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View Full Version : getting an ace pitcher?



R_Webb18
10-07-2010, 01:12 AM
How do the Reds to an ace pitcher? Draft? Hope one of are young arms turns into one? FA? Trade?

Natty Redlocks
10-07-2010, 06:35 AM
They could've won the Cliff Lee sweepstakes this year, and they still would not have had a chance against Halladay. This is not about the Reds' inadequacies; they're still a very good young team getting their first playoff experience (first for most of them, anyway). They just ran into a steamroller. I'm convinced he would've thrown at least a shutout against any team he faced.

TheBigLebowski
10-07-2010, 07:35 AM
Hopefully, we already have him. Thy name is Aroldis.

Girevik
10-07-2010, 08:29 AM
I think they've got 3 guys that COULD develop into that guy....he's just not there yet (hopefully at least one of them will be).

The problem is you've already got like 7 guys for the 5 spots next year. I'm not sure that's the best place to put FA money right now. I think a LF, long term solution at 3B, and possibly SS (although I feel better about Janish's bat now than I did in April) are bigger needs. Now, if you can package a couple of those #2 - 3 type young pitchers and get an ace that way, that might be another story.

gmt
10-07-2010, 09:38 AM
The Phillies have 3 very good pitchers lined up. That doesn't happen very often. The Giants are fairly well lined up that way also, but not as good as the Phillies. Do the Reds have an "ace"? Probably not. Do they have one in the waiting? It's hard to see that right now. Chapman has more to prove than his ability to throw a 105 MPH fastball. As Halladay showed last night, an ace has command of all his pitches, not just a heater. The Reds staff is filled with #2's and #3's. That's good enough for the regular season, but probably won't last long in the playoffs without a great upsurge in the hitting and some luck (like getting the Braves in the first round). Some teams are built to win during the season. The Phillies are built right now to win during the season and the post season.

CySeymour
10-07-2010, 09:41 AM
And Halladay has been around the block. He's a vet who is at the height of his profession.

brm7675
10-07-2010, 03:10 PM
How do the Reds to an ace pitcher? Draft? Hope one of are young arms turns into one? FA? Trade?

We do it via drafting. 'ACE" pitchers are expensive and on average are not worth the money needed to spend given it's releationship to your team's entire budet. With all the issues around yesterday, the problem was NOT the Reds pitching. We gave up 4 runs on 5 hits. I will take that everyday from my staff and on Sunday. We didn't score any runs. Spend the money on a power hitter or good LF (Crawford) over a "ace".

Newman4
10-07-2010, 04:02 PM
The Reds have to develop them more than likely. They could trade for one, but they better be right because they can't afford to fill holes through free agency. Here's a good stat:

142,728,379 > 68,200,542

That's the difference in payroll between Philadelphia and Cincinnati. If Philly makes a bad trade then they can just go buy someone in free agency. If the Reds mess up then it's a different story. That's why our farm system is critical and not weighing the payroll down with expensive players that do not live up to potential can not happen.

757690
10-07-2010, 05:02 PM
I think they've got 3 guys that COULD develop into that guy....he's just not there yet (hopefully at least one of them will be).



Exactly.

Personally, I think Wood has the best shot at being an Ace, outside of Chapman. Aces are Aces more because of makeup and smarts than stuff. I see a lot of Glavine and Pettite in Wood.

1990REDS
10-07-2010, 08:34 PM
I think were gonna have to draft and develop. With our ballparks reputation it will be hard to get an established ace here without drastically overpaying. Philly has a hitter friendly park but they can afford to overpay. We cant.

redlegs2370
10-07-2010, 09:09 PM
I think Homer Bailey is an ace waiting to happen. He just seems so close, unfortunately his pitch counts have been up because a lot of guys foul off pitches. Has he studies the hitters more and can figure out what their pitches he can get them out on I really think he is going to be able to go 7-8 innings a game next year.

Jefferson24
10-07-2010, 11:49 PM
I think Homer Bailey is an ace waiting to happen. He just seems so close, unfortunately his pitch counts have been up because a lot of guys foul off pitches. Has he studies the hitters more and can figure out what their pitches he can get them out on I really think he is going to be able to go 7-8 innings a game next year.

I have lost faith in Homer, he just can't seem to put it together. At least not for two or three games in a row. Time to move on in my opinion.

R_Webb18
10-08-2010, 12:33 AM
homer seems good but if you get hurt every year kinda sucks.
i elt like wood. he seems to be able to get a lot of strikeouts looking.

