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RedsMan3203
10-03-2010, 02:04 PM
He has been here, for a long time... He has seen the bad and the ugly and finally gets to see the good....

Whenever the Reds needed someone to step up with the ball, he was the man did it day in and day out...

He has been the Reds opening day start for the past.. 5 years, always showing up, ready to pitch... Due to his age and injury's his streak will come to an end next year, and today... Was probably the last time we will see Harang pitch in a Reds uniform...


The Harangatang... This one is for you.... :beerme:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ArtT3aisr3U/SeK5MQu8uZI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/e30f41KMt84/s400/Harang_PIT@CIN041209.jpg

WMR
10-03-2010, 02:06 PM
He did a lot for this organization in some really tough circumstances and did it with class and aplomb. All the best to Aaron and his family in the future.

Chip R
10-03-2010, 02:09 PM
:thumbup:

Tom Servo
10-03-2010, 02:11 PM
It seems to happen a lot that a guy plays so great for a team going nowhere but then runs out of steam by the time the team is good again. It was a real pleasure watching Harang pitch in 2006 and 2007.

OnBaseMachine
10-03-2010, 02:13 PM
From 2005-2007, Aaron Harang threw 677.2 innings with a 3.77 ERA during that stretch and 597 strikeouts. During that stretch he was one of the best pitchers in the league and didn't get nearly enough credit that he deserved. Thanks for everything, Aaron. You are a classy guy and I wish you the best in the future. I'd like to see him sign with the Padres or some other team on the west coast and find success again.

_Sir_Charles_
10-03-2010, 02:17 PM
He's a guy I'm REALLY gonna miss. And I wish there was some way we could hold onto him. I STILL think he's going to get back to form...be it for us or someone else. But alas, I just don't see any way the Reds will hold onto him. But he's one Red I will continue to root for in whatever uniform he's wearing. Best of luck to you Aaron...you were a ray of sunshine in a team filled with black holes.

Ron Madden
10-03-2010, 02:32 PM
I wish nothing but the best for Aaron Harang. He put up some great numbers for some pretty shabby ballclubs and always did it with class. He will be missed.

:thumbup:

mth123
10-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Harang has been around long enough and good long enough, that we'll see him in the Reds HOF and his number retired. Lesser contributors have had both honors.

Always Red
10-03-2010, 03:05 PM
:beerme:

Joseph
10-03-2010, 03:08 PM
Good luck Aaron Harang, and God speed in your journey through baseball.

Red in Chicago
10-03-2010, 03:18 PM
Harang has been around long enough and good long enough, that we'll see him in the Reds HOF and his number retired. Lesser contributors have had both honors.

I'll agree he'll make the Reds HOF, but no way does his number get retired IMHO.

OnBaseMachine
10-03-2010, 03:22 PM
Harang has been around long enough and good long enough, that we'll see him in the Reds HOF and his number retired. Lesser contributors have had both honors.

He'll probably make the Reds Hall of Fame but there's no way his number will be retired.

The Reds retired numbers: Fred Hutchinson, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Sparky Anderson, Dave Concepcion, Ted Kluszewski, Frank Robinson, and Tony Perez.

mth123
10-03-2010, 03:34 PM
He'll probably make the Reds Hall of Fame but there's no way his number will be retired.

The Reds retired numbers: Fred Hutchinson, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Sparky Anderson, Dave Concepcion, Ted Kluszewski, Frank Robinson, and Tony Perez.

Depends. If he's done (and might be IMO due to health issues) he's fresh enough in the fans minds that it would make for a big pay day for the Reds. If he continues pitching for other teams for a few years, he'll probably fade out.

BTW. I was thinking some others were retired recently. Obviously Harang isn't in a class with those guys.

SirFelixCat
10-03-2010, 04:22 PM
From 2005-2007, Aaron Harang threw 677.2 innings with a 3.77 ERA during that stretch and 597 strikeouts. During that stretch he was one of the best pitchers in the league and didn't get nearly enough credit that he deserved. Thanks for everything, Aaron. You are a classy guy and I wish you the best in the future. I'd like to see him sign with the Padres or some other team on the west coast and find success again.

:thumbup:

Totally agree! Well wishes, Aaron and I hope you know that Reds fans all around appreciate what you did for this team!:beerme:

KronoRed
10-03-2010, 04:40 PM
Harang was the man, first pitcher we had in years who made you think the team could score a only a few runs and win.

