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View Full Version : Speculation of injury to a Cardinals pitcher.


The Operator
10-11-2010, 05:50 PM
I figured this would be worth discussing here since they are division rivals and if these rumors are true it could have a huge effect on the 2011 season.

From the guys at birdsonthebat.org:

http://www.birdsonthebat.org/showthread.php?t=59292


Strauss tweets there's rumblings of a health problem with a member of the '10 rotation and that Dr. Andrews' name is being mentioned as well. Do the math...


Adam Wainwright did deal with some elbow pain late in the season but The Cards shrugged it off and kept running him out there to try and get the Cy Young Award. Could it be him? Carpenter is also a candidate considering his arm is usually hanging by a thread.

That's a darn shame if it's Wainwright. I know he's the opposition and him going down would help us, but I really like the way he pitches. I'd kill to have him on The Reds staff.

Discuss?
Homer Bailey
10-11-2010, 05:53 PM
For those on the ledge, my information is that Waino' is bueno.

http://twitter.com/JoeStrauss
edabbs44
10-11-2010, 05:54 PM
Thought about that when they were talking about shutting him dowwn.
WVRedsFan
10-11-2010, 05:57 PM
Must be Carpenter, then. He looked awfullly shaky in September. Really unlike him. Lohse has always been lousy, so who could tell if he was injured?
The Operator
10-11-2010, 05:57 PM
My guess is Carpenter then at this point.
Matt700wlw
10-11-2010, 06:02 PM
My guess is Carpenter then at this point.

How will he explain this to his son?
The Operator
10-11-2010, 06:06 PM
How will he explain this to his son?He'll say it was Scott Rolen's fault. :p:
The Operator
10-11-2010, 06:10 PM
This could actually end up hurting The Reds if it's a guy like Kyle Lohse, and if his contract is insured.

Lohse is locked up for 11.875M by The Cardinals for the next two years, so if he goes down for the year and they recoup any of that salary while also not being subjected to Kyle Lohse pitching, that could help them a lot.
Brutus
10-11-2010, 06:16 PM
My thought was either Carpenter or Garcia. But Carpenter really looked shaky down the stretch.
Oxilon
10-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Can you even have TJ surgery twice?
The Operator
10-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Can you even have TJ surgery twice?Yep, Darren Dreifort did.

I guess you can keep on having it over and over so long as you have somewhere to keep harvesting all those replacement ligaments from.
reds44
10-11-2010, 06:45 PM
How will he explain that to his son?
WVRed
10-11-2010, 07:00 PM
How will he explain that to his son?

I think Matt just asked that. :)
CarolinaRedleg
10-11-2010, 07:06 PM
How will he explain that to his son?

The gift that keeps on giving.:beerme:
Redsfan320
10-11-2010, 07:14 PM
"That Crooked Vulture" represents Reds fans very well there. Is he anyone from here?

320
Tornon
10-11-2010, 07:14 PM
Can you even have TJ surgery twice?

Did Paul Wilson have it twice too? Or did he just have every single type of surgery once
Brutus
10-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Did Paul Wilson have it twice too? Or did he just have every single type of surgery once

I think he diversified his portfolio
The Operator
10-11-2010, 07:52 PM
"That Crooked Vulture" represents Reds fans very well there. Is he anyone from here?

320That would be me, my good sir. :)
Scrap Irony
10-11-2010, 07:56 PM
If one of the Big Three (Wainwright, Garcia, or Carpenter) is unavailable for 2011, anyone else think the Cardinals might punt 2011 and rebuild a bit?

They already have some serious holes and little cash (apparently) to plug them with.
Redsfan320
10-11-2010, 07:58 PM
That would be me, my good sir.

Awesome. You're representing us well. :thumbup:

320
blumj
10-11-2010, 08:05 PM
Chad Fox had it twice. I thought Scott Wiliamson did, too?
The Operator
10-11-2010, 08:10 PM
Awesome. You're representing us well. :thumbup:

320Thank ya, I'm trying. It can be tough to post on rival message boards, but they are quite welcoming over there so long as you remember it's not your home and you act as a good guest.

