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cumberlandreds
10-08-2010, 08:06 AM
What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.

Chip R
10-08-2010, 09:22 AM
What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.


Can't do it. People think replay holds up the game. Of course managers arguing about a call does the same thing.

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 09:29 AM
What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season I. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.

I am not excusing the missed calls in the past few days but umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. It isn't even close in fact. I have a hard time watching videos of game of those eras because the positioning and technique used years ago was incredibly bad.

cumberlandreds
10-08-2010, 09:33 AM
Can't do it. People think replay holds up the game. Of course managers arguing about a call does the same thing.

Those same people thought automobiles were a passing fad too. :)

Most calls could be reviewed and decided in less than a minute. Just have a replay official watching every call. Buzz down to the crew chief when there's a problem and tell him, bad call buddy, call overruled by replay.
There would be some calls that take longer but I would say those calls would be argued by the manager for what the length of time it would take to review. Baseball moves at slow speed on everything so I doubt I will ever see this happen.

OesterPoster
10-08-2010, 10:33 AM
Am I reading the Hunter Wendelstedt strike zone plot from last night correctly? Red means called strike, and green means called ball? There is a green square right smack in the middle of the plot, and he's got red ones all over the place.

That guy's a joke of an umpire...but we already knew that.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/zoneplot.php-pitchSel=all&game=gid_2010_10_07_nyamlb_minmlb_1&sp_type=1&s_type=7.gif

Reds Freak
10-08-2010, 10:54 AM
Sure we can complain about the umpiring all we want but the fact of the matter is if the Braves would have made plays or scored some runs it would be a moot point. Perhaps the runner was out at second. But don't give the 8th hitter a cookie with the pitcher on deck or tell Omar Infante to field a routine ground ball and it doesn't matter. Perhaps Michael Young didn't check his swing on that pitch (one of the loosest rules in baseball) but don't give up a bomb the next pitch.

The teams that win are making plays and the teams that lose are complaining about the umpires...

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 10:57 AM
Am I reading the Hunter Wendelstedt strike zone plot from last night correctly? Red means called strike, and green means called ball? There is a green square right smack in the middle of the plot, and he's got red ones all over the place.

That guy's a joke of an umpire...but we already knew that.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/zoneplot.php-pitchSel=all&game=gid_2010_10_07_nyamlb_minmlb_1&sp_type=1&s_type=7.gif

Hunter has gotten much better but he is still very bad.

NJReds
10-08-2010, 11:07 AM
Hunter has gotten much better but he is still very bad.

I watched a lot of this game and his strike and ball calls had me completely baffled. I have to imagine the hitters were at a loss as well. I think that's why most of the Yankees just started hacking at the first good pitch that they saw.

Although one thing I noticed is that a few times Mauer would set up all the way to one side of the plate and and if Pavano missed his target to the other side, even if it looked like a good pitch, Mauer would lunge way over to catch the ball and it had the appearance of wildness ... if that makes sense.

Catchers in general seem to move way too much behind the plate these days. Staying still and framing pitches is a lost art.

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 11:14 AM
I watched a lot of this game and his strike and ball calls had me completely baffled. I have to imagine the hitters were at a loss as well. I think that's why most of the Yankees just started hacking at the first good pitch that they saw.

.

To quote a friend of mine who worked AAA baseball.

"Hunter won the gene pool lottery"

blumj
10-08-2010, 11:33 AM
The bottom line is, you cannot look through cameras anymore and expect human eyes to come close. It's like expecting people to run as fast as cars, the technology has created an unfair standard. Either make the decision to let the cameras do the job or live with a job that we can all now plainly see that humans cannot perform very well.

RedsBaron
10-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Am I reading the Hunter Wendelstedt strike zone plot from last night correctly? Red means called strike, and green means called ball? There is a green square right smack in the middle of the plot, and he's got red ones all over the place.

