010, 09:29 PM
I really don't see why you would want to get rid of Phillips. I get that he's expensive, but I think this team, both offensively and defensively would look much worse without him. Maybe I just really love watching him play, but I just do not want to see him go. Who is going to play second when he's gone?

Vottomatic
09-27-2010, 09:33 PM
I really don't see why you would want to get rid of Phillips. I get that he's expensive, but I think this team, both offensively and defensively would look much worse without him. Maybe I just really love watching him play, but I just do not want to see him go. Who is going to play second when he's gone?

Get him to take a Rolen-like discount and maybe I'll think about it.

Not really happy about paying Brandon $11M per season when we're a small market team.

ol'Sparky
09-27-2010, 10:04 PM
http://o.aolcdn.com/art/sportsdata/mlb/080324/images/players/hs_8245.jpg

Kingspoint
09-27-2010, 10:06 PM
As far as 2nd Base?

Valaika should be the starter there for the next 4 seasons.

ol'Sparky
09-27-2010, 10:09 PM
As far as 2nd Base?

Valaika should be the starter there for the next 4 seasons.

trade brandon ?

BAKER12
09-27-2010, 10:59 PM
who will be the manager next year? will all the coaches stay? will Spy or Price get a managing job? lots of interesting decisions for this team

Roush's socks
09-28-2010, 12:19 AM
The Reds will have to figure out their starting pitching. With Leake returning plus the 5 who are starting right now, plus Chapman at mid-season potentially joining the rotation, that is 7 guys. Plus Lecure and Maloney as insurance. They could trade Maloney for a prospect.

Don't look for the Reds to make too many changes.

Kingspoint
09-28-2010, 01:00 AM
trade brandon ?

Yes.

---------------------------------

Brandon Phillips 2B

4 years/$27M (2008-11), plus 2012 club option

4 years/$27M (2008-11), plus 2012 club option

re-signed by Cincinnati 2/15/08 (avoided arbitration, $4.2M-$2.7M)
$0.75M signing bonus
08:$2.75M, 09:$4.75M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$11M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)
escalators based on awards may bring total package to $43.25M (2008 Gold Glove increases 2009 salary by $0.25M to $5M)
if traded, 2012 club option becomes mutual option

1 year/$0.4075M (2007)

renewed by Cincinnati 3/07 (split contract paying $196,200 in minors)

1 year (2006)
renewed by Cleveland 3/06

acquired by Cincinnati in trade from Cleveland after being DFA 4/06

1 year/$0.3168M (2005)
re-signed 2/05
split contract paying $162,000 in minors

1 year/$0.3009M (2003) 3/03
agent: Levinson brothers

ML service: 5.022

--------------------------------------------------

We may have to pay some of the '11 and/or '12 salary, but certainly one of the teams with a higher payroll can use him. If we have to toss in a prospect so that we don't have to pay as much of the salary, then whatever works. But, it's time to pass the torch to Valaika and use the savings gained at the 2nd Base position in other areas.

Tampa Red
09-28-2010, 01:45 AM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?
Do you pick up the option on Bronson?
What do you do with Gomes?
What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?
What do you do with Chapman?

1. Well, Ryan Howard won $10 mil in his first arbitration year two years ago so I'm not sure why some think Votto would get less, much less sign long term for $10m/per. The player is accepting a little bit less now for the security, not a lot less. 5 years/$70mil (10m/12m/14m/16m/18m) might get it done but might also be a bit low.

2. Bronson returns. Whether he would perform to his contract is somewhat irrelevant. He will give us 200+ innings and a team with young arms needs at least one surefire innings eater. Besides, I like Arroyo in his walk year. He's young enough to garner one more big contract and he will be motivated.

3. Gomes needs to go. I don't mind him as a power bat off the bench or in a platoon against lefties but I'm afraid Dusty would give him 400+ AB.

4. My #1 need for 2011 would probably be a true ace. Easier said than done, but this club is in position to make a 3-5 year run and the only thing the Reds don't have that the other legit contenders do is a true ace. We may already have a true ace, but I'd rather not wait on potetial to develop during this window of opportunity.