I had heard bad things, but I think they're probably the best Cards forums out there. They are far from homers and they are mostly older, long-standing Cards fans that have seen a lot of baseball. The language over there can be a bit harsh but the overall content is usually good.
The Operator
10-13-2010, 07:09 PM
Turns out this was a non-pitching shoulder cleanup for Jake Westbrook.

I think Joe Strauss may have just been drumming up interest on his twitter, as this qualifies as non-news in my book.
PuffyPig
10-13-2010, 07:14 PM
This could actually end up hurting The Reds if it's a guy like Kyle Lohse, and if his contract is insured.

Lohse is locked up for 11.875M by The Cardinals for the next two years, so if he goes down for the year and they recoup any of that salary while also not being subjected to Kyle Lohse pitching, that could help them a lot.

Very few major league contracts are insured agaisnt injury, it would simply be too expensive.
Brutus
10-13-2010, 08:32 PM
Very few major league contracts are insured agaisnt injury, it would simply be too expensive.

It's extremely common to insure baseball contracts. A lot of teams insure through Lloyd's of London, though the last few years the number of contracts that are insured have dropped because of raised premiums and having problems getting paid out on some injuries. But insurance was very, very widely used until the last few years.

I saw data as of probably around 2004 that over a third of multi-year contracts were insured up to 50-80% of the total value.
bucksfan2
10-14-2010, 08:19 AM
It's extremely common to insure baseball contracts. A lot of teams insure through Lloyd's of London, though the last few years the number of contracts that are insured have dropped because of raised premiums and having problems getting paid out on some injuries. But insurance was very, very widely used until the last few years.

I saw data as of probably around 2004 that over a third of multi-year contracts were insured up to 50-80% of the total value.

I thought I had read somewhere that the insurance isn't really cut and dry. I remember this coming up with Jr. when he was off and on the DL during his time with the Reds. Every time he went on the DL it wasn't insured, but it was more for season ending, debilitating type of injuries.
Scrap Irony
10-14-2010, 09:06 AM
Insurance is a funny game. The Reds couldn't cover Junior and other, big-priced free agents were also uninsured. (ARod, IIRC, wasn't insured past a basic level with Texas.) Larkin, too, was considerd an injury risk and not covered. (Neither was Eric Milton or Paul Wilson, if I remember correctly.)

Insurance companies then got smarter and really began looking at their tables. They discovered that athlete insurance is a poor bet. Beltran wasn't covered for the Mets. Neither was Delgado. Not sure about Yankee or Red Sox free agents.

So they rarely do any contracts anymore at all.
Sea Ray
10-14-2010, 10:32 AM
Chad Fox had it twice. I thought Scott Wiliamson did, too?

Has anybody successfully had it twice? Jose Rijo had it 4 or 5 times but it wasn't successful
WVRed
10-14-2010, 10:35 AM
Turns out this was a non-pitching shoulder cleanup for Jake Westbrook.

I think Joe Strauss may have just been drumming up interest on his twitter, as this qualifies as non-news in my book.

How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his son?
camisadelgolf
10-14-2010, 10:36 AM
How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his son?
This should be old by now

































































































but it still cracks me up every time. :lol:
WVRed
10-14-2010, 10:41 AM
Couldn't resist.
westofyou
10-14-2010, 10:45 AM
I thought I had read somewhere that the insurance isn't really cut and dry. I remember this coming up with Jr. when he was off and on the DL during his time with the Reds. Every time he went on the DL it wasn't insured, but it was more for season ending, debilitating type of injuries.

IIRC the Kevin Brown contract ruined the insurance game for pitchers.
CarolinaRedleg
10-14-2010, 11:03 AM
How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his son?

http://kontraband.se/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/clapping.gif
Redsfan320
10-14-2010, 02:28 PM
The CC joke never gets old, nor does it get over-used. :clap:

320