That guy's a joke of an umpire...but we already knew that.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/zoneplot.php-pitchSel=all&game=gid_2010_10_07_nyamlb_minmlb_1&sp_type=1&s_type=7.gif

Wow! Leslie Nielsen did a better job of umpiring in "The Naked Gun." :eek:

Chip R
10-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Wow! Leslie Nielsen did a better job of umpiring in "The Naked Gun." :eek:


Plus he was a better dancer.

RedsManRick
10-08-2010, 12:19 PM
Eventually, the ubiquity of technology highlighting their mistakes will become a greater embarrassment than simply accepting the help that the technology can provide. At that point, the umps will be leading the push for technology integration.

sivman17
10-08-2010, 12:41 PM
Just as everyone feared, the umpires have already had some notable blown calls, one of which directly affected the outcome of the game, and others which nearly did.

Yanks-Twins Game 1: fly ball to right field in the 9th inning with two outs was said to hit the ground when it was clearly caught by the RFer. Did not affect the final score, but did bring up Thome representing the tying run to the plate with Mariano Rivera on the mound. Can you imagine if Thome had hit a HR and tied the game? There would have absolute outrage, especially since it happened against the Yankees.

Giants-Braves Game 1: Buster Posey was thrown out at 2nd base, the only problem is that the umpire called him safe. Former Red Cody Ross promptly hits him in for the only run of the game. The second base umpire affected the outcome of the game.

These were the notable ones, but there were also errors on checked swings, such as Michael Young's obvious swing which was not called a strike and he hit a HR the next pitch, and the home plate umpires have not been superb. I read somewhere that the umpire in the Yanks game blew 31 ball/strike calls. That's pathetic. The worst part is that umpires are only needed for the very close calls. The other ones are obvious. So these umpires, who are supposed to the best of the best, are screwing up the calls where we really need them.

The call by the RF ump in the Yanks game is inexcusable. That's probably the only call he had to make that whole game and he said Golson scooped it, when even in real time it was pretty obvious he caught it. I just heard on ESPN that the MLB and umps are going to meet in December and discuss expanded replay. Bout time, although they have already affected outcomes of games in the playoffs.

RedsManRick
10-08-2010, 12:44 PM
As I said in the other thread, when the embarrassment from the technology showing their frequent mistakes hits a certain point, umps will lead the charge in instituting an effective system for providing them technological assistance.

For players, coaches, etc. it evens out in time. For umps, all missed calls are bad. Nobody wants to be the next Jim Joyce, especially not in the playoffs. They, more than anybody else involved, have a vested interest in getting it right.

Roy Tucker
10-08-2010, 01:14 PM
I think these missed calls have always been around.

Its just that every game is televised now in High Definition and 19 different camera angles and 60 fps that show everything in great detail millisecond by millisecond.

My comment isn't meant as an excuse, but just more that technology has exposed a long-standing problem.

The Operator
10-08-2010, 01:18 PM
Man, the Wendelstadt strikezone plot is just brutal. He was giving up to a foot and a half off the left side of the plate, and he was missing no doubt strikes IN the zone. That takes skill, right there.

And these umpires are supposed to be the best of the best for the postseason.

RedsManRick
10-08-2010, 01:19 PM
I think these missed calls have always been around.

Its just that every game is televised now in High Definition and 19 different camera angles and 60 fps that show everything in great detail millisecond by millisecond.

My comment isn't meant as an excuse, but just more that technology has exposed a long-standing problem.

Agreed. It's not that they've gotten worse; I would bet they've actually gotten better. But our ability to evaluate them has never been so refined.

That's why the messaging has to be, "We know that you guys are the best at what you do. But we have tools to help you do even better. You need to use them."

sivman17
10-08-2010, 01:20 PM
I think these missed calls have always been around.

Its just that every game is televised now in High Definition and 19 different camera angles and 60 fps that show everything in great detail millisecond by millisecond.

My comment isn't meant as an excuse, but just more that technology has exposed a long-standing problem.