5. For my club, Chapman is a starter until he's proven otherwise. While I like the idea of him entering games in pressure/strikeout situations, I feel the Reds have to give him every opportunity to be a #1 guy. The real question should be, at what level of success or failure as a starter would Chapman be more worthwhile out of the pen?

scott91575
09-28-2010, 04:10 AM
Wow, Getting Felix Hernandez (possibly the best pitcher in the game who is only 24). Putting Votto in left field. I love these threads.

Seattle has plenty of money to pay Hernandez, and they want to win (they just haven't been good at recently). They are not looking to cut payroll, especially by dealing away the probable AL Cy Young winner who is still only 24.

Votto is going nowhere. He plays first, and he will continue to play first.

As for what I do....

1) Offer Votto a 6 year deal around $90 million (maybe start out a bit lower).
2) Yes, sign Arroyo. Only 1 year. Nothing long term offered. Of course I don't know where the salary cap for the team is at, so if he is not signed I would understand. It is a business after all.
3) I would let Gomes walk.
4) LF. I know some people like Heisey, but I don't trust him to hit well at all, especially for LF. I would look for a temporary solution. There are some older free agents out there (like Magglio Ordonez) who can still play even if they are a little fragile. Won't cost a ton, and will sign short term deals.
5) Starter. He needs to develop his change up. The starting rotation will be pretty full, but he should be given a shot. If he doesn't quite make it, I would still keep him starting and send him to the minors. Relief is only a part time gig right now.

chettt
09-28-2010, 09:51 AM
I really don't see why you would want to get rid of Phillips. I get that he's expensive, but I think this team, both offensively and defensively would look much worse without him. Maybe I just really love watching him play, but I just do not want to see him go. Who is going to play second when he's gone?

Brandon Phillips is the FIRST one that I would trade. His selective hustle got old a LONG time ago. Then, he runs his mouth & can't back it up on the field. The sooner he goes the better!

Girevik
09-28-2010, 10:14 AM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?
I don't have a feel for the exact numbers, but I do my darnedest to lock him up.

Do you pick up the option on Bronson?
Absolutely, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking about trading him at some point.

What do you do with Gomes?
I like Gomer, but I think his time in Cincy is done.

What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?
Am I allowed pipe dreams here? Carl Crawford.

What do you do with Chapman?
Send him to winter ball and start stretching him out to be a starter again.

gmt
09-28-2010, 10:17 AM
Arroyo is needed until some of the others get more seasoning. For just one year, $12MM is not that much for stability in the rotation.

Gomes is only a $1.75MM option. Not bad for what he gives the team. I think he will be back with that low salary.

Phillips is not going anywhere unless the Reds are willing to pay part of his contract. He has decent numbers, but not what he is getting paid for.

Chapman needs to develop another pitch before he can be a starter in the majors. Even a 105 MPH fastball can be hit when that's all you're bringing. That should be the off season and spring training goal.

Votto at $10MM average over the remainder of his arb years and a couple more should be enough. Howard got his contract before all the market collapse plus he was a ROY, MVP and silver slugger by that time. Votto may be the MVP this season which will help his cause. Most of what he has going against him is his first time arb and not quite enough history yet. If he wants to take a chance, he could go one year at a time thru his arb years to get maximum return if he keeps his numbers up. Potential injury causing him to miss significant time or a downturn of stats could hurt him if he doesn't cash in up front. I think $50MM over 5 years would be a good contract. On the end, he will be in his early 30's and if the numbers are still there, the next contract could be a lot more lucrative.

Newman4
09-28-2010, 10:25 AM
Yes.

