Listening to 700 this morning.....

[BuckeyeRedleg]

So I'm driving to work this morning (listening to 700) and on comes Mark Amazon and Scott Sloan. I don't know much about either of these two, but the first thing I hear is they are talking about the play Jonny Gomes couldn't make on the Halladay hit. Amazon goes on to say that it's not the fault of Gomes because he's not in there for defense. That he's really in there because of his bat and that he's way better defensively than what used to be out there (Dunn). This, of course, is met by approval from Sloan as they then begin to lament on the days of Griffey and Dunn. Saying Griffey and Dunn were so toxic to the clubhouse and now they have players that don't care what's on the back of their baseball card blah blah blah and that's why they are winning now.

He then laughs when Colin Cowherd is brought up and says Cowherd knows nothing about baseball or baseball statistics and he's just full of hot air (which I agree with, but just thought it was ironic).

It's really sad that these two are given a platform to further dumb down the common fan.

[kbrake]

Agree with you on these two but Marty does much more damage from a much larger platform.

[Sea Ray]

Obviously it's Scott Sloan's show and he doesn't pretend to be a sports expert. Bottomline is it's a horrible show no matter what subject they're talking about.

[Ghosts of 1990]

You should hear the two guys who do sports talk here in Columbus (common man & torg). They know nothing about baseball or sports in general and get a nightly 3 hour platform spot to talk about sports and display their lack of knowledge.

These two guys sound like dolts, I didn't think Sloan was that bad when I've heard him on Saturday morning sports talk. But trust me, no one could be as bad as what we have to put up with here in Columbus. Anyone would know more about sports than them.

[smith288]

You should hear the two guys who do sports talk here in Columbus (common man & torg). They know nothing about baseball or sports in general and get a nightly 3 hour platform spot to talk about sports and display their lack of knowledge.

These two guys sound like dolts, I didn't think Sloan was that bad when I've heard him on Saturday morning sports talk. But trust me, no one could be as bad as what we have to put up with here in Columbus. Anyone would know more about sports than them.

Those guys are great. I'm sick of hearing from holier than thou "experts" we get from 6am to 5pm.

Common man and the torg are entertaining as heck. I get a laugh every drive home. They don't claim they know anything (that's their schtick) and they talk like I would talk to one of my buds.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

You should hear the two guys who do sports talk here in Columbus (common man & torg). They know nothing about baseball or sports in general and get a nightly 3 hour platform spot to talk about sports and display their lack of knowledge.

These two guys sound like dolts, I didn't think Sloan was that bad when I've heard him on Saturday morning sports talk. But trust me, no one could be as bad as what we have to put up with here in Columbus. Anyone would know more about sports than them.

I listen to Common Man and the Torg all the time and I think they are hilarious, because they are such dolts. The Torg actually knows his NFL, but both are pretty much clueless about everything else. It's just that they don't seem to take themselves so seriously, so I find them harmless and pretty funny.

I actually used to work at 1460 The Fan when I was fresh out of college, back when Terry Smith had "The Locker Room", Skip and Dom were on in the morning, and Herbie was on in the afternoon. Good times.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Those guys are great. I'm sick of hearing from holier than thou "experts" we get from 6am to 5pm.

Common man and the torg are entertaining as heck. I get a laugh every drive home. They don't claim they know anything (that's their schtick) and they talk like I would talk to one of my buds.

They've really grown on me. I've had to pull over a few times from laughing so hard.

[Unassisted]

Saying Griffey and Dunn were so toxic to the clubhouse
That does seem to be a popular sentiment among sportswriters. Media types have spent more time in that clubhouse than any of us have, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

That does seem to be a popular sentiment among sportswriters. Media types have spent more time in that clubhouse than any of us have, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

It seems rather convenient that the supposed toxicity level was lowered as the level of pitching was raised. Hmm.

The media loves scapegoats and whipping boys. I find it disingenuous to go back and blame two people for a whole decade of futility.

[dougdirt]

That does seem to be a popular sentiment among sportswriters. Media types have spent more time in that clubhouse than any of us have, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
And yet multiple managers dismiss things such as chemistry leading to winning, but rather that winning leads to better clubhouse chemistry.... specifically Joe Torre (watch Baseball: The Tenth Inning) and Jim Leyland.

[Unassisted]

It seems rather convenient that the supposed toxicity level was lowered as the level of pitching was raised. Hmm.
Some of the dollars that would have gone to Griffey and Dunn went to pitching. Lots of objective ways to slice that one.

I've never worked in a workplace where workplace culture didn't affect results, so I can't understand why so many refuse to accept the possibility that it did in the case of the 200x Reds. The bottom line is that we won't know about the subjective until someone who spent time in those clubhouses writes a book or starts granting tell-all magazine interviews. In the meantime, all we have to go by are the occasional dribbles of backstory from the mouths and keyboards of media pundits.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Some of the dollars that would have gone to Griffey and Dunn went to pitching. Lots of objective ways to slice that one.