I definitely agree. It's come to the point where everyone else in the world instantly knows an umpire made a mistake, but of course they can't do anything about it. It has to be an odd feeling for an umpire after he makes a controversial call and he has to stand out there knowing that people are staring at him knowing he botched the ball.

If I was an ump I would definitely want technology to correct my blown calls.

cumberlandreds
10-08-2010, 01:25 PM
I am not excusing the missed calls in the past few days but umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. It isn't even close in fact. I have a hard time watching videos of game of those eras because the positioning and technique used years ago was incredibly bad.

I don't doubt you a bit. They may be much better. It's just that the technology to see their mistakes are better. Which goes back to the main point I was making. You need to use the technology available to get the calls right. You just can't bury yourself in the sand and say they are human and going to make mistakes. It's true but saying that doesn't justify not using the means available for correction.

Reds Freak
10-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Here's my post from the other thread...

Sure we can complain about the umpiring all we want but the fact of the matter is if the Braves would have made plays or scored some runs it would be a moot point. Perhaps the runner was out at second. But don't give the 8th hitter a cookie with the pitcher on deck or tell Omar Infante to field a routine ground ball and it doesn't matter. Perhaps Michael Young didn't check his swing on that pitch (one of the loosest rules in baseball) but don't give up a bomb the next pitch.

The teams that win are making plays and the teams that lose are complaining about the umpires...

Chip R
10-08-2010, 01:44 PM
And these umpires are supposed to be the best of the best for the postseason.

Yeah, that's not necessarily so. C.B. Bucknor, of all people, was an umpire in the post season last year.

sivman17
10-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Oh, sorry I didn't realize this discussion was going on in that other thread.

Mods feel free to merge.

Redsfan320
10-08-2010, 01:50 PM
No, it's good that you made this thread. That was turning into a whole other discussion, and starting to hijack the other thread.

320

The Operator
10-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Yeah, that's not necessarily so. C.B. Bucknor, of all people, was an umpire in the post season last year.:eek:

CB was a postseason umpire last year? He was a joke at 1B in the recent Reds-Pads series. I even remember Chris Welsh commenting "Maybe CB will get one right at some point today."

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 01:53 PM
It has to be an odd feeling for an umpire after he makes a controversial call and he has to stand out there knowing that people are staring at him knowing he botched the ball.

.

It is the same feeling a player gets when he makes a bone headed play or he makes an error. It is a mistake. It is part of the game. It isn't life or death. You can't change what happened so I try to forget about it and move on.

cumberlandreds
10-08-2010, 02:01 PM
:eek:

CB was a postseason umpire last year? He was a joke at 1B in the recent Reds-Pads series. I even remember Chris Welsh commenting "Maybe CB will get one right at some point today."

IIRC,I don't think umpires are chosen for the post season on merit. It's on a rotating basis. Which,if true, is a total joke.

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 02:05 PM
IIRC,I don't think umpires are chosen for the post season on merit. It's on a rotating basis. Which,if true, is a total joke.

I am sure quota's need to be met also.

Which explains why C.B. is in the post season.

Chip R
10-08-2010, 02:14 PM
IIRC,I don't think umpires are chosen for the post season on merit. It's on a rotating basis. Which,if true, is a total joke.


It used to be rotating. Then it was merit. Now I think it's seniority and merit but 70-30 or 80-20 seniority.

edabbs44
10-08-2010, 02:15 PM
What we are finding out in the playoffs so far is that replay needs to be expanded post haste. IMO,umpiring is at its all time worst. I go back 40 years watching baseball and I can't remember umpiring being consistently bad as it has been this season. Bud and the owners need to get their head out of the sand and expand replay as much as possible. If umpires aren't capable of making the right calls then they need a little help. Just make too much sense.

I wonder if the umpiring is truly at its all time nadir or if there is just way more discussion due to technology both on (automating certain parts of the games) and off (using internet as a way to spread information) the field.

sivman17
10-08-2010, 02:27 PM
It is the same feeling a player gets when he makes a bone headed play or he makes an error. It is a mistake. It is part of the game. It isn't life or death. You can't change what happened so I try to forget about it and move on.


