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edabbs44
10-11-2010, 02:24 PM
I didn't see anyone post this article, maybe someone did or maybe it got lost in the hoopla of this past week. But it is an interesting take from PDoc on some stuff that we don't hear about or see every day. Here's one excerpt.


Hatcher also relates this story: In September, while the Reds were in Houston, Rolen stayed at the home of Kevin Millar, a good friend and former major leaguer. Millar lives close to Reds right fielder Jay Bruce. One morning, Rolen and Millar picked up Bruce and spent time at a local batting cage, working on Bruce's swing. After the lesson, Bruce hit five homers in his last 38 regular-season at-bats.

Also some good stuff on Cabrera, Edmonds, Cordero (yes, Cordero), Cairo and others.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20101007/COL03/10080366/Doc-Reds-have-had-the-right-leaders

edabbs44
10-11-2010, 10:30 PM
So anyway, did anyone see the PDoc article on leadership? Good stuff.

The Operator
10-11-2010, 10:34 PM
Yes, I read it. Pretty good article.

Sounds like Edmonds helped Stubbs quite a bit too.

Unassisted
10-11-2010, 10:51 PM
The Reds went a decade with little or no player leadership. They had players who liked their own statistics.That's not going to go over well with some here. IMO it is a recurring theme in the media that must have some grain of truth to it.

I like the reference to Cairo helping the pitchers avoid tipping their pitches. During the NLDS, I noticed several instances of position players having serious-looking in-game conversations with pitchers in the dugout, most frequently Arroyo. It's good that the team isn't siloed into communicating by position or ethnicity or in any other discernible way.

reds44
10-11-2010, 10:54 PM
I wish leadership would have helped Rolen out in the playoffs.

edabbs44
10-11-2010, 10:56 PM
That's not going to go over well with some here. IMO it is a recurring theme in the media that must have some grain of truth to it.

I think it is more of some misunderstanding what is being said than anything.

VR
10-11-2010, 11:06 PM
I think it is more of some misunderstanding what is being said than anything.

What do you think was meant by it edabbs?


Nice article....good to see some player quotes.

CTA513
10-11-2010, 11:07 PM
I wish leadership would have helped Rolen out in the playoffs.

He was just playing bad so the younger guys would look better.

edabbs44
10-11-2010, 11:11 PM
What do you think was meant by it edabbs?


Nice article....good to see some player quotes.

I'm not getting into specifics. Happy to do it over PM but this is just a powder keg. I will say that I think the focus shouldn't be on a player by player basis. It was likely an overall culture thing.

edabbs44
10-11-2010, 11:12 PM
He was just playing bad so the younger guys would look better.

That's what a true leader does.

WVRedsFan
10-12-2010, 01:08 AM
I wish leadership would have helped Rolen out in the playoffs.Lots of our guys had a bad playoff series. We could go down the list, but it included the old and the young. There is a strong prejudice on this board against the old (which can be anywhere from 27-40) and the young. Rolen had a bad series, but so did most of the Reds, young and old. Sometimes you have to just say the other team was better. This was the case.

corkedbat
10-12-2010, 01:54 AM
Cordero doesn't surprise me a bit. I can see him having a big influense in the pen in general and especially with the latin members of the pitching staff.

corkedbat
10-12-2010, 01:58 AM
I wish leadership would have helped Rolen out in the playoffs.

He was just a one-mile horse in a mile-and-a-half race. Giving it all he had, but there wasn't much left.

Captain Hook
10-12-2010, 02:02 AM
He was just a one-mile horse in a mile-and-a-half race. Giving it all he had, but there wasn't much left.

So is this going to be a problem for the next two years?

The Operator
10-12-2010, 02:24 AM
So is this going to be a problem for the next two years?Very possibly.

Which is why finding an adequate fill in at 3B as well as someone to hit cleanup (or hoping that Jay Bruce is that guy) is going to be very important for next season.

corkedbat
10-12-2010, 02:26 AM
So is this going to be a problem for the next two years?

You can always hope not, but I'm afraid so. I don't think you can go into a season expecting more than 100-120 games a season and you have to find ways to rest him up. Time to start thinking about his replacement too. Maybe spend a high pick on a 3B. Don't know if Frazier will ever provide enough offense to be fulltime and D is always the question.

D is one of the main reasons Walt shipped EE to Toronto. I can't see him wanting JF's glove at the hot corner unless he shows major improvement.