Carolina Red
10-08-2010, 01:45 AM
I think they trade a prospect like Alonso for a #1 at the trade deadline next year. You'd have to find someone who had the right kind of contract for the Reds to afford it and make it worthwhile. No half year rentals.

Vottomatic
10-08-2010, 03:02 AM
I think they made the playoffs a year too early.

If you look at other teams and then look at our overall stats.....you see what I mean.....

Natty Redlocks
10-08-2010, 07:01 AM
I think they trade a prospect like Alonso for a #1 at the trade deadline next year. You'd have to find someone who had the right kind of contract for the Reds to afford it and make it worthwhile. No half year rentals.

They tried to make Alonso the centerpiece for a Cliff Lee two-month rental this year, and were outbid. I think Alonso will be traded for sure this offseason, and I think people are going to be very disappointed in the return.

texasdave
10-08-2010, 08:12 AM
I think they made the playoffs a year too early.

If you look at other teams and then look at our overall stats.....you see what I mean.....

I think they made the playoffs about 15 years too late. But that's just me.

Redsnake
10-08-2010, 08:26 AM
This may seem like beating a dead horse, but there's a #1 pitcher on a bad team that needs good young players to build around. He's young, got mulitple years left on contract and is disgruntled. His name is Greinke.

Alonso, Juan Fran., Burton and Heisey should be the opening offer.

BEETTLEBUG
10-08-2010, 09:25 AM
That should be a good deal.

webbbj
10-08-2010, 12:06 PM
i think the reds go into next season w/ the same pitchers. if someone doesnt emerge as an Ace type pitcher by the allstar game, and the organization feels the team is just that one #1 guy away from being a title contender they go out and get it.

Girevik
10-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Exactly.

Personally, I think Wood has the best shot at being an Ace, outside of Chapman. Aces are Aces more because of makeup and smarts than stuff. I see a lot of Glavine and Pettite in Wood.



I think Homer Bailey is an ace waiting to happen. He just seems so close, unfortunately his pitch counts have been up because a lot of guys foul off pitches. Has he studies the hitters more and can figure out what their pitches he can get them out on I really think he is going to be able to go 7-8 innings a game next year.

Lol. I wasn't counting Wood or Bailey in my 3 potential aces. Just goes to show much much depth they have, and why I think putting a bunch of resources there to get an established ace may not be the best long term move.

Girevik
10-08-2010, 12:12 PM
This may seem like beating a dead horse, but there's a #1 pitcher on a bad team that needs good young players to build around. He's young, got mulitple years left on contract and is disgruntled. His name is Greinke.

Alonso, Juan Fran., Burton and Heisey should be the opening offer.

Greinke is the one guy who puts people in seats there, and he's still relatively cheap If he's available, go for him, but I don't think KC is looking to move him.

Vottomatic
10-08-2010, 12:51 PM
I think the Reds deal for an ace pitcher in the offseason.

Felix

CySeymour
10-08-2010, 03:19 PM
If I remember, Grienke himself said during the season that he doesn't know if it makes sense for him or the team to stay in KC if they aren't going to contend anytime soon. If so, I think he'd be an ideal trade target for the Reds.

Kingspoint
10-10-2010, 12:03 AM
How do the Reds to an ace pitcher? Draft? Hope one of are young arms turns into one? FA? Trade?

The $100 Million Dollar question.

Texas gets one and it looks like they're going to the AL Championship.

Philly gets one last year and they win the World Series.

Philly trades away that one and then gets two more and it looks like they're on their way to another Championship.

That's why I'd sell the farm to try to get Felix Hernandez. I'd give them Cueto, Alonso, Leake, etc., etc. etc.

TC81190
10-10-2010, 12:18 AM
The $100 Million Dollar question.

Texas gets one and it looks like they're going to the AL Championship.

Philly gets one last year and they win the World Series.

Philly trades away that one and then gets two more and it looks like they're on their way to another Championship.

That's why I'd sell the farm to try to get Felix Hernandez. I'd give them Cueto, Alonso, Leake, etc., etc. etc.
King Felix isn't going anywhere, though if he was, I'd push everything to get him, yes.

Greinke is the more realistic target, as in he's actually more likely to be moved by his club.

Old NDN
10-10-2010, 09:06 AM
Well if you really want an Ace, you decline the options on Harang and Arroyo. That frees up about 23 million a year to pay for one. Problem is, other than Lee, there are none in the free agency pool. That's rolling the dice but, if the young pitching is as good as most think, then you do it. But is an Ace the most glaring need of this team?

BEETTLEBUG
10-10-2010, 11:14 AM
Lee would be fine and a bat like Matt Kemp which I saw trade rumors on MLB Trade rumors with Nats way not Reds.