RFS62
10-03-2010, 05:18 PM
It would be sweet to see him play out his career in San Diego.

He was a great leader and a great competitor.

Good Luck, Aaron.

reds44
10-03-2010, 05:20 PM
From Mark Sheldon:

Aaron Harang was very emotional in clubhouse today. Will have more later .... #reds


:(

Thanks for everything you did Aaron. One of the most underrated pitchers in baseball for an extended period of time.

WVRedsFan
10-03-2010, 05:24 PM
Class act. Always composed, even in the celebration the other night. Did so much for Cincinnati. I know he's not done. He just got into a situation with a lot of younger arms and couldn't compete. He will be back and will be a good starter for someone. He was one of my favorites and always will be. He won and was on some of the worst teams in Reds history.

I still don't think he will walk or the Reds will let him. Wouldn't surprise me if he negotiates a way to stay by taking less. He really likes it here. But if not, godspeed, Aaron.

harangatang
10-03-2010, 05:25 PM
I wish he would've pitched well in his last game today, but he was such a breath of fresh air for the starting rotation. I always enjoyed his calm demeanor and he was a class act on and off the field.

VR
10-03-2010, 05:28 PM
His 1st inning today was classic Harang.

Never glamorous....but it was always a big relief when it was his turn to take the bump.

I agree that he'll end up in SD, and hopefully have several more good years in his home town and a cavernous park.

fearofpopvol1
10-03-2010, 05:38 PM
Harang was the man, first pitcher we had in years who made you think the team could score a only a few runs and win.

This.

It's so disappointing that his 2010 was what it was, being the final year of his contract and given how many miserable seasons he sat through here. Harang was never the best or flashiest pitcher in the league, but he just knew how to pitch. He knew how to get hitters out and he was really good at it. He was also quiet and just handled business. He was almost always calm and collected on the mound and never had an ego. He never complained and never made excuses or blamed anyone.

Harang was also huge in the community. He did so many great things for Cincinnati with his wife.

Seriously, how could you not love this guy?

He will really be missed. I wish him and his family the best and I really hope that he regains form with his new team.

BCubb2003
10-03-2010, 06:05 PM
I remember in 2006 he led the league in strikeouts and complete games and tied for the lead in wins and didn't receive a Cy Young vote. He was unsung at his best.

RedsMan3203
10-03-2010, 06:11 PM
Sheldons write up on Harang's emotional Sunday....

Read it here.... (http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/10/harangs_emotional_sunday.html)

Tough day in general for alot of people... Harang will be missed next year....

Chip R
10-03-2010, 06:14 PM
I remember in 2006 he led the league in strikeouts and complete games and tied for the lead in wins and didn't receive a Cy Young vote. He was unsung at his best.

That was criminal - especially since our writers had votes.

fearofpopvol1
10-03-2010, 06:18 PM
I remember in 2006 he led the league in strikeouts and complete games and tied for the lead in wins and didn't receive a Cy Young vote. He was unsung at his best.

I thought he did, he just placed 4th in the voting?

BCubb2003
10-03-2010, 06:38 PM
I thought he did, he just placed 4th in the voting?

You're right. No first-place votes. Still criminal, though.

lollipopcurve
10-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Reds and Cincy have been lucky to have Aaron Harang. I'm glad he got a nice contract while he was a Red -- when he was healthy, he was tough. And what a gift to the community. Good luck, big A!

mbgrayson
10-03-2010, 08:07 PM
In addition to being active in the Red's Community Fund, Aaron Harang went above and beyond with his Aaron's Aces program (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070418&content_id=1916428&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin):
CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati Reds pitcher Aaron Harang today announced his Aaron's Aces ticket program for children of military personnel currently serving in the War on Terrorism.
For all Sunday home games the rest of the season, beginning this weekend, Harang will host 30 guests in sun deck Section 143. Along with the free tickets, Harang will provide $10 in concession coupons and a custom-made Aaron's Aces t-shirt.




All Stars Helping Kids (http://www.allstarshelpingkids.org/teammates/aaronharang.html):


How He's in the Game
When Aaron Harang joined the Cincinnati Reds, he was interested in helping baseball spread to the surrounding community. In 2007, Harang gave $55,000 to the Miracle League of Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky to help make a field so children with disabilities could play baseball. He was inspired to do this when he found out kids with the Miracle League were playing on dirt fields.