You could.. if there was replay.

TheNext44
10-08-2010, 02:45 PM
People talk about the human element being essential for the game, but lets not forget that the reason why humans were used to make these calls originally, was only because that was the best option at the time.

I am positive that if they had replay in the 1860's, they would have used it to help make calls. I see no reason why a billion dollar game refuses to use the best technology available to make the game as fair as possible. Does anyone think that having games decided by blown calls makes it a better game?

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 02:50 PM
People talk about the human element being essential for the game, but lets not forget that the reason why humans were used to make these calls originally, was only because that was the best option at the time.

I am positive that if they had replay in the 1860's, they would have used it to help make calls. I see no reason why a billion dollar game refuses to use the best technology available to make the game as fair as possible. Does anyone think that having games decided by blown calls makes it a better game?

I have no problem with replay being used as long as it doesn't get out of hand and is used 5-6 times a game. However this idea being bantered around about balls and strikes being called with a questec type system is not going to happen in our life times if ever.

sivman17
10-08-2010, 03:50 PM
I have no problem with replay being used as long as it doesn't get out of hand and is used 5-6 times a game. However this idea being bantered around about balls and strikes being called with a questec type system is not going to happen in our life times if ever.

I agree that it can get out of hand if not handled correctly. Frankly, I get annoyed watching college football cause it seems like they review EVERYTHING. I like the NFL how it's based on coach's challenge.

MLB could do a similar thing where a manager gets 2 challenges a game. If he gets a challenge right, he gets to keep it. I'm not sure why in the NFL you have to get both right to get another challenge, but that's another discussion.

Tennis does it better than anyone in my opinion. The player challenges take up virtually no time and keeps the game moving and the calls correct. The LLWS challenges this year took an average of 45 seconds. That's less time spent on managers coming out and arguing close calls.

Roy Tucker
10-08-2010, 04:09 PM
So we'll be seeing red beanbags flying out of the dugout? :)

My overriding concern about integrating technology is disrupting the flow of the game. It has the potential to be Pandora's Box.

Like many have mentioned, college football is ridiculous with the interruptions due to booth review when even I can see there is no dispute. Move on, please.

Ron Madden
10-08-2010, 04:32 PM
I don't know if there are more bad umps now than there used to be or not.

Umpires are gonna miss some calls, what tics me off is when they blow a call without asking the other members of the crew for help.

I'll never forget the blown call by Ken Burkhart on a play at home plate in the 1970 World Series.

George Anderson
10-08-2010, 04:36 PM
.

I'll never forget the blown call by Ken Burkhart on a play at home plate in the 1970 World Series.

This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.

UKFlounder
10-08-2010, 04:50 PM
The problem I have with instant replay is how do you decide which plays are reviewable and which are not? If you review everything, including balls & strikes, it could take forever.

If you limit it, however, what happens when an error is made on a non-reviewable play? It will be just like now. Like in the NFL, if a cornerback grabs a WR's arm before the ball is there and the ref does not call it, the offense is out of luck, even though that play may cost them the game.

Having some plays reviewable and some not seems half-(donkeyed) to me, but the other approach really is not reasonable either.

Why do some errors need to be fixed and others fine to happen as they do?

Ron Madden
10-08-2010, 05:01 PM
This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.

Yep, he got tangled up and actually had his back to the play.

