2011 Redlegs

[Oxblood]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Chapman
Bailey

[aldotcs]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Chapman
Bailey

Still like Phillips at second and think someone else should play third (not likely!). I still like Cueto in the pitching lineup. He didn't pitch badly, just no run support.
I know they are grooming Chapman to start, but is that really a good idea? Did he start when he played in Cuba?

[TC81190]

Still like Phillips at second and think someone else should play third (not likely!). I still like Cueto in the pitching lineup. He didn't pitch badly, just no run support.
I know they are grooming Chapman to start, but is that really a good idea? Did he start when he played in Cuba?
Chapman has always been a SP until mid season.

[aldotcs]

Chapman has always been a SP until mid season.

Good to know. Thanks!

[Oxblood]

Forgot about Alonso, if we can find a spot for him that would be great as well.

[Billy_Bearcat]

Forgot about Alonso, if we can find a spot for him that would be great as well.

Can't see him being anything but trade bait.

[Krawhitham]

Forgot about Alonso, if we can find a spot for him that would be great as well.

Alonso is not ready for next season and can not play any position besides 1st base, he is nothing but trade bait

[WildcatFan]

I think Jocketty has to look at the LF situation. The free agency pool is pretty limited to Crawford and Werth, with some fringe guys like Podsednik and Coco Crisp, and some guys who have no business playing defense in the National league like Ordonez, Damon, and Guerrero. Can we deal with Gomes or Heisey in left field next season and sit through their massive slumps and miserable (Gomes) and spotty (Heisey) defense? My lineup looks like this as it stands now:

CF Stubbs
2B Phillips
RF Bruce
1B Votto
3B Rolen
LF Who knows, but I'll go with Balentien
C Hanigan
SS Janish

Left field is the wild card. I'd love to have Coco Crisp if the A's don't pick up his option

[FlyerFanatic]

no cueto or volquez in the rotation? find that hard to believe. volquez got the ball game 1, cueto game 3. how are they suddenly not in the rotation? especially with a volquez coming back from TJ and time to work the kinks out some more

[Krawhitham]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Chapman
Bailey

what did you do with volquez, cueto, phillips? If you want them traded who do you want in return?

[Jefferson24]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Chapman
Bailey

Cueto and Volquez must be there, Philips will too. LF needs upgraded.
This original post makes little sense to me.

[Oxblood]

Definitely Trade Volquez, let's see if we can get Hamilton. ;)

[KOBasinger]

Yeah , not sure why you left Cueto and Volquez both off the rotation? Explain please.

Also , Phillips..I wouldn't mind Valaika there after seeing what he's capable of. Love some Brandon Phillips but he is expendable.

[TC81190]

Deal Cordero with prospects to whoever.

Deal Volquez or Cueto with Mesoraco/Frazier/Duran/Whatever to KC for Greinke

Trade prospects to Arizona for Stephen Drew

Sign Crawford.

Rotation:
Greinke
Arroyo
Wood
Cueto/Volquez
Bailey

BP:
Masset
Rhodes
Bray
Burton

2B Phillips
LF Crawford
1B Votto
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
SS Drew
C Hanigan

Let the bench work itself out from leftover prospects and veterans signed for ST.

That's a good team.

[Oxblood]

This is more of what I would like to see, not what it will actually look like. I think the lineup I posted would serve us best to make another appearance in the playoffs next season.

Cueto's stock is sky-high at this point, move him, don't trust him. Let Edinson start the season in the rotation and hope he does good enough to raise stock, move him, don't trust him. Can't win with 'em.... wait. I'm samurai mike and I stop 'em cold...

[R_Webb18]

Deal Cordero with prospects to whoever.

Deal Volquez or Cueto with Mesoraco/Frazier/Duran/Whatever to KC for Greinke

Trade prospects to Arizona for Stephen Drew

Sign Crawford.

Rotation:
Greinke
Arroyo
Wood
Cueto/Volquez
Bailey

BP:
Masset
Rhodes
Bray
Burton

2B Phillips
LF Crawford
1B Votto
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
SS Drew
C Hanigan

Let the bench work itself out from leftover prospects and veterans signed for ST.

