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George Foster
10-06-2010, 08:00 PM
You know...some say that the manager does not have that big of a part in wins and loses. Well think about this....

What pitcher dominated the Phillies like no other this season through 8 innings? Answer: Travis Wood. Perfect game through 8 innings.

Will Travis Wood pitch any game 2? No...Dusty wasted him in game 1 down 4-0 to Halladay.

Our only left handed starter is not in the rotation against a team that has a hard time against good left handers and has a recent history of pitching pretty good against the Phillies.

The Phillies only got one hit after the 2nd inning...against who? Our lefties.

Manager's decisions matter..

aldotcs
10-06-2010, 08:05 PM
Manager's decisions matter..

Very true. But if the game had gone the other way, would we still be post game managing Game One?

George Foster
10-06-2010, 08:11 PM
Very true. But if the game had gone the other way, would we still be post game managing Game One?

Baseball is a game of percentages...Pitch the guy who has had the best success (recently) against the team you are facing.

Arroyo has had a history of being lit up by the Phillies lefties. Wood should of started game 1 or 2. He can't even pitch Friday after being wasted tonight.

Vottomatic
10-06-2010, 08:12 PM
Baseball is a game of percentages...Pitch the guy who has had the best success (recently) against the team you are facing.

Arroyo has had a history of being lit up by the Phillies lefties. Wood should of started game 1 or 2. He can't even pitch Friday after being wasted tonight.

I agree. Arroyo pitching is a loyalty thing by Dusty.

Trace's Daddy
10-06-2010, 08:12 PM
Wood can still start Game 4 if there is one, right? Halladay won't no-hit the Reds twice. So much for OCab's leadership-Janish needs to start on Friday. The Reds have smacked Oswalt around before this year. Hopefully it'll be 1-1.

George Foster
10-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Wood can still start Game 4 if there is one, right? Halladay won't no-hit the Reds twice. So much for OCab's leadership-Janish needs to start on Friday. The Reds have smacked Oswalt around before this year. Hopefully it'll be 1-1.

My point is tomorrow we are starting a guy who does not normally pitch good against left handers. We needed to put ourself in a posession that gave us the best chance to win one of the 1st two games. Starting Wood would of gave us that chance.

R_Webb18
10-06-2010, 08:22 PM
travis wood should start game 4 if it happens but don't it matter who pitched 2night im sure they find a way to get 1

arkimadee
10-06-2010, 08:24 PM
i think if Hank Aaron was batting third and Babe Ruth was hitting 4th we still would have had a not hitter throwed against us tonight..

George Foster
10-06-2010, 08:26 PM
i think if Hank Aaron was batting third and Babe Ruth was hitting 4th we still would have had a not hitter throwed against us tonight..

true...but we should be looking forward to Wood starting for us and shutting the Phillies down on Friday.

arkimadee
10-06-2010, 08:56 PM
true...but we should be looking forward to Wood starting for us and shutting the Phillies down on Friday.
I think Bronson deserves to start Friday. We have proven we can hit Oswalt this year. I would however be a fan of bumping Wood to Sunday and game 3 and moving Cueto to game 4. Then have Bronson for game 5 if it came to that.. what do you think?

Oxblood
10-06-2010, 09:58 PM
Maybe they should have waited on contract talks with dusty until the season is over...

George Foster
10-06-2010, 10:07 PM
I think Bronson deserves to start Friday. We have proven we can hit Oswalt this year. I would however be a fan of bumping Wood to Sunday and game 3 and moving Cueto to game 4. Then have Bronson for game 5 if it came to that.. what do you think?

Wood should have been named either game 1 or 2 starter to begin with. Your goal is to split at Phily. "Deserving" has nothing to do with it. Arroyo has not had seccess against teams that bat 4 or 5 lefties.

Krawhitham
10-06-2010, 10:38 PM
Will Travis Wood pitch any game 2? No...Dusty wasted him in game 1 down 4-0 to Halladay.


47 pitches and a day off, he could pitch Friday if needed. How many pitches do they pitch when they "pitch on the side" between starts?

mckbearcat48
10-07-2010, 10:03 AM
47 pitches and a day off, he could pitch Friday if needed. How many pitches do they pitch when they "pitch on the side" between starts?

Most bullpens are 45-50 pitches.

brm7675
10-07-2010, 10:27 AM
You know...some say that the manager does not have that big of a part in wins and loses. Well think about this....

What pitcher dominated the Phillies like no other this season through 8 innings? Answer: Travis Wood. Perfect game through 8 innings.

Will Travis Wood pitch any game 2? No...Dusty wasted him in game 1 down 4-0 to Halladay.

Our only left handed starter is not in the rotation against a team that has a hard time against good left handers and has a recent history of pitching pretty good against the Phillies.

The Phillies only got one hit after the 2nd inning...against who? Our lefties.

Manager's decisions matter..

