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View Full Version : I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M



Kingspoint
10-15-2010, 04:34 PM
That way he and his .263/.303/.354 line and 36-year old Shortstop defense can hit the highway.

Walt has said that it's not prudent to give $4M to that kind of production when you've got a player at 1/10th the salary who plays lights-out better defense and actually hits better ready to take his place in Janish.

Janish only needs to cover Shortstop for 2011 and be a backup to Cozart who can take over in 2012, with more help on the way after that.

Cabrera is the type of player who thinks he's better than he is, so hopefully that carries him out of Cincinnati and onto another ballclub.

I'd rather have Janish' Defense and Janish' better On-Base-Percentage.

Janish' line: .260/.338/.385

Kingspoint
10-15-2010, 04:42 PM
The likely scenario is that he signs a 1-year deal for about $2.5M.

That's too much, but Dusty will be the reason why.

I woudn't want the guy if he was free.

Janish is flat out a better player Offensively, and they are at opposite ends of the spectrum defensively.

Kingspoint
10-15-2010, 04:46 PM
Oh.

And, with Rolen aging by the minute (anyone watch the playoffs?), the need for Janish' range at Shortstop is that much greater.

Just go away permanently, Orlando.

Jack Burton
10-15-2010, 05:23 PM
Give Janish a shot, he's earned it.

aldotcs
10-15-2010, 08:40 PM
It's been astounding that more people don't think of Janish as The Guy. He ably came in as backup and seamlessly became every day. If they need salary for other guys and Janish is more than capable, why work hard to keep Ocab?

KYRedLeg
10-15-2010, 08:44 PM
Janish is, without a doubt, my second favorite Red.

No, Cabrera isn't my first.

I loved watching Janish in August, and, while I don't want to see Cabrera injured, I was disappointed when he came back in. I really want to see Janish as our shortstop in 2011.

Hustleman
10-15-2010, 09:52 PM
It's been astounding that more people don't think of Janish as The Guy. He ably came in as backup and seamlessly became every day. If they need salary for other guys and Janish is more than capable, why work hard to keep Ocab?

agreed. i'd be more than fine with janish at SS and cabrera's money spent elsewhere

JKam
10-15-2010, 09:54 PM
I don't think Orlando is as bad as everyone makes him out to be defensively, but it is just a pleasure to watch Janish play defense. He makes just about every play and he makes it look routine.

Vottomatic
10-15-2010, 09:58 PM
Give Janish a shot, he's earned it.

Agreed.

And this is a payroll area where we have someone equal or better than Cabrera to replace him at the near minimum.

Let Janish start and Cozart back him up, ease his way into the big leagues, and we even have Valaika who played SS most of his time in the minors, if those two get hurt. It's a cheap solution that we lose nothing in terms of offense by doing.

We've got guys in triple A pushing for major league jobs. We can't hold them back forever by keeping aging veterans losing their defensive range and offensive ability.

Unlike catcher where it would probably be smart to bring back Ramon for one more year to allow Mesoraco a full year in triple A. If Mez tears it up, he will get his chance at some point considering both Ramon and Hanigan spent time on the DL at one point in the last 2 seasons.

Natty Redlocks
10-15-2010, 11:40 PM
The way I see it, it's Jocketty's job to Dusty-proof the lineup. I'm glad he signed Cabrera, now I'll be glad to see him not bring him back. I even have a farewell serenade prepared, just for him: YouTube - Old Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCnCsMlp4Lc&playnext=1&videos=aUwHJRmlLYw&feature=mfu_in_order)

Moosie52
10-16-2010, 12:49 AM
Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

Kingspoint
10-16-2010, 02:49 AM
Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

Old guys get injured a lot.

And that team chemistry contributed to how many post-season wins?

Orlando Cabrera is more likely a reason why the team won't win a World Series than why the team would win a World Series.

If team chemistry is contingent on "Orlando Cabrera", then the whole team needs to grow a pair and man up.

Not saying it was Cabrera, but it was the "Veterans" who choked during the playoffs, while the younger players didn't choke. When it all comes down to it, chemistry isn't going to win you games in the playoffs....talent is.

Vottomatic
10-16-2010, 06:48 AM
Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

It's a rarity, but I agree with Kingspoint.

They had their season to be lead by veterans. Now Votto, Bruce, and others need to step up and lead this team to the promised land.

Stray
10-16-2010, 09:55 AM
I'm pretty sure Walt knows that Janish is the only answer for us at SS next year. Isn't great with the bat, but he handles it well. When he's at the plate it gives Dusty a lot of options as well, since you can rely on him getting a bunt down, going the other way, or just putting it in play.