That's a good team.

if I had to guess Chapman will be on a team.

[TC81190]

if I had to guess Chapman will be on a team.
I'd keep him in AAA for awhile to get him stretched back out to starting and ready to move back into the rotation.

[redsfan_12]

I don't think Chapman should be a starter next year. Give him a full season as a reliever here, then let him Start in 2012

[TC81190]

I don't think Chapman should be a starter next year. Give him a full season as a reliever here, then let him Start in 2012
If that happened I don't think he'd ever go back. That'd really mess with his development. Time to end the experiment now.

[Vottomatic]

My $.02

HRamirez SS
CCrawford LF
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Rolen/Francisco 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Felix Hernandez
Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez

Closer - Chapman

Unload Cordero and Phillips

[James B.]

I think we need to keep this team together and not make big changes. Sure we can upgrade at a few spots but we need to keep the core together. The only changes that I would make is Janish at short and sign Werth for left field. I also wouldn't mind seeing Bailey being given a shot at closer. He looked electric last night and Cordero has struggled all year.

[Hillsdale87]

My $.02

HRamirez SS
CCrawford LF
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Rolen/Francisco 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Felix Hernandez
Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez

Closer - Chapman

Unload Cordero and Phillips

I would be thrilled with that lineup, but who are we trading to get Ramirez and Hernandez? It would take alot more than Cordero and Phillips. I don't think either of those teams would take those guys. Also, payroll would have to increase quite a bit to make that lineup possible.

[Vottomatic]

I would be thrilled with that lineup, but who are we trading to get Ramirez and Hernandez? It would take alot more than Cordero and Phillips. I don't think either of those teams would take those guys. Also, payroll would have to increase quite a bit to make that lineup possible.

I was kind of joking.

I realize to get Hanley Ramirez and Felix Hernandez, you'd have to trade the same huge group of prospects for each, so it ain't happening.

My problem is that this team needs 3 things:
1. Leadoff hitter/tablesetter
2. Ace starting pitcher
3. Solid imposing bat behind Votto in the lineup to protect him from being pitched around.

We can't afford all 3 of those, but I wish we could.

[CySeymour]

My problem is that this team needs 3 things:
1. Leadoff hitter/tablesetter
2. Ace starting pitcher
3. Solid imposing bat behind Votto in the lineup to protect him from being pitched around.

We can't afford all 3 of those, but I wish we could.

You and I are in agreement on these. And I think you have things in the right order. The top trading chips would be Alonso, Mes, and any pitcher not named Arroyo. I'm not saying we SHOULD trade any of the starters, just saying that's who we have to trade. So, that's Walt's task for the offseason, and his history show's that's his strength.

[webbbj]

I was kind of joking.

I realize to get Hanley Ramirez and Felix Hernandez, you'd have to trade the same huge group of prospects for each, so it ain't happening.

My problem is that this team needs 3 things:
1. Leadoff hitter/tablesetter
2. Ace starting pitcher
3. Solid imposing bat behind Votto in the lineup to protect him from being pitched around.

We can't afford all 3 of those, but I wish we could.

i'd love to get an ace pitcher but you might already have one on the team
i think id wait til the trade deadline to see if anyone emerges as a #1 type guy, if noone does then i go out and get 1.

i think we trade prospects for LF

i havent seen this brought up but does anyoe think the reds would consider moving phillips to SS to open a postion for valika at 2B? phillips has played SS in the past and is our most athletic infielder on the team so i think it could be a possibility.

[roby]

Yeah , not sure why you left Cueto and Volquez both off the rotation? Explain please.

Also , Phillips..I wouldn't mind Valaika there after seeing what he's capable of. Love some Brandon Phillips but he is expendable.

Trade Barndon? NO!!!!

[Vottomatic]

Trade Barndon? NO!!!!

Probably stuck with Barndon (Brandon). No other team in their right minds would pay him $11M next year. He's second behind Cordero in stupid contracts.