RedsBaron
10-08-2010, 05:35 PM
Joe Posnanski today wrote that we have a situation of where terrible umpiring calls are deciding games "while baseball gurus just sit back like the wrestling referee who doesn't notice that one guy brought a metal chair into the ring."
As TheNext44 said, if the technology we have today had existed in the 1860s it would have been used. I like baseball tradition as much as anyone else, but I have no objection to night baseball even though the 1869 Red Stockings didn't use it. MLB should put one umpire up in a booth who can review replays and correct obviously blown calls in the field, even if we have to wait for technology that will properly call balls and strikes. Such an umpire could probably do so in less time than is now spent by managers and players arguing with umpires.
Yes, bad calls by umpires have been part of the game. Allowing pitchers to throw baseballs blackened with mud, grease and anything else was once part of the game. Not wearing batting helmets was once part of the game. Only allowing white players to participate was once part of the game. Some traditions should be abandoned.
I want the Reds to win the 2010 World Series. If that cannot occur then I am getting to the point of actually hoping an obviosuly blown call by an umpire decides the World Series, in the hope that perhaps that will get Bud Selig's head out of his rear end.

RedsManRick
10-08-2010, 05:40 PM
I agree that it can get out of hand if not handled correctly. Frankly, I get annoyed watching college football cause it seems like they review EVERYTHING. I like the NFL how it's based on coach's challenge.

MLB could do a similar thing where a manager gets 2 challenges a game. If he gets a challenge right, he gets to keep it. I'm not sure why in the NFL you have to get both right to get another challenge, but that's another discussion.

Tennis does it better than anyone in my opinion. The player challenges take up virtually no time and keeps the game moving and the calls correct. The LLWS challenges this year took an average of 45 seconds. That's less time spent on managers coming out and arguing close calls.

The Big 10 handles replay exclusively via an official in the booth who reviews every play (http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/big10-replay.html) on the monitor as it occurs. When he needs time to verify a call, he signals the refs on the field that a replay is necessary. If there is indisputable video evidence, the call is corrected. If not, that's that and play continues.

In the Big 10, this averages less than once per game. Studies of MLB have shown a similar, or just slightly higher, frequency. I think this is the best middle ground. It's quick. It cannot be abused by either team, not come up against a situation where an error was made but the manager ran out of protests. And it also takes the decision to replay out of the hands of the umps, so their embarrassment, stubbornness, or even over-cautiousness doesn't come in to play.

We debate this issue like we have to come up with the perfect system. We don't, let's just come up with one that's better than what we've got now. It will never be perfect, but it's silly to accept potentially game-altering mistakes that can be easily and quickly rectified, often much more quickly than the current manager-waddles-out-to-throw-a-tantrum-and-the-umpires-have-to-huddle model.

Limit it to plays that can quickly and easily be confirmed (fair-foul, out-safe on the bases, HR-not a HR, catch or trap and you get 90% of the way there in a completely painless fashion. Again, if it's not clear, it stands as called. Let's not over-complicate this. Even make it "fun" by displaying the call on the scoreboard, which would also be used to announce that the play is under review. The only complication I can think of is what to do with the runners when an out is called on a ball that actually fell in. But that can't be too hard to figure out.

In the long run, I still think there's a better solution for balls & strikes (I prefer piloting a simple, hand-held red/green indicator linked to Pitchf/x to be used by the umps as an assistance mechanism, if only to help them learn the zone in real time). And of course we need a clear rule on what constitutes a swing (I'd go with barrel of the bat over any part of the plate).

Really, we're arguing at the margins at this point. Let's at least made the common sense adjustments, see how it works, and go from there.

_Sir_Charles_
10-08-2010, 05:54 PM
This play alone makes my case for why umpiring today is light years better than it was 20-30 years ago. If you look at the pic, Burkhart was right in the middle of the play. In todays game, you will not see an umpire today that close to a play. They will be a good ten feet away from the play at the plate in order to get a good view of the play and also not accidentally get involved in the play.

George is absolutely correct. Today's umps do a darned fine job IMO. Sure, you'll always have the occasional missed call, but how often on those bang-bang plays are they spot on? Pretty much everytime.