---------------------------------

Brandon Phillips 2B

4 years/$27M (2008-11), plus 2012 club option

4 years/$27M (2008-11), plus 2012 club option

re-signed by Cincinnati 2/15/08 (avoided arbitration, $4.2M-$2.7M)
$0.75M signing bonus
08:$2.75M, 09:$4.75M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$11M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)
escalators based on awards may bring total package to $43.25M (2008 Gold Glove increases 2009 salary by $0.25M to $5M)
if traded, 2012 club option becomes mutual option

1 year/$0.4075M (2007)

renewed by Cincinnati 3/07 (split contract paying $196,200 in minors)

1 year (2006)
renewed by Cleveland 3/06

acquired by Cincinnati in trade from Cleveland after being DFA 4/06

1 year/$0.3168M (2005)
re-signed 2/05
split contract paying $162,000 in minors

1 year/$0.3009M (2003) 3/03
agent: Levinson brothers

ML service: 5.022

--------------------------------------------------

We may have to pay some of the '11 and/or '12 salary, but certainly one of the teams with a higher payroll can use him. If we have to toss in a prospect so that we don't have to pay as much of the salary, then whatever works. But, it's time to pass the torch to Valaika and use the savings gained at the 2nd Base position in other areas.

X 2 :thumbup:

Caveman Techie
09-28-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm sorry but, Gold Glove second basemen do not fall out of trees. I keep Brandon, till he is on the wrong side of 30 then if he doesn't want to resign for a reasonable amount, then I let him walk.

brm7675
09-28-2010, 11:29 AM
While I agree about not bringing Gomes back, I disagree about him being expensive. He comes very cheap for a veteran, at $1.8M next season, or is it $1.2M? Either way, it's very cheap.

But I also agree that Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Dorn, Balentein can give you the same production.

As much as I like Gomes influence in the clubhouse and steadiness as a teammate, I think his stats are inflated by one month or month in a half of a hot tear, and the rest of the time, he has been mediocre with some really bad moments in the field defensively.

Really wish we could unload Coco and Phillips. Harang and Lincoln come off the books too.

Harang and Lincoln will be gone, the Reds will only deal Co-Co if they have a down year next year and it will be a mid season deal, as for Phillips, the Reds love him, the town loves him, reporters love him, I don't see him going next year.

SYCMiniBus
09-28-2010, 12:25 PM
Looking just at an OPS with Brandon is quite honestly short sited and makes very little sense. OPS is a great stat to go with, but it isn't this magical be all and end all, there is more to the game than just that. He is the premier defensive 2B in the game. One of the reasons the Reds are where they are is because they have the best defensive 2B in baseball and probably the best RF in baseball to go along with a gold glove caliber 3B, and a well, well above average CF. The defense is one of the big reasons why this team is headed into the playoffs, if the Reds had the defense of say the SF Giants, they would be 10-15 games worse.

Votto is going to need a lot more than 5 years and 50 mil, think about 5 years and 75-80 with the final year getting about 20 mil to lock him down. He is going to get at least 6 mil in an arb case this year, and then it gets ridiculously expensive real quickly if not locked down, and both Joey and his agent know this.

Arroyo I think you have to pick him up at 13 mil. I know some think it is 11, but he is already over 200 IP, I can't imagine the escolater in his contract for IP is more than 200. While expensive at 13 mil, for a year I think it does make sense. Given that Leake/Bailey/Volquez/Wood have never shown they can pitch 200 innings, and heck Leake would probably be limited to 150 next year anyway.

With Gomes, I think don't think 1.75 is out of line, but then it gets to the point of payroll. Assuming Votto gets roughly 8-10 mil in a new contract in the first year, and assuming Volquez and Cueto each get 2-3 mil in 1st year ARB cases, picking up Gomes and and Arroyo would put them slightly below this year's payroll with no FA additions and not re-signing O.C. or Ramon Hernandez. If one thinks the Reds could raise the payroll by 5-10 mil next season, then it is possible that picking up Gomes makes a lot of sense, but really this one depends on what the ownership group intends to do in terms of payroll for next season.

With Chapman I do exactly what Tampa Bay did with David Price. He went from closing in the World Series to AAA the next season so he could develop as a starter. As unpopular as it may be, work Chapman as a starter this off-season and at least the first half of next season in AAA. Once he is ready bring him up, and then make the decision on which young arms to trade, or depending on how things are going, see if you can get anything for Arroyo in a deal.