[757690]

Cueto's stock is sky-high at this point, move him, don't trust him.

The Expos thought the same thing of Pedro in '97. ;)

[Natty Redlocks]

I think Chone Figgins would be a good fit for this team. He could play LF every day, unless Rolen is out, then he plays third while Gomes plays left. Basically, Gomes and Rolen share a spot in the lineup with Figgins Dusty-proofing the leadoff spot. The only problem is that Seattle probably has no plans to deal him. He'd fit into the budget way better than Crawford, though.

[757690]

Probably stuck with Barndon (Brandon). No other team in their right minds would pay him $11M next year. He's second behind Cordero in stupid contracts.

Brandon Phillips has already produced over $16M of surplus value to the Reds over his contract, and he still has a year to go on it. So even if he does nothing next year, his contract will have been on of smartest moves by the Reds in a long time. If he matches his worst year as a Red next season, he will have provided $30M in excess value over the length of his contract.

He is scheduled to make $11M next year, and he should earn every penny of it plus a lot more.

He is a steady 4 win player under 30, which is difficult to find. I actually would like to see the Reds try to extend him.

[TeamSelig]

We had a good run, but I think we need to make some major moves in order to take it to the next level.

Decline options on Cabrera, Gomes, and Harang.

This trade is kinda playstation-ish but I wonder if it would be possible...

1st Move: Edinson Volquez, Mike Leake, Yonder Alonso, Jordan Smith, Zack Cozart or Chris Valaika for Josh Johnson, Hanley Ramirez.

I think FLA considers this but maybe I'm way off...

Young proven #2-3 starter w/ #1 potential + Young proven #3 starter [#1-2 potential] for Johnson.

Good 1B prospect/MLB ready, MLB ready INF prospect with a great glove, and a young 7th/8th inning reliever for Hanley Ramirez


2nd Move: Sign Carl Crawford.


Lineup:

LF Crawford
SS Ramirez
1B Votto
RF Bruce
3B Rolen
2B Phillips
CF Stubbs
C Hanigan/Hernandez

Bench: Cairo, Heisy, Nix, Janish, Francisco

Tons of speed (SB: Crawford 47, Ramirez 32, Stubbs 30, Votto 16, Phillips 16). Check out that OF defense. Plus defender literally at every position. This would be a dynamic and exciting team to watch.

Rotation
SP Johnson
SP Cueto
SP Arroyo
SP Wood
SP Bailey

Bailey's IP limit will be about 150 next season, so the 5th starter spot is ideal for him IMO. Once he hits his limit, he can come out of the bullpen in the post season (thought he looked really good last night). Johnson gives us a legit #1 starter.

Chapman stays in the BP, ready to become the closer when Coco explodes.

RHP Cordero
LHP Chapman
RHP Masset
LHP Rhodes
RHP Ondrusek
LHP Bray

May need to cut ties with Cairo (if he won't re-sign a cheap deal) and add a long reliever to the pitching staff.


My main point is that I think we need to consolidate some of our talent. We NEED some more bats. Personally I'd be fine with Janish/Cabrera/Cozart at short, but we have to upgrade somewhere. Ideally, we could pick up a monster LF bat who isn't a complete slouch in the field. We also need to turn our top 7 or 8 starters into 1 or 2 great starters and 2 or 3 good starters.


Trade Bait:

2 of Volquez/Cueto/Wood/Bailey
1B Yonder Alonso..... great potential, I wish he could play LF

Surely these 3 players can land a big time LF or SS and a top end pitcher.

[Vottomatic]

I agree with your post in theory.

Nobody knows what another team would be willing to take for their #1 ace-starting pitcher (Greinke, Johnson, FHernandez, etc.). We just don't know what it'll take.

Cueto is a #2.
Arroyo is a #2/#3.
Bailey is a #3/#4.
Volquez is a #2/could be #1.
Wood is a #2/#3.
Leake is a #3.