For those who disagree....check this out. Can you even imagine seeing something like this in TODAY'S game?

http://www.authenticsignedsports.com/prodimgs/prod_9252-jx1e46.jpg

RedsBaron
10-08-2010, 09:01 PM
An imcompetent umpire just awarded Chase Utley first base on a ball that did not hit him. The replay clearly showed that Utley wasn't hit, but replay wasn't necessary. You do not get hit by a triple digit Chapman fastball and then trot to first base.
Okay the umpire blew the call but the important thing we preserved our tradition of not using any technology that didn't exist in 1860 to check on umpires.

savafan
10-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Another incompetent umpire called Utley safe at 2nd...

Brutus
10-08-2010, 09:13 PM
An imcompetent umpire just awarded Chase Utley first base on a ball that did not hit him. The replay clearly showed that Utley wasn't hit, but replay wasn't necessary. You do not get hit by a triple digit Chapman fastball and then trot to first base.
Okay the umpire blew the call but the important thing we preserved our tradition of not using any technology that didn't exist in 1860 to check on umpires.

Clearly? I didn't think it was very clear. You can't make heads from tails on that replay. I think he wasn't hit, but I didn't think there was anything clear about it.

The problem I had with that play is that the umpire flinched on the ball just like the batter and catcher, and I don't think he saw it. I think he let Utley's reaction dictate the call. But I don't think it was clear one way or another.

RedsBaron
10-08-2010, 09:14 PM
Joe Posnanski today wrote that we have a situation of where terrible umpiring calls are deciding games "while baseball gurus just sit back like the wrestling referee who doesn't notice that one guy brought a metal chair into the ring."


I'm quoting myself quoting Joe Posnanski, becuae I like Posnanski's quote.
The Reds have made 4 errors thus far tonight, which means their performance in the field has been much better than that of the umpires.

bucksfan2
10-08-2010, 09:30 PM
Say what you will about this game. The tying run scored by Utley unproperlly being awarded 1st base, advancing to 2nd on a bad call, and then missing 3rd base and scoring a run. Granted the Reds would have had to appeal at 3rd. Replays would have shown Utley was never hit by the pitch and out at 2nd. I say this because make what you want about the 3 run 7th inning it was aided by the umpires. Had Utley never been awarded 1st base that inning may have never happened. But thanks to the umpiring, and the Reds misplays, the Phillies scored 3 runs in that inning. It changed the game and just may have changed the series.

mth123
10-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Say what you will about this game. The tying run scored by Utley unproperlly being awarded 1st base, advancing to 2nd on a bad call, and then missing 3rd base and scoring a run. Granted the Reds would have had to appeal at 3rd. Replays would have shown Utley was never hit by the pitch and out at 2nd. I say this because make what you want about the 3 run 7th inning it was aided by the umpires. Had Utley never been awarded 1st base that inning may have never happened. But thanks to the umpiring, and the Reds misplays, the Phillies scored 3 runs in that inning. It changed the game and just may have changed the series.

I don't think its so obvious. No one on the Reds argued him taking his base. Not Chapman. Not Hanigan. Not Dusty. I'm guessing its because it really did hit him.

This team was beaten by free baserunners from errors, walks and HBP.

SMcGavin
10-08-2010, 09:40 PM
Clearly? I didn't think it was very clear. You can't make heads from tails on that replay. I think he wasn't hit, but I didn't think there was anything clear about it.

The problem I had with that play is that the umpire flinched on the ball just like the batter and catcher, and I don't think he saw it. I think he let Utley's reaction dictate the call. But I don't think it was clear one way or another.

Maybe not 100% clear, but after watching it I am pretty sure that ball didn't hit Utley. And I'm certain he was out at 2nd base. Reds were in the process of killing themselves so maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but that was a pathetic inning of umpiring. Unexcusable when there is a simple solution that could correct these calls if only MLB would agree to use it.

RedsBaron
10-08-2010, 09:43 PM
Unexcusable when there is a simple solution that could correct these calls if only MLB would agree to use it.

No, no, no! We've gotta preserve our tradition of not correcting terrible umpiring calls.

