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View Full Version : 2 moves that the Reds have to make this off season



fewfirstchoice
10-16-2010, 06:12 PM
First they need to trade for Matt Kemp to plug in Lf and hit #4 in the order. Id say this may work.

Yonder Alonso, J. Cueto, and J. Smith to the Dodgers

an Reds get Kemp and a prospect

Then they need to pry Greinke from the Royals.

Say send Leake, Merasco, Heisey, and Valaika to the Royals

the Reds get Greinke

Then the lineup looks like this.
SP
Grenike
Arroyo
Wood
Bailey
Chapman

BP
Cordero
Masset
Volquez
Bray
Rhodes
Ondrusek


Starters
C- Hannigan/Hernadez split time again
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Janish
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF-Bruce

Batting order
1) Stubbs
2) Bruce
3) Votto
4) Kemp
5) Rolen
6) Phillips
7) Hannigan/Hernandez
8) Janish

Thats a solid club right there.

mroby85
10-16-2010, 06:18 PM
First they need to trade for Matt Kemp to plug in Lf and hit #4 in the order. Id say this may work.

Yonder Alonso, J. Cueto, and J. Smith to the Dodgers

an Reds get Kemp and a prospect

Then they need to pry Greinke from the Royals.

Say send Leake, Merasco, Heisey, and Valaika to the Royals

the Reds get Greinke

Then the lineup looks like this.
SP
Grenike
Arroyo
Wood
Bailey
Chapman

BP
Cordero
Masset
Volquez
Bray
Rhodes
Ondrusek


Starters
C- Hannigan/Hernadez split time again
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Janish
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF-Bruce

Batting order
1) Stubbs
2) Bruce
3) Votto
4) Kemp
5) Rolen
6) Phillips
7) Hannigan/Hernandez
8) Janish

Thats a solid club right there.

I'm glad you aren't in charge, lol.

DocRed
10-16-2010, 06:26 PM
I'm glad you aren't in charge, lol.

Why? You aren't get going to good players for nothing. Reds fans tend to over-romanticize the quality of their players/prospects.

mroby85
10-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Why? You aren't get going to good players for nothing. Reds fans tend to over-romanticize the quality of their players/prospects.

1st of all Johnny Cueto, and Leake aren't prospects anymore, they've been very productive at the major league level.

On top of them you would be losing Jordan Smith, who has been pretty decent out of the bullpen. Yonder Alonso, Chris Heisey, and Chris Valaika.

I guess I don't look at losing Cueto, Leake, and 4 other guys with a lot of potential a wise move for the future. Especially when you're a team with a limited payroll like the Reds, depth is a beautiful thing. What are you going to do if you trade 6 of those guys for Grienke and then he has a major injury? Im not saying I wouldn't trade top prospects for him, but in these deals you're trading guys who are already producing well at the major league level, along with several top prospects. No thanks.

Krawhitham
10-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Kemp is only signed through 2011 (for 7 million) and then is a FA

Greinke makes 11:$13.5M, 12:$13.5M and then is a FA

You're adding 20 million and removing very little about 2 million

7 players for 2 seams a little extreme when you could lose the 2 in just a couple years because of FA

webbbj
10-16-2010, 08:16 PM
no mention of volquez in this post? fore shaowing? i think yall are giving up your hopes this offseason which is likely to have little activity. i think the reds come back w/ about the same cast of characters next season.

Vottomatic
10-16-2010, 09:13 PM
I'm glad you aren't in charge, lol.

Me too. :eek:

The reason we're winning now is because 40% of our 25-man roster came through our farm system.

Sure, some of our guys have 2 to 3 years in the majors under their belts, but they should only continue to improve with more seasons.

We need to tweak the roster, not overhaul it.

Agree that Kemp for 1 year is not worth those guys.