The talk of Felix Hernandez is crazy. The price for Cliff Lee for 1/2 a season and in a walk year was more than Mesoraco and Alonso, and Lee is north of 30. Felix is at 10.7 next year, and only 25 years old. Granted he then gets real expensive, but you would be talking about a package of Cueto/Mesoraco/Leake/Massett to even think about getting him (not throwing in Alonso since they just traded for Smoak), and that might not even do it.

brm7675
09-28-2010, 01:47 PM
I would love to see our Owner show it's fan base he cares adn go out and get Crawford from TB. Yes it's going to jump payroll, but what better way to say "hey we are there and this move can put us over the top'. He is the leadoff hitter we lack and could play LF and give the Reds one of if not the fastest best defensive units in all of baseball in the OF. To make it work you trade of Co-Co and eat half the contract which frees up 6 million next season, you take the Harrang buy out, you get rid of Orlando and go with Janish at SS and you trade Hernandez and his contract and go with Corkey/Hannigan until the rookie catcher is ready.

Caveman Techie
09-28-2010, 02:04 PM
I would love to see our Owner show it's fan base he cares adn go out

I think the fan base needs to show the owner that they care, by showing up. Maybe then he will have the money to go out and fill the needs.

He's done his part, now it's our turn to do our's and support this team.

Captain13
09-28-2010, 02:59 PM
What contract do you offer J. Votto in the offseason?
Do you pick up the option on Bronson?
What do you do with Gomes?
What is your No. 1 need fill in the offseason?
What do you do with Chapman?

I definitely pick up the option on Bronson. I release Gomes and offer him a spring training invite if he is not picked up. My #1 need is a LF with speed and/or power, I want either a leadoff hitter or a five-hole guy. Chapman is a starter. Next year the rotation should start off 1. Arroyo 2. Chapman 3-5 the best of Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, Leake and Wood. I would think you could then send one to Louisville and keep one in the pen. All of those guys have what it takes to be quality 7th or 8th inning guys.

gmt
09-28-2010, 04:28 PM
Gomes is under a team controlled option for $1.75MM in 2011. If they decline that option, he has a $200,000 buyout and he will be released. I doubt he comes to spring training if he is released. He will find a job somewhere else on a contract than come as an invitee. For the $1.75MM he is probably worth the money than to just let him go + $200,000.

bshall2105
09-28-2010, 04:37 PM
Wow, Getting Felix Hernandez (possibly the best pitcher in the game who is only 24). Putting Votto in left field. I love these threads.
Seattle has plenty of money to pay Hernandez, and they want to win (they just haven't been good at recently). They are not looking to cut payroll, especially by dealing away the probable AL Cy Young winner who is still only 24.

Votto is going nowhere. He plays first, and he will continue to play first.

As for what I do....



You act like position changes are the most ridiculous things you've ever heard of. If somebody switching positions can make your team better you do it. I don't know if it would or not, but Votto moving is not in the same stupidity category as getting Feliex Hernandez.

gmt
09-28-2010, 04:51 PM
Votto is going to need a lot more than 5 years and 50 mil, think about 5 years and 75-80 with the final year getting about 20 mil to lock him down. He is going to get at least 6 mil in an arb case this year, and then it gets ridiculously expensive real quickly if not locked down, and both Joey and his agent know this.



I look at the current economic situation and a similar situation pre-recession. Matt Holliday got $4.4 MM after 3 seasons, $9.5MM, $13.5MM, $16.3MM and next season $17MM (new contract). That's a little over $60 MM for the last 4 years plus next year. With the economy the way it is, contracts like that don't happen for 1st year arb players very often. I can see a range of around $50MM for 5 years or $40MM for 4 with $5MM in 2011, then $8MM, $10.5MM, $12.5MM then $15MM. Votto's best bet if he stays healthy is to go year to year. Bundling a multiyear contract will likely devalue his worth based on only 3 years in the majors. If he goes with $5MM next year, he would likely get $10MM in 2012 if he can put up numbers like 2010. Arbitration only covers one year, so it's a roll of the dice for him and the Reds.

scott91575
09-28-2010, 04:57 PM
You act like position changes are the most ridiculous things you've ever heard of. If somebody switching positions can make your team better you do it. I don't know if it would or not, but Votto moving is not in the same stupidity category as getting Feliex Hernandez.