He won the Joe Nuxhall Good Guy Award in 2008, awarded to a player who displays great character on and off the field. In 2007 he was the Cincinnati Reds nominee for the Roberto Clemente Award.

Harang grew up in San Diego and lived near a military base, so supporting the military is a priority. Through his charity, Aaron's Aces ticket program, he donates game tickets to military families. He also arranges meet and greets with each military member before the games.



Aaron Harang: The Ace of the staff has been an Ace in the Cincinnati community, as well. Debuting in 2007 was 'Aaron's Aces,' a ticket program designed to provide a fun day at the ballpark for families who currently have a parent serving in the War on Terrorism. In addition to the game tickets, Aaron provides a personal meet-and-greet with each family prior to the games, which includes autograph/photograph opportunities, concession vouchers and a custom-made Aaron's Aces T-shirt. Aaron is also an active participant in the club's Make-A-Wish program, which provides opportunities for children to meet their favorite Reds player during batting practice.

Phhhl
10-03-2010, 08:36 PM
I kept waiting for the old Aaron Harang to show up and lead this pitching staff. But, it just never happened. Such a bitter-sweet way to end the regular season. Harang seems like one of the nicest guys in baseball from this point of view. To think of that giant of a man breaking down after today's ballgame is kind of beautiful, and sad at the same time. The definition of meloncholy, i guess. I also hope he can go somewhere next year and regain some of that old magic, as long as it is not in the NL Central. He has been a great Cincinnati Red.

The Voice of IH
10-03-2010, 08:52 PM
Remember when he wore Nuxhall's number on opening day. Harange understands the tradition and what Cincinnati baseball is all about.

Matt700wlw
10-03-2010, 09:07 PM
Class act.

A great trade. A great Red, and most importantly, a great person.

Matt700wlw
10-03-2010, 09:10 PM
He'll probably make the Reds Hall of Fame but there's no way his number will be retired.

The Reds retired numbers: Fred Hutchinson, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Sparky Anderson, Dave Concepcion, Ted Kluszewski, Frank Robinson, and Tony Perez.

Unofficially, Pete Rose

HeatherC1212
10-03-2010, 11:51 PM
I feel privileged that I got to stand in the crowd this afternoon and give Aaron a huge round of applause for all that he's given to the Reds organization. I had a sign for him that said "Thank You Aaron" but I don't know if it ever got on TV. He was doing well for a while today and I wasn't sure why he left so abruptly until I got home and read about the darn blister. I SOOOOO wanted him to have a great outing today and go out on a high note and I felt so bad that that didn't happen. :( I don't think there's a nicer guy on the team and he definitely gave his all to the Reds both on and off the field through some really tough times. I wish him nothing but the best in whatever comes next for him and he will certainly be missed here in Cincy. I think I read earlier that they were going to take him with them through their games in the NLDS and I really hope that they are able to do that. He deserves to soak up at least a little bit of that playoff atmosphere. THANK YOU AARON. :thumbup:

Some of my photos from today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/KwanFan1212/Reds/P1450323.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/KwanFan1212/Reds/P1450335.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/KwanFan1212/Reds/P1450326.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/KwanFan1212/Reds/P1450334.jpg

WVRedsFan
10-04-2010, 12:56 AM
It makes me sad to just look at those pictures. What a stud he was on a lot of horrible teams. Thanks for posting them. We've had a lot of players come through here over the years, but none with the class of Aaron Harang.

reds44
10-04-2010, 02:28 AM
I honestly wish there was some way to show this thread to Harang, or at least someway for him to know how much Reds fans truly did appreciate him.

Slyder
10-04-2010, 02:48 AM
:thumbup: Harang deserved better. Once a Red always a Red. If anyone deserves to have his number retired from the dark age of Reds Baseball these past 15 years its Harangatang. I for one will be sad to see him move on.

RedsBaron
10-04-2010, 06:44 AM
I wish the Reds had the Aaron Harang of 2005-07 to open the playoffs and I wish Harang had been able to play on a quality team while he was at his peak. He has been a class act and I wish him well. :thumbup:

cumberlandreds
10-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Aaron Harang was a breathe of fresh air for a pitching staff that was, for the most part, terrible from 2005 to 2007. He was always a class act who never complained and gave everything he had everytime he took the mound. He seems like a truly nice person who has done much for the community. My thanks for his pitching efforts with the Reds and my best of luck to him in future at whatever he does. :clap: :harang:

dfs
10-04-2010, 10:05 AM
Classic case of "we don't always get what we deserve."

