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savafan
10-04-2010, 12:20 AM
NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball's average attendance dropped for the third straight season, falling 1 percent this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5645950

RedsManRick
10-04-2010, 12:21 AM
Odds that ticket prices still go up next year?

The Operator
10-04-2010, 12:22 AM
But I've been told by Bud Selig that we are in a Golden Age of baseball.

And didn't The Reds have one of the better attendance increases from last year to this year? Maybe that, coupled with the overall decrease around MLB can put to rest the notion that we have a bad fan base here in Cincinnati.

Ron Madden
10-04-2010, 12:24 AM
But I've been told by Bud Selig that we are in a Golden Age of baseball.

And didn't The Reds have one of the better attendance increases from last year to this year? Maybe that, coupled with the overall decrease around MLB can put to rest the notion that we have a bad fan base here in Cincinnati.

Good point. :thumbup:

KronoRed
10-04-2010, 01:55 AM
The Reds were up 300,000 fans this year but it's right in line with what they drew in 08 and 07.

bucksfan2
10-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Baseball is as popular as it has ever been. Right Bud?

Hoosier Red
10-04-2010, 10:40 AM
I think baseball is actually as popular as its ever been. I just think it's more spread out now, fans in foreign countries can't come see the game for instance.

I think it's dwarfed by the huge amount of attention paid to football from fans, because again Football is an event. Baseball is a sport made for radio and television, it's a sport made to be enjoyed a little bit over the course of a summer, rather than intensely over three-four hours.

Also, of course all sports are dealing with falling attendance so there are obviously larger factors involved.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Baseball is as popular as it has ever been. Right Bud?


Major League Baseball set records in 2007, with a total of 79.5 million and an average of 32,785.

The game can't sustain a climb every year, a downturn on a 6 month business cycle in an area of diverse markets is going to show change, especially during a recession.

The game is pretty healthy, I expect small fluctuation in attendance numbers from year to year, what would be more telling is a look at all the numbers, not just fannies in the seats.

bucksfan2
10-04-2010, 01:14 PM
The game can't sustain a climb every year, a downturn on a 6 month business cycle in an area of diverse markets is going to show change, especially during a recession.

The game is pretty healthy, I expect small fluctuation in attendance numbers from year to year, what would be more telling is a look at all the numbers, not just fannies in the seats.

I disagree 100%. Kids don't play baseball at the rate they used to. You drive by parks and playgrounds in the summer and you see basketball courts full but nary a soul on the baseball diamond.

I like to look at and compare what Goddell does compared to Selig. Goddell is a very proactive commish and listens to what the fans say. When fans complained that MNF was too late, they moved the start time up. Fans are sick and tired of paying for pre season games and that poor level of football. Goddell is pushing forward with an 18 game schedule.

When baseball fans complain about the playoffs starting too late it takes Selig 10 years to act upon it. When people complain about parity Selig brings up the Twins making the playoffs while the NFL has real parity.

During my lifetime baseball will always be the #2 sport in America. Not a bad thing to be, but a far change from a couple of decades ago.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 01:54 PM
I disagree 100%. Kids don't play baseball at the rate they used to. You drive by parks and playgrounds in the summer and you see basketball courts full but nary a soul on the baseball diamond.

I like to look at and compare what Goddell does compared to Selig. Goddell is a very proactive commish and listens to what the fans say. When fans complained that MNF was too late, they moved the start time up. Fans are sick and tired of paying for pre season games and that poor level of football. Goddell is pushing forward with an 18 game schedule.

When baseball fans complain about the playoffs starting too late it takes Selig 10 years to act upon it. When people complain about parity Selig brings up the Twins making the playoffs while the NFL has real parity.

During my lifetime baseball will always be the #2 sport in America. Not a bad thing to be, but a far change from a couple of decades ago.

Football and baseball are different animals, they draw different crowds, I don't see the fields full with kids playing football either.

Once folks can realize that they don't have to be THE MOST POPULAR SPORT IN THE WORLD to matter than the ridiculous comparison between football and baseball might stop.

Folks have been saying the game's in trouble for over 100 years, 75 million plus of fans says otherwise.

Even if it isn't the most popular sport in America on TV.

Hoosier Red
10-04-2010, 01:58 PM
Football and baseball are different animals, they draw different crowds, I don't see the fields full with kids playing football either.

Once folks can realize that they don't have to be THE MOST POPULAR SPORT IN THE WORLD to matter than the ridiculous comparison between football and baseball might stop.

Folks have been saying the game's in trouble for over 100 years, 75 million plus of fans says otherwise.

Even if it isn't the most popular sport in America on TV.

I agree with WOY. Baseball will never be as popular as football, however it is plenty healthy.

Goodell's proactive with things like MNF because he can be. He has the juice to tell a network to move it up half an hour.
Selig has to claw and scrape to get Fox to move a game 15 minutes because he needs Fox more than Fox needs him.

All those kids playing basketball, what time to the NBA Finals start?
What time does the NCAA championship game start?

Kids playing soccer in every park for the past 40 years hasn't done anything for it's attendance/popularity in this country. (Though the latest next great wave is slightly more promising.)

reds1869
10-04-2010, 02:01 PM
I agree with WOY. Baseball will never be as popular as football, however it is plenty healthy.

Goodell's proactive with things like MNF because he can be. He has the juice to tell a network to move it up half an hour.
Selig has to claw and scrape to get Fox to move a game 15 minutes because he needs Fox more than Fox needs him.

All those kids playing basketball, what time to the NBA Finals start?
What time does the NCAA championship game start?

Kids playing soccer in every park for the past 40 years hasn't done anything for it's attendance/popularity in this country. (Though the latest next great wave is slightly more promising.)

I agree with booth Hoosier Reds and WOY. The football comparisons reek of insecurity and are pointless. Major League Baseball is very good at what it does and there are plenty of folks like myself who attend The Church of Baseball and view the other sports as filler between the baseball games that actually matter to us. Baseball isn't going anywhere so the the Chicken Littles in the media can chill out.

Unassisted
10-04-2010, 02:19 PM
Many families' incomes went down, but ticket prices went up. This shouldn't be surprising.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 02:25 PM
The sky is falling!!!

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/nfl-attendance-likely-to-fall-for-third-straight-season-in-2010-to-lowest-level-since-1998/1



NEW YORK--The U.S. economic recession that's left nearly 15 million Americans out of work is taking its toll on NFL ticket sales for the upcoming 2010 season.

The NFL expects overall attendance to drop for the third straight season, said Eric Grubman, executive vice president of NFL Ventures and Business Operations, in an exclusive interview with USA TODAY. The league expects average game attendance to drop for the third straight season, falling to its lowest levels since the 1998 season.

bucksfan2
10-04-2010, 02:31 PM
I agree with booth Hoosier Reds and WOY. The football comparisons reek of insecurity and are pointless. Major League Baseball is very good at what it does and there are plenty of folks like myself who attend The Church of Baseball and view the other sports as filler between the baseball games that actually matter to us. Baseball isn't going anywhere so the the Chicken Littles in the media can chill out.

There are plenty of fans in every sport that attend The Church of (enter sport here). Hockey, soccer, basketball, tennis, etc. It doesn't mean that the sport is in good standing nor does it mean that it is in dire straits. Don't get me wrong baseball has a very captive audience because it is the only thing on TV during the summer months. And baseball also has a unique situation in that casual fans do enjoy attending a baseball game. My wife hates that I watch the Reds but will jump at going to the game. And unlike other sports it is quite reasonable to go to games.

But the issue I see is the people younger than me just don't play baseball anymore. I went to school at Ohio State and lacrosse was played more than baseball. My nephews live up in Canton and no one plays baseball up there. When I asked them if they played they looked at me like I was confusing them. I for one think its a bigger issue than MLB is willing to admit. Kids just aren't playing baseball at the rate they used to.

reds1869
10-04-2010, 02:57 PM
There are plenty of fans in every sport that attend The Church of (enter sport here). Hockey, soccer, basketball, tennis, etc. It doesn't mean that the sport is in good standing nor does it mean that it is in dire straits. Don't get me wrong baseball has a very captive audience because it is the only thing on TV during the summer months. And baseball also has a unique situation in that casual fans do enjoy attending a baseball game. My wife hates that I watch the Reds but will jump at going to the game. And unlike other sports it is quite reasonable to go to games.