It's about the same likelihood. You really think there is a chance Votto is moving to left field?

Vottomatic
09-28-2010, 05:19 PM
It's about the same likelihood. You really think there is a chance Votto is moving to left field?

Pete Rose moved all over the place.
Tony Perez moved from 3B to 1B.
Brandon Phillips was a SS converted to 2B.
Albert Pujols started out as an outfielder and then moved to 1B.

But no I don't think Joey is moving to the outfield, only because I don't think the Reds are interested in putting Alonso at 1B.

brm7675
09-28-2010, 05:28 PM
You act like position changes are the most ridiculous things you've ever heard of. If somebody switching positions can make your team better you do it. I don't know if it would or not, but Votto moving is not in the same stupidity category as getting Feliex Hernandez.

you can count on 1 hand the number of great players that moved positions. Those that did like Yount were SS who moved to the OF. Moving Votto is one of the dumbest things the Reds could do. If you watch Votto you can see his agility is not that great and no way I risk moving him to the OF.

brm7675
09-28-2010, 05:31 PM
Pete Rose moved all over the place.

Pete was a jack of all trade, a rare player, and somone who could hit was never a great defensive player.
Tony Perez moved from 3B to 1B.
Moving from 3rd to 1st is not that tough, actually it is eaiser to play 1st over third
Brandon Phillips was a SS converted to 2B.

This was done early in his career and I would argue not a bright thing to do.

Albert Pujols started out as an outfielder and then moved to 1B. As was the smart thing to do, reduced wear and tear on the body, and easier position to play, which is why you DON'T move Votto to LF

But no I don't think Joey is moving to the outfield, only because I don't think the Reds are interested in putting Alonso at 1B.

gmt
09-28-2010, 05:34 PM
First base is a good place to put someone who can handle it and to extend the value of that person (bat) for several years. It involves the least amount of throwing and less movement than any other position. That's not to say it isn't a valuable position, but it does tend to get the heavy hitters who either don't play anywhere else very well or can't move around as well in their older years.

Perez was a third baseman, but perhaps he was better suited in later years to a less demanding position. Pujols was also a third baseman for a while. He could probably play almost anywhere and give a reasonable to good effort. Votto does a good job at 1st. Unless you are talking about acquiring a Pujols or Texiera or Howard, I don't see Votto moving to the outfield to accomodate someone else.

Kingspoint
09-28-2010, 07:38 PM
Looking just at an OPS with Brandon is quite honestly short sited and makes very little sense. OPS is a great stat to go with, but it isn't this magical be all and end all, there is more to the game than just that. He is the premier defensive 2B in the game. One of the reasons the Reds are where they are is because they have the best defensive 2B in baseball and probably the best RF in baseball to go along with a gold glove caliber 3B, and a well, well above average CF. The defense is one of the big reasons why this team is headed into the playoffs, if the Reds had the defense of say the SF Giants, they would be 10-15 games worse.



Valaika was voted the best 2nd Baseman in the International League this season.

Just sayin'.

Girevik
09-28-2010, 11:38 PM
Gomes is under a team controlled option for $1.75MM in 2011. If they decline that option, he has a $200,000 buyout and he will be released. I doubt he comes to spring training if he is released. He will find a job somewhere else on a contract than come as an invitee. For the $1.75MM he is probably worth the money than to just let him go + $200,000.

I didn't realize that. If that's the case, I change my stance on Gomer to brining him back unless there simply isn't a spot for him (because I'm able to sign a guy like Crawford, maybe??).

CrosleyField
09-29-2010, 08:37 AM
You can't ever have enough pitching. Rolen's years are few. We need a left fielder. Besides that its a pretty solid team.