In terms of quality, we have alot of similar pitchers with different styles and repertoires. So who do you trade?
And you have to consider that if Arroyo doesn't sign long term, that he is out of here either at the trade deadline or after next season.......which puts you one arm down.

Adding Hanley and Johnson adds a combined $19M next season, $29M in '12, and $29.5M in '13. We save $10M on Harang this year (we have to buy him out at $2M), and another $2M on Mike Lincoln. Cordero comes off the books after next season, saving another $12M. Phillips comes off the books after next season to, saving $11M. By the start of 2012, with Harang, Lincoln, Cordero, and Phillips all gone, the team will save approximately $35M over what they paid in 2010. So theortically, they could afford Hanley and Josh Johnson, but it only takes them through 2013 for Johnson, but Hanley is signed for $16M in '14.

I would love to sign Carl Crawford, but the Reds won't be able to compete for his services against the Yankees, Red Sox, and other big market teams. I would mark that idea off.

I would consider trading for Chris Young of the D-Backs. He comes relatively cheap at $5.2M in '11, $7.2M in '12, and $8.5M in '13. He's only 26 years old and has been playing in the majors since 2007. He hit 27 HR's, 91 rbis', 28 SB's, .257 batting average, and a .341 OBP. His best season ever while playing on a lousy team. Definitely improving every year. Make him the starting LFer. He currently plays CF, so you know he has a good arm.

SS Ramirez
CF Stubbs
1B Votto
LF Young
RF Bruce
2B Phillips
3B Rolen/Francisco
C Hanigan/Hernandez

#1 Josh Johnson
#2 Jonny Cueto
#3 Bronson Arroyo
#4 Travis Wood
#5 Volquez/Leake/Bailey - whoever isn't traded

CL - Cordero
RP - Masset
RP - Chapman
RP - Rhodes
RP - Ondrusek
RP - Bray
RP - Smith or someone else

[likemenow]

i think we could trade for hanley or johnson but both i just dont see that possible. i would absolutly love to have hanley on this team he is everything we need in this line up. one of the best all around hitters in the game i would give up almost anyhting for him.
yonder, devin and leake and see where that gets us. i would hate to trade devin but hanley would take us to the next level

[redsfanmia]

I think that the Reds should go to Votto and see if he is interested in a long term deal and if he is not I would look to deal him before his value declines. I would think that his value is at its peak and if he wants to get a mega deal then he needs to go now while the Reds can get the most in return.

[Natty Redlocks]

Ask yourself what it would take if another team wanted Votto. Then think about what it would take to get another team's best players.

[redsfanmia]

Ask yourself what it would take if another team wanted Votto. Then think about what it would take to get another team's best players.

My point exactly, I think that Votto would fetch a big haul and I think that his anxiety issues might rear its ugly head and his trade value will sink like that of Adam Dunn.

[mroby85]

2B- Phillips
SS- Cabrera
1B- Votto
LF- Werth
RF- Bruce
3B- Rolen
CF- Stubbs
C- Hanigan/Hernandez

Rotation
Cliff Lee
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto
Travis Wood
Mike Leake

Bailey
Massett
Ondrusek
Chapman
Rhodes
Bray

I would let Arroyo walk, and try to trade Coco, which I realize would be hard if not impossible to do, and go after Cliff Lee. This way they would have a top of the rotation ace and be able to compete in the playoffs after they got there.

They also need to bring in a left fielder, I just said Werth, i'm not sure who all is available outside of him and Crawford, but they're going to need someone who can hit tough lefties that take Votto/Bruce somewhat out of the equation, because Rolen, Gomes weren't getting the job done the 2nd half of the year. I would also want to bring Hernandez back because I'm not sure Hanigan can play every day, although I like him.

[New York Red]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C
I would be shocked if Phillips is gone and we don't bring in a quality position player - starter - to take his place in the lineup, albeit maybe not a second baseman. Dropping Phillips/Gomes and inserting Valaika/Heisey, without any other changes to the lineup, would definitely not be an upgrade.