I hope Aaron lands on his feet with another organization and makes the reds ....well, not sorry, but at least mildly disappointed that they didn't keep him around.

I agree with Baron above, it would be nice to have the vintage Harang around to open the playoffs. He was more consistent and better than anything the reds have now.

bucksfan2
10-04-2010, 10:23 AM
Kudos to the Reds organization for giving Harang the start Sunday. I remember the fiasco with Rijo and the last game at Riverfront. This organization gets it.

Harang was always a class act. He is the type of character you wish all professionals would model. He was good on the field, never made any complaints or disagreements public, and was great off the field. He had a run when he was one of the better pitchers in the NL. Unfortunately baseball is a performance business and Harang's performance no longer warrants a spot on the Reds roster.

As for Harang's number being retired come on. Guys like Larkin, Conception, Soto, Seaver, Browning, Davis etc. all should have their number retired before Aaron. Nice players don't get their numbers retired, that is reserved for all time greats.

traderumor
10-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Still the funniest moment in Aaron's career was when LaRussa accused him of throwing at a hitter. About as clueless an accusation as one could make.

Oh wait, second funniest. Funniest was when he scored from first on a double this year. My whole family, including the one's who don't pay much attention to the Reds, got how funny that was.

Heath
10-04-2010, 10:39 AM
I hope Mario Soto and Aaron Harang have a nice discussion before Aaron heads down the road.

Remember who traded for Aaron Harang? Ol' Leatherpants flipped Jose Guillen for him. I tried to find the Guillen trade in the archives and search for it. My computer froze up. Must be too long ago.

BTW - those who use Reds Away theme for Redszone get an Aaron Harang reminder everytime we log on.

Thanks Aaron. With you around, the Reds were enjoyable to watch every 5 days.

bucksfan2
10-04-2010, 10:43 AM
I hope Mario Soto and Aaron Harang have a nice discussion before Aaron heads down the road.

Remember who traded for Aaron Harang? Ol' Leatherpants flipped Jose Guillen for him. I tried to find the Guillen trade in the archives and search for it. My computer froze up. Must be too long ago.

BTW - those who use Reds Away theme for Redszone get an Aaron Harang reminder everytime we log on.

Thanks Aaron. With you around, the Reds were enjoyable to watch every 5 days.

Ol' Leatherpants was canned before Harang was traded for. I believe it was Brad Kullman the intern GM.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 11:17 AM
Ol' Leatherpants was canned before Harang was traded for. I believe it was Brad Kullman the intern GM.

yep

westofyou
10-04-2010, 11:22 AM
This thread is as close to that time as you can get is my guess.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14473

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Still the funniest moment in Aaron's career was when LaRussa accused him of throwing at a hitter. About as clueless an accusation as one could make.

Oh wait, second funniest. Funniest was when he scored from first on a double this year. My whole family, including the one's who don't pay much attention to the Reds, got how funny that was.
I remember that. I was cracking up big-time. One of his teammates was at the plate emphatically telling Harang to slide, but you could see on Harang's face that he couldn't muster the energy. Fortunately, the throw was slightly off, and he just barely made it.

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 11:53 AM
I hate to 'un-appreciate' Harang, but although he was underrated outside of Cincinnati and deserves a lot of credit for his pitching and work in the community, he is one of the worst hitters ever. Ever. Amongst players with at least 300 plate appearances, you can count on one hand how many players have been worse hitters than Harang and still not use all your fingers.

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 02:06 PM
http://www.red-hot-mama.com/images/uploads/harang-goth.jpg

15fan
10-04-2010, 02:14 PM
I hope Mario Soto and Aaron Harang have a nice discussion before Aaron heads down the road.

Soto was the parallel I was going to draw. Very good pitchers on some very awful Reds teams.

VR
10-04-2010, 02:51 PM
I hate to 'un-appreciate' Harang, but although he was underrated outside of Cincinnati and deserves a lot of credit for his pitching and work in the community, he is one of the worst hitters ever. Ever. Amongst players with at least 300 plate appearances, you can count on one hand how many players have been worse hitters than Harang and still not use all your fingers.

Randy Wells disagrees.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 02:57 PM
Randy Wells disagrees.