Chip R
10-12-2010, 01:28 PM
So is this going to be a problem for the next two years?


We should have such problems.

Captain Hook
10-12-2010, 02:24 PM
We should have such problems.

I get that, but isn't now time worry about these kind of problems?We're not going to be bad team so next year how do we go from a good team to a great team?Having our cleanup hitter wear down at the end of the season seems to be a problem for a team that we know can win 90 games during the regular season.I'm not saying Scott is the biggest problem, but things should be handled differently next season to prevent Rolen from becoming a liability down the stretch and then in the playoffs.

Chip R
10-12-2010, 02:34 PM
I get that, but isn't now time worry about these kind of problems?We're not going to be bad team so next year how do we go from a good team to a great team?Having our cleanup hitter wear down at the end of the season seems to be a problem for a team that we know can win 90 games during the regular season.I'm not saying Scott is the biggest problem, but things should be handled differently next season to prevent Rolen from becoming a liability down the stretch and then in the playoffs.


I hear you but outside of trading/releasing him, what are you going to do? Dusty gave him all kinds of off days early in the season. He didn't even play in that infamous PIT series where the Reds were swept. Throughout the season, Dusty would rest him for a day game after a night game. If he was sore, Dusty would sit him. Outside of putting him on the DL until August, I'm not sure what more they can do to keep him from wearing down during Sept./Oct.

Captain Hook
10-12-2010, 02:56 PM
I hear you but outside of trading/releasing him, what are you going to do? Dusty gave him all kinds of off days early in the season. He didn't even play in that infamous PIT series where the Reds were swept. Throughout the season, Dusty would rest him for a day game after a night game. If he was sore, Dusty would sit him. Outside of putting him on the DL until August, I'm not sure what more they can do to keep him from wearing down during Sept./Oct.

Don't mess around in 2011.Scott says he can't play for more then 1 game, then he goes on the DL.I don't want to second guess how things were handled this year,but going into 2011 I think the team has what they need(in leadership) to get by a few weeks without their leader.If 30-45 games on the DL is what it's going to take to keep Rolen from looking completely spent at the end of the year then so be it.

Chip R
10-12-2010, 03:03 PM
Don't mess around in 2011.Scott says he can't play for more then 1 game, then he goes on the DL.I don't want to second guess how things were handled this year,but going into 2011 I think the team has what they need(in leadership) to get by a few weeks without their leader.If 30-45 games on the DL is what it's going to take to keep Rolen from looking completely spent at the end of the year then so be it.


Easier said than done. You put him on the DL and you risk downgrading the position not only defensively but offensively. I hate to break it to you but the Reds didn't exactly win the Central by 20 games. The Reds are no shoo-in to win the Central in 2011 so they actually have to win the wild card or the Central in order to go to the post season. This isn't the NBA where 16 teams make the playoffs and you can afford to rest your starters down the stretch. Broken down or not, Rolen wasn't the only Red to struggle in the post-season.

HokieRed
10-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Our going from a good to a great team--which I agree is exactly the issue--is going to have a lot less to do with 3b than with the rotation. And specifically with getting into the rotation the two guys with the most upside: Aroldis Chapman and Homer Bailey. How those two are pitching by July 1 is going to tell us a lot more about our chances to make/win the playoffs next year than what's happening at 3b.

Captain Hook
10-12-2010, 04:08 PM
Our going from a good to a great team--which I agree is exactly the issue--is going to have a lot less to do with 3b than with the rotation. And specifically with getting into the rotation the two guys with the most upside: Aroldis Chapman and Homer Bailey. How those two are pitching by July 1 is going to tell us a lot more about our chances to make/win the playoffs next year than what's happening at 3b.

I agree that what your saying can have a larger impact next season the what the Reds decide to do about Rolen wearing down. Rolens age and ability to be effective down the Streatch is a concern when talking about getting over the hump.

HokieRed
10-12-2010, 05:03 PM
I agree that what your saying can have a larger impact next season the what the Reds decide to do about Rolen wearing down. Rolens age and ability to be effective down the Streatch is a concern when talking about getting over hump.

Agree. I think keeping Rolen healthy is very important. We need somebody who brings a bat at 3b and the ability to start 60 games without a drop-off defensively. Unfortunately so far neither Juan Francisco nor Todd Frazier has established himself as that guy.

Big Klu
10-12-2010, 10:55 PM
There is a strong prejudice on this board against the old (which can be anywhere from 27-40)

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