I'm up for getting Greinke, and like his contract amounts considering he's a #1 type starter. I'd be more forgiving regarding who'd we'd have to trade for Greinke.

scott91575
10-17-2010, 12:22 AM
Alonso, Smith, and Cueto for Kemp? Way too much. Straight up for Cueto would be enough (with maybe a low level throw in). Other than that, I am not sure the Dodgers are looking for prospects. Who knows what they would want with their ownership issues. Yet your trade is way too much for Kemp.

You can also subtract at least one, probably two from the Grienke trade. Leake and Mesaraco would be able to get it done. Catching prospects like Mesaraco are worth a lot, and adding in a first round pitcher with a year in the bigs already is more than enough. Maybe a throw in lower level player. Yet I don't think this team is looking to unload Mesaraco. Hernandez is old and injury prone (plus only has an option year left), and Hanigan is no spring chicken.

On top of all that, as stated, you are adding a ton of salary this team cannot afford.

lidspinner
10-17-2010, 12:43 AM
IF KC wont bite on ChrisH,Jordan Smith, Valakia and Yonder for ZAckG then I dont do the trade....Yonder has shown flashes of being very good with the bat....Jordan is a staple to any bullpen in baseball...might not be the front runner, but he would do good for any pen, Chris and Chris look to both be starters in this league....CH looks like he could stay awhile.....that is alot to give up for Zack, who by all means is leaving KC soon as he gets a chance.

fewfirstchoice
10-17-2010, 12:53 AM
IF KC wont bite on ChrisH,Jordan Smith, Valakia and Yonder for ZAckG then I dont do the trade....Yonder has shown flashes of being very good with the bat....Jordan is a staple to any bullpen in baseball...might not be the front runner, but he would do good for any pen, Chris and Chris look to both be starters in this league....CH looks like he could stay awhile.....that is alot to give up for Zack, who by all means is leaving KC soon as he gets a chance.

KC would want a young starting pitcher in return for Grenike. So if you dont add one they will not bite,
Kemp is under team control for 2 more years not 1 more. Till after the 2012 season.

757690
10-17-2010, 02:35 AM
I like the targets, just think the deals are giving up too much.

Kemp is on the trading block because of bad work habits, and a perceived lack of desire to play. He is also coming off his worst year ever, both offensively and defensively. He is damaged goods. The Dodgers are not happy with Loney, so Alonso might be desired, but they really need a strong starting pitcher, and a good one will be all that it takes to get Kemp. They will want one of Cueto/Volquez/Bailey. The trick for the Reds is figuring out which one will be the best to trade. It's a toss up right now, imo.

As for Greinke, he too is coming off his worst year ever, plus he will make $27M the next two seasons. If the Royals trade him, they will want cheap, young talent, as they are a few years away from contending. Probably more guys in A and AA than major league ready guys. They definitely would be interested in Alonso, as they need bats. They will find a place for him if he is hitting. A Greinke deal would probably look more like this...

Yonder Alonso, Juan Duran, Phillippe Valiquette, Juan Carlos Sulbaran and Neftali Soto.

lidspinner
10-17-2010, 07:57 AM
I like the targets, just think the deals are giving up too much.

Kemp is on the trading block because of bad work habits, and a perceived lack of desire to play. He is also coming off his worst year ever, both offensively and defensively. He is damaged goods. The Dodgers are not happy with Loney, so Alonso might be desired, but they really need a strong starting pitcher, and a good one will be all that it takes to get Kemp. They will want one of Cueto/Volquez/Bailey. The trick for the Reds is figuring out which one will be the best to trade. It's a toss up right now, imo.

As for Greinke, he too is coming off his worst year ever, plus he will make $27M the next two seasons. If the Royals trade him, they will want cheap, young talent, as they are a few years away from contending. Probably more guys in A and AA than major league ready guys. They definitely would be interested in Alonso, as they need bats. They will find a place for him if he is hitting. A Greinke deal would probably look more like this...

Yonder Alonso, Juan Duran, Phillippe Valiquette, Juan Carlos Sulbaran and Neftali Soto.


not saying your wrong.....and not saying I am right...but I just dont see us giving that much up for anyone not named Doc Halladay.