Actually Doug Davis is the worst

453 PA's

.085/.096/.104/.200

Harang

482 pa's

.094/.104/.112/.215

Wells

124 pa's

.182/.214/.232/.446

Gaylord Perry was a horrible hitter

1200 PA's

.131/.153/.164/.317

Chip R
10-04-2010, 03:04 PM
I hate to 'un-appreciate' Harang, but although he was underrated outside of Cincinnati and deserves a lot of credit for his pitching and work in the community, he is one of the worst hitters ever. Ever. Amongst players with at least 300 plate appearances, you can count on one hand how many players have been worse hitters than Harang and still not use all your fingers.

His job wasn't to hit. It was to pitch.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 03:06 PM
His job wasn't to hit. It was to pitch.

Yep, in Earl Weavers book he notes that pitchers are different animals, they don't have to run, field or hit to make the club, all that other stuff is gravy.

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 03:20 PM
His job wasn't to hit. It was to pitch.
And here I was thinking his job was to play baseball. I AM SO STUPID.

VR
10-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Actually Doug Davis is the worst



I was actually referring to Randy Wells the pitcher....on the claim that Harang was a poor hitter.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/fun-facts-regarding-harangs-homer.html.php

:thumbup:

traderumor
10-04-2010, 04:11 PM
And here I was thinking his job was to play baseball. I AM SO STUPID.

You may be the first person I've seen make the argument that a pitcher's hitting prowess ever entered the discussion of value at the major league level. I think his charitible giving may rank higher come evaluation time.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 04:41 PM
I was actually referring to Randy Wells the pitcher....on the claim that Harang was a poor hitter.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/fun-facts-regarding-harangs-homer.html.php

:thumbup:

I guess every pitcher has to have a nemesis.

WMR
10-04-2010, 05:30 PM
I thought watching him 'hit' was worth the price of admission by itself. ;)

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 05:59 PM
You may be the first person I've seen make the argument that a pitcher's hitting prowess ever entered the discussion of value at the major league level. I think his charitible giving may rank higher come evaluation time.
I think hitting (and possibly defense) from a pitcher is very underrated by most. The player in the #9 slot hits only slightly less than the player in the #8 spot.

wheels
10-04-2010, 06:20 PM
I think hitting (and possibly defense) from a pitcher is very underrated by most. The player in the #9 slot hits only slightly less than the player in the #8 spot.

:laugh:

traderumor
10-04-2010, 06:48 PM
I think hitting (and possibly defense) from a pitcher is very underrated by most. The player in the #9 slot hits only slightly less than the player in the #8 spot.It isn't underrated, there's just not a significant value added for a "complete" ballplayer pitcher. For example, Micah Owings would always give up more runs than he could ever make up for with his hitting. Good fielding pitchers will save themselves some runs, but I'm not sure its worth a win.

I guess all things being equal when I'm making roster decisions, a pitcher who can field and hit might get the nod over the guy who can't, but it would have to be a significant plus factor, like an Owings.


And the mention of Harang's poor hitting in this thread seems out of place for the topic.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 06:48 PM
I think hitting (and possibly defense) from a pitcher is very underrated by most. The player in the #9 slot hits only slightly less than the player in the #8 spot.

Actually hitting is a total waste from a pitcher IMO (expecting it) instead I'd try and get them to field a bit better, especially once runs start to be scarce, it can factor in much greater to the result if your pitcher is a GB pitcher but leaves himself in a vulnerable position by having his follow through render him a useless body in the middle of the diamond.

Plus Plus
10-04-2010, 07:35 PM
I would have no problem with Harang making the team as the 25th man in the bullpen. With Wood and Bailey as the long men, why not have Harang in there as a sign of respect in the NLDS rather than a LeCure or Maloney type?

He deserves it as much as anyone on the team.

kaldaniels
10-04-2010, 07:41 PM
I would have no problem with Harang making the team as the 25th man in the bullpen. With Wood and Bailey as the long men, why not have Harang in there as a sign of respect in the NLDS rather than a LeCure or Maloney type?

He deserves it as much as anyone on the team.

First playoffs in 15 years. You go with the 25 who give you the best chance to win. I'd take another position guy before I forced Harang on the roster.

Plus Plus
10-04-2010, 07:56 PM
First playoffs in 15 years. You go with the 25 who give you the best chance to win. I'd take another position guy before I forced Harang on the roster.