Everything I've heard about Cabrera this year from the team has been great, the type of guy he is, and the way he keeps the clubhouse loose...that's awesome and all, but you don't pay a guy just for that. Like Vottomatic above me said, it's now time for that leadership role to be taken over by our young stars...can't always rely on the old guys. If he takes a lot less money to come back I wouldn't mind having him to give Janish some days off, and be a PH utility type of player. He knows he can't hold up for an entire season... I highly doubt that happens however.

mlh1981
10-16-2010, 10:47 AM
I'll pass on a soon to be 37 year old shortstop.

While I have no doubt he's a great guy in the clubhouse, I think that stuff can be blown out of proportion sometimes. Winning breeds chemistry. Not the other way around.

Kiss the Baby00
10-16-2010, 03:08 PM
On paper I am fine to move forward without Cabrerra. In real life I think he is good for the Reds team chemistry. Ocab has been to the playoffs 5 years in a row on 5 different teams. He is doing something right.

fielder's choice
10-16-2010, 04:38 PM
On paper I am fine to move forward without Cabrerra. In real life I think he is good for the Reds team chemistry. Ocab has been to the playoffs 5 years in a row on 5 different teams. He is doing something right.

Like happening to be on good teams? There's a huge difference between correlation and causation.

Moosie52
10-16-2010, 05:16 PM
Then make him a coach if you don't want him playing. The post season, was it good for you? I pretty much had to fake it.

texasdave
10-16-2010, 06:01 PM
I think it is pretty telling that he has been on 5 different teams in 5 seasons.

Kingspoint
10-16-2010, 10:26 PM
I think it is pretty telling that he has been on 5 different teams in 5 seasons.

There it is right there.

I know that when I've been in charge of the hiring and firing of employees, I don't get rid of an employee that's good for the moral of the rest of the group. I can accept less production from someone like that. (But, I don't give that person the best leads (like batting 1st or 2nd), so that he can burn them (low OBP) at the expense of the whole team.)

DocRed
10-17-2010, 07:33 PM
The more that I think about it the more I think we should not resign him. This team is under a strict budget, I don't think we can spend freely, if we could then sure resign him. That being said use the $3 million we can save to go towards a quality LF or SP. Janish is more than capable of being a quality everyday SS IMO. The same applies unfortunately to Hernandez.

bounty37h
10-18-2010, 11:50 AM
I dont think we need to resign him, but I certainly am not going to bash him either. Thanks for your contributions and help getting this team back to the playoffs, and best wishes for your future.

GOBCU33
10-18-2010, 02:00 PM
in other news... Edgar Renteria is going to be available next year

Kiss the Baby00
10-18-2010, 09:53 PM
All indications are that the Reds aren't likely to pick up shortstop Orlando Cabrera's $4 million mutual option. If the club declines Cabrera's option, it will have to pay a $1 million buyout, but if Cabrera declines the option, the buyout is only $500,000. That doesn't necessarily mean Cabrera's stay in Cincinnati is ending after only one year. Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said he was interested in retaining the 35-year-old at a lower price. "We're not sure. We'll probably know something later this week," Jocketty said Monday from the team's complex at Goodyear, Ariz.

Source: Mark Sheldon

bounty37h
10-19-2010, 11:28 AM
I have never understood contracts, esp the part of option of him declining. "I dont want to play for you this year, give me $500,000 and I will leave" .

BigPoppa
10-20-2010, 02:26 AM
agreed. i'd be more than fine with janish at SS and cabrera's money spent elsewhere

This


I dont think we need to resign him, but I certainly am not going to bash him either. Thanks for your contributions and help getting this team back to the playoffs, and best wishes for your future.

and this

PeteRoseBelongs
10-20-2010, 11:24 AM
well now that Bruce qualifies as a Super Two I don't understand how you can validate paying O Cab. We need that money for Bruce and we still need to rectafy left field. I have also read that Ramon Hernandez contract for next year is in question while they want him back. They have that young catcher in the minors that they think will be up in the middle of the year.

if anyone has additional information please pass it along.

Jr's Boy
10-20-2010, 12:48 PM
I for one love our Sundeck GM's.:rolleyes:

Jack Burton
10-20-2010, 04:16 PM
If cabrera would have stayed on the DL I feel we could have beaten the Phils and would still be playing today. His return ruined our chemistry, not to mention he's a worse player than Janish.

Kingspoint
10-20-2010, 09:06 PM
...we still need to rectafy left field.

That might hurt.