I don't think any of that money went to pitching. Harang and Arroyo were already here. Cueto, Bailey, Wood, etc. are part of the system.

Chapman might have been affordable because of the money freed up, but he had little to do with the Reds winning this year.

Even still, that has nothing to do with chemistry or a toxic clubhouse. Griffey and Dunn were two of the more well liked guys on the team. They also took care of the younger players.

[Razor Shines]

I don't think any of that money went to pitching. Harang and Arroyo were already here. Cueto, Bailey, Wood, etc. are part of the system.

Chapman might have been affordable because of the money freed up, but he had little to do with the Reds winning this year.

Even still, that has nothing to do with chemistry or a toxic clubhouse. Griffey and Dunn were two of the more well liked guys on the team. They also took care of the younger players.

I agree. I could understand the argument that Griffey and Dunn weren't a negative as much as a guy like Rolen is a positive. I still think the team is just better, but I could at least see the merit in that argument.

[WMR]

Pretty much all local talk radio is a wasteland and the national scene isn't much better.

[Razor Shines]

Pretty much all local talk radio is a wasteland and the national scene isn't much better.

I enjoy Dan Patrick and Scott Van Pelt. A local Indy guy I always liked and still listen to him online is Mark Patrick.

[WMR]

I enjoy Dan Patrick and Scott Van Pelt. A local Indy guy I always liked and still listen to him online is Mark Patrick.

SVP is one of the very few that I actually like.

DP is okay, but he tends to meander a bit for my liking.

Probably the best sports talk radio I have found is the NFL programming on SiriusXM.

[Unassisted]

Even still, that has nothing to do with chemistry or a toxic clubhouse. Griffey and Dunn were two of the more well liked guys on the team. They also took care of the younger players.
I'll grant you that "toxic" is an oversimplification of the pundit perception. "Toxic" would be everyone walking on eggshells for fear of setting off a temper tantrum and we've never heard of anything like that. "Toxic to winning" is more like it.

"Languid" and "uninspired" are closer to the mark, but they may not be in the vocabulary of most radio guys.

[The Voice of IH]

I really can not agree more with those two. every where they go....they lose.

[CTA513]

Dunn and Griffey must have heard this and put some kind of spell on the Reds tonight.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I really can not agree more with those two. every where they go....they lose.

Really?

That's why you agree. Hilarious.

Seattle was solid with Griffey for several years. Dunn was on a pretty decent team with Arizona and he helped them.

So he goes to the worst team in baseball (Washington) and he's the reason they suck?

Great logic.

[dman]

I'm mixed on this whole issue. I'm not a stats expert like some of the others on this board, but isn't it ironic that as soon as both Junior and Dunn are gone that the very next season the Reds win the NL Central?

[KronoRed]

I'm mixed on this whole issue. I'm not a stats expert like some of the others on this board, but isn't it ironic that as soon as both Junior and Dunn are gone that the very next season the Reds win the NL Central?

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.

[dman]

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.


I thought Junior was traded mid-season 2009. I know that Dunn was traded in 2008.

Nope, you're correct. Mid-season 2008. My bad. I still stand by my original comment though, just off on my timeline.

[CTA513]

Dunn and Griffey must have heard this and put some kind of spell on the Reds tonight.

Looks like that spell lasted the whole series.

[REDblooded]

It seems rather convenient that the supposed toxicity level was lowered as the level of pitching was raised. Hmm.

The media loves scapegoats and whipping boys. I find it disingenuous to go back and blame two people for a whole decade of futility.

Correlation does not equal causation...

[REDblooded]

And yet multiple managers dismiss things such as chemistry leading to winning, but rather that winning leads to better clubhouse chemistry.... specifically Joe Torre (watch Baseball: The Tenth Inning) and Jim Leyland.

Which is interesting again, because our biggest division rival could easily have the argument that their season was ended due to a lack of clubhouse chemistry... Look at the TlR vs. Rasmus battles... Carp dressing down his own players... Etc... That team tanked in a hurry when all of those issues started happening at the same time.

[REDblooded]

Except they didn't, both left in 08.

The problem was pitching, anyone still blaming Dunn and JR for the lost decade simply has a big ax to grind with no logic or meaning.

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...

[Ron Madden]

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...

To keep from getting banished from RedsZone all I'm gonna say is I strongly disagree with this post.

[WVRedsFan]

The logic is more aimed at the approach those two took... They, but ability alone, should have been the team leaders... Only issue is, neither one of them showed much leadership... Griffey was always bitter, and was the type of guy that would languish out of position in CF because his pride got in the way... Dunn was the type of player that would rather watch a called strike 3 than swing in a clutch situation and 2 outs...Wow. Just wow. I'm not even going to comment on this.