Brutus
10-08-2010, 09:49 PM
Maybe not 100% clear, but after watching it I am pretty sure that ball didn't hit Utley. And I'm certain he was out at 2nd base. Reds were in the process of killing themselves so maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but that was a pathetic inning of umpiring. Unexcusable when there is a simple solution that could correct these calls if only MLB would agree to use it.

I rewound it 5 times and I still can't tell. My inkling is that it didn't hit him, but I don't see how anyone can be sure one way or another.

BoydsOfSummer
10-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Someone should mention to The Bud that he should think about all that extra commercial time he could sell as a result of replay delays. That'll get it done.

Reds Fanatic
10-08-2010, 10:05 PM
Umps just blew another call in the Braves series. Cox just got tossed. MLB and Selig should be embarrassed by the umps this postseason. They have had a big part in too many games with totally blown calls.

Ron Madden
10-08-2010, 10:11 PM
The sad thing is these umps are supposed to be the cream of the crop.

savafan
10-08-2010, 10:13 PM
The sad thing is these umps are supposed to be the cream of the crop.

When you separate the chaff from the chaff, you've still got chaff.

Reds Fanatic
10-08-2010, 10:18 PM
The sad thing is a lot of these calls could easily be quickly overturned by replay. You don't need to stop the whole game for minutes and take all the umps off the field. Just have a replay official in a booth that can buzz down if they see something (not balls and strikes but other plays) that is obviously wrong.

Like tonight easily someone could have seen Utley was never hit buzz down to the ump they could have called him back and the AB continues.

I(heart)Freel
10-08-2010, 10:20 PM
Say what you will about this game. The tying run scored by Utley unproperlly being awarded 1st base, advancing to 2nd on a bad call, and then missing 3rd base and scoring a run. Granted the Reds would have had to appeal at 3rd. Replays would have shown Utley was never hit by the pitch and out at 2nd. I say this because make what you want about the 3 run 7th inning it was aided by the umpires. Had Utley never been awarded 1st base that inning may have never happened. But thanks to the umpiring, and the Reds misplays, the Phillies scored 3 runs in that inning. It changed the game and just may have changed the series.

This is where I am.

If Utley was legitimately on base and legitimately safe at second, then I can stomach the errors and say, the Reds beat themselves.

I can't say that right now. And therefore I am too angry to see straight.

Just sick to my stomach.

mth123
10-09-2010, 04:22 AM
The sad thing is a lot of these calls could easily be quickly overturned by replay. You don't need to stop the whole game for minutes and take all the umps off the field. Just have a replay official in a booth that can buzz down if they see something (not balls and strikes but other plays) that is obviously wrong.

Like tonight easily someone could have seen Utley was never hit buzz down to the ump they could have called him back and the AB continues.

Agree about how to use replay. The reason NFL style replay is disliked so much is because the officials insited the guys on the field be the ones to make the call. This makes it a huge production with a stoppage in play. If we can see on TV in a matter of seconds that a call is wrong, so can an umpire/official in the booth and it can be used to correct things with little or no play stoppage. Replay isn't the issue, its the production that is made of it by having the guys on the field leave their posts to go look at it.

WMR
10-09-2010, 04:25 AM
I guess they're trying their best but man do they suck. :(

GAC
10-09-2010, 04:51 AM
I think these missed calls have always been around.

Its just that every game is televised now in High Definition and 19 different camera angles and 60 fps that show everything in great detail millisecond by millisecond.

My comment isn't meant as an excuse, but just more that technology has exposed a long-standing problem.

Exactly. The umps haven't got a chance when pitted against technology. We can sit in the comfort of our living room while the crew replays it in slo-mo and from 20 different angles.

And I'm like you Roy - it's not that I'm making excuses, and don't even scream at the umpire (TV) myself, but they've got a split second to make a crucial call, and an overwhelming majority of the time they get it right.

I think there should be some form of instant replay/review, but don't ask me how it should be done. :p: