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View Full Version : If the Reds could fill only one need in the offseason, which would you choose?



Vottomatic
10-20-2010, 09:49 PM
See the poll.

Hustleman
10-21-2010, 03:25 PM
1. ace
2. leadoff hitter
3. quality ba/power in probable form of LF

New York Red
10-21-2010, 03:33 PM
We need all three of those areas, but I think it's possible we already have our future leadoff hitter (Stubbs), and I think our pitching staff is going to fall into place. We may not have a Roy Halladay type, or a Cliff Lee, but 29 other teams don't either. And I can't see the Reds' management going out and purchasing one, or trading for one.

So that leaves the LF spot, preferrably a combination of good defense and a strong bat to give Joey some much needed protection in the lineup. This gets my vote.

Vottomatic
10-21-2010, 04:51 PM
What I found interesting is that all 20 votes went toward the first 3 choices. Nobody picked "other" which means that these 3 items ARE the Reds primary needs in the eyes of the fans. Well, atleast the 20 that have voted. :D

gedred69
10-21-2010, 05:35 PM
I voted lead-off. As another post outlined, getting a #1 Ace is far beyond the Reds reach, and there is enough quality pitching in the system to honestly expect 3-4 of them to be 15 game winners, which I see as infinitely better than one ace and 3 so-so. The bat to guard Votto should come from within. The Bruce we hoped for might well have emerged the last month+ of the season. And if Mesoraco is for real, then there you go. Not to mention, Frazier, Sappelt, Grandal, etc.

malcontent
10-21-2010, 05:40 PM
If Stubbs is gonna be the CF (safe to assume), then the LF needs to be a LH hitter.

1990REDS
10-21-2010, 05:46 PM
What I found interesting is that all 20 votes went toward the first 3 choices. Nobody picked "other" which means that these 3 items ARE the Reds primary needs in the eyes of the fans. Well, atleast the 20 that have voted. :D

Ya that seems about right. This season we had a backup player playing full time in left. A limited range SS who hit way to high in the order, and our NLDS game 1 starter was a year removed from tommy john and had made his return about 3 months before the playoffs. And we still made the playoffs.

scott91575
10-22-2010, 06:30 AM
If Stubbs is gonna be the CF (safe to assume), then the LF needs to be a LH hitter.

Please explain this rationale.

Girevik
10-22-2010, 09:37 AM
If Stubbs is gonna be the CF (safe to assume), then the LF needs to be a LH hitter.

I would say the exact opposite. If Stubbs is your leadoff guy, then I'm looking for a RH power bat for the middle of the order. I'm not as focused as having a balanced lineup as most, but if I had to choose I wouldn't want my 3 middle of the lineup guys all left handed.

Maybe in a year or two you can find a 3B to fit that bill, but not right now.

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 09:46 AM
I keep wondering if the Reds pull off some kind of trade with the Mets to take on Beltran. It would have to involve $$$ to help us pay his contract, and we'd have to send one (or two) of our higher paid players in return.

Mets are disgruntled with Beltran. He's coming back from injury, and will be in the last year of his contract, making approximately $20M. He's a switch hitter who turns 34 in April. He will be in a contract year (headed to free agency) which usually, but not always, encourages a player to produce better. Has played sparingly the last 2 seasons, but played 161 games in 2008 putting up 27 HR's, 112 RBI, 25 SB, 92 Walks, 40 Doubles, .284 batting average, .376 OBP, .500 SLG, and scoring 116 runs. If he could come anywhere near that, he'd be the guy we'd wanting batting behind Joey.

If you could convince the Mets to do a salary swap of players each team is disgruntled with, namely Cordero ($12M) and send them Alonso ($1M) too, and exchange some cash from them to even it out...........they've already suspended K-Rod and need a closer anyway. Cordero is in the last year of his contract too. Plus, they get a future first baseman in the deal.

Girevik
10-22-2010, 09:55 AM
I don't want to trade Alonso just to dump Cordero. Cordero will be gone in a year anyway, I want to move Alonso for someone with more of a long term upside.

Plus I don't think K-Rod will stay suspended. I can't see them taking on another closer until he's moved.

1990REDS
10-22-2010, 10:46 AM
I think the Mets are pretty happy with Ike Davis as their young first baseman. I don't see them having any interest in Alonzo.

brm7675
10-22-2010, 12:25 PM
I am shocked at the high number of people who selected pitching? Really? Wasn't the end of the season and playoffs a clear enough example that what this team is lacking is a complimentary bat to Votto/Bruce and a reliable LF over pitching? I mean really?

bounty37h
10-22-2010, 12:25 PM
Please explain this rationale.

I dont know, but am thnking he meant to say needs ot be a leadoff hitter, not a LH hitter?

Alpha Zero
10-22-2010, 12:26 PM
We need all three of those areas, but I think it's possible we already have our future leadoff hitter (Stubbs), and I think our pitching staff is going to fall into place. We may not have a Roy Halladay type, or a Cliff Lee, but 29 other teams don't either. And I can't see the Reds' management going out and purchasing one, or trading for one.

So that leaves the LF spot, preferrably a combination of good defense and a strong bat to give Joey some much needed protection in the lineup. This gets my vote.

I think that Stubbs might be able to OBP about .340 on a regular basis if he reaches his full potential, but I don't think he'll ever be the OBP monster that you want at the top of the order. I actually like Stubbs hitting 2nd better than at lead off. His K's don't hurt too badly there, and his power is a bit more useful with someone hitting in front of him. His speed is still quite useful, and his ability to avoid DPs in front of Votto is definitely a good thing.

brm7675
10-22-2010, 12:26 PM
We need all three of those areas, but I think it's possible we already have our future leadoff hitter (Stubbs), and I think our pitching staff is going to fall into place. We may not have a Roy Halladay type, or a Cliff Lee, but 29 other teams don't either. And I can't see the Reds' management going out and purchasing one, or trading for one.

So that leaves the LF spot, preferrably a combination of good defense and a strong bat to give Joey some much needed protection in the lineup. This gets my vote.

no we don't. We have great overall pitching, and our starters are extremely talented and young. Why can't Wood, Leake, Cueto or Volquez be an ACE?

TeamSelig
10-22-2010, 01:39 PM
I voted quality LFer to bat behind Votto. I want either...

a) right handed hitter, .280/350/500... essentially what Rolen did for us, but in left field... solid glove
b) A lefty who just kills RHP... examples: Shin-Soo Choo (998 ops vs rhp; 670 vs lhp), Crawford (930 vs rhp; 696 vs lhp), Vernon Wells (991 vs rhp; 643 vs lhp)... then we can use Gomes to start vs most LHP (856 ops vs lhp; 709 ops vs rhp)... also with a solid glove

smixsell
10-22-2010, 02:00 PM
LF, no doubt. Would love to get Werth, but any professional hitter with a average or better glove would do.

Choo would be nice too. (Would also help the club by selling lots of Reds gear in Korea)

smixsell
10-22-2010, 02:06 PM
no we don't. We have great overall pitching, and our starters are extremely talented and young. Why can't Wood, Leake, Cueto or Volquez be an ACE?


I think at least 2 of our current crop WILL BE ACES. :) Volquez, Cueto, Laeke, Wood, Bailey, and Chapman all have potential to be Cy Young contenders someday. I would say that the odds are outstanding that at least 1 will be a bona fide ACE within the next 2 years and 2 will be bona fide ACES within 4 years. You heard it right here.

PS I'm predicting Leake will be a Maddux- like pitcher within a few years.:beerme:

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 02:11 PM
I think at least 2 of our current crop WILL BE ACES. :) Volquez, Cueto, Laeke, Wood, Bailey, and Chapman all have potential to be Cy Young contenders someday. I would say that the odds are outstanding that at least 1 will be a bona fide ACE within the next 2 years and 2 will be bona fide ACES within 4 years. You heard it right here.

PS I'm predicting Leake will be a Maddux- like pitcher within a few years.:beerme:

So, if we trade for Felix Hernandez, we'll have 4 aces on the staff according to you! :D :beerme: :thumbup:

Hernandez
Volquez
Wood/Cueto/Bailey or Chapman
Leake (the next Greg Maddux)

We might have 5 aces at some point. That would be cool with me. :eek:

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 02:13 PM
I don't want to trade Alonso just to dump Cordero. Cordero will be gone in a year anyway, I want to move Alonso for someone with more of a long term upside.

Plus I don't think K-Rod will stay suspended. I can't see them taking on another closer until he's moved.

Okay, so trade some other good prospect or young major leaguer. Maybe Heisey. You have to give something to entice that trade.

K-Rod is not being paid while suspended from my understanding.

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 02:19 PM
We need all three of those areas, but I think it's possible we already have our future leadoff hitter (Stubbs), and I think our pitching staff is going to fall into place. We may not have a Roy Halladay type, or a Cliff Lee, but 29 other teams don't either. And I can't see the Reds' management going out and purchasing one, or trading for one.

So that leaves the LF spot, preferrably a combination of good defense and a strong bat to give Joey some much needed protection in the lineup. This gets my vote.

My problem with Stubbs is that he strikes out way too much. He also isn't very aggressive at the plate. It's good to have discipline, but rarely do pitchers walk the first batter of the game unless they just can't find the plate and are all messed up. Gotta be a good contact hitter to leadoff.

I do feel that our pitching could be in the process of being something awesome.

I think the 1-4 batting order needs to be addressed. Votto is a given at #3. But we need quality ahead of him and behind him. I think we can do better than what we got. If we were able to pull off some kind of trade for Beltran in LF and then sign Carl Crawford for CF (which will never happen, and Stubbs would have to sit), you'd have a lineup like this:

CF Crawford
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Beltran
RF Bruce
3B Rolen
SS Janish
C Hanigan

If Beltran could regain his form, and Rolen would only play about 100 games, Crawford would give them somebody to knock in consistently.

Girevik
10-22-2010, 03:03 PM
K-Rod is not being paid while suspended from my understanding.

But isn't there a maximum length of time they can suspend him? Some think that the Mets could get out of his contract because of the latest incident, but you know the union would file a grevience and there's no telling how that would come out.


....and then sign Carl Crawford for CF

I'm as big a proponent as anyone of signing Crawford, but realisically there is no way the Reds will get that done. Some big market club is going to throw stupid money at him that the Reds just won't be able to match (especially if they want to have any hope of keping Bruce, Votto, and the core of the pitching staff as they come arbitration eligible).

Natty Redlocks
10-22-2010, 04:30 PM
I went leadoff hitter. The way I see it, Dusty-proofing the lineup is Job One. Getting guys on in front of Votto is crucial, and this lineup is filled with guys who could potentially be Taveras-like holes in front of him but stick there all season long because they fit the speedy mold. We don't have a manager who will put guys like Hanigan or Rolen at the top of the order, but give him a guy like Chone Figgins and he'll bat leadoff every day, leaving a guy like Stubbs down in the order where he belongs. That's actually who I want: Figgins. He can play left most days, and cover third on the many days Rolen will need off, meaning Gomes will only play on days Rolen doesn't. Perfect.

Then someone just has to convince him that if the Phillies can bat Utley and Howard back-to-back, maybe just maybe it's okay if Votto and Bruce do it, too.

Vottomatic
10-22-2010, 05:00 PM
Honestly, if they pick up Arroyo's option, have Wood, Leake, Bailey, Cueto and Volquez returning in the starting rotation too, Chapman, Cordero, Masset, Ondrusek, and re-sign Rhodes for the bullpen............and then could get a quality leadoff hitter and a quality bat behind Votto, I think this team finishes better next year than it did this year.

I'd love to get an ace, but the more I think about it, a couple more hitters specializing in leadoff and quality behind Votto would do more damage.

Helms1
10-22-2010, 05:38 PM
Honestly, if they pick up Arroyo's option, have Wood, Leake, Bailey, Cueto and Volquez returning in the starting rotation too, Chapman, Cordero, Masset, Ondrusek, and re-sign Rhodes for the bullpen............and then could get a quality leadoff hitter and a quality bat behind Votto, I think this team finishes better next year than it did this year.

I'd love to get an ace, but the more I think about it, a couple more hitters specializing in leadoff and quality behind Votto would do more damage.

I vote for you GM unless an ace falls into our laps with Cordero going in the deal some way, somehow, oh please, oh please.

mu4103
10-22-2010, 08:46 PM
No doubt the Red's need an ACE. They were one of the best hitting teams in baseball this year even with Johnny Gomes (few left fielders would be a downgrade). The Red's will never be able to compete with teams like the Phillies in the playoffs with their rotation. How can the Reds match up against Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels in a playoff series? I would take any of those guys over any Reds pitcher on any given day. The Reds need pitching bad. Having Votto and Bruce will go a long way to solidifying the offense and the Reds can fill in the rest of the pieces and see if any of their prospects pan out. If the Red's want to be competitive in October, they need a or some pitchers!

mu4103
10-22-2010, 08:51 PM
Having said that ... Mike Leake has a big upside and Bailey may come around (who knows) ... Chapman is solid too... but you never know with any young pitcher (ex. Strasburg), but I think the Reds will be lucky to find to solid starting pitchers out of the hole bunch (Volquez/Wood/Cueto/Bailey/Chapman/Leake) and at this point no potential aces.

malcontent
10-23-2010, 05:23 PM
Please explain this rationale.

6 RH hitters, and only 2 LH hitters.

The lineup needs more LH bats, and unless Phillips is moved (unlikely), or Francisco displaces Rolen (extremely unlikely), LF is where the action is.

757690
10-23-2010, 06:46 PM
I went leadoff hitter. The way I see it, Dusty-proofing the lineup is Job One.

Completely agree.

If the Reds don't get a real leadoff hitter, Dusty will by trying anyone and everyone in that spot. I feel confident that a real power hitter will emerge next year either from Bruce or Stubbs or both. But the Reds just don't have a leadoff hitter anywhere near the majors.

Vottomatic
10-23-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm as big a proponent as anyone of signing Crawford, but realisically there is no way the Reds will get that done. Some big market club is going to throw stupid money at him that the Reds just won't be able to match (especially if they want to have any hope of keping Bruce, Votto, and the core of the pitching staff as they come arbitration eligible).

You conveniently left out what I said in brackets after my "signing Carl Crawford" post.........(which will never happen).

I know that it's slim to none we sign Crawford. But he epitomizes what this team needs at the top of the lineup.

MikeThierry
11-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Looking at the trend the past couple of years, teams are needing actually probably 2 aces to compete in the playoffs. If you look at the teams who advanced far within the playoffs this year and last year, they were stacked with top tier pitching. The Rangers had arguably the best lineup in the game but the Giants pitching completely shut them down.

Kingspoint
11-13-2010, 01:17 AM
1. A different Manager.