[TeamSelig]

Do you think we could swing Arroyo to the Mets for Beltran? Maybe dump CoCo along with him?

Good bat, good speed, good defense all in one for our LF spot while 'fixing' our jam at the rotation and maybe dumping our closer... without adding any payroll. Sounds good to me.

This is Arroyo's last year of his contract and he's getting up there in age... I think it would be a good idea to dump him instead of our one of our young guns.

[Jack Burton]

Dusty's 2011 Reds

2B - Phillips
SS - Cab
1B - Votto
CF - Matthews Jr.
3B - Rolen
RF - Bruce
LF - Gomes
C - Hernandez

[brm7675]

My $.02

Stubbs CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Rolen 3B
Valaika 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Chapman
Bailey

Stubbs CF
Orlando SS
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF
Rolen 3B
Phillips 2B
Hanigan C

Leake
Wood
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez

Bailey will be traded/Chapman will spend a portion of next season working more on his starting ability. He will come up when either Bronson or Cueto is delt.

[brm7675]

2B- Phillips
SS- Cabrera
1B- Votto
LF- Werth
RF- Bruce
3B- Rolen
CF- Stubbs
C- Hanigan/Hernandez

Rotation
Cliff Lee
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto
Travis Wood
Mike Leake

Bailey
Massett
Ondrusek
Chapman
Rhodes
Bray

I would let Arroyo walk, and try to trade Coco, which I realize would be hard if not impossible to do, and go after Cliff Lee. This way they would have a top of the rotation ace and be able to compete in the playoffs after they got there.

They also need to bring in a left fielder, I just said Werth, i'm not sure who all is available outside of him and Crawford, but they're going to need someone who can hit tough lefties that take Votto/Bruce somewhat out of the equation, because Rolen, Gomes weren't getting the job done the 2nd half of the year. I would also want to bring Hernandez back because I'm not sure Hanigan can play every day, although I like him.

Lee will be a Yankee, with how bad their starting pitching is, they will outpay everyone to get him and give him more years, Lee will be a Yankee, take it to the bank.

[brm7675]

This trade is kinda playstation-ish but I wonder if it would be possible...

1st Move: Edinson Volquez, Mike Leake, Yonder Alonso, Jordan Smith, Zack Cozart or Chris Valaika for Josh Johnson, Hanley Ramirez.

I think FLA considers this but maybe I'm way off...


Do the words NCIH sound fimilar. The Fish will not part with either and sure wouldn't for what you are offering. Second Walt wouldn't make such a deal, no room on the books to pay for all of that.

[Vottomatic]

Do the words NCIH sound fimilar. The Fish will not part with either and sure wouldn't for what you are offering. Second Walt wouldn't make such a deal, no room on the books to pay for all of that.

Josh Johnson makes $7.75M in '11, and $13.75M in '12 & '13........hardly a high price to pay for a #1 starter. Heck, we're going to pay Arroyo $13M this upcoming season.

Hanley is the big price, making $11M in '11, $15M in '12, $15.5M in '13, and $16M in '14.

[Stray]

I heard that Jocketty said OCab's option is more than we were wanting to pay, and that if there isn't a medium ground met, Janish will be our SS. That is fine with me honestly, I don't see us going after Ramirez anyway. Janish has an amazing glove, and he's better with the bat than I thought he was.

[bounty37h]

I do wonder if they will splurge to get the missing pieces/shore up weak spots to take us to the next level as a team, or will FO sit back and say "we got them back to a playoff team this year, but the fans still didnt come"?

[cinreds21]

Do the words NCIH sound fimilar. The Fish will not part with either and sure wouldn't for what you are offering. Second Walt wouldn't make such a deal, no room on the books to pay for all of that.