But the issue I see is the people younger than me just don't play baseball anymore. I went to school at Ohio State and lacrosse was played more than baseball. My nephews live up in Canton and no one plays baseball up there. When I asked them if they played they looked at me like I was confusing them. I for one think its a bigger issue than MLB is willing to admit. Kids just aren't playing baseball at the rate they used to.

Baseball has always been an urban game and likely always will be. It is extremely popular in cities with major league clubs and to a lesser extent those with minor league teams. It doesn't have to be popular outside of its natural turf, it just has to maintain its hold in those metro areas. That said, I hope MLB makes an effort to lead the charge of spreading the sport.

Chip R
10-04-2010, 03:03 PM
I disagree 100%. Kids don't play baseball at the rate they used to. You drive by parks and playgrounds in the summer and you see basketball courts full but nary a soul on the baseball diamond.

I like to look at and compare what Goddell does compared to Selig. Goddell is a very proactive commish and listens to what the fans say. When fans complained that MNF was too late, they moved the start time up. Fans are sick and tired of paying for pre season games and that poor level of football. Goddell is pushing forward with an 18 game schedule.

When baseball fans complain about the playoffs starting too late it takes Selig 10 years to act upon it. When people complain about parity Selig brings up the Twins making the playoffs while the NFL has real parity.

During my lifetime baseball will always be the #2 sport in America. Not a bad thing to be, but a far change from a couple of decades ago.

I wouldn't be so quick patting the NFL on the back. It seems like fans are choosing to stay home and watch the games on their 56" plasma HD TVs with a six pack of their beer that they bought at Kroger which would cost about as much as a stadium beer. No worries about drunks around you getting into fights or using foul language. Your fantasy results are at the bottom of the screen and you can always change to another game during commercial. No worries about parking and paying for parking. You don't have to brave the elements to go to a game and sit in traffic to and from the game. That's not to mention the price of a ticket to an NFL game. You are getting the best possible camera work and you're not stuck in the nosebleeds with someone jumping up in front of you every time there's a big play. That's the NFL's dirty little secret. Ratings are up but attendance is down.

westofyou
10-04-2010, 03:07 PM
During my lifetime baseball will always be the #2 sport in America. Not a bad thing to be, but a far change from a couple of decades ago.


The NFL passed MLB as the most popular sport in the USA in the late 60's (according a vastly rated sports poll whose name escapes me now) when that occurred MLB was at an all time low in attendance and TV was just starting to realize its power with football.

It's not just your lifetime, it's about 95% of the board, and yet here we are.

15fan
10-04-2010, 03:25 PM
http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseed1.pdf

Quarterly unemployment rates for the US over the time frame in question.

2007 Q2: 4.5%
2007 Q3: 4.7%
2007 Q4: 4.8%

2008 Q1: 5.0%
2008 Q2: 5.3%
2008 Q3: 6.0%
2008 Q4: 6.9%

2009 Q1: 8.2%
2009 Q2: 9.3%
2009 Q3: 9.7%
2009 Q4: 10.0%

2010 Q1: 9.7%
2010 Q2: 9.7%

Ghosts of 1990
10-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Baseball is as popular as it has ever been. Right Bud?

It is.

Just because people aren't going out to the ballpark; I read a stat in Will Leitch's book that more people will log on and watch highlights or baseball online via MLB.com than ever before.

It's tough to debate, but I feel like it is as popular as ever. I think the fact that power numbers are down will allow a lot of purists to start to pay attention again.

Ron Madden
10-05-2010, 05:22 AM
It is.

Just because people aren't going out to the ballpark; I read a stat in Will Leitch's book that more people will log on and watch highlights or baseball online via MLB.com than ever before.

It's tough to debate, but I feel like it is as popular as ever. I think the fact that power numbers are down will allow a lot of purists to start to pay attention again.

I agree with you Ghost, I believe Baseball is still very popular. But....

I could be wrong but I believe "power numbers" draw more fans than pitchers duels.