Go look up previous trades for top notch pitching and see what was given up...maybe it is on par with what you posted, but I think the trade I was saying is overpaying by a ton.....you just dont see teams giving up more than a few prospects for anyone nowadays, let alone 5 prospects.....who knows? But I do know that I want ZG on this staff.

Zack G
Bronson
Cueto
Volquez
Leake/Wood/Chapman......these guys are gonna have to split time if we want them in the playoffs...got to watch those innings

so if we trade Leake or Wood.....that leaves us with Bailey as more trade bait or that much needed 6th starter when pitchers need rest or injuries occur...Sam L and Matt M gives us a few more options.....

so LEake or Wood should be able to gain us a good LF bat to go along with already getting our Ace for the staff. Let Janish take over SS and our team just got better by at least 15 games and should make us a staple for the playoffs these next 3 years.

Stray
10-17-2010, 07:41 PM
Is Kemp really that much better than Gomes? Enough to justify paying him that much more? To me he's not, and not even close.

I'm all for upgrading LF, but I don't think Kemp is the answer. I'd like to see what it would take to get Greinke, but I wouldn't give up the farm for him or anything and that is what it would likely take.

We have a really good young core, and some potential aces on our staff. We're going to be better next year, and you never know, guys always become available at the trade deadline and I'd like to see us be more active then assuming we're in the race.

Vottomatic
10-17-2010, 10:13 PM
Reds trade Heisey, Cueto, Phillips, Cordero, Neftali Soto, and Brad Boxberger to Seattle for Chone Figgins and Felix Hernandez.

Cordero and Phillips have 1 year left on their contracts for a total of $23M approximately. Seattle takes on their contracts to allow the Reds to financially take on Figgins and Hernandez's contracts, and on top of it Seattle gets a starting OFer, #2 quality young proven starter in Cueto, and 2 quality minor leaguers. Seattle was unhappy with Figgins this year, so they get rid of their so-called problem. The Reds get rid of Cueto and won't have to deal with the problems it causes when playing the Cardinals. Masset/Chapman/Ondrusek close as a tandem.

That is my blockbuster deal of the century. :D

RedLakerFan24
10-18-2010, 03:18 AM
Jason Bartlett and Matt Kemp

brm7675
10-18-2010, 12:03 PM
First they need to trade for Matt Kemp to plug in Lf and hit #4 in the order. Id say this may work.

Yonder Alonso, J. Cueto, and J. Smith to the Dodgers

an Reds get Kemp and a prospect

Then they need to pry Greinke from the Royals.

Say send Leake, Merasco, Heisey, and Valaika to the Royals

the Reds get Greinke

Then the lineup looks like this.
SP
Grenike
Arroyo
Wood
Bailey
Chapman

BP
Cordero
Masset
Volquez
Bray
Rhodes
Ondrusek


Starters
C- Hannigan/Hernadez split time again
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Janish
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF-Bruce

Batting order
1) Stubbs
2) Bruce
3) Votto
4) Kemp
5) Rolen
6) Phillips
7) Hannigan/Hernandez
8) Janish

Thats a solid club right there.

Ah.....NO

Hey Meat
10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
First they need to trade for Matt Kemp to plug in Lf and hit #4 in the order. Id say this may work.

Yonder Alonso, J. Cueto, and J. Smith to the Dodgers

an Reds get Kemp and a prospect

Then they need to pry Greinke from the Royals.

Say send Leake, Merasco, Heisey, and Valaika to the Royals

the Reds get Greinke

Then the lineup looks like this.
SP
Grenike
Arroyo
Wood
Bailey
Chapman

BP
Cordero
Masset
Volquez
Bray
Rhodes
Ondrusek


Starters
C- Hannigan/Hernadez split time again
1B- Votto
2B- Phillips
3B- Rolen
SS- Janish
LF- Kemp
CF- Stubbs
RF-Bruce

Batting order
1) Stubbs
2) Bruce
3) Votto
4) Kemp
5) Rolen
6) Phillips
7) Hannigan/Hernandez
8) Janish

Thats a solid club right there.

No Way. Kemp has excess baggage. He didn't exactly get along well with his skipper this year. Also would not part with both Heisey and Leake. Add a pitcher and Lf through free agency if you can.

CrosleyField
10-18-2010, 04:13 PM
The Reds need a true top of the line starter. They have several good pitchers but not a true #1 starter. They are going to have to pay, one way or the other, to have one though.

mat12
10-19-2010, 06:07 PM
Im not saying I wouldn't trade top prospects for him, but in these deals you're trading guys who are already producing well at the major league level, along with several top prospects.
Wedding Favours (http://www.weddingcufflinkcompany.co.uk/)

brm7675
10-20-2010, 02:37 PM
The Reds need a true top of the line starter. They have several good pitchers but not a true #1 starter. They are going to have to pay, one way or the other, to have one though.

How do you know this?

Helms1
10-20-2010, 04:18 PM
I say 1 deal, get a top pitcher and you can lose Cordero and Phillips in the process. Keep everybody else and give the young guys a chance to take the available spots. I like Phillips BTW, except he is moving towards diminishing production.

bounty37h
10-20-2010, 04:20 PM
How do you know this?

What are you asking him, how does he know what?

GOBCU33
10-20-2010, 04:24 PM
I say 1 deal, get a top pitcher and you can lose Cordero and Phillips in the process. Keep everybody else and give the young guys a chance to take the available spots. I like Phillips BTW, except he is moving towards diminishing production.

how so? The guy just made the all-star team for the first time in his career and had it not been for his injury, probably would have finished over or around .300 BA

Helms1
10-20-2010, 04:42 PM
how so? The guy just made the all-star team for the first time in his career and had it not been for his injury, probably would have finished over or around .300 BA

Money. I'd lose Harang, of course, 10 million for Votto, free up 24 million with Cordero and Phillips and use the dough to buy a Lee type, or him if possible or trade for as good as you can get with the budget using Phillips and throw Cordero in as a bonus, and do not lose the young players unless they get you exactly what you want. Sounds crazy I know, but go for it all now, heck the Rangers and Giants are on the verge of the WS, our division is down, and I remember 76, 76 and 90 with much more fondness than say, 95 or 2010 (although after a decade of suffering the regular season was magical this year).

Stray
10-20-2010, 07:10 PM
Getting rid of Cordero and his contract sounds like a great deal and all, but who would be the potential buyers? It's no secret he's as shaky as it gets at the end of the game. I can't imagine there would be teams lined up to take him and his contract off our hands.

Phillips will be a Red, I'm almost certain of this. He's in his prime years, and coming off an excellent season. Even for us, he's well worth what he makes.

1990REDS
10-20-2010, 09:04 PM
Getting rid of Cordero and his contract sounds like a great deal and all, but who would be the potential buyers? It's no secret he's as shaky as it gets at the end of the game. I can't imagine there would be teams lined up to take him and his contract off our hands.

Phillips will be a Red, I'm almost certain of this. He's in his prime years, and coming off an excellent season. Even for us, he's well worth what he makes.

+1


Everyone in the league knows that Coco can be unreliable at times, getting up thier in age, and is EXTREMELY overpaid. Like it or not, I think were stuck with him for 1 more year.

Cincinnati 8
10-21-2010, 06:53 PM
Why not have Alonso learn how to play LF and save our bullets to get an Ace pitcher or a shortstop

1990REDS
10-21-2010, 07:46 PM
Why not have Alonso learn how to play LF and save our bullets to get an Ace pitcher or a shortstop

That moves make sense but i would think that if the upper brass was confident enough in his left field ability he would already be thier.

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 03:56 AM
I think we're looking at Heisey in LF next season.

But I do think they pick up Gomes cheap option.

Girevik
10-22-2010, 10:29 AM
Why not have Alonso learn how to play LF and save our bullets to get an Ace pitcher or a shortstop

I've heard most scouts think that Alonso barely moves well enough to play 1B, let alone OF.