He's right. As a Marlins fan and knowing how the Marlins work way better than the Reds, there is no way they are going to deal both JJ and Hanley (The Mudcats were with the Marlins for 6 years before the Reds so I know the entire system and all their management figures such as gm and coordinators personally). The Marlins looked into traded JJ last off-season but ended up signing him to his current contract, which is very team friendly.
Sorry guys, JJ isn't going anywhere. And I am almost as certain that Hanley isn't going either.
To get both, it would take a hell of a lot to get two of the best players in baseball. JJ one of the top 10, if not top 5 pitchers in baseball, while Hanley is one of the top 5. It would take 5 or 6 of the Reds prospects to even get the Marlins' attention.

Ricky Nolasco or Anibal Sanchez, on the other hand, may be available.

[brm7675]

Josh Johnson makes $7.75M in '11, and $13.75M in '12 & '13........hardly a high price to pay for a #1 starter. Heck, we're going to pay Arroyo $13M this upcoming season.

Hanley is the big price, making $11M in '11, $15M in '12, $15.5M in '13, and $16M in '14.

Like I said, no way in hell do the fish deal either. Second, while JJ salary isn't horrible, add both together and the huge contract Votto is going to get, that will Bruce and Stubbs will get in coming years as well as Cueto/Volquez and such.

[Vottomatic]

I heard that Jocketty said OCab's option is more than we were wanting to pay, and that if there isn't a medium ground met, Janish will be our SS. That is fine with me honestly, I don't see us going after Ramirez anyway. Janish has an amazing glove, and he's better with the bat than I thought he was.

Yeah, I read that quote on Lance's blog.

I'm fine going with Janish. Save the money, improve the defense, and stick him in the 8-hole of the lineup. We'll be fine.

[krm1580]

I would really have to take a look to find out what players are available that fit the bill, but one of the things that the Reds lineup desperately needs is some high contact, low strikeout grinders to make the lineup more difficult to pitch to.

When someone asks me about the Reds offense my answer is always "it can be good, but I don't trust it." Pretty much everybody here knows what I am talking about. On one hand they lead the league in offense and on the other hand they lead the league in being shut out. I think it is the way the lineup is constructed. You have 2 free swingers at the top of the lineup Cabrera and Phillips and then 100+ strikeout guys running 3-7. They crush mistakes but they also will get themselves out without the pitcher having to work to hard.

You look at the Phillies lineup and you immediately think of Rollins, Utley, Howard and Werth, but what makes them particularly difficult is the unsung guys in between. Victorino, Polanco & Ruiz. Those guys are not stars by any means but they are tough outs. They don't get themselves out swinging at bad pitches. They will repeatedly foul off tough pitches and at the very least run up pitch count.

Due to natural hitter progression, I expect Votto, Bruce and Stubbs to improve in 2011, but they really need to be a tougher hitting lineup next year.

[texasdave]

They also don't need the guy with the .303 OBP batting second. But that's a whole other story.

[Boss]

Lineup:
Stubbs CF .270 25 HR 40 SB
Phillips 2B .285 20 HR 20 SB
Votto 1B .325 40 HR
Bruce RF .290 30 HR
Rolen 3B .275 20 HR
Gomes LF .260 20 HR
Janish SS .260 8 HR
Hanigan C .300 5 HR/ Hernandez C .285 5 HR
Pitcher

Rotation:
Arroyo 3.75 ERA 17 W
Cueto 3.50 ERA 16 W
Volquez 3.20 ERA 18 W(If healthy) 4.55 ERA 11 W(If unhealthy)

[DirtyBaker]

Rotation:
Arroyo 3.75 ERA 17 W
Cueto 3.50 ERA 16 W
Volquez 3.20 ERA 18 W(If healthy) 4.55 ERA 11 W(If unhealthy)

A 3-man rotation...pretty ballsy. :cool:

[Boss]

Sorry, couldn't finish.

Wood 4.10 ERA 14 W
Bailey 4.00 ERA 15 W


Bullpin:
Cordero(Closer) 40 Sv 3.50 ERA
Chapman 5 Sv 2.00 ERA
Masset 2 Sv 3.20 ERA
Bray 3.80 ERA
Ondrusek 3.60 ERA
Burton 4.20 ERA
Leake(Long Man) 4.50 ERA 5 W

95 Wins
NL Central Champions