Are your team's chances to win really impacted by keeping Harang on the NLDS roster over Jordan Smith or Matt Maloney?

I'm not convinced that they are, and I think Harang deserves to be in the dugout or bullpen during the series. Not in later, longer series but why not in the short series?

------Edit--------

I just did a small mental roster breakdown and I now agree that there is probably no spot for Harang on the roster, unless the Reds choose to take him over Jordan Smith. It's a real shame, considering how good he has been for the Cincinnati Reds (both as a player and a person) over the last seven years.

camisadelgolf
10-04-2010, 08:38 PM
There are plenty of 'average' or 'replacement level' pitchers out there. All I'm saying is that the ones who are good hitters and defenders--when compared to other pitchers--deserve more of a look. How many times this year did we see Mike Leake's hitting or defense make a huge difference in a game? Do you think Mike Hampton, Dontrelle Willis, Carlos Zambrano, etc. would have had as many wins as they do if they were below-average hitters?

Tornon
10-04-2010, 09:36 PM
Remember who traded for Aaron Harang? Ol' Leatherpants flipped Jose Guillen for him. I tried to find the Guillen trade in the archives and search for it. My computer froze up. Must be too long ago.



http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31420

Chip R
10-04-2010, 10:31 PM
And here I was thinking his job was to play baseball. I AM SO STUPID.

You said it. I didn't.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 01:07 AM
You said it. I didn't.
You're right. Pitchers don't need to bunt runners over nor cover first base.

WVRedsFan
10-05-2010, 01:14 AM
To bring this back to what the thread was supposed to be for, I watched the Harang video after the game yesterday and I was really moved. Of course, I'm an emotional guy, but watching Aaron lament that he would have liked to have ended on a high note was a little tough. I felt the same way when Junior left, so I'm an old (very old) softee, but there has to be some reward for guys like Aaron. Krivsky negotiated that horrible contract. I never blame the players. I think he has worth for the Reds, but the dye is cast. That said, the guy deserved better. Appendicitis last year and back problems this year. He's only 32. I imagine his contract was a little much back when, but why do you reject it? I'll just miss the big lug.

WMR
10-05-2010, 01:44 AM
Couldn't Aaron still be with the team even if he's not on the 25 man? There's all sorts of guys around the clubhouse during the playoffs it seems.

cincinnati chili
10-05-2010, 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by Heath

Remember who traded for Aaron Harang? Ol' Leatherpants flipped Jose Guillen for him. I tried to find the Guillen trade in the archives and search for it. My computer froze up. Must be too long ago.


http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31420

If you don't feel like reading the whole thread, it was Brad Kullman and/or Leland Maddux who made the trade for Harang. Bowden had been fired.

If you were to administer a lie detector to Kullman and Maddux, I wonder if they would have told you that Valentine was the target of the deal and Harang was a throw in with a back-of-the-rotation upside.

Ron Madden
10-05-2010, 02:48 AM
If you don't feel like reading the whole thread, it was Brad Kullman and/or Leland Maddux who made the trade for Harang. Bowden had been fired.

If you were to administer a lie detector to Kullman and Maddux, I wonder if they would have told you that Valentine was the target of the deal and Harang was a throw in with a back-of-the-rotation upside.

That's the way I remember it. Aaron turned out to be a very pleasant surprrise.

Ron Madden
10-05-2010, 02:55 AM
I thought watching him 'hit' was worth the price of admission by itself. ;)


There has been quite a number of times I paid the price of admission to watch him pitch. I was seldom disappointed.

But I know what you're sayin'. ;)

HeatherC1212
10-05-2010, 09:42 AM
Couldn't Aaron still be with the team even if he's not on the 25 man? There's all sorts of guys around the clubhouse during the playoffs it seems.

He was with the team at Fountain Square yesterday so I think they are taking him along with the team through the playoffs. I believe they're doing the same thing with Mike Leake and I really like that they're doing that for both guys. :)

My favorite memory of Aaron was a couple years ago when the Reds were playing the Pirates. Their pitcher walked our catcher (I think it might have been Hanigan or maybe Bako at the time) to get to Aaron in the lineup. The bases were loaded and there were two outs. Aaron ended up singling to left field and got two RBIs out of it. That was so awesome to see and I think he also ended up pitching seven innings of one run baseball too. Not a bad afternoon! :D

Chip R
10-05-2010, 10:08 AM
You're right. Pitchers don't need to bunt runners over nor cover first base.

Never said that. Sacrifice bunting is not hitting and neither is covering 1st base. You are saying he wasn't as good a pitcher as he could be because he didn't hit well. That's like saying Sandy Koufax was lousy because he couldn't hit. Or Joey Votto's not good because he didn't strike anyone out.

NDRed
10-05-2010, 10:29 AM
From someone who just wanted to read about one of the best Reds pitcher over the last 7 years-

Thanks for the thread hijack guys.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 10:54 AM
Never said that. Sacrifice bunting is not hitting and neither is covering 1st base. You are saying he wasn't as good a pitcher as he could be because he didn't hit well. That's like saying Sandy Koufax was lousy because he couldn't hit. Or Joey Votto's not good because he didn't strike anyone out.
I consider sacrifice bunting as a part of hitting. But maybe the Reds hired a bunting coach when I wasn't paying attention. Any time I'm watching the game and someone asks me who's hitting, I guess I should say, "Well, Aaron Harang is at the plate, but that doesn't count as hitting because he's showing bunt." Covering first base? I never even implied that counted as hitting, but you probably knew that since you're trolling (again).

I never said Harang was lousy as an overall baseball player. A lousy hitter? Yes. A lousy pitcher? No. A lousy baseball player? No.

I implied that some of his pitching was negated by his inability to hit. Was it a lot? No, I never said that. Even if Sandy Koufax never got on base or moved a runner a single time in his life, I would still consider him to be one of the most dominant baseball players of all-time. I'm not delusional about the value of hitting from a pitcher--I don't expect any pitcher to do it even remotely close to as well as a positional player. All I'm saying is that many pitchers are a little underrated because of their ability to hit, and many pitchers are a little overrated because of their inability to hit.

As for bringing up Joey Votto, he doesn't only hit--he plays defense, too. However, National League starting pitchers pitch, play defense, and hit (or 'have plate appearances' if you don't feel comfortable calling it 'hitting'). Does Votto need to play defense well to help the team? No. He could probably defend with his shoelaces tied together and still be the best player on the team.

When it comes to pitchers who are much less talented than Koufax, et al, their hitting and defense can make the difference between being AAA fodder and worthy of a roster spot imho.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
From someone who just wanted to read about one of the best Reds pitcher over the last 7 years-

Thanks for the thread hijack guys.
How do you think the mods would like it if an 'Aaron Harang Disappreciation Thread' were made? Don't get me wrong--I appreciate what Harang has done for the Reds--but it's not like the guy died and should be immune from honest, fact-based opinions. He pitched pretty well for a few years, and now he's moving on to another city, where all of us wish him success in some form.

SirFelixCat
10-05-2010, 11:02 AM
How do you think the mods would like it if an 'Aaron Harang Disappreciation Thread' were made? Don't get me wrong--I appreciate what Harang has done for the Reds--but it's not like the guy died and should be immune from honest, fact-based opinions. He pitched pretty well for a few years, and now he's moving on to another city, where all of us wish him success in some form.

You know what? You're spot on correct.



HOWEVER, there is a time and a place for those opinions and, frankly, this THREAD isn't it. If you'd like to discuss the merits of what he did (or DIDN'T do well), no one is going to have an issue if you started a separate thread discussing those points. This thread was intended as the title intimates. Just use some tact.

westofyou
10-05-2010, 11:29 AM
How do you think the mods would like it if an 'Aaron Harang Disappreciation Thread' were made? Don't get me wrong--I appreciate what Harang has done for the Reds--but it's not like the guy died and should be immune from honest, fact-based opinions. He pitched pretty well for a few years, and now he's moving on to another city, where all of us wish him success in some form.

The guy is a pitcher, it's only natural to focus on what his salary is for. Not his hitting, you could go through 90% of the pitchers and apply the same disregard for their hitting that you can for Harang, in essence they suck at the task too.

Might as well debate the mole on Cindy Crawford's face.

Roy Tucker
10-05-2010, 11:52 AM
I remember going to this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN200206210.shtml) game back in 2002 when the A's came to Cinergy Field. Harang started for the A's (vs. Jimmah Haynes) and pitched a pretty nice game.

I also remember that this was another game of mine where I whined and moaned about how in the world could the Reds let a nobody like Aaron Harang beat them. I seem to have a penchant for seeing the debut of a good albeit then-unknown pitcher against the Reds and wonder WTH is going on only to see them go on and have a good career. I remember thinking Harang looked awfully big.

Good luck to Aaron. I imagine he'll continue to pitch in the big leagues. SD or Oakland with their spacious OFs would be a good match.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 11:54 AM
The guy is a pitcher, it's only natural to focus on what his salary is for. Not his hitting, you could go through 90% of the pitchers and apply the same disregard for their hitting that you can for Harang, in essence they suck at the task too.

Might as well debate the mole on Cindy Crawford's face.
No, you couldn't go through 90% of the pitchers and apply the same disregard for hitting. Why is everyone putting words in my mouth? I never said his pitching shouldn't be the focus. I'm comparing Harang's hitting to the hitting of other pitchers. Harang gets paid to play baseball, which entails hitting (in the NL, at least). For him, pitching is obviously the biggest part of that, but hitting is also one of his duties. "Hey, Aaron, we're just paying you to pitch, so don't even bother picking up the lumber today, okay?"

Things I have never said in my life:
Aaron Harang is a lousy baseball player.
Pitchers should be able to hit somewhere near as well as positional players.
Sandy Koufax wasn't very good because he couldn't hit well.
Joey Votto isn't very good because he doesn't pitch.
Being able to hit should be the primary focus of pitchers.
Aaron Harang doesn't deserve appreciation.
Aaron Harang beats his kids.

Give me a break.

Harang has been an underrated pitcher for nearly his entire career, but one facet of his game that can never be underrated is his hitting ability (and let's throw in his base-running for good measure). I appreciate everything he did for the organization, and I wish him the best. I also hope you all can forgive me for trying to incite some conversation about baseball on a baseball forum in a thread about a baseball player who plays baseball for a baseball team. Baseball.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 11:58 AM
Here's a funny tidbit. The Reds' worst positional player of all-time is Brooks Kieschnick. He never had a hit in 13 at-bats.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 12:05 PM
And even though he's not a pitcher, Paul Janish is the Reds' worst 'pitcher' of all-time.

VR
10-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Trying to get this thread back on track.

I kind of like Crawford's mole....and can't back it up with any stats.

*BaseClogger*
10-05-2010, 01:47 PM
In an attempt to defend Camisa because I think he is getting unfairly attacked from all angles here, according to BaseballReference's oWAR (wins above replacement for offensive contribution, containing a park factor and a positional adjustment) Aaron Harang cost the Reds 2.6 wins with his offense over the course of his career. In 2005, his worst offensive season, his oRAR was -10, meaning his hitting was 10 runs worse than the replacement level pitcher's hitting. Adding 10 runs to his ERA in 2005 increases it from 3.83 to 4.25. That is a discernible difference to me. Granted, that was by far the worst offensive performance of his career, but it can certainly be argued that a pitcher's secondary skills--when viewed in context of its effect on ERA--is significant...

edit: I agree with the rest of you though that Cam should have brought this up at another time. I am not disagreeing with that. I simply think he made a valid point.

camisadelgolf
10-05-2010, 01:53 PM
I agree that it would have been ideal to bring it up later, but thanks to the policy regarding Adam Dunn, I wanted to get my piece in before we weren't allowed to talk about him anymore.

WMR
10-05-2010, 05:02 PM
The guy is a pitcher, it's only natural to focus on what his salary is for. Not his hitting, you could go through 90% of the pitchers and apply the same disregard for their hitting that you can for Harang, in essence they suck at the task too.

Might as well debate the mole on Cindy Crawford's face.

That little imperfection cost her a date and chance at eternal happiness with Raisor. :(

sivman17
10-06-2010, 04:18 PM
Here's an article about Harang walking the streets in Philly and was hounded for a bunch of autographs and he took the time for each one. He's truly a class act.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101006/SPT04/10070315/1071/Autograph-hounds-harangue-Harang

traderumor
10-06-2010, 08:04 PM
The guy is a pitcher, it's only natural to focus on what his salary is for. Not his hitting, you could go through 90% of the pitchers and apply the same disregard for their hitting that you can for Harang, in essence they suck at the task too.

Might as well debate the mole on Cindy Crawford's face.Mole? I thought they called that a "beauty mark"? :confused:;)

westofyou
10-06-2010, 08:28 PM
Mole? I thought they called that a "beauty mark"? :confused:;)

I have one, it's lovely