Just a question for you, how many managers do you believe would start a rookie who is nearing the total number of innings he has ever pitched in game 1 of a playoff game? I could see going with Bronson in game one and Cueto in game 2 and THEN maybe Wood, but game 1 IN PHILLY?

brm7675
10-07-2010, 10:29 AM
I agree. Arroyo pitching is a loyalty thing by Dusty.

Loyalty? What crap, Arroyo won 17 games for this team this season, he is your ACE, he is the best option for game 2.

brm7675
10-07-2010, 10:30 AM
Maybe they should have waited on contract talks with dusty until the season is over...

How did Dusty lose game 1?

TheBigLebowski
10-07-2010, 10:31 AM
I have no problem with the post-season rotation as constructed.

EV and JC are the two guys on this staff who, if they have "it" on any particular night, can compete with guys like Halladay, Oswalt, et al. Volquez didn't have anything last night but, the sad fact is, even if he went out and gave us 7 innings of 2 run, 13 strikeout ball, we lose. Halladay tossed a no-no.

It may be true that Wood went out and held the Phils at bay. But coming in down 4-0 against a guy like Halladay is a completely different story than starting Game One of a playoff series. Would Wood (would Wood - LOL) have fared better as the starter? Maybe. I guess we'll never know. I like Travis Wood more than almost anyone. I see a lot of Cliff Lee there - male, white, lefty, good at baseball, etc. Kinda like every white wide receiver in the NFL is either called a 'possession receiver' or compared to Wes Welker. And isn't calling a wide receiver a 'possession receiver' a bit redundant? It's what they're supposed to do. It's like calling a bank teller a check-cashing, deposit-taking, money-handling bank teller. But I digress. Wood was inserted (no pun intended) in the second inning to keep the game close and hold the Phils at bay. He did that and we're second-guessing Dusty for not having him start the game? I'd rather we just tip the cap to Dusty/Price for using him effectively. I can promise you all Travis was not going to toss a shutout as a starter yesterday.

Arroyo deserved a spot in the post-season rotation, btw.

Girevik
10-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Never mind the fact that if Gomes makes that play on Halliday's ball then Volquez is out of the second with no harm done. No telling what could have happened from there.

mr. red
10-07-2010, 10:35 AM
Ok Dusty did not lose this game. Dusty does not step on the mound and throw to home plate and Dusty does not stand in the batters box to hit the ball. We had ZERO hits. Honestly, that should have been a 1-0 game. I'll give it up to Victorino's double in the first and scoring on a sac fly. The runs in the second...let's look at them. Gomes humps the grass rather than letting the ball drop or aggressively diving after the ball. O-Cab makes a bad decision and doesn't throw the ball hit up the middle to first. That's a whole new ball game if you can keep it 1-0. It puts more pressure on Halladay and gives EV more confidence going forward. Dusty made a good call to bring in Wood and keep us in the game. Halladay has been the best pitcher in baseball for the past decade...he beat us..Dusty did not lose it.

PeteRoseBelongs
10-07-2010, 11:03 AM
the Reds have a decent team. Reality is that I would rather of played the Braves or the Giants. The Phillies are the best team in the National League. I hate saying that. It pains me. But if you look at that lineup right now is there anyone that you don't fear. Every out is a tough out. I am not a Cabrera fan. I prefer Janish. I worry about our outfielders. Gomes is lucky that the ball didn't make it past him.

I say this for our players. Stay calm, stay in control and for god sakes forget about yesterday and go and get Oswalt and go and get Hamels. One game at a time. That's the only way you can play it right now.

ThornWithin81
10-07-2010, 11:12 AM
i think if Hank Aaron was batting third and Babe Ruth was hitting 4th we still would have had a not hitter throwed against us tonight..

I'm pretty sure Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth would not have been hacking the way the Reds bats were.

Post-Season No Hitters don't happen. All the bad teams that normally hack, hack, hack and fail to get aboard are out of the running. Halladay was great, but a great team playing smart touches him for at least a few hits.

We're outclassed right now. Simple as that.

Carin4Narron
10-07-2010, 12:07 PM
Ok Dusty did not lose this game. Dusty does not step on the mound and throw to home plate and Dusty does not stand in the batters box to hit the ball. We had ZERO hits. Honestly, that should have been a 1-0 game. I'll give it up to Victorino's double in the first and scoring on a sac fly. The runs in the second...let's look at them. Gomes humps the grass rather than letting the ball drop or aggressively diving after the ball. O-Cab makes a bad decision and doesn't throw the ball hit up the middle to first. That's a whole new ball game if you can keep it 1-0. It puts more pressure on Halladay and gives EV more confidence going forward. Dusty made a good call to bring in Wood and keep us in the game. Halladay has been the best pitcher in baseball for the past decade...he beat us..Dusty did not lose it.Mr. Red, that was a excellent and objective post. I couldn't had said it any better myself! Good Job!

aldotcs
10-07-2010, 12:07 PM
We're outclassed right now. Simple as that.

Definitely outdone last night. I hope the team can shake it off and take game 2.

Moosie52
10-07-2010, 12:09 PM
Doesn't matter who pitched for the Reds. We got no-hit.

redssince75
10-07-2010, 12:10 PM
Very true. But if the game had gone the other way, would we still be post game managing Game One?

Of course not, but what a silly question. If the Pirates manager had won 100 games instead of losing 100, would he have still been fired?

:rolleyes:

UPRedsFan
10-07-2010, 12:11 PM
EV was the correct choice. He's potentially the only one who could match Halladay. If he had his control we could have been tied 0 -0 in the 9th.

Didn't turn out

aldotcs
10-07-2010, 12:16 PM
Of course not, but what a silly question. If the Pirates manager had won 100 games instead of losing 100, would he have still been fired?

:rolleyes:

I don't think it's stupid. Everyone is ready to spring if the team loses. When the team wins, it's all Go Dusty! It's easy to say after how things could have been different. I'm questioning the trend of criticism and praise.

Hey Meat
10-07-2010, 12:51 PM
I think Bronson deserves to start Friday. We have proven we can hit Oswalt this year. I would however be a fan of bumping Wood to Sunday and game 3 and moving Cueto to game 4. Then have Bronson for game 5 if it came to that.. what do you think?

I agree. It is pretty clear in addition that we should see no more Volquez as well.

Todd Gack
10-07-2010, 02:41 PM
i think if Hank Aaron was batting third and Babe Ruth was hitting 4th we still would have had a not hitter throwed against us tonight..

I do not understand this sentiment from Reds fans. I heard an interview on ESPNradio early this morning and I forget who said it (maybe Tim Kurkjian??). Anyway, he said Reds hitters looked at first pitch strike one something like 16 times last night including all three hitters in the 9th.

At some point, even someone like Travis Wood should start swining earlier in the count than our hitters did. Yes, Halladay was great last night, but I didn't think he was 'no hitter' great. The hitters were very passive last night. The best way to attack a pitcher who's pitching as well as Halladay was last night was to match his aggressiveness with yours.

757690
10-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Just a question for you, how many managers do you believe would start a rookie who is nearing the total number of innings he has ever pitched in game 1 of a playoff game? I could see going with Bronson in game one and Cueto in game 2 and THEN maybe Wood, but game 1 IN PHILLY?

Plus, Wood's dominance over the Phillies is one game. Not much to draw any real conclusions, or make any real decisions based on.

In the playoffs, don't worry about matchups. Pitch your best pitchers. Period.

I actually think pitching Wood in game one was a good idea. It got the butterflies out of his system for his next start.

DocRed
10-07-2010, 07:55 PM
EV was the correct choice. He's potentially the only one who could match Halladay. If he had his control we could have been tied 0 -0 in the 9th.

Didn't turn out

mmmkkkayyy.....:rolleyes:

New York Red
10-07-2010, 11:47 PM
i think if Hank Aaron was batting third and Babe Ruth was hitting 4th we still would have had a not hitter throwed against us tonight..
No.

Stray
10-08-2010, 10:07 AM
If we're going to advance, we have to play a game 4, and I'm pretty sure we'd see Travis Wood then. I had no problems with the rotation before the series, so I'm not going to act like I do now.

Travis Wood went crazy on them the first time they ever saw him pitch, that isn't that uncommon (while taking a perfect game into the 9th is). Volquez in game 1 made sense, like someone else said, it gave us a punchers chance. Arroyo on the road, in what we had to know could very well be a must win, I also like. He hasn't had great success against lefties, but I wouldn't want anyone else out there in a game that we REALLY need.

It leaves Cueto at home, which I like a million times more than on the road, and back around to Wood likely starting game 4 (assuming we get there).

In hindsight it's easy to say it was the wrong move, but with the way Volquez had been pitching it made sense.

demas863
10-08-2010, 04:45 PM
Maybe they should have waited on contract talks with dusty until the season is over...

Amen. He pushes for contract negotiations, then says he doesn't want negotiations to be a distraction to the team. He and his agent held a gun at Jocketty and Castellini and they both blinked. Did you ever see more sick looking guys than J and C at the signing announcement? You would have thought Joey Votto had chosen to retire. They are going to rue the day they resigned "One batter too late" Duhsty.

swaisuc
10-08-2010, 04:50 PM
I agree. Arroyo pitching is a loyalty thing by Dusty.

About 27 out of the 30 managers would have pitched Arroyo in game 1, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Dusty is loyal in a lot of areas, but he clearly went away from that and went with his read on who gave him the best chance to win game 1. I have no problem with that.

Kingspoint
10-09-2010, 11:59 PM
I think Baker's decisions have been perfect so far through two games.

Nobody could have done better.

(Since some of you know how I feel about Dusty, you might think I'm